Gunsmith shot by police Ontario - Page 10

glen moa · #**271** 12-02-2021, 04:39 PM

But why didn’t the cop in the firehall return fire. Why didn’t he think he was being fired upon by the murder and stop him. That’s the real question.

elkhunter11 · #**272** 12-02-2021, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glen moa

But why didn’t the cop in the firehall return fire. Why didn’t he think he was being fired upon by the murder and stop him. That’s the real question.

Because that officer wasn't stupid enough to assume that everyone wearing a police uniform was the gunman. With so many real police around, the odds were that they were policemen. He was actually under fire by two people trying to kill him, so if he fired back it would have been in self defense, but he apparently had too much respect for his fellow officers, to try and kill them. Either that, or he was so scared , that he couldn't move.

And oddly enough, no other officers opened fire on other officers, just because they were wearing other RCMP uniforms. So was it really rational for the officers to open fire just because they saw someone wearing an RCMP uniform?

58thecat · #**273** 12-02-2021, 06:27 PM

No because he was getting his butt behind cover and on the radio to call it in.
Then they all realize friendly fire was happening.
Total chaos was happening not generalized to one area so yup poop happens.
But hey we all know how we would play this out.

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Phil McCracken · #**274** 12-02-2021, 08:01 PM

Been biting my tongue for awhile on this one...

Were there mistakes made? Absolutely.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks ( whom most don't have a frigging clue about what this profession is all about) are quick to judge...pretty sad...

So to all of you Brady's, unless you were actually there to witness or act on this very difficult situation, facing the stress that was absolutely involved by all these officers, trying to do the best they could with the confusing and minimal information that was available in real time...well...not gonna say it as I will get banned...

So many uninformed people (except for a few) around this site...pathetic at times...

Sure most of you smart internet educated guys/gals would do better under the same chaotic circumstances...

Just saying...

RandyBoBandy · #**275** 12-02-2021, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

Been biting my tongue for awhile on this one...

Were there mistakes made? Absolutely.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks ( whom most don't have a frigging clue about what this profession is all about) are quick to judge...pretty sad...

So to all of you Brady's, unless you were actually there to witness or act on this very difficult situation, facing the stress that was absolutely involved by all these officers, trying to do the best they could with the confusing and minimal information that was available in real time...well...not gonna say it as I will get banned...

So many uninformed people (except for a few) around this site...pathetic at times...

Sure most of you smart internet educated guys/gals would do better under the same chaotic circumstances...

Just saying...

roper1 · #**276** 12-02-2021, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

Been biting my tongue for awhile on this one...

Were there mistakes made? Absolutely.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks ( whom most don't have a frigging clue about what this profession is all about) are quick to judge...pretty sad...

So to all of you Brady's, unless you were actually there to witness or act on this very difficult situation, facing the stress that was absolutely involved by all these officers, trying to do the best they could with the confusing and minimal information that was available in real time...well...not gonna say it as I will get banned...

So many uninformed people (except for a few) around this site...pathetic at times...

Sure most of you smart internet educated guys/gals would do better under the same chaotic circumstances...

Just saying...

Minimal info? Chaotic? Confusing? How could that be ? Noon hour, broad daylight. Who kept the cops in this situation ?

elkhunter11 · #**277** 12-02-2021, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

Been biting my tongue for awhile on this one...

Were there mistakes made? Absolutely.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks ( whom most don't have a frigging clue about what this profession is all about) are quick to judge...pretty sad...

So to all of you Brady's, unless you were actually there to witness or act on this very difficult situation, facing the stress that was absolutely involved by all these officers, trying to do the best they could with the confusing and minimal information that was available in real time...well...not gonna say it as I will get banned...

So many uninformed people (except for a few) around this site...pathetic at times...

Sure most of you smart internet educated guys/gals would do better under the same chaotic circumstances...

Just saying...

So how do you justify two RCMP officers opening fire on a fellow RCMP officer? What possible explanation can you offer, other than the officer was wearing an RCMP uniform and a reflective vest?

Twisted Canuck · #**278** 12-02-2021, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

Been biting my tongue for awhile on this one...

Were there mistakes made? Absolutely.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks ( whom most don't have a frigging clue about what this profession is all about) are quick to judge...pretty sad...

So to all of you Brady's, unless you were actually there to witness or act on this very difficult situation, facing the stress that was absolutely involved by all these officers, trying to do the best they could with the confusing and minimal information that was available in real time...well...not gonna say it as I will get banned...

So many uninformed people (except for a few) around this site...pathetic at times...

Sure most of you smart internet educated guys/gals would do better under the same chaotic circumstances...

Just saying...

Good one Phil. Because we expect our supposedly highly trained police officers to not shoot at each other, in a stressful situation in broad daylight, we think we could do better. Because we expect there to be accountability in what was a protracted godawful goat rodeo, we are Monday morning quarterbacks. Good deflection. Brilliant.

