Chicago murder rate far worse than in Capone years

[Rocky7]

........In January 1929 there were 26 killings. Forty-two people were killed in Chicago last month, the most in January since 2002, and far worse than the city's most notorious crime era at the end of the Roaring Twenties.

Even though the image of Chicago, perpetuated by Hollywood over the years, was that mobsters routinely mowed down people on the streets, the crime stats tell a different story. The figures from January 2013 are significantly higher than the January of Al Capone's most famous year.

With Friday's fatal gunshot attack on a vehicle on a Lake Shore Drive, February is starting as January left off. But if the current murder rate continues, February 2013 will far exceed February 1929, when there were 26 killings, and that number includes the attack known around the world, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. In that single slaughter, seven people were lined up against a warehouse wall on North Clark Street and gunned down. It was a bootlegging dispute between North and South Side mob gangs.
That hasn't changed between then and now, as police today cite street gangs and drugs for the rise in killings.

The 42 murders in January is nowhere near the most ever in a month, but even that figure is not from the rat-a-tat-tat years. It is from the early 90s, when police also said a mix of gangs and drugs fueled the tremendous number of killings.

In January 1992 there were 77 murders in Chicago. That is the January record. Most of the murders then and this year were with guns. That was also the case in 1929.

There was no real gun control back in Capone's day. The first national firearms act wasn't signed until 1934.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...eam&id=8977635

[HunterDave]

WoooHooo! The Reverend Rocky's gonna give us a sermon. Two new threads about guns so far today and it's not even noon yet. Give 'er Rev!

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

WoooHooo! The Reverend Rocky's gonna give us a sermon. Two new threads about guns so far today and it's not even noon yet. Give 'er Rev!

He's interested in talking about it... actually it seems that most are... why bug him about it?

[JohninAB]

That article is so lame it hurts. Comparing 1929 murder rates to 2013 and trying to imply gun control laws are to blame for the difference is laughable at best.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

He's interested in talking about it... actually it seems that most are... why bug him about it?

It's not bugging me he's after, it's censorship. That's why he sits on my Ignore list. He'll have a harder time talking a moderator into closing my threads if he cannot bait me directly.

Chicago's mayor and the Governor of Illinois have asked President Obama to help them with Chicago's violent crime problem. It's a big story. They have as much as admitted they can't handle it.

Chicago's mayor has recently written a letter to U.S. banks asking them to stop lending to Ruger, Smith & Wesson, etc. until they comply with his idea of gun control.

Is this situation a story of interest to gun owners in Canada? Of course, it is.

Where do our guns come from? Who makes our ammo?

How does Canada stand against these zealots alone?

[keep6matt]

I like your posts Rocky, always make for very interesting reads.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

That article is so lame it hurts.

Really? Here's a bit about the guy who wrote it:

Chuck Goudie's reputation for being one of Chicago's toughest investigative reporters spans more than two decades. He has been the chief investigative reporter for ABC 7 News since 1990, often breaking major news stories before other media. He joined ABC 7 as a news reporter in 1980.

Goudie's compelling and hard-hitting investigative reporting not only wins major awards but gets results. For example, it was Goudie who first exposed the "Licenses-for-Bribes" investigation, revealing Illinois commercial drivers' licenses being sold to hundreds of unqualified truckers. His groundbreaking investigation prompted the FBI to go undercover, leading to dozens of federal corruption convictions all the way up to former Governor George Ryan.

His six-month investigation documenting misconduct, accidents and negligence by top members of the Illinois State Police unit that guards Governor Blagojevich, resulted in the governor ordering a thorough state police overhaul.

His investigation of sexual abuse allegations against the late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin resulted in the cardinal's accuser withdrawing charges. Other important investigations have shut down illegal businesses and shady charities, changed or created laws and resulted in criminal charges and incarceration.

Goudie has won many of broadcasting's top honors, including a National Emmy Award for exposing how government agencies and chemical companies were unprotected against a deadly terrorist attack.

Goudie has investigated and reported news stories from four continents; from New York's "Ground Zero"; war zones in the Middle East, the Arabian Sea and the Balkans; and from behind the walls of the Vatican.

Your ability to be dismissive with people who do not agree with you is stunning.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

WoooHooo! The Reverend Rocky's gonna give us a sermon. Two new threads about guns so far today and it's not even noon yet. Give 'er Rev!

Yup

Chicago's crime in general is caused by poverty. The high gun rates have been caused by poor regulations.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...came-from.html

Bad guys by guns from places that don't have the controls. The safety of it's citizens is based upon it's weakest link which are selling the guns to the bad guys. Bad guys bypass gun laws in Chicago and buy elsewhere. Other places prey on Chicago's gun crime by being the supplier...

