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[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by russ

In Archery, not nearly as big as you think.

regards to the 'big world' comments....thats right russ....it really isn't that big when you get into it you find out how small it is....kinda like sheep hunting, kind of a small easy to get to know a bunch of the players type thingy.....but luckily for bowhunting its about to get bigger? hope so...

[gman1978]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

One can only hope gman...one can only hope.

Do you know the decision makers?

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Cross bow hunting is going to be the Way of the Future in Alberta,so best get use to it being Around.Dont Fight the inevitable!!!

Whitetail junkie do rabbits really go crashing into trees?

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by gman1978

I like facts but there is no use getting in a war to see who can dig up the next usless fact. I don't don't believe in a special crossbow season or muzzloader season because I am against the commercialization of hunting in Alberta, the Wildtv syndrome. I don't think for one minute that all bowhunters are elitists that put themselves above other hunters. Thats a pretty weak stance, or that all bowhunters think crossbow hunters are drunken slobs (that one cracks me up). I just think at the end of the day non-bowhunters want a piece of the september sky. I think some people on both sides have agendas. I don't like it and I am afraid if this goes through what's next?

gman, i dont understand what you mean by commercialization or the wildtv syndrome. ive heard it used a couple times in these talks but i dont think im getting what you are saying. can you explain please?

[bakerman]

We don't need a special muzzle loader season. I'ts a rifle. You can already use it anytime you can legally hunt with a rifle. If you love it that much take it out and use it. (ie Jim Shockey). I'm all for extra seasons and opportunties to hunt, but when I choose to sit in my treestand with my bow in nov. and have rifle guys drive out in the field the last 15 min of daylight and scare off the deer I've been watching for the last hour it ****es me off, but it's my choice to use a bow,it doesn't happen every time,and I don't scream and yell for a special bow rut season only. I'm just happy to be out there hunting, yea it's not always perfect but I do it because I love it and anything that could jeopardize that such as xbows in bow only season must be stopped. If you want to bowhunt buy a bow. If you can't pull a bow get a permit for a xbow and go for it 100%. Some day when I'm too old to pull a bow I'll be out there with ya, as for now lets keep a good thing going.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by bakerman

We don't need a special muzzle loader season. I'ts a rifle. You can already use it anytime you can legally hunt with a rifle. If you love it that much take it out and use it. (ie Jim Shockey). I'm all for extra seasons and opportunties to hunt, but when I choose to sit in my treestand with my bow in nov. and have rifle guys drive out in the field the last 15 min of daylight and scare off the deer I've been watching for the last hour it ****es me off, but it's my choice to use a bow,it doesn't happen every time,and I don't scream and yell for a special bow rut season only. I'm just happy to be out there hunting, yea it's not always perfect but I do it because I love it and anything that could jeopardize that such as xbows in bow only season must be stopped. If you want to bowhunt buy a bow. If you can't pull a bow get a permit for a xbow and go for it 100%. Some day when I'm too old to pull a bow I'll be out there with ya, as for now lets keep a good thing going.

welcome back whoever you were before your ban/suspension.

[russ]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

welcome back whoever you were before your ban/suspension.

Look at his join date

[traditional]

This is part of the text for the inclusion of crossbows in archery season.

"Significant changes that would be considerd include: putting moose and mule deer hunting under the authority of Special Licenses in many WMUs and reducing rifle (general) allocations where required."

How many rifle only hunters are going to be happy with this? I am surprised that no one seems to care about this lost opportunity for the majority of hunters.

[traditional]

Originally Posted by Brady

Pottymouth, if you are going to quote posters on this board, leave the quote as that. If you are going to put your own text into those quotes, as if the OP had said it originally, there will be a time-out coming your way.

I assume you are talking about post http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...&postcount=526 if not I apologize in advance and if I am not correct pleae explain what you mean so I do not amke the same mistake.

