FLAMES 2021-22. Our time has not come

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by YYC338

Yup, He's been called the worst player in the league by participants in the Soiler thread, yet he has more goals than all but three of their forwards.

Not sure if that speaks to Edmonton's talent level or fan knowledge, hmmmm

Hey moose! Speaks volumes of Looch's on again/off again work ethic. Apparently you only need to put in the effort when you feel like it....$6 million/yr or not. Good riddance.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Hey moose! Speaks volumes of Looch's on again/off again work ethic. Apparently you only need to put in the effort when you feel like it....$6 million/yr or not. Good riddance.

Hey Mountain Insecure, it's YYC338. Sooner or later you'll figure it out I bet.

Perhaps it speaks volumes of a coaching staff's ability to bring out the best in a player, or maybe the positive environment that player is in, or being put into situations where that player can succeed? All those things were lacking up in Soilerville while he was there. It was humorous to see all the chatter on how Edmonton stole James "the laziest NHL'er" Neal in the deal. How did he work out up there? Again Looch has more goals so far this than all but 3 Solier forwards. Any of those lagging behind make $6 million or more?

Anyways, love to see you guys post on this thread. Here we don't whine about other teams fans putting in there two cents worth (sometimes it's almost worth that too, based on the crap they post).

By the way, how does it feel to post on the teams thread that's leading the Pacific Division?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by YYC338

Yup, He's been called the worst player in the league by participants in the Soiler thread, yet he has more goals than all but three of their forwards.

Not sure if that speaks to Edmonton's talent level or fan knowledge, hmmmm

I would say… Calgary won this trade hands down. Neal is making millions to stay home and Golf.

Under solid coaching… Lucic is feared on the ice.

James Neal Buyout Details
This player does not currently have an active contract; however, the buyout details of their previously bought-out contract would be as follows
Cost Calculations
BUYOUT DATE BASE SALARY REMAINING S.BONUS REMAINING YEARS REMAINING BUYOUT LENGTH AGE BUYOUT RATIO TOTAL COST TOTAL SAVINGS ANNUAL COST
Jun. 15, 2022 $5,750,000 $0 1 2 34 2/3 $3,833,333 $1,916,667 $1,916,667
Cap Hit Calculations
SEASON INITIAL BASE SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT SIGNING BONUS BUYOUT COST POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS SAVINGS CAP HIT (St. Louis BluesSTL)
2022-23 $5,750,000 $5,750,000 $0 $1,916,667 $1,916,667 $3,833,333 $1,916,667
2023-24 $0 $0 $0 $1,916,667 $1,916,667 -$1,916,667 $1,916,667
TOTAL $5,750,000 $5,750,000 $0 $3,833,333 $3,833,333 $1,916,667 $3,833,334



Lucic. 7 goals and 2 assists so far this season.

[Talking moose]

Looch just couldn’t make a difference surrounded by Edmonton’s unbridled skill and speed. It was a bit much.
He’s shining now though….. a top player.
Kinda like if you were to drop a less than mediocre midget down to bantam league. He’s gonna shine!!!!!
I kid I kid…..
Even if looch wasn’t contributing on the score sheets, his presence alone out there contributes to players coughing up pucks, and thinking twice. Pretty hard to move from the front of the net too….

[brendan's dad]

Regardless of where Neal is right now, and by the way he is not sitting at home or playing golf, he is doing quite well St. Louis, the Flames are still paying 5.25 million for this year and next year for a 4th liner.

Neal is costing the Oilers 2.65 not have him on the roster right now. The Oilers are ok with that and almost every team has some dead cap space, Flames has Brower, Oilers have Neal.

The Flames GM can't consider how much Neal costs the Oiler's, that has nothing to do with him building a team.

The real problem Pizza Boy is going to have is that Lucic's salary will still be on the books while trying to re-sign Thachuk, Johnny, and Mangi. And in addition to that, either re-signing or replacing Pitlick, Richardson, and Lewis.

The Neal/Lucic trade was all about 1 bad contract for another bad contract. Because of Calgary's cap issue and the need to re-sign so many player, I am not sure that Lucic was the better option overall for the Flames.

