Using Alberta outfitters

[nube]

Seems to me more and more guys are using outfitters these days for hunts. I was planning on booking some waterfowl hunts this year for some residents and duck hunts and it seems a lot of people have interest for a short notice type hunt.
One thing I have noticed is there are a lot of new hunters that are mostly interested or real busy types.
I can say I have hired an outfitter myself in Alberta when I had a tag that took a long time to get and it was important to have some help from someone who knew the area well.
Curious if many of you have used them in the past and for what species and why did you choose to hire someone?

[elkhunter11]

I hired an Alberta outfitter twice to hunt bighorn, because I don't have horses or the required tent and gear, and I didn't want to spend the vacation time I had spotting. I took a 9-1/2 year old ram on the first hunt, and I turned down legal sheep on the second hunt looking for a larger ram, than I had already taken. At the time, resident sheep hunts were going for $3500-$4000 for a ten day hunt, but the same outfitter now charges $10,000 for a seven day hunt.

[3blade]

Haven’t yet, but here’s why I’m thinking about it for an elk hunt next year:
a) I’m jinxed re: elk (0/11, no shots fired)
b) with the price of fuel and food I spend just as much or more scouting myself, with more time limits, less accomplished, and less permission.

There was a time I would have scoffed at the idea, because I could hunt close to home, or away, with 20+ scouting days and 50-60 hunting days every year. Now that’s changed and I can see why it’s an attractive option.

[bobalong]

I have never used one and I am not a sheep hunter, but I can see someone booking an outfitter for that.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

A lot of guys in AB with money and lack of time. Don’t have time to scout goose shoots or train horses or lion hounds. Hiring an outfitter is a great option.

[Justahunter]

You are 100% right. One of the difficulties in Alberta surrounds the fact that an outfitter cannot sell an allocation to a resident. When I outfitted I had several guys that just wanted to be able to pay me for the complete deal but could not because of the regulation. I understand the idea that opening it up for residents to buy a hunt that way is allowing the rich guy to jump the cue ,but that also removes a guy from the competition which allows another not so rich guy a chance to draw a tag. It also allows an outfitter to BUDGET for a better business. (something NDP`ers wouldn`t understand). The current allocation system simply creates a ton of hard feelings between guys that all have one thing in common ,A Love for Hunting.

[reddeerhunter]

Originally Posted by Justahunter

You are 100% right. One of the difficulties in Alberta surrounds the fact that an outfitter cannot sell an allocation to a resident. When I outfitted I had several guys that just wanted to be able to pay me for the complete deal but could not because of the regulation. I understand the idea that opening it up for residents to buy a hunt that way is allowing the rich guy to jump the cue ,but that also removes a guy from the competition which allows another not so rich guy a chance to draw a tag. It also allows an outfitter to BUDGET for a better business. (something NDP`ers wouldn`t understand). The current allocation system simply creates a ton of hard feelings between guys that all have one thing in common ,A Love for Hunting.

Great perspective sir. Well said.

[nube]

Originally Posted by Justahunter

You are 100% right. One of the difficulties in Alberta surrounds the fact that an outfitter cannot sell an allocation to a resident. When I outfitted I had several guys that just wanted to be able to pay me for the complete deal but could not because of the regulation. I understand the idea that opening it up for residents to buy a hunt that way is allowing the rich guy to jump the cue ,but that also removes a guy from the competition which allows another not so rich guy a chance to draw a tag. It also allows an outfitter to BUDGET for a better business. (something NDP`ers wouldn`t understand). The current allocation system simply creates a ton of hard feelings between guys that all have one thing in common ,A Love for Hunting.

Ya I wish a tag could be sold to anyone. Fair is fair.
I think the time thing is a real thing.
One of the biggest issues with residents and bird hunting is a lot of guys don't have the time to do a lot of scouting so they go out on a friday night expecting to find a hunt and are frustrated when outfitters and locals have been watching the birds and have things already tied up. It costs a pile of money to drive around to find hunts.
Lots of guys I know are hiring for snow geese in the spring it seems. I would rather pay even myself for the main work to get done and spotting finished before coming out for the price.
I'll give it a go this year and see if it's worth it to guys to book me for some duck hunts.
I think the way things are going a lot more people are more interested in going that route than spending the time and money doing themselves. I know when I was younger I had the time and not the money but the older you get it seems its the other way around.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by nube

Ya I wish a tag could be sold to anyone. Fair is fair.
I think the time thing is a real thing.
One of the biggest issues with residents and bird hunting is a lot of guys don't have the time to do a lot of scouting so they go out on a friday night expecting to find a hunt and are frustrated when outfitters and locals have been watching the birds and have things already tied up. It costs a pile of money to drive around to find hunts.
Lots of guys I know are hiring for snow geese in the spring it seems. I would rather pay even myself for the main work to get done and spotting finished before coming out for the price.
I'll give it a go this year and see if it's worth it to guys to book me for some duck hunts.
I think the way things are going a lot more people are more interested in going that route than spending the time and money doing themselves. I know when I was younger I had the time and not the money but the older you get it seems its the other way around.

