No 4x4 on Honda 450es

[ditch donkey]

Hello group!

I’ve done a lot of googling, atv forums, etc. And I still haven’t found a real clear answer , so I’ll put it here.

I’ve got a 2004 Honda 450es 4x4, but the 4x4 will not stay engaged. Here’s my symptoms-

4x4 indicator light will not come on with ignition on, but comes on with engine running

All wheels turn when up on blocks

4x4 seems to work initially when driving but stops after a few seconds

4x4 indicator light is always on when engine is running, regardless of whether 4x4 is working

No noise, grinding etc.

I’ve pulled the rack and fenders off, cleaned all the wire connections.

In my heart of hearts, I think the battery voltage is too low. Voltage meter says it’s at 12.3 v, I’ve read it should be around 12.6 v.

Battery is probably 8 years old.

Can I hook up a car battery to test it? It’s still a 12v battery?
Any other thoughts?

[1shotwade]

Could be you shift motor!! I had one that would stick then pop out of 4x4 driving!

[BEL]

Fluids have been checked and topped up? BEL

[bukwild]

Is the light steady or blinking? Blinking intends a code. Yes they do need sufficient voltage so do try another battery first.

[58thecat]

Fully charged different battery....give that a shot first. Things go wonky when a bit cold.

[harv3589]

My 500 was doing funny things and it turned out battery needed to be replaced. All good now

[Head Lice]

Try another battery. I have a pair of 450 Foreman quads.

[Head Lice]

Originally Posted by 1shotwade

Could be you shift motor!! I had one that would stick then pop out of 4x4 driving!

The shift motor grease is too heavy. If it's the original grease, remove the shift motor unit and carefully access the gears. Clean and re-grease with white lithium. This is a common fix for for these ES 450's.
When removing the shift unit, do not remove the fasteners that hold the motor to the housing. Remove the bolts that hold the shift motor unit to the engine block.

[Dean2]

Head Lice is correct, that grease replace should be done on all Hondas that run in cold weather. That said, I am betting that putting a new battery in will solve your current problem. The fact it won't go into 4x4 unless the motor is running and the alternator is putting out juice tells you the battery isn't supplying enough on its own. If you want to verify, hook up a battery charger and switch the 4x4 in and out. My suggestion, spend the extra couple of bucks and get the Yuasa factory battery. They last way better than the cheap replacements.

[Takemeoutside]

If you are looking for a new battery, check out an Odyssey battery. Had one in my Grizzly 700 and it worked fantastic, easily held charge over the winter etc. It was cheaper than a factory replacement as well.

[st99]

impossible, honda owners always tell me their machine is bullet proof and only need an oil change once every 10 yrs.....

[kingrat]

Originally Posted by st99

impossible, honda owners always tell me their machine is bullet proof and only need an oil change once every 10 yrs.....

Not true, also needs new battery once every 8 years roughly, but that's not a Honda part so I guess it dont count.

[Head Lice]

Originally Posted by st99

Impossible, Honda owners always tell me their machine is bullet proof and only needs an oil change once every 10 yrs.....

I've heard that you owners of those 'off brands' have to carry an extra belt with them at all times . . . . I've been carrying extra gears for decades and never had to change them. Belts are for holding your pants up . . .

[ditch donkey]

Thanks for the tips!

The quad is always in the shop so I don’t think the grease being stiff is an issue, but I do have the rack, and fenders off so I may as well re-grease it.

I’ll try another battery, or at the very least plug it in to the charger and drive it line that.

Thanks again!
I’ll report my findings.

[bukwild]

Originally Posted by st99

impossible, honda owners always tell me their machine is bullet proof and only need an oil change once every 10 yrs.....

At minimum that machine is 16 years old and all it needs is a battery and some grease. My 2000 450 foreman is still hauling wood over the mountain even after rolling it down said mountain 5yrs ago.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by bukwild

At minimum that machine is 16 years old and all it needs is a battery and some grease. My 2000 450 foreman is still hauling wood over the mountain even after rolling it down said mountain 5yrs ago.

Yup, mine just hit 20 years old, Foreman 400. In 20 years it is on its second battery. Oil, grease and one set of tiires up till now. Adjusted the valves, new front bearings and one Speedo sending unit this summer. Spent its whole life plowing snow and hunting. None of my buddies have any other 20 year old quads of other makes, all had to be replaced at about 10 years and are being replaced again now. Mine is good for another 15 years at least. I too hate Honda's terrible reliability.

[Head Lice]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Yup, mine just hit 20 years old, Foreman 400.
None of my buddies have any other 20 year old quads of other makes, all had to be replaced at about 10 years and are being replaced again now.
Mine is good for another 15 years at least.
I too hate Honda's terrible reliability.

Good post! ^^

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by bukwild

At minimum that machine is 16 years old and all it needs is a battery and some grease. My 2000 450 foreman is still hauling wood over the mountain even after rolling it down said mountain 5yrs ago.

X2. However my little 350 rancher has all bells/whistles. A women pleaser........