Let's put it this way, if Mangi or Johnny need to walk or be traded because of the Lucic's contract, or Monahan is traded for draft picks to dump salary, do you still think the Flames won the trade?

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Hey moose! Speaks volumes of Looch's on again/off again work ethic. Apparently you only need to put in the effort when you feel like it....$6 million/yr or not. Good riddance.

Also says a lot of the the teams playing styles. Imagine Lucic on the Oilers PP?!
He’s definitely a few steps behind. He’s watched a lot of pucks go past him into the Calgary net as well. I think Sutter has done an exceptional job of finding a style of hockey in 2021 where Lucic can be useful in his older years.

[Pixel Shooter]

The deal worked for both teams. In actuality Calgary saved a ton of dough because Lucic was front end loaded and large signing bonuses early in contract, hence buy out proof. Secondly deal worked for Oilers to save some serious cap hit, just cost them $$$. Neal never panned out, Lucic in a smaller role is paying off dividends, although expensive 4th liner but he is contributing and leads by example. He is a fan favourite craze enough, next year last year is only $3.25m, its the cap hit that sucks lol.

Exchange cost Edmonton owner Daryl Katz $51 million ($28 mil to Lucic, $23 mil to Neal) to pay out an original commitment of $42 million. By the time such niceties as escrow are figured we can probably round it down to $50 million or a bit less; nonetheless a substantial cash hit to the Oilers owner, and a financial windfall for the Flames, who would only need to pay Lucic $14 million in actual salary for 4 years vs. the $23 million they owed Neal.

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Regardless of where Neal is right now, and by the way he is not sitting at home or playing golf, he is doing quite well St. Louis, the Flames are still paying 5.25 million for this year and next year for a 4th liner.

Neal is costing the Oilers 2.65 not have him on the roster right now. The Oilers are ok with that and almost every team has some dead cap space, Flames has Brower, Oilers have Neal.

The Flames GM can't consider how much Neal costs the Oiler's, that has nothing to do with him building a team.

The real problem Pizza Boy is going to have is that Lucic's salary will still be on the books while trying to re-sign Thachuk, Johnny, and Mangi. And in addition to that, either re-signing or replacing Pitlick, Richardson, and Lewis.

The Neal/Lucic trade was all about 1 bad contract for another bad contract. Because of Calgary's cap issue and the need to re-sign so many player, I am not sure that Lucic was the better option overall for the Flames.

Let's put it this way, if Mangi or Johnny need to walk or be traded because of the Lucic's contract, or Monahan is traded for draft picks to dump salary, do you still think the Flames won the trade?

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Pixel Shooter

The deal worked for both teams. In actuality Calgary saved a ton of dough because Lucic was front end loaded and large signing bonuses early in contract, hence buy out proof. Secondly deal worked for Oilers to save some serious cap hit, just cost them $$$. Neal never panned out, Lucic in a smaller role is paying off dividends, although expensive 4th liner but he is contributing and leads by example. He is a fan favourite craze enough, next year last year is only $3.25m, its the cap hit that sucks lol.

Exchange cost Edmonton owner Daryl Katz $51 million ($28 mil to Lucic, $23 mil to Neal) to pay out an original commitment of $42 million. By the time such niceties as escrow are figured we can probably round it down to $50 million or a bit less; nonetheless a substantial cash hit to the Oilers owner, and a financial windfall for the Flames, who would only need to pay Lucic $14 million in actual salary for 4 years vs. the $23 million they owed Neal.

There is no arguing actual dollar numbers, they are what they are.

But actual costs to 90 % of the owners in the league is irrelevant. (some small markets care) If you asked almost all owner if they could go over the cap would they do it, almost everyone of them would to win a cup.

So it is cap dollars that rule and that is it. I bet you Katz would even pay hefty penalties on top of the dead cap money if it actually didn't count against the overall cap space.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Regardless of where Neal is right now, and by the way he is not sitting at home or playing golf, he is doing quite well St. Louis, the Flames are still paying 5.25 million for this year and next year for a 4th liner.