Our party tries to hunt geese every Saturday during the season. I scout Thursday evening, and Friday morning, and then check my primary field and secondary field Friday evening, and watch the birds leave the primary field. Even though I scout within 20 minutes or so of my home, it still takes me a couple of hours for each trip, so about six hours of scouting per hunt. Many people just aren't willing to commit that much time, as well as locating the landowner, and securing permission, for a morning hunt. As well, three of us have each invested close to $1000 each for blinds, decoys, calls etc , which is very cheap compared to many people, but some people would rather pay an outfitter for a hunt or two every year.

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by nube

I know when I was younger I had the time and not the money but the older you get it seems its the other way around.

There is no doubt you are on to something here Nube...

Add in distance from where some people live to decent bird hunting and it eats up even more of the precious little time some of us have to spend outdoors. I live in Fort McMurray and to have all the deeks for a few days hunting a year and then travel south to try and find a hunt all adds up to a lot of work for very few hours in the field when on a tight schedule. For the last 7 years my goal has been to get out on a decent shoot but each year something else seems to take the priority because let’s face it, just to get to the point a guy is sitting in a blind takes a lot of time and effort, not something the average working guy raising a family has.

Hiring a guide to get out there makes a lot of sense for some people and not just because of the lack of effort it takes or because instant gratification seems to be the way a lot of people roll nowadays...

[nube]

Ya Elk and Posi I hear ya. To be honest if I wasn't outfitting I doubt I would hunt birds more than a few times a year or if at all. I only shoot myself about 5 times a year if lucky and kinda burnt out when it is all done with clients. I hired an extra guy this year and between clients and timing I can get guys on birds I know. I can have a guide run the hunts and when not needed it's nice to have the extra guy around.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by nube

Ya Elk and Posi I hear ya. To be honest if I wasn't outfitting I doubt I would hunt birds more than a few times a year or if at all. I only shoot myself about 5 times a year if lucky and kinda burnt out when it is all done with clients. I hired an extra guy this year and between clients and timing I can get guys on birds I know. I can have a guide run the hunts and when not needed it's nice to have the extra guy around.

I’ll shoot you a pm this fall and we can hook up on a bird hunt or two whenever it works. I have all the decoys and blinds and we have a couple areas where we have a fair amount of permission. If you want to come along and bring a couple buddy’s your more than welcome. We usually do ok 👌

[drake]

this a great option for guys lacking the time to properly scout or for those who lack the gear or experience. I’ve used a local outfitter the last couple years for spring snows and it has been money well spent. There is no way I could have taken the time off work and scouted; not to mention the gear investment (even amortized over a decade) for cheaper than what I pay per day. Good luck this season guys

[nube]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I’ll shoot you a pm this fall and we can hook up on a bird hunt or two whenever it works. I have all the decoys and blinds and we have a couple areas where we have a fair amount of permission. If you want to come along and bring a couple buddy’s your more than welcome. We usually do ok 👌

Thanks for the offer but I think I will do o.k this fall.

[dustinjoels]

I never really understood why outfitters can’t sell allocation tags to residents. I get that it creates a divide between the rich and poor, but someone with money is buying that tag anyways so might as well be an albertan if they are willing to spend the money.

Nice to see nube offering his services for birds. Price he’s posted on Facebook looks fair. I’d probably go if I didn’t spend what precious time I have in the fall elk hunting with my bow.

[marky_mark]

My bad.. thought you were looking to go hunting, not selling your own
Services.. I got the gear and lots of times I don’t have time to scout. Would be great to know your rates

[Justahunter]

Originally Posted by nube

Ya I wish a tag could be sold to anyone. Fair is fair.
I think the time thing is a real thing.
One of the biggest issues with residents and bird hunting is a lot of guys don't have the time to do a lot of scouting so they go out on a friday night expecting to find a hunt and are frustrated when outfitters and locals have been watching the birds and have things already tied up. It costs a pile of money to drive around to find hunts.
Lots of guys I know are hiring for snow geese in the spring it seems. I would rather pay even myself for the main work to get done and spotting finished before coming out for the price.
I'll give it a go this year and see if it's worth it to guys to book me for some duck hunts.
I think the way things are going a lot more people are more interested in going that route than spending the time and money doing themselves. I know when I was younger I had the time and not the money but the older you get it seems its the other way around.