As a moderator I fully understand that you have a rather tough job but I would hope that in the interests of fairness and general forum correctness you are going to publicly chastise the other posters who use this style as well as in post http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...&postcount=339

[ishootbambi]

i think although there has been way too much personal snipping in this whole thread, the statements you have quoted are really not in the same category. if we cant discuss the issues like adults it is time to shut this one down.

edit.....and welcome back to you whoever you are hiding behind this name.

[Wilky]

Originally Posted by traditional

I assume you are talking about post http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...&postcount=526 if not I apologize in advance and if I am not correct pleae explain what you mean so I do not amke the same mistake.

As a moderator I fully understand that you have a rather tough job but I would hope that in the interests of fairness and general forum correctness you are going to publicly chastise the other posters who use this style as well as in post http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...&postcount=339

You've got to be kidding!!

Originally Posted by traditional

This is part of the text for the inclusion of crossbows in archery season.

"Significant changes that would be considerd include: putting moose and mule deer hunting under the authority of Special Licenses in many WMUs and reducing rifle (general) allocations where required."

How many rifle only hunters are going to be happy with this? I am surprised that no one seems to care about this lost opportunity for the majority of hunters.

Perhaps not all see it as a loss of anything but a gain for the hunting community in general? Just a thought anyhow.

Originally Posted by Wilky

You've got to be kidding!!

Hard to stay out of a little moderating bashing isn't it Tonto?

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Perhaps not all see it as a loss of anything but a gain for the hunting community in general? Just a thought anyhow.

Perhaps the majority of Alberta hunters dont have a clue that these changes are possibly on the way? Is it possible that if they did know, they might oppose it? Maybe the vast majority of hunters in Alberta have no desire to use anything but a rifle? Now that were heading this direction, who would make up the vast majority numbers?? Might it be rural folk that arent into new fad's/technology, new equipment, new techniques/methods?? Are most out there to harvest some game, and do not remember that hunting season even happened, until next years season and new general tags come around?? Thats right, GENERAL TAGS. Many dont even put in for draws... If we want to talk about what Albertas hunters want, lets talk about that, not what is good for the few.

[Brady]

Originally Posted by traditional

I assume you are talking about post http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...&postcount=526 if not I apologize in advance and if I am not correct pleae explain what you mean so I do not amke the same mistake.

As a moderator I fully understand that you have a rather tough job but I would hope that in the interests of fairness and general forum correctness you are going to publicly chastise the other posters who use this style as well as in post http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showp...&postcount=339

Traditional, thank-you so much for pointing out the error of my ways.
Now hear ye, if you all can't play nice in the sandbox, we will be forced to close the sandbox down, which would possibly yank out a few soapboxes from under some feet.
I hope this reaches all the sandthrowers in this thread.

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Perhaps the majority of Alberta hunters dont have a clue that these changes are possibly on the way? Is it possible that if they did know, they might oppose it? Maybe the vast majority of hunters in Alberta have no desire to use anything but a rifle? Now that were heading this direction, who would make up the vast majority numbers?? Might it be rural folk that arent into new fad's/technology, new equipment, new techniques/methods?? Are most out there to harvest some game, and do not remember that hunting season even happened, until next years season and new general tags come around?? Thats right, GENERAL TAGS. Many dont even put in for draws... If we want to talk about what Albertas hunters want, lets talk about that, not what is good for the few.

The 19,000+ member strong AFGA supports the crossbow inclusion. That seems like a fairly large voice to me.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

The 19,000+ member strong AFGA supports the crossbow inclusion. That seems like a fairly large voice to me.

I dont want to look like Im a full 100% tard, so I will say, That last post of mine looks pretty stupid to someone that sees how clueless the words are with regards to conservation. Once again, dont want to be misunderstood, was just trying to make a small point. I agree, the AFGA is an awesome outfit, they do have a large voice. They have historically represented small voices like mine for a long time. I dont disaprove progress, but Im stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one.

[Knownonscents]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

The 19,000+ member strong AFGA supports the crossbow inclusion. That seems like a fairly large voice to me.