[Sundancefisher]

The sick facts that Rocky fails to talk about. What happens when you flood a market with guns...? You get more bad guys with guns if you don't have back ground checks and better laws.

http://www.chicagomag.com/core/paget...%2F&mode=print

[Matt L.]

I can't figure out how you guys are so convinced that all will right with the world if we just sign a piece of paper. It really does boggle the mind SF.

[Sundancefisher]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/walker...b_2585941.html

Very good read...almost like this guy was reading all of Rocky's posts.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

I can't figure out how you guys are so convinced that all will right with the world if we just sign a piece of paper. It really does boggle the mind SF.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/walker...b_2585941.html

Read this and let me know your thoughts.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The sick facts that Rocky fails to talk about. What happens when you flood a market with guns...? You get more bad guys with guns if you don't have back ground checks and better laws.

http://www.chicagomag.com/core/paget...%2F&mode=print

It's a chicken vs. egg argument. Which came first, the supply or the demand? The Left wants to ignore the gang issue, and emphasize the gun issue. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/walker...b_2585941.html

Read this and let me know your thoughts.

typical of stats-pushers, yours are wrong mine are right!

(btw, an old article in the huffington post doesn't hold much weight)

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

typical of stats-pushers, yours are wrong mine are right!

(btw, an old article in the huffington post doesn't hold much weight)

Actually I am not saying you are wrong. I am countering Rocky saying only he is right.

I know how stats work.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

It's a chicken vs. egg argument. Which came first, the supply or the demand? The Left wants to ignore the gang issue, and emphasize the gun issue. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I can not argue with that. Without crime...guns would not be a dangerous tool in the wrong hands. Without guns...criminals would have to pick a different tool that likely would not be as effective.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I can not argue with that. Without crime...guns would not be a dangerous tool in the wrong hands. Without guns...criminals would have to pick a different tool that likely would not be as effective.

Yup, but guns do exist, and prohibitions generally don't work in open relatively free societies. What people desire, people acquire. If you google zip gun or CNC machine, you'll probably agree than just banning AR 15s and hi cap mags will have little impact on the firearms related crime in the US or anywhere for that matter.

Incidents like Sandy Hook, result in more diversion, than sound policy. Unfortunately, there is a lot of polarization in emotional debates such as guns, abortion...

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I can not argue with that. Without crime...guns would not be a dangerous tool in the wrong hands. Without guns...criminals would have to pick a different tool that likely would not be as effective.

Yah, for example the world was such a safe place before the invention of guns.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

It's a chicken vs. egg argument. Which came first, the supply or the demand? The Left wants to ignore the gang issue, and emphasize the gun issue. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Indeed it does. So why is the NRA opposed to closing the gun show loophole to include background checks for private and online gun sales? Why are they opposed to anything that could potentially restrict the sales of guns? Think about it, would this not make it harder for criminals to get guns that now simply have to order them online from the comforts of their home?

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Indeed it does. So why is the NRA opposed to closing the gun show loophole to include background checks for private and online gun sales? Why are they opposed to anything that could potentially restrict the sales of guns? Think about it, would this not make it harder for criminals to get guns that now simply have to order them online from the comforts of their home?

I'm not privy to the NRA's policy foundations, so I have no way to comment on their basis. From my Canadian stand point, I think a lot of sport shooters fear the death of their sport via a thousand cuts. Plenty of evidence that for some, a defacto police state is their ideal.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

I'm not privy to the NRA's policy foundations, so I have no way to comment on their basis. From my Canadian stand point, I think a lot of sport shooters fear the death of their sport via a thousand cuts. Plenty of evidence that for some, a defacto police state is their ideal.

The NRA's position on all of Obama's proposals are public knowledge, Wayne Lapierre made them known at the Senate Hearing last week. Nothing secret about them.

From a Canadian standpoint we are going in a different direction with gun laws becoming more relaxed (ie the long gun registry recently abolished). Just yesterday there was an article about the Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee in the Globe and Mail about how pro-gun they were. If you do a search you'll find articles about their proposals back in early December. Changing the validity of the PAL from 5 years to 10 is one that I think has a good shot.

It's no secret that the Liberals hate guns but as long as the Conservatives are governing our laws will remain gun friendly.

[score]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

I can't figure out how you guys are so convinced that all will right with the world if we just sign a piece of paper. It really does boggle the mind SF.

The utter lack of common sense, especially when repetitive, can't be understood.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by TomCanuck

Yup, but guns do exist, and prohibitions generally don't work in open relatively free societies. What people desire, people acquire. If you google zip gun or CNC machine, you'll probably agree than just banning AR 15s and hi cap mags will have little impact on the firearms related crime in the US or anywhere for that matter.

Incidents like Sandy Hook, result in more diversion, than sound policy. Unfortunately, there is a lot of polarization in emotional debates such as guns, abortion...

