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Old 02-16-2009, 12:06 PM
newdrenalin newdrenalin is offline
 
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Default Long Range Rifle

I am thinking of buying a long range rifle for hunting/shooting. I've been reading as much as i can find on this site and the long range hunting site. One of my questions is it seems all the info i've been reading is geared towards .30 caliber and bigger calibers. Would i be alright shooting something like a 270 wsm at long range. I hunt moose, deer and deer. Another question i have is there a factory production rifle that would be accurate right out of the box or should i go with custom right off the bat. I am looking to spend about $2000 for the rifle and another $1000 or a scope. I am not stuck on the 270, just not a big fan of really heavy recoil.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:12 PM
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When a person talks about long range shooting, the first question asked by us that tend to "get out there" is HOW long?
Long for some is normal for others.
My idea of long with a 6.5WSM wildcat is "idling speed" for ATR and his big 338's or his 50's.
At the same time, it's too far for many who shoot rifles that tend to give it up at 700 yards.
So, what distance are you planning to shoot at ?
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:15 PM
Eagle Eye Eagle Eye is offline
 
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Well, I think the Remington Long Range Tactical Model 700 would fit this bill nicely. I have one in 308 and it is a shooter, right from the box...small cloverleaf. They are similar to the Remington police model 700 but have a better stock and finish. Also has fluted stainless steel barrel with black trynite coating and aluminum bedding system. Reasonable price too. Check it out at Remington.com
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:17 PM
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I would pick a plain jane rem 7mm for long range with minimum recoil, but I haven't really done any of it. The bigger 300s+ will definately reach out further, but recoil will go up. 270wsm is newer but I see more pros than cons, vs the 7Rem. Availability and being able to go to heavier bullets is the biggest reason, as well as possibly getting better numbers reloading vs wsm cases. Not quite sure if the factory velocities are easily attained. You should get some good feedback from others on here. You need to watch your impact velocities to ensure good expansion, I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say "long range".''

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Old 02-16-2009, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagle Eye View Post
Well, I think the Remington Long Range Tactical Model 700 would fit this bill nicely. I have one in 308 and it is a shooter, right from the box...small cloverleaf. They are similar to the Remington police model 700 but have a better stock and finish. Also has fluted stainless steel barrel with black trynite coating and aluminum bedding system. Reasonable price too. Check it out at Remington.com
What load do you use for this rifle. I have the same rifle but can not find a good load.
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:59 PM
Eagle Eye Eagle Eye is offline
 
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I shoot match bullets only with it since I use mine for target shooting but there are hundreds of appropriate hunting bullets out there that are sure to work. What have you tried? Any of the premium bonded bullets, like the Hornady Interbond or Nosler Accubond behind Hodgdon Varget would be a great start for cold weather hunting. I would also try some Nosler Partitions because they have always been so effective on game for me in the past.

I use Sierra 155 gr PALMA in my Tactical and mine also likes the Sierra 168 BTSP Match. It has a 1 in 12" twist rate so really heavy bullets are not likely to fly well. One of these days I will experiment with some premium hunting bullets in case I ever need to use this rig for hunting. I carry a light weight REM 700 Mountain rifle in 270 WIN for regular hunts because that matches my style of hunting (lots of slow walking and no trucking).

Regarding your Tactical rifle, have you adjusted the trigger yet? Because it uses the 40-X target trigger, it is user adjustable without removing the rifle from the stock. If you are not sure about this issue, check the manual. It is a superb trigger.. I have the same one in my REM XR-100. Not a hint of creap, over travel or movement before or after either one lets go at 1.5# pull.

Hope this helps, let me know.
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Old 02-16-2009, 01:08 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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A rifle like the 700 sendero in 7mmremmag would be a great choice.The heavier weight will also reduce felt recoil.If you want even more accuracy,or the choice of stock,barrel length etc,you might consider buying a 700SPS,and then have a reputable gunsmith true the action, install a premium barrel and a high quality stock.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:26 PM
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I Agree With Catinthehat...How Far Is Too Far?????.......
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:47 PM
newdrenalin newdrenalin is offline
 
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Thanks for the replies. When i say "long range" I'm talking about 500 yards, til i'm very confident at that distance. Only after that I'd like to get into shooting at longer distances ( out to 1000 yards) What do you guys recommend for a rifle that would be good for long range shooting but also can be used for hunting? Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tkhiebs View Post
What load do you use for this rifle. I have the same rifle but can not find a good load.
How clean is your barrel?
Just asking.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:32 PM
Canuck44 Canuck44 is offline
 
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In my opinion get what you want, I personally would not be happy with something that someone else reccomended if it wasn't what I wanted. If you want a 270wsm get a 270wsm, if you want a 7mm get a 7mm.

