Alberta Grazing Lease Issues.....

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by mattthegorby

All I gotta say is that I look forward to hearing the podcast. It would be great if you were able to interview a couple of lease holders for their perspective.

I think this is one of those issues where the majority of folks are pretty decent on both sides. Who can blame a lease holder for restricting access after having their hard work and significant investment trashed by punters and who can blame the respectful hunter for expecting to responsibly access public lands.

Unfortunately, on forums it seems most issues gets polarized into us and them.

For the record... one of the reasons I really like the Highlander Hunting podcast is that it is really humble and respectful, not full of product placements and industry experts.

Hey thanks for the compliment Matt.
It's pretty fun to make.

John, Rawhide Podcaster

[bitterrootfly]

Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING

I need to point out that every time you reply to this post you bump it up to the top of the page which helps promote it.

The term Cowboy Welfare has been used by:
The Edmonton Journal, Calgary Herald, Red Deer Advocate, and CBC. It's not like this is the first time it's ever been used or we made it up to stir up trouble and promote our podcast.


John, Highlander Hunting- Rawhide of Podcasts.

And this gentlemen is how you properly handle negativity, good job, I live your podcasts by the way!

[NCC]

Originally Posted by cowboy1949

Would I pay for fencing, seed, ferilizer ---etc no and neither would anyone I know. Fences all ready there in my case , same for grass seed bla bla bla. Upkeep and repair absolutely I pay.

You answered your own question. That’s why grazing leases are $3/AUM and private pasture is $30/AUM.

[Sogseal]

Clearly there are issues with the current system for (almost) everyone utilizing the land; lease holder and general public alike. Great idea for a podcast to discuss, educate and perhaps brainstorm ideas for overall improvement.

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING

Last time i checked...our podcasts were free to listen to.....

No advertising then? Just curious. Doing it solely as a hobby?

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by NCC

You answered your own question. That’s why grazing leases are $3/AUM and private pasture is $30/AUM.

You are over simplifying that a bit.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

You are over simplifying that a bit.

How so?

[338Bluff]

Never mind I read back through the thread to his original comment. All good.

[BorealBucks]

Originally Posted by Northern Bob

I moved from Alberta to Manitoba in October. The leased land access here is much simpler and the way it should be everywhere.
Word for word from the Manitoba Hunting Regulations:

"Leased Crown Land
Most leased crown land is open to hunting. However, there may be limited areas of leased crown lands which are intensively used, such as livestock corrals, feeding areas, and building sites, where hunting is prohibited. These areas will be identified by approved signs provided by Manitoba Agriculture. Permission is not required to hunt on leased provincial Crown land, which is not posted in this manner. It is recommended that hunters notify leaseholders before entry. Please do not damage trails, drive across fields, or leave gates open."

Late season grazing is mentioned in one other part of the regulations. It just says that hunters should be aware that some grazing leases may have livestock on them during hunting season. It doesn't change the free access.

Is it publicly owned land after all. Leaseholders are only renting access for their cattle to graze. If you don't like those terms, don't lease it.

Many lease holders would lose their minds if this is how it was in AB. This is exactly how it should be. Its leased crown land.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

No advertising then? Just curious. Doing it solely as a hobby?

No advertising, and no sponsors- just doing it for fun right now. As long as we keep having fun, we’ll keep at it!

[Yaha Tinda]

Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING

Hey everyone,
On an upcoming podcast, John and I are going to be diving into a topic that many Alberta hunters find frustrating.... our access system for Grazing leases, and the issues around it. We’ve heard it called “cowboy welfare” before, due to all the perks these lease owners get that much of the public isn’t aware of. If anyone has any information or personal experience, we’d love to hear about it. If there are any links that state what the lease owners are entitled to, we’d also like to get as many facts as possible.

Worst case I observed was a half section lease that I could find no evidence of grazing,ever. There were several oil leases and pipelines, lease roads were mowed better and more frequently than my lawn. Leaseholder constructed a nice tower stand for hunting complete with bait pile, game cam et al. His wife was rather vocal about me hunting the lease,quoting the 200 yard rule, on a quarter section of land. They live right beside the lease. If ever there was a case of Cowboy Welfare, this is it.