Then I guess I shouldn't be a member.

Originally Posted by packhuntr

I dont want to look like Im a full 100% tard, so I will say, That last post of mine looks pretty stupid to someone that sees how clueless the words are with regards to conservation. Once again, dont want to be misunderstood, was just trying to make a small point. I agree, the AFGA is an awesome outfit, they do have a large voice. They have historically represented small voices like mine for a long time. I dont disaprove progress, but Im stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one.

Not trying to downplay your opinion pack and for the most part we likely share the same view on crossbow inclusion in archery season. I'm just trying to look at the big picture......even though I may disapprove.

Originally Posted by Knownonscents

Then I guess I shouldn't be a member.

I guess that's for you to decide. With large organizations like this, they can never represent the views of each individual member on every issue. They have a democratic process to establish their position on issues based on the wishes of the majority......many organizations don't. I guess it's no different than the ABA. I know members there that support crossbow inclusion but are still willing to support the ABA because of all the good work they do in the big picture. As in all democratic organizations, the majority sets the policy. You can stomp your feet and go home or you can work within the organization to make your voice heard. Either way, you are never going to get your way every time. I guess you need to look at the overall direction of the organization and see if it deserves your support.

[shedcrazy]

The 19,000+ member strong AFGA supports the crossbow inclusion. That seems like a fairly large voice to me.

I disagree, only the majority of voters that paid the steep price to go to the convention (AGM) support it. It seems there are many issues that are supported by AFGA but seem pretty split on this forum and in hunting circles I attend. Crossbow, ML seasons, CWD culls, sheep draws, etc....

To use the full membership number then each member should be sent a ballot (a true democratic process doesn't charge to vote). I will speak for myself and state that I never received anything on resolutions, ballots, etc. Out of the 19,000+ how many voted at the AGM?

Originally Posted by shedcrazy

I disagree, only the majority of voters that paid the steep price to go to the convention (AGM) support it. It seems there are many issues that are supported by AFGA but seem pretty split on this forum and in hunting circles I attend. Crossbow, ML seasons, CWD culls, sheep draws, etc....

To use the full membership number then each member should be sent a ballot (a true democratic process doesn't charge to vote). I will speak for myself and state that I never received anything on resolutions, ballots, etc. Out of the 19,000+ how many voted at the AGM?

Actually, only voting delegates sent by a club are eligible to vote. Pretty much the same way your MP or MLA represents his constituants. You know, the democratic process. I guess you should have had more input into your local club....

I would say all 19,000 voted through the representatives sent by local clubs......perhaps the majority in your local club disagreed with you or perhaps your local club voted against it but through democratic process, AFGA supports it. You did have an opportunity to vote for your local representative...right? You remember this stuff from grade 6 social studies....right

AFGA is one of the few truely democratic groups representing hunters and anglers. That's what confuses most people. Representation by population is a bit of foreign concept in the west for sure.

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Perhaps not all see it as a loss of anything but a gain for the hunting community in general? Just a thought anyhow.

Hey TJ you mind explaining how a loss of a two month season for all hunters and one of the only seasons for those under 18 without an older hunting companion to partake in could be beneficial? And when you have explained that then please explain how limiting rifle hunters by forcing draw only can be seen as a good thing if you got the time.I appreciated your thoughts in your last article in AO by the way thanks gander

Originally Posted by ganderblaster

Hey TJ you mind explaining how a loss of a two month season for all hunters and one of the only seasons for those under 18 to partake in could be beneficial? And when you have explained that then please explain how limiting rifle hunters by forcing draw only can be seen as a good thing if you got the time.I appreciated your thoughts in your last article in AO by the way thanks gander

Read what I've posted countless times already. Plus, 12 year olds can hunt all seasons now.

[shedcrazy]

Actually, only voting delegates sent by a club are eligible to vote. Pretty much the same way your MP or MLA represents his constituants. You know, the democratic process. I guess you should have had more input into your local club....