Probably the whole thing could have gone better if they weren't communicating over Twitter as well.

Just saying.

HunterDave · #**279** 12-02-2021, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

Been biting my tongue for awhile on this one...

Were there mistakes made? Absolutely.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks ( whom most don't have a frigging clue about what this profession is all about) are quick to judge...pretty sad...

So to all of you Brady's, unless you were actually there to witness or act on this very difficult situation, facing the stress that was absolutely involved by all these officers, trying to do the best they could with the confusing and minimal information that was available in real time...well...not gonna say it as I will get banned...

So many uninformed people (except for a few) around this site...pathetic at times...

Sure most of you smart internet educated guys/gals would do better under the same chaotic circumstances...

Just saying...

HunterDave · #**280** 12-02-2021, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Good one Phil. Because we expect our supposedly highly trained police officers to not shoot at each other, in a stressful situation in broad daylight, we think we could do better. Because we expect there to be accountability in what was a protracted godawful goat rodeo, we are Monday morning quarterbacks. Good deflection. Brilliant.

Probably the whole thing could have gone better if they weren't communicating over Twitter as well.

Just saying.

Mulehahn · #**281** 12-03-2021, 12:05 AM

Many on here are right. I am not a cop. Never pointed a gun at anyone (have had them pointed at me twice but that a different topic). That doesn't mean I can't ask questions. This was a raid, meaning there was several officers present. Why did only one feel the need to fire. In the time it takes to fire 4 shots I am pretty confident another officer would of likely fired atleast a 1 if they felt there was actually a threat.

The fact that they will not release the search warrant is also disturbing. Section 29 of the criminal code requires that one member of the search team has a physical copy of the warrant available to produce upon request. The sole surviving occupant of the house as well her legal representation have requested the warrant but it has still not been provided. That raises serious questions.

It may have been a reasonable use of force, but the actions of the other officers and the subsequent coverup makes any findings tainted in my opinion.

As for the firehall, anyone who thinks that it's justifiable to open fire on someone because they maybe, sort of, possibly look like they could be the person they are after without taking the most basic of precautions such as asking him to identify himself is someone I wonder if should have access to firearms.

58thecat · #**282** 12-03-2021, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

Been biting my tongue for awhile on this one...

Were there mistakes made? Absolutely.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks ( whom most don't have a frigging clue about what this profession is all about) are quick to judge...pretty sad...

So to all of you Brady's, unless you were actually there to witness or act on this very difficult situation, facing the stress that was absolutely involved by all these officers, trying to do the best they could with the confusing and minimal information that was available in real time...well...not gonna say it as I will get banned...

So many uninformed people (except for a few) around this site...pathetic at times...

Sure most of you smart internet educated guys/gals would do better under the same chaotic circumstances...

Just saying...

Well said Sir!

elkhunter11 · #**283** 12-03-2021, 06:42 AM

Quote:

As for the firehall, anyone who thinks that it's justifiable to open fire on someone because they maybe, sort of, possibly look like they could be the person they are after without taking the most basic of precautions such as asking him to identify himself is someone I wonder if should have access to firearms.

My point entirely!

Talking moose · #**284** 12-03-2021, 07:21 AM

It’s safer(for yourself) to shoot first. Ask questions later.
By the time officers could ask “ hey you….. with the govt issued police uniform standing next to a police car…… identify yourself….” You could be dead.

elkhunter11 · #**285** 12-03-2021, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talking moose

It’s safer(for yourself) to shoot first. Ask questions later.
By the time officers could ask “ hey you….. with the govt issued police uniform standing next to a police car…… identify yourself….” You could be dead.

Or you could use your radio to call in and verify if an officer is present at the location, while you observe him from a distance. Wouldn't that be preferable to killing a fellow officer, if your assumption is incorrect, as was the case?

Talking moose · #**286** 12-03-2021, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Or you could use your radio to call in and verify if an officer is present at the location, while you observe him from a distance. Wouldn't that be preferable to killing a fellow officer, if your assumption is incorrect, as was the case?

For sure it would.

Pioneer2 · #**287** 12-03-2021, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redhorse Ranch

Illegally. And no one ever answered for it.

And never will.

Smoky buck · #**288** 12-03-2021, 07:54 AM

Still too much information lacking to know what took place with this gunsmith

As for the RCMP I look at it this way dumb people are everywhere. Now think about how many dumb people you work with or have worked with. Think about all the poor choices you have seen made at work

Now realize the RCMP are just another workforce and they are going to have dumb people that work in that field. I actually know an RCMP officer that is dumb as a stump and I could not believe he made the cut

They are people just doing a job and you are going to find all types even dumb people. You are going to find those who are really good at their job too. Unfortunately in their position when a dumb person makes dumb choices it can be harmful to others or lethal

Personally I won’t judge the RCMP as a whole but I do believe that those who do make bad choices that involve excessive force or wrongful death need to be held accountable and that is lacking

They should not be crucified or protected just because of their job

Pathfinder76 · #**289** 12-03-2021, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Well said Sir!