Good to hear that there is some credit to the idea. I always said that not being able to sell a hunt (Moose in particular ) to a resident was wrong. The argument that then only the rich can hunt changes to only rich Americans can hunt. I would just as soon take out a fellow Albertan. the other thing is I paid a lot of $$$ for the allocation and need to be selling hunts to justify the expenditure. I know that I could have and would have sold 1/2 of my hunts every year to an Albertan . The other thing that becomes apparent quit rapidly is that because I lived in the hunting area 100% of the time I became very aware of the health of the wildlife in that area. Now if our biologists were truly concerned about anything besides their ego`s and their ulterior motives they would have spent a little more time consulting with people like myself that are VERY close to the environment. Not to say that myself and others like me are always correct but at least consulting with us the biologist would be able to determine our state of mind . AND if just occasionaly something of a bigger nature came out of the conversation it would be well worth the effort.

[Birch River]

The thought has crossed my mind before, in regards to resident outfitting, that there is a danger in management of a WMU. Allocations are given to an outfitter according to what is believed to be a sustainable harvest for that area. If a outfitter is offering hunts to residents for non draw species there will be a much higher harvest rate in that area.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Birch River

The thought has crossed my mind before, in regards to resident outfitting, that there is a danger in management of a WMU. Allocations are given to an outfitter according to what is believed to be a sustainable harvest for that area. If a outfitter is offering hunts to residents for non draw species there will be a much higher harvest rate in that area.

Much higher? Just how many residents do you suppose use the services of an outfitter for big game?

[1899b]

I would tend to believe that more and more Alberta residients are using outfitters because more and more Alberta residents are locked out of private land and cannot obtain permission where outfitters have permision.

Excluding sheep of course....

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by 1899b

I would tend to believe that more and more Alberta residients are using outfitters because more and more Alberta residents are locked out of private land and cannoty obtain permission where outfitters have permision.

Excluding sheep of course....

Hit the Nail on the head. The use of outfitters by residents encourages the outfitter and landowners to "get together" in some form of monetary relationship. The landowner gets "something" from the outfitter and excludes everyone else from their land. Legal or not we all know it happens. That's a very slippery slope for residents to follow, in the future it could be all outfitted hunting on private land whether we want it or not. Outfitters will argue that the allocations won't allow that to happen but allocations can be changed anytime by the government.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Justahunter]

Originally Posted by 1899b

I would tend to believe that more and more Alberta residients are using outfitters because more and more Alberta residents are locked out of private land and cannot obtain permission where outfitters have permision.

Excluding sheep of course....

Are you serious????? Residents will use an outfitter for a lot of reasons but not because the outfitter has purchased some special permission from a land owner. That might happen but in so few instances it is hardly worthy of mention. How about residents that are paying land holders for access to their property .Some with cash ,some with barter . I`d say it is likely cheaper for the resident to pay for access then to have someone guide him . I believe that there should be ZERO outfitting in any area where there is more then 60% of the land base held by private ownership. But in areas where the majority of the land is under crown then outfitting is allowed.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by Justahunter

Are you serious????? Residents will use an outfitter for a lot of reasons but not because the outfitter has purchased some special permission from a land owner. That might happen but in so few instances it is hardly worthy of mention. How about residents that are paying land holders for access to their property .Some with cash ,some with barter . I`d say it is likely cheaper for the resident to pay for access then to have someone guide him . I believe that there should be ZERO outfitting in any area where there is more then 60% of the land base held by private ownership. But in areas where the majority of the land is under crown then outfitting is allowed.

Im just saying that there are more than likely alot of residents nowadays that are tired of door knocking and getting turned down from landowners so they eventually breakdown, hire an outfitter and get taken to the game....

[Justahunter]

OK got it. But I still believe that outfitting should be done on CROWN LAND. On private land it is a paid access issue. The rules tend to make people bend them . So on private land the land owner should be able to do as he pleases. On the other hand ,all crown land needs to be open access to public (barring safety issues) but licensed outfitters should be able to sell to whoever they chose.

[Justfishin73]

We hired one for snow geese this year, only because was dirt cheap, and the snows are a huge pita to figure out. Then the weather went South and they were late. No hunt.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Justahunter

OK got it. But I still believe that outfitting should be done on CROWN LAND. On private land it is a paid access issue. The rules tend to make people bend them . So on private land the land owner should be able to do as he pleases. On the other hand ,all crown land needs to be open access to public (barring safety issues) but licensed outfitters should be able to sell to whoever they chose.

That is the route that Saskatchewan chose, outfitters are hunting crown land for regulated hunting.

[Mastodon]

I would consider hiring a local outfitter for bird hunting, and would love to do a cougar hunt with hounds.

[KCL]

I have used an outfitter for a goat hunt. I am also an outfitter myself. Why should outfitters be restricted to crown land only? Not following that logic.

[boah]

Originally Posted by KCL

I have used an outfitter for a goat hunt. I am also an outfitter myself. Why should outfitters be restricted to crown land only? Not following that logic.

It is common knowledge that some private land is locked down to outfitters through illegal ways. Hard to prove though.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by boah

It is common knowledge that some private land is locked down to outfitters through illegal ways. Hard to prove though.

It’s common knowledge residents hunt through illegal ways. What’s your point?