Lets not exaggerate stuff to try to make our point. Doing "quite well"..... McDavid has the same number of points in one game that Neal does all season, right on pace with Kris Russell, perspective aside, I'd hardly call that doing "quite well". Regarding his salary, yes, it's alot for a 4th liner. However, comparing them to the next closest team in the division, he has 7x as many goals as their 4th line combined and 4.5x as many points.

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Neal is costing the Oilers 2.65 not have him on the roster right now. The Oilers are ok with that and almost every team has some dead cap space, Flames has Brower, Oilers have Neal.

Well, the Oilers are paying Lucic, Neal, and Sekera a combined $12.2M over the next four years to not play for them. Payment to Brouwer is complete, but the $1.5M still counts against the cap for this year. Next year, nothing.

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

The real problem Pizza Boy is going to have is that Lucic's salary will still be on the books while trying to re-sign Thachuk, Johnny, and Mangi. And in addition to that, either re-signing or replacing Pitlick, Richardson, and Lewis.

I agree, it's going to be a problem, even if Lucic wasn't around though.

-Matthew is getting $9M;
-Johnny is by far the best forward UFA available and is on pace for 94 pts, I can easily see a team offering him $9-$10M;
-Monahan: $6,375,000
-Backlund: $5,350,000
-Lucic: $5,250,000
-Coleman: $4,900,000
-Lindholm: $4,850,000
-Mangiapane: What's he going to get, on pace for 68 goals and 58 pts, $6M, $7M?
-Dube: $2,300,000

Puts us at $53M, about $4M over what we're currently at, with 4 players to sign. Kylington is also going to get a massive raise, maybe $4 to $5M.

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

The Neal/Lucic trade was all about 1 bad contract for another bad contract. Because of Calgary's cap issue and the need to re-sign so many player, I am not sure that Lucic was the better option overall for the Flames.

Maybe not, but player to player, Lucic is better than Neal, we got the draft pick, are paying less real dollars, and over the course of the cap hits, Calgary's is only $1.3M more.

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

...or Monahan is traded for draft picks to dump salary, do you still think the Flames won the trade?

Absolutely I do!!!

You think Johnny is sticking around if Brad offers him a fair salary?

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Regardless of where Neal is right now, and by the way he is not sitting at home or playing golf, he is doing quite well St. Louis, the Flames are still paying 5.25 million for this year and next year for a 4th liner.

Neal is costing the Oilers 2.65 not have him on the roster right now. The Oilers are ok with that and almost every team has some dead cap space, Flames has Brower, Oilers have Neal.

The Flames GM can't consider how much Neal costs the Oiler's, that has nothing to do with him building a team.

The real problem Pizza Boy is going to have is that Lucic's salary will still be on the books while trying to re-sign Thachuk, Johnny, and Mangi. And in addition to that, either re-signing or replacing Pitlick, Richardson, and Lewis.

The Neal/Lucic trade was all about 1 bad contract for another bad contract. Because of Calgary's cap issue and the need to re-sign so many player, I am not sure that Lucic was the better option overall for the Flames.

Let's put it this way, if Mangi or Johnny need to walk or be traded because of the Lucic's contract, or Monahan is traded for draft picks to dump salary, do you still think the Flames won the trade?

Of course if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

If your position relies on hypothetical situations that may or may not transpire you know you're skating on thin ice.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

If you asked almost all owner if they could go over the cap would they do it, almost everyone of them would to win a cup.

Yet, when they vote, they won't raise the salary cap. Or are you saying, 31 teams have the existing cap and the one team can spend to $100M?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Regardless of where Neal is right now, and by the way he is not sitting at home or playing golf, he is doing quite well St. Louis, the Flames are still paying 5.25 million for this year and next year for a 4th liner.

Neal is costing the Oilers 2.65 not have him on the roster right now. The Oilers are ok with that and almost every team has some dead cap space, Flames has Brower, Oilers have Neal.

The Flames GM can't consider how much Neal costs the Oiler's, that has nothing to do with him building a team.

The real problem Pizza Boy is going to have is that Lucic's salary will still be on the books while trying to re-sign Thachuk, Johnny, and Mangi. And in addition to that, either re-signing or replacing Pitlick, Richardson, and Lewis.