[Joe Black]

but remember, there are those that will proclaim that it is only demanding hunters that abuse the system

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Yaha Tinda

Worst case I observed was a half section lease that I could find no evidence of grazing,ever. There were several oil leases and pipelines, lease roads were mowed better and more frequently than my lawn. Leaseholder constructed a nice tower stand for hunting complete with bait pile, game cam et al. His wife was rather vocal about me hunting the lease,quoting the 200 yard rule, on a quarter section of land. They live right beside the lease. If ever there was a case of Cowboy Welfare, this is it.

Did you report it? There’s no sense complaining, if a law is broken make the call.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by Yaha Tinda

Worst case I observed was a half section lease that I could find no evidence of grazing,ever. There were several oil leases and pipelines, lease roads were mowed better and more frequently than my lawn. Leaseholder constructed a nice tower stand for hunting complete with bait pile, game cam et al. His wife was rather vocal about me hunting the lease,quoting the 200 yard rule, on a quarter section of land. They live right beside the lease. If ever there was a case of Cowboy Welfare, this is it.

Sounds like a case of illegal hunting and breached lease holder conditions to me. A cowboy would have had cows out there, not a stand and a pile of bait.

What did the officials say when you called in to report it?

[walking buffalo]

A natural introduction to the topic would be to cover some of the recent history of grazing leases and hunting and why we have the current legislation.



A very brief review of this fight where grazing lease holders sued to have the authority to eliminate hunting from these crown lands.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Unste...d.-a0160030180


Wayne Patton deserves a monument as the savior of Alberta hunting on Public land grazing leases.
Without his efforts, crown grazing lease holders today would be able to deny all hunting on these Public Lands.

[Yaha Tinda]

Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING

Hey everyone,
On an upcoming podcast, John and I are going to be diving into a topic that many Alberta hunters find frustrating.... our access system for Grazing leases, and the issues around it. We’ve heard it called “cowboy welfare” before, due to all the perks these lease owners get that much of the public isn’t aware of. If anyone has any information or personal experience, we’d love to hear about it. If there are any links that state what the lease owners are entitled to, we’d also like to get as many facts as possible.

Then there is this leaseee, who not only doesn't graze the lease but walked a dozer through the lease creating some improvement. His ten foot swath meanders through a variety of wetlands,spawning beds and raparian areas.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

A natural introduction to the topic would be to cover some of the recent history of grazing leases and hunting and why we have the current legislation.



A very brief review of this fight where grazing lease holders sued to have the authority to eliminate hunting from these crown lands.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Unste...d.-a0160030180


Wayne Patton deserves a monument as the savior of Alberta hunting on Public land grazing leases.
Without his efforts, crown grazing lease holders today would be able to deny all hunting on these Public Lands.

Thank you for sending the link to that article- we'll read that one as well.
Mike

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by Yaha Tinda

Then there is this leaseee, who not only doesn't graze the lease but walked a dozer through the lease creating some improvement. His ten foot swath meanders through a variety of wetlands,spawning beds and raparian areas.

sounds like the improvements the poor leasee's get saddled with by taking the lease(having to clear shooting lanes and access points to retrieve game easier)

[landowner]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

sounds like the improvements the poor leasee's get saddled with by taking the lease(having to clear shooting lanes and access points to retrieve game easier)

Or ... could it be the start of a new cross fence ?

[Joe Black]

nope.

definitely shooting lane.

[NCC]

Again, nothing to do with "cowboy welfare".

Instead of wanking about it on here, turn the guy in. Unauthorized clearing is a big no no. Bait piles under tree stands - I'm pretty sure a few pics would illicit a response from F and W if Public Lands isn't interested. That would be more productive than insulting farmers and ranchers.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by NCC

Again, nothing to do with "cowboy welfare".

Instead of wanking about it on here, turn the guy in. Unauthorized clearing is a big no no. Bait piles under tree stands - I'm pretty sure a few pics would illicit a response from F and W if Public Lands isn't interested. That would be more productive than insulting farmers and ranchers.

I think these threads bashing and insulting farmers and ranchers are great. Locking up more and more land to the "out of towners" with every post. Win Win

[Cow tooth]

The more of this I read the happier all my grazing land is deeded


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Deer Hunter]

It's important to know the legal consequences of entering crown leased land without permission.