[Positrac]

2003 Honda TRX 350 Rancher here. Basically just oil changes and grease. Adjusted the valves once 3 years ago and swapped out the original battery 2 years ago, although it should have been done sooner. That’s the benefit of having a back-up recoil starter in addition to electric.

I’m running 26x10x12’s Mud Lites up front and 26x12x12’s out back in about the worst Muskeg conditions you could think of. It’s been completely sunk 5 times where it went down fast. Yank it out, drain carb & air box, pull plug, tilt and drain exhaust, turn it over with a bit of sea foam in the plug hole. Re-install plug, prime and go. I’ve checked all the fluids when I get back and change out the motor/tranny but so far none have shown any sign of water getting in.

It’s not fast or overly comfortable, but it is dependable and does everything I ask of it. When you are 30km out in the middle of nowhere with no one else around for miles that’s all that really matters.

[ditch donkey]

Originally Posted by Head Lice

The shift motor grease is too heavy. If it's the original grease, remove the shift motor unit and carefully access the gears. Clean and re-grease with white lithium. This is a common fix for for these ES 450's.
When removing the shift unit, do not remove the fasteners that hold the motor to the housing. Remove the bolts that hold the shift motor unit to the engine block.

Where is the 4x4 shift motor? Is it the same unit as the gear shift motor?

I’ve found lots of reference and drawings of the gear shift motor, but nothing regarding the 4x4 shift motor.

I cut wood yesterday, and got the shop warmed up, so going to have a look later this morning. Maybe the 4x4 shift motor will be obvious?

[204ruger]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

Where is the 4x4 shift motor? Is it the same unit as the gear shift motor?

I’ve found lots of reference and drawings of the gear shift motor, but nothing regarding the 4x4 shift motor.

I cut wood yesterday, and got the shop warmed up, so going to have a look later this morning. Maybe the 4x4 shift motor will be obvious?

I believe the previous suggestion were for the gear shift selector motor nothing to do with 4x4. The suggestions of it possibly being the battery are true the battery needs to be able to hold full voltage for things to work properly. the 4x4 actuator is on the front differential on the side of the case where the pinion is. You can take it off the side and have it in your hand while you switch the button and it should switch back and forth. Could also be just a poor connection in any of the three wire plugs coming from front diff. Or one axle has popped out just a little due to a broke circlip.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by st99

impossible, honda owners always tell me their machine is bullet proof and only need an oil change once every 10 yrs.....

That's about right with my two....2004/05 Honda fourtrax 350cc FM.....minimizing that electronic crap as much as possible.....but as soon as you start getting fancy, bells and whistles well if poop hits the fan your into it usually deep and that goes with anything nowadays for the most part....funny though how a new fresh battery clears up snags that appear when it gets a little cold...

Best of luck to the OP....it's a Honda....small fix and another 15 plus years of running the heck out of it

[Head Lice]

[QUOTE=ditch donkey;4280994]Where is the 4x4 shift motor? Is it the same unit as the gear shift motor?

I’ve found lots of reference and drawings of the gear shift motor, but nothing regarding the 4x4 shift motor.

My apologies! I've misread your post. References were for the gearshift motor on the front of the engine. Hoping you get your problem fixed. The grease in the transmission shift motor does get hard, and it's worth changing it at a later date.
Again, apologies for my brain fog.

[marlin1]

my Honda 500 would not go into 4 either . Battery replaced , problem solved

[Mister Bee]

I have a 2004 450 that had very similar symptoms. 4wd light never blinked, was always on, however if you got stuck the 4wd would kick out and front wheels would stop turning as soon as there was a marginal amount of torque on the tires. On blocks they would turn every time. Mine the 4wd actuator was no good. Unfortunately they are not serviceable so ended up swapping a used diff into it. Works 100% now.

[ditch donkey]

Update- I’m out of ideas!

Took things apart, cleaned electrical connections, changed batteries, greased things, no change.

Taking it to Alberta Motor Sports on Friday. Thanks for all the input!

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

Update- I’m out of ideas!

Took things apart, cleaned electrical connections, changed batteries, greased things, no change.

Taking it to Alberta Motor Sports on Friday. Thanks for all the input!

Dam....looks like it's a new complete part....

[ditch donkey]

What I’m wrestling with now is these quads are so cheap, I’m not sure it’s worth fixing?

Maybe it needs a new diff, or actuator? Used parts and labour, I don’t know? $1200? Guys are asking $3000 for low km similar units on Kijiji, that would probably serve me on the farm for 20 years. I rarely make it out of second gear.

Or maybe that unit would leave me in the same spot in the spring!? HA!

[ditch donkey]

Maybe I’ll just keep it as 2wd? Or weld it in 4wd?

Wait and see the issue I guess?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

Maybe I’ll just keep it as 2wd? Or weld it in 4wd?

Wait and see the issue I guess?

Labour at a shop is the biggest cost most of the time....maybe have them properly diagnose the problem and you order and swap out the part....just a thought? But if they got the machine tore apart to diagnose the problem then just let them finish the job....good luck.