Calling it a prohibition is not accurate. We have a prohibition on missile launchers. We have increased laws in Canada versus the US that people follow well enough that we enjoy a significantly lower gun murder rate than the US.

I don't agree with banning AR15's...but I do hi cap mags. Most crime involves hand guns. Most mass murders involve larger clips in either handguns or rifles.

Would you agree that if you make it easy to do something bad that more do it. For instance...if you took all speed limits off the highways...would more people speed and result in more deaths?

Therefore why have easy access to bad guys for something that is preferred to make mass murder easier. Why not allow them but put limitations such that fewer bad guys get them.

Limitations are working in Canada.

That all being said...in Canada...I would not open up hi cap mags and automatic machine guns.

In the US...there are so many guns that they can not do anything about the massive spill over into the criminal hands.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Yah, for example the world was such a safe place before the invention of guns.

and the Indians and First Nations and white man did not become way more adept at mass killing off Buffalo with guns versus bow and arrows.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

The NRA's position on all of Obama's proposals are public knowledge, Wayne Lapierre made them known at the Senate Hearing last week. Nothing secret about them.

From a Canadian standpoint we are going in a different direction with gun laws becoming more relaxed (ie the long gun registry recently abolished). Just yesterday there was an article about the Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee in the Globe and Mail about how pro-gun they were. If you do a search you'll find articles about their proposals back in early December. Changing the validity of the PAL from 5 years to 10 is one that I think has a good shot.

It's no secret that the Liberals hate guns but as long as the Conservatives are governing our laws will remain gun friendly.

While the NRA's positions are pulic knowledge, what's driving them is somewhat more cryptic in my view. Some people claim it's the arms trade that is calling the shots. Maybe; there is certianly a lot of money in ARs and accessories for them.

What gets me is that mass shootings are not the big problem, but they are the big issue, thanks to the media. Certianly in Canada, gangsterism is the bulk of the problem. As far as Liberals, you can sure tell one, but you sure can't tell em much ;-) A 10 year PAL would be great, and would not compromise public safety. But the likes of Cukier and Jack Harris will never admit that.

I also expect that at some point in Canada, there will be a, "ban" on semis and or handguns, though I hope I'm wrong.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Actually I am not saying you are wrong. I am countering Rocky saying only he is right.

I know how stats work.

I was also referring to the stats pushers in your quoted article.

I would love to be able to have even a 10rnd mag in an AR, but even more, I would love the ability to hunt with one, is that really so dangerous and wrong?

[purgatory.sv]

We have issue in Canada occurring right now in regards to transport permission. Depending on which province you live in the CFO administrators are changing the rules. It’s being challenged in the legal system in Ontario.

We had no input to the system we use but adjust to it, so it prudent the states oppose any proposed change.

But what I say has no bearing on any of the discussion in regards to the USA.

I have no facts, I am just one and that is the issue, all these threads are great but we can’t implement what we think is the answer.

We have issues here.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Calling it a prohibition is not accurate. We have a prohibition on missile launchers. We have increased laws in Canada versus the US that people follow well enough that we enjoy a significantly lower gun murder rate than the US.

I don't agree with banning AR15's...but I do hi cap mags. Most crime involves hand guns. Most mass murders involve larger clips in either handguns or rifles.

Would you agree that if you make it easy to do something bad that more do it. For instance...if you took all speed limits off the highways...would more people speed and result in more deaths?

Therefore why have easy access to bad guys for something that is preferred to make mass murder easier. Why not allow them but put limitations such that fewer bad guys get them.

Limitations are working in Canada.

That all being said...in Canada...I would not open up hi cap mags and automatic machine guns.

In the US...there are so many guns that they can not do anything about the massive spill over into the criminal hands.

I guarentee you, that if someone wants a missile launcher bad enough they'll get one. Also, when one is in the news, it will probably be just the fiber-glass tube from a spent 72mm rocket (no threat to anyone).

I personally have no great desire for hi cap mags, but I don't think they are needed for a large body count. A pump action 12 guage with practice is a fearsome weapon. (the poor man's sub-machine gun). As for full autos, I think they are only tactically needed in military scenarios. Semi-auto fire is far more effective.

In the end, I don't think the problem is the gun, it's the attitude about their use and or the mental stability of the owner. The closure of mental institutions in the 70s and 80s has no doubt had an impact on crime.

[TomCanuck]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

I was also referring to the stats pushers in your quoted article.

I would love to be able to have even a 10rnd mag in an AR, but even more, I would love the ability to hunt with one, is that really so dangerous and wrong?

Pretty sure you can get, "pistol" mags for ARs that are 10 rounders and legal in Canada. I doubt they will come off the restricted list. Heck, Jack Harris would stroke out if he found out you were shooting yotes with one!

[doetracks]

Interesting article, Rocky Keep it up, enjoying your posts