Trespass on Leased Grazing Land
DATE: May 20, 2008

SUBJECT: GUIDELINE GOVERNING THE PROSECUTION OF THOSE WHO ENTER UPON LEASED GRAZING LAND

BACKGROUND:

Crown prosecutors are sometimes required to consider whether to commence or continue a prosecution of an individual who is alleged to have entered Crown land that has been subject to an agricultural disposition pursuant to the Public Lands Act, RSA 2000, c. P-40 (e.g., a lease by the Crown for the purpose of allowing the lessee to graze livestock).The following principles govern the consideration and conduct of any such prosecution.

GUIDELINE:

There is authority for the proposition that, at common law, a lessee of Crown land may prohibit access to the leased land and may hold a trespasser civilly liable in tort.
Pursuant to ss. 1, 2, 2.1 and 3 of the Petty Trespass Act, RSA 2000, c. P-11, those who enter Crown land that is subject to a disposition pursuant to the Public Lands Act may be prosecuted for trespass under that Act.
However, pursuant to s. 1.1 of the Petty Trespass Act those who enter such lands for a recreational purpose, as detailed in the Recreational Access Regulation, AR 228/2004, are exempt from prosecution for trespass under the Act.
As such, any prosecution arising from a recreational user’s entry upon such lands may only be conducted pursuant to the Criminal Code of Canada. While the charging section(s) would depend upon the conduct alleged, the following sections are most commonly applicable.
Section 430(1)(c)

Section 430(1)(c) is engaged if it is alleged that the purported recreation user wilfully obstructed, interrupted or interfered with the lessee’s lawful use, enjoyment or operation of the Crown-leased land. As such, to support a prosecution under this subsection, there would have to be sufficient evidence that the person interfered with the lessee’s purpose in using the land (i.e., grazing livestock).

Sections 266, 267 or 268

Pursuant to s. 41(1), a lessee is entitled to use as much force as is necessary to evict a trespasser from the land. By virtue of s. 41(2), a trespasser who resists being removed may be prosecuted for assault or related conduct. Such resistance would not include passive resistance, but would include resistance by violence (e.g., by striking back).

https://justice.alberta.ca/programs_...zing_land.aspx

[hillbillyreefer]

I often wonder how many people think that all grassland, native or tame, is lease. I had a guy inform me he would be accessing some of my grassland, when I informed him he wasn’t he stated “it’s grass so it’s lease”.

I hunt lots of lease, never had an issue with access, lots even in the presence of livestock.

The unsubstantiated rhetoric in this thread is awesome. Undocumented accusations thrown around will surely endear you to landholders.

[Deer Hunter]

This thread is about the largest single landowner in Alberta. The crown

[ruffy71]

I come from a farming background but nowhere near grazing leases. Everything is private so you own it, or rent it from the owner. Pasture, hay crops, seed crops. Whatever. Nobody leases from the government.

Boy I am clueless when it comes to grazing leases. I had no idea that leasing could allow the lease holders to disc, bulldoze, burn and seed. I will offend all the people that lease these lands, but I thought all you could do was send cattle into a fenced area for a time to graze the natural grass and then move them out. That is how it should be as far as I'm concerned.

Is it common for people to have long enough leases they feel comfortable building corrals, sinking tens or hundreds thousands of dollars into these leases? If that is the case, you are acting like you own it. I would never sink that kind of money into land I don't own. I can't believe we would even allow that kind of investment into leased crown land. This system is not what I thought, not what I ever would have wanted. No wonder there is constant conflict between the leaser's and the public. It was stupid of the gov't to allow it in the first place.

[Yaha Tinda]

The most frequent lie lease holders toss out there is that family is using it. Almost word for word from different lease holders. A call to public lands has resolved this block in all instances that I was required to contact them.

Quite dismayed when the family using it turned out to be camping on the lease next to the river. Decent camp complete with fire pit, out house and ample parking. Oh and a nice level well graded gravel road that lead to the camp. When do I get to camp there I wonder....lol

[Joe Black]

Not sure of the specifics of illegal activities or lease land infractions mentioned above, but consider if the ones witnessing this are local/neighbors of the ones breaking the law/lease rules

In rural communitites you do not want to start a Hatfield/McCoy dispute. You call the lease manager, he knows who squealed. You call fish cops, you may have to testify in court.

Then you and/or your family is subject to retaliation.

Is it worth it? Hill no.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Yaha Tinda

Then there is this leaseee, who not only doesn't graze the lease but walked a dozer through the lease creating some improvement. His ten foot swath meanders through a variety of wetlands,spawning beds and raparian areas.

How do you know he didn’t have permission from the crown to make those improvements?