The Neal/Lucic trade was all about 1 bad contract for another bad contract. Because of Calgary's cap issue and the need to re-sign so many player, I am not sure that Lucic was the better option overall for the Flames.

Let's put it this way, if Mangi or Johnny need to walk or be traded because of the Lucic's contract, or Monahan is traded for draft picks to dump salary, do you still think the Flames won the trade?

I thought I read Neal has been a healthy scratch a number of games. He has 2 goals and 2 assists.

When he was here he was a horrible a skater. Either not trying or lost his step.

Still he is a millionaire. I am not.

But Lucic is the better player this season. Which is good for the Flames. Neal isn’t playing in Edmonton which is good for the Oilers.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Regardless of where Neal is right now, and by the way he is not sitting at home or playing golf, he is doing quite well St. Louis, the Flames are still paying 5.25 million for this year and next year for a 4th liner.

Neal is costing the Oilers 2.65 not have him on the roster right now. The Oilers are ok with that and almost every team has some dead cap space, Flames has Brower, Oilers have Neal.

The Flames GM can't consider how much Neal costs the Oiler's, that has nothing to do with him building a team.

The real problem Pizza Boy is going to have is that Lucic's salary will still be on the books while trying to re-sign Thachuk, Johnny, and Mangi. And in addition to that, either re-signing or replacing Pitlick, Richardson, and Lewis.

The Neal/Lucic trade was all about 1 bad contract for another bad contract. Because of Calgary's cap issue and the need to re-sign so many player, I am not sure that Lucic was the better option overall for the Flames.

Let's put it this way, if Mangi or Johnny need to walk or be traded because of the Lucic's contract, or Monahan is traded for draft picks to dump salary, do you still think the Flames won the trade?

Several ways you can look at this trade, but it worked out better for the Flames then it did for the Oilers. I am sure we would be much happier if Luc only made a couple million, but Neal was a waste on our team, as well as the Oilers or they wouldn't have bought him out. Lucic is at least contributing and playing well. Sutter has even been using the 4th line with Luc as a shutdown line at times.

You also need to remember when comparing the trade, the Flames also got a 3rd round pick, which they turned into Vladar. It is a little early to tell yet, but he is looking like an incredible pick up so far for the Flames.

Vladar stats started 5 games 4-0-1 with 2 shutouts 1.57 goals against .946 save%

Skinner stats started 5 games 2-3-0 0 shutouts 2.85 goals against .928 save%

another way of looking at it is Enforcer vs Enforcer (Luc vs Kasian)
Oilers pay Kassian 3.2 mil+ retained Salary for Luc + buyout salary for Neal total $5,866,667
Flames pay Luc 5.25 mil and you will have 2 more years on the books for Neal at 1.9Mil after Luc contract is over

Both players have contributed 9 points to their respective teams.

In reality until 1 of the teams hoists the cup, it doesn't really matter who won the trade.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Yet, when they vote, they won't raise the salary cap. Or are you saying, 31 teams have the existing cap and the one team can spend to $100M?

What I am saying that if it cost 10 or 15 or even 20 million dollars to get rid of a bad contract like Neal's or Lucic's, and that money didn't count towards the cap space, then teams would jump at the opportunity.

Cap dollars rule everything, unless of course you are Tampa and Jesus visit the dressing room just before playoffs.

And I wouldn't rule out that the Flames will be adding some dead cap space next with a Lucic buy out.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

And I wouldn't rule out that the Flames will be adding some dead cap space next with a Lucic buy out.

Can't really see it happening. Unless I'm looking at it wrong, think it would only save them about $500k next year. The funny thing is, due to the retained salary with Edmonton, it would actually cost Edmonton more. Unfortunately, not very much more...

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Roderek

Several ways you can look at this trade, but it worked out better for the Flames then it did for the Oilers. I am sure we would be much happier if Luc only made a couple million, but Neal was a waste on our team, as well as the Oilers or they wouldn't have bought him out. Lucic is at least contributing and playing well. Sutter has even been using the 4th line with Luc as a shutdown line at times.