I am not a long range shooter, the longest shots I have taken are with my 270 win at 500yrds but I believe that the important thing is knowing your gun and how it shoots. If you know this and the gun is reasonably accurate you should be fine. Once I had the drop figured out on my 270 I was hitting the gongs regularly at 300 & 400 yrds and grouping about 8 inches at 500, not much by some peoples standards but with a range finder and a good rest on a calm day I would be fine on deer out to 400+ yrds.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by newdrenalin View Post
Thanks for the replies. When i say "long range" I'm talking about 500 yards, til i'm very confident at that distance. Only after that I'd like to get into shooting at longer distances ( out to 1000 yards) What do you guys recommend for a rifle that would be good for long range shooting but also can be used for hunting? Thanks in advance.
I'm shooting the savage 111 in 270 wsm. I can reach out to 500 yards comfortably with factory ammo and I don't pretend to be any kind of professional. I find the 270 wsm cartridge to be nice shooting and very forgiving for anyone that is recoil sensitive. I have had two of my "nonshooter" friends shatter a watermelon at 200 yards with this rifle. I have also heard that there are many options for triggers and barrels if you want to refine the savage more than it comes from the factory, but I dont know a lot about that. I'm sure if you ask fellas like roger or catnthehat on here they could tell you more details as they know much more then the average shooter.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:44 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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In my opinion get what you want, I personally would not be happy with something that someone else reccomended if it wasn't what I wanted. If you want a 270wsm get a 270wsm, if you want a 7mm get a 7mm.
He is asking for recommendations,because he is not sure just what he wants.The reason that I suggested the 7mmremmag over the 270wsm is that there is a much better selection of .284" match bullets suitable for long range use.He did mention that he would like to get into long range shooting out to 1000 yards.In that situation,a match bullet is more suitable than most hunting bullets.Berger for one,does not even list a .277" match bullet on their site.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
.... I suggested the 7mmremmag over the 270wsm is that there is a much better selection of .284" match bullets suitable for long range use.He did mention that he would like to get into long range shooting out to 1000 yards.In that situation,a match bullet is more suitable than most hunting bullets.
I agree. The 7mm Rem Mag may be the very best LR cartridge in terms of balancing reasonable powder charges (read: affordable to shoot), managable recoil (read: brake not needed), good downrange energy (important if you hunt), good barrel life and the (readily) available high BC bullets that are needed to reliably and accurately get to 1000. The 168 (.617 BC) or 180 (.659 BC) Bergers would be my choice for paper and hunting, and have been proven at 1000.

Although my LR rigs are chambered in Big Boomers (300 RUM and 338 Lapua), the 7mmRem Mag will be my next...
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:24 PM
Solothurn Solothurn is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdrenalin View Post
I am thinking of buying a long range rifle for hunting/shooting. I've been reading as much as i can find on this site and the long range hunting site. One of my questions is it seems all the info i've been reading is geared towards .30 caliber and bigger calibers. Would i be alright shooting something like a 270 wsm at long range. I hunt moose, deer and deer. Another question i have is there a factory production rifle that would be accurate right out of the box or should i go with custom right off the bat. I am looking to spend about $2000 for the rifle and another $1000 or a scope. I am not stuck on the 270, just not a big fan of really heavy recoil.
For the budget you have alotted for a rifle, you are miles away from a true custom. But given what you are wanting to do , yes I have read the entire postins so far, I think a tuned factory rifle will be more than adequate.
The 270 wsm would not be 1 of my first choices as you are extremely limited in what rifles are produced in this caliber, there is NO premium type ammo or components for the caliber either, which will be a significant handicap.
There is a reason that the 7s , 30s and bigger are used for real long range work.
Physics is most of it. Heavier bullets with higher BCs are easier to get predictable trajectories with, and retain velocity and energy further down range.

A 7Rem Mag in a heavier weight rifle is NOT abusive at all yet can easily be used to ill game at 1000 yards IF the shooter is competent.
The bigger the caliber the better the chances of clean kills at long range, hence the popularity of the big 30s and 338s for this specific task.