This isn’t the stock boy at the grocery store spilling a carton of milk. Of which, if done twice, would likely be looking for a new job.

Let’s be honest. If we had someone here who shot a mule deer thinking it was a whitetail they would be drawn and quartered on this forum.

58thecat · #**290** 12-03-2021, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

This isn’t the stock boy at the grocery store spilling a carton of milk. Of which, if done twice, would likely be looking for a new job.

Let’s be honest. If we had someone here who shot a mule deer thinking it was a whitetail they would be drawn and quartered on this forum.

Only by a few on this forum as they walk the line of perfection...,mistakes happen plain and simple...by all of us...

elkhunter11 · #**291** 12-03-2021, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Only by a few on this forum as they walk the line of perfection...,mistakes happen plain and simple...by all of us...

Everyone makes mistakes, it comes down to the scale of the mistakes. When I go hunting, I don't shoot , until I am absolutely certain that the animal that I am looking at, is legal for me to shoot. I don't shoot because I see something that looks like it might be legal. If I am that careful when the life of a game animal, and a wildlife act violation is all that is at stake, you can bet that I would be even more careful if a human life is at stake. And if the person is in such fear that they panic and open fire on a person just because of the uniform they are wearing,( the same uniform worn by their own force) perhaps they need to change occupations, as they are a danger to not only the public, but to their own coworkers. Do you honestly think that the other officers in the detachment can ever trust those officers that opened fire again? Would you trust them with your life?

silvertip · #**292** 12-03-2021, 09:40 AM

They could be shunned by the other officers

A internal purge if you will

Not there so I, only speculate

Just like everyone else posting here

58thecat · #**293** 12-03-2021, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Everyone makes mistakes, it comes down to the scale of the mistakes. When I go hunting, I don't shoot , until I am absolutely certain that the animal that I am looking at, is legal for me to shoot. I don't shoot because I see something that looks like it might be legal. If I am that careful when the life of a game animal, and a wildlife act violation is all that is at stake, you can bet that I would be even more careful if a human life is at stake. And if the person is in such fear that they panic and open fire on a person just because of the uniform they are wearing,( the same uniform worn by their own force) perhaps they need to change occupations, as they are a danger to not only the public, but to their own coworkers. Do you honestly think that the other officers in the detachment can ever trust those officers that opened fire again? Would you trust them with your life?

Like I said perfection!

This is far from a hunting situation!

You and some will continue to jump up down and all around on this when you like me and all have no freakin clue what went on.

Zip, zero, nodda,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

elkhunter11 · #**294** 12-03-2021, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Like I said perfection!

This is far from a hunting situation!

You and some will continue to jump up down and all around on this when you like me and all have no freakin clue what went on.

Zip, zero, nodda,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually we do know that two RCMP officers opened fire on another RCMP officer, and missed him, but shot up a firehall, that was occupied with people at the time. Or do you deny that? What we don't know, is what was going on in the officers heads when they decided that opening fire was the correct course of action. Regardless, their actions endangered the life of the officer, as well as the lives of the civilians at the firehall.

HunterDave · #**295** 12-03-2021, 12:20 PM

Some people suffer from illusions of grandeur. I think that it’s a self esteem thingy.
Just like fat kids sitting in the bleachers making fun of the athletes on the field.

glen moa · #**296** 12-03-2021, 12:41 PM

Did the people in the firehouse say I’m ok with someone trying to kill me don’t punish them?
If you called for help would you like these two to show up or would you like someone else?

elkhunter11 · #**297** 12-03-2021, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Some people suffer from illusions of grandeur. I think that it’s a self esteem thingy.
Just like fat kids sitting in the bleachers making fun of the athletes on the field.

Fat kids on bleachers who make fun of athletes are usually just jealous, but nobody would be jealous of two losers, that tried to kill a coworker, and only failed because their skills with their weapons were inadequate?

58thecat · #**298** 12-03-2021, 12:52 PM

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Phil McCracken · #**299** 12-03-2021, 05:57 PM

As I said in my original post...mistakes were done. And I expanded why.

When it blows over, I am sure the officers that took actions against policies will be dealt with. Sure many of you will relish that.

The purpose was, many here and other forums blame the officers right away. I call BS on that! They are human beings and acted with the conflicting real time info they had in this case (sorry to have derailed the original post...but it morphed).

Interesting to see how many haters around here. CNN/MSNBC material. Good on you...my opinion of course.

You weren't there...so quit pretending you are all experts.

Highly educated engineers build bridges/buildings that fail. Highly educated car engineers design lemons...not much publicity on that...unless it goes wrong. No one talks about the things that "go" right.

Bottom line...put yourself in their boots...

Just saying...

Twisted Canuck · #**300** 12-03-2021, 06:05 PM

And besides, it was just one harmless old man who got killed by the police anyway, right Phil? Mistakes happen, no point making a big deal about it.

Just saying.