You also need to remember when comparing the trade, the Flames also got a 3rd round pick, which they turned into Vladar. It is a little early to tell yet, but he is looking like an incredible pick up so far for the Flames.

Vladar stats started 5 games 4-0-1 with 2 shutouts 1.57 goals against .946 save%

Skinner stats started 5 games 2-3-0 0 shutouts 2.85 goals against .928 save%

another way of looking at it is Enforcer vs Enforcer (Luc vs Kasian)
Oilers pay Kassian 3.2 mil+ retained Salary for Luc + buyout salary for Neal total $5,866,667
Flames pay Luc 5.25 mil and you will have 2 more years on the books for Neal at 1.9Mil after Luc contract is over

Both players have contributed 9 points to their respective teams.

In reality until 1 of the teams hoists the cup, it doesn't really matter who won the trade.

What I love is the bickering over Oilers versus Flames when both teams in Alberta are doing great!

GO ALBERTA GO!!!!

Think about it. Isn’t it far better to be arguing who is best… Flames or Oilers.

Who wants to be the quiet guys on the forum wishing they could be arguing the same for Ottawa sad Montreal.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

What I love is the bickering over Oilers versus Flames when both teams in Alberta are doing great!

GO ALBERTA GO!!!!

Think about it. Isn’t it far better to be arguing who is best… Flames or Oilers.

Who wants to be the quiet guys on the forum wishing they could be arguing the same for Ottawa sad Montreal.

We hockey men don’t bicker. We banter.
There’s a huge thread for bickering…..
Love to banter with the flames fans all season. But when my oil don’t make or get punted from the playoffs early, flames are my next choice…..
Now that I live in bc I guess I’ll eventually have to slip the nucks in there somewhere…. (Most likely below both flames and oil)

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Now that I live in bc I guess I’ll eventually have to slip the nucks in there somewhere….

Mods!!

[Pixel Shooter]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Mods!!

U won’t have to worry about slipping the nuckleheads in. There toast

[Twisted Canuck]

Well, that was a pretty evenly matched game, but Flames got it done in the shoot out. That's a win! Good game.

[Sundancefisher]

Entertaining game.

Shootout goals were skilled. Vladar… good game. Shoot out goaltending skill. Grade A tonight!

[Trochu]

A little concerned about the quantity of high quality saves our goalies have made the last few games. However, they are still putting up points, tied for first in the league, so what do I know. Nice to have a bit more separation.

[Jamie]

I believe we are playing above our heads.. But it sure is fun to watch. MT is playing like himself of old. Johnny is looking incredible and LUCIC!!!!! Lucic is a king. Where did we get him from again?

The Goalies are playing in a different universe compared to years past.

Zero idea of this is sustainable or if this is lightening in a bottle but loving my tickets this year!

Speaking of wich. I am gone out of the country between Jan 4 and Feb 28. All those games are up for grabs at my season ticket holder cost. a few other games as well including 4 seats for Anaheim just before Christmas.

[YYC338]

Definitely firing on all cylinders. True test will be how well they weather the storm when a few misfires pop up.

[Tungsten,]

Even Jonny looks good….. yeah time to trade maybe will get something for him now.

[Talking moose]

Well… gave up on the oilets. <not a spelling mistake.
Let’s go boys

[Talking moose]

Pffff….. guess I’ll go be an Oiler fan again. Atleast we lose better.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Pffff….. guess I’ll go be an Oiler fan again. Atleast we lose better.

Bigger is better.

[Roderek]

This is from Mark Spector in Edmonton after comments from Dave Tippet after last nights loss to the Kings. At least the "professionals" Know who the better team is!

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...mittal-effort/

And if they don’t, then perhaps flip the channel over to a Calgary Flames game and watch how Daryl Sutter’s team plays.

If you think you’re going to win a series against Calgary with the “pretty boys” approach the Oilers have adopted of late, you are sadly mistaken.

The Flames team we’re watching will eat this Oilers' effort for lunch, spit them out in five games, and move on to the next victim.

[Trochu]

Doesn't look as cool, and requires more work, but Anderson stops on his breakaway instead of the big loop to the corner and he scores. That dmen both taking the same guy annoyed me too.