As mentioned the 7 Rem Mag has some really good bullets available, that are designed for match accuracy but work well in the hunting situation.
That would be my minimum caliber, the 300 win mag would be a step up and has won tons of 1000 yard competitions, so is know for accuracy and still has plenty of killing power available.
The 700 Police line from remington, comes in 7 Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag as well as 300 RUM if you really want a big 30.
They also come in smaller calibers but they would NOT be effective for killing game at the 1000 yard mark you hope to attain.

With minimal tuning the 700Ps are known to be 1/2 moa shooters and under the $2K budget you have.
To alot more $$ for optics would be a wise idea, mediocre optics are NOT something you want for long range work.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:46 PM
Canuck44 Canuck44 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
He is asking for recommendations,because he is not sure just what he wants.The reason that I suggested the 7mmremmag over the 270wsm is that there is a much better selection of .284" match bullets suitable for long range use.He did mention that he would like to get into long range shooting out to 1000 yards.In that situation,a match bullet is more suitable than most hunting bullets.Berger for one,does not even list a .277" match bullet on their site.
He did ask for reccomendations, mine is that his gut feeling of what he wants should carry some weight. I don't see any problem with shooting moose, deer or deer out to 500 yards using a 270wsm if the shot can be placed properly. Same goes for 7mm mags, 300 mags or any other number of calibers that will do the trick. I would pick the one I liked and use it.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:58 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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I don't see any problem with shooting moose, deer or deer out to 500 yards using a 270wsm if the shot can be placed properly.
No argument with that,but as his second post stated.

Quote:
Thanks for the replies. When i say "long range" I'm talking about 500 yards, til i'm very confident at that distance. Only after that I'd like to get into shooting at longer distances ( out to 1000 yards)
It's that 500 yards to 1000 yards that makes the 270wsm less than desirable for the reasons already stated.My opinion might not carry much weight,but I would heed the opinion of Rick from ATR.as long range precision shooting is certainly an area of his expertise.
Rick posted:
Quote:
The 270 wsm would not be 1 of my first choices as you are extremely limited in what rifles are produced in this caliber, there is NO premium type ammo or components for the caliber either, which will be a significant handicap.
There is a reason that the 7s , 30s and bigger are used for real long range work.
Physics is most of it. Heavier bullets with higher BCs are easier to get predictable trajectories with, and retain velocity and energy further down range.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by newdrenalin View Post
I am not stuck on the 270, just not a big fan of really heavy recoil.
With a statement like this I think you are going to have to do a lot of getting used to, before proclaiming you want to hunt or shoot at long range.

Perhaps you would be better served, learning how to shoot first, and gradually extend the ranges you intened to shoot at.

Take a look at most of the recommended calibers thrown out here, if you've got issues with the recoil of a 270Win., you've got a long row to hoe.

Understandibly the interest in long range shooting and hunting seems quite appealing, but sometimes you are better off learning how to walk before you intend to run a marathon.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:03 AM
Kutenay Kutenay is offline
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No offence intended, but, listen to what Dick is saying here and think about it carefully.

I have shot rifles since 1958 and have had assistance from some of the top shooters alive, world dhampions, as a young man; I am at best a mediocre shot and KNOW this and thus govern my actions accordingly.

I KNOW how to shoot, but, a lack of available and especially long range practice facilities has made it so my former shooting skills are now pretty pizz poor and you have to REALLY learn and REALLY practice if you intend to succeed at long range shooting.

That said, in your situation, the 7 Rem. is a good starting place and I would prefer a .300Rem. for general long range work, but, I habitually shoot .338WM, 9.3x62, .375H&H and .458WM rifles, so, am somewhat used to recoil.
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:17 AM
newdrenalin newdrenalin is offline
 
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First off, thanks for all the replies. Second , I'm not recoil senitive to the 270. The only reason i talked about recoil is that i got scoped by a 338 when i was 15. I'm 43 now and a little bit bigger (Lol) I think i'm leaning towards the 7mm UM now. Would a muzzle break and sims pad help much in the bigger 300's?
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by newdrenalin View Post
First off, thanks for all the replies. Second , I'm not recoil senitive to the 270. The only reason i talked about recoil is that i got scoped by a 338 when i was 15. I'm 43 now and a little bit bigger (Lol) I think i'm leaning towards the 7mm UM now. Would a muzzle break and sims pad help much in the bigger 300's?
Yup, it would help big time.
One thing about long range hunting , the more recoil you have the les accurate you are.
Braks and good pads go a long way to eleviate this problem.
On lighter guns it is not so much a problem - the problem with lighter calibers is tha amount of residual energy once you get out there.