I would say all 19,000 voted through the representatives sent by local clubs......perhaps the majority in your local club disagreed with you or perhaps your local club voted against it but through democratic process, AFGA supports it. You did have an opportunity to vote for your local representative...right? You remember this stuff from grade 6 social studies....right

AFGA is one of the few truely democratic groups representing hunters and anglers. That's what confuses most people. Representation by population is a bit of foreign concept in the west for sure.

Sorry this is pretty funny... But one must protect one's employer.

AFGA is one of the biggest old boys clubs I know....reminds me of something else

Just telling you how the club I belong to and every other club I know of works....but you are right, the president of my club is an old boy. I think his mom is two years older than me...

Does anything make you happy shed?

[Single Malt]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Just telling you how the club I belong to and every other club I know of works....but you are right, the president of my club is an old boy. I think his mom is two years older than me...

Does anything make you happy shed?

I have a bit of an off thread but on the current debate question:

I am a direct member of the AFGA. I had emailed before the convention on how I could be represented or if I was able to attend as a delegate but I received no response... Does anyone have ideas on how this works? (I know- I should just try calling again but was hoping for some quick info. for next year)

Thanks

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Read what I've posted countless times already. Plus, 12 year olds can hunt all seasons now.

I personally have never heard of a 12 year old without a handicap that could not draw a legal bow at age 12 but enlighten me if I'm missing something

[wctbowtech]

Originally Posted by Rob Miskosky

Explain please.

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm not sure you could find a 1,000 grain crossbow arrow but even if you could, you be lucky to launch it much over 200fps, if that. You lose about 17-20 fps per 50 grains of arrow weight and it gets worse the heavier it gets. I doubt there's a drop compensating scope that would be effective much past 50 yards with that set up, if that far. A compound bow with a 300-400 grain arrow going +300fps would be far more efficient. The short arrows of a crossbow make them horribly inefficient as does the short draw length of the crossbow.

Originally Posted by wctbowtech

I don't believe croosbows should be included in the archery season.

Reason #1 If a crossbow hunter shoots a very heavy bolt (greater than 1000 grains) and uses a drop compensating scope the crossbow becomes way more efficient and therefore should be excluded from the archery only season.

Sorry to take so long for a response, been gone all weekend. There are alot of ways of getting a heavier bolt. ie using a longer one (30"), using 300+ grain broadheads, using weight tubes in the bolt. In most cases a person would only have to check out a traditional archey supplier for heavier broadheads etc. In response to the effiency, any crossbow becomes more effective when shooting a longer and heavier bolt. At what point is archery no longer archery. I believe the line we are about to cross with crossbows is that line. Crossbows are not archery equipment. They use similar equipment ie bolt / arrows , broadheads. The same can be said of crossbows and guns also. They have triggers / stock. They have similarities of both, but the differences are there in both regards. Crossbows don't belong in archery only seasons.

Originally Posted by wctbowtech

Sorry to take so long for a response, been gone all weekend. There are alot of ways of getting a heavier bolt. ie using a longer one (30"), using 300+ grain broadheads, using weight tubes in the bolt. In most cases a person would only have to check out a traditional archey supplier for heavier broadheads etc. In response to the effiency, any crossbow becomes more effective when shooting a longer and heavier bolt.

In theory possibly but the resulting loss in arrow speed is so great that the trajectory becomes so arced that aiming is impratical. Also, crossbows do not shoot longer arrows well because of how they rest. They has been tried many times with less than acceptable accuracy. The same can be said for very heavy broadheads. Crossbows and compound bows are basically performance clones.

At what point is archery no longer archery. I believe the line we are about to cross with crossbows is that line. Crossbows are not archery equipment. They use similar equipment ie bolt / arrows , broadheads. The same can be said of crossbows and guns also. They have triggers / stock. They have similarities of both, but the differences are there in both regards. Crossbows don't belong in archery only seasons.

In this regard, you may very well be right...