A 308 Winchestr is NOT a long range (past 400) cartridge that leaves any margin of error at all, so I do not recommend it.
The big ones that I do , need breaks to be shot effectivle at long range .
if they did not help, the true long range rifles wild not be made with them
Cat
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:34 PM
asheepatthewheel asheepatthewheel is offline
 
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catnthehat what would you consider a good 5 or 600 yd rig....and what do you think of the WSMs??
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:36 PM
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catnthehat what would you consider a good 5 or 600 yd rig....and what do you think of the WSMs??
There has been volumes wriiten about long range calibers, and not just within the last few years either.
I have the first volumes of Handloader magazine and in it they they discuss the 30/378 Weatherby wildcat and its 1,000 yard capabilities.

However, any of the magnums will be fine, and for 5-600 the 270WSM is right in there as well as the 270 WTBY, etc.
Anything running a good hunting weight bullet (140 grains and better) about 3,000 fps or better will do it, and some less than that.
The BIGGEST variable - and most all long range shooters and hunters will agree, is not the equipment, but the shooter.

We have seen firestorms on all forums about "ethics" and " long range wounding" , etc .There is no difference , IMO, of wounding an animal at 100 yards than at 1,000 yards.
A gut shot animal will go just as far, and in my day I have seen a moose gut shot with a 375 H&H run for a very long way when hit at 120 paces.

however, with that out of the way ( for now) , I have done extensive shooting with all the WSM's except the 7.

I have loaded ammo for people that have killed moose past 400 with the 325, and deer with the 270 and 300 WSM's.
My own 6.5WSM rifles have more than enough accuracy and residual energy for those distances , and with a high BC bullet fly flat.

If a person were going to get serious abouyt long range hunting however, IMO you cannot beat the big 30's and 338's.
yes, I know people do it all the time with the 7mag and others , I have a friend who shot a moose at 900 measured ( on a map) yards with a zeroing shot then one in the neck with a 9Xscope.
BUT, that was years ago before laser range finders,etc.

The big reason I say the big guns is simply this.
A 338 lapua with a 250 grain bullet runs ABOUT 92" at 1,000 yards, give or take.
ii is ONLY 2" different than my 6.5WSM. with a 140 grain bullet, with the same velocity
BUT, when my bullets hit the steel at that range , it leavs a good mark.
When the lapua hits it, it DENTS it.
That is the difference.
Oldbadger , BTW, put 3 under 1MOA with that 338 at 1,000 , laying across a log, resting his hand against the log.
That is not as easy as some would have you think with an unbraked rifle.


Just something to ponder as you try and decide.
Myself, my caliber choice stops at my comfort level, and being one that hates to shoot guns with brakes, my long range distance has closed up drasticlly.
My long range guns are heavy, and 6.5 calibers, so naturally I will not go past 700 yards, I just am not comfortable with the energy level, even though I can shoot accurately at that range.
Hope this long post helps.....
Cat
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
My long range guns are heavy, and 6.5 calibers, so naturally I will not go past 7000 yards, I just am not comfortable with the energy level, even though I can shoot accurately at that range.
Hope this long post helps.....
Cat
Wow, that's some magical 6.5 you've got there. Sorry Cat, couldn't help it.
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:32 AM
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Just a question but why would you have to shoot a moose at 1000 yards? Sneaking up to within 200 yards of a moose is no great feat, getting much closer than that is usualy possible. In much of the province the habitat that they ocupy makes shots of much over 100 yards impossible. I think almost every moose I've ever killed I could have done it with a 30-30. I just dont understand carrying around a heavy rifle and putting up with that much recoil for a shot that may never come. Had a friend that had been lugging around a heavy 300wm for 9 years when I hunted with him, when asked if he had ever had to make a shot that required such a gun all he could come up with was that he had once shot a black bear that was a long ways away. I quit hunting with him cause he understandably did most of his hunting from his truck cab.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:14 AM
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Wow, that's some magical 6.5 you've got there. Sorry Cat, couldn't help it.
CRAP, I'm a "Merlin" with a 6.5 in my hands - not so much with a keyboard!
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:17 AM
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Just a question but why would you have to shoot a moose at 1000 yards? Sneaking up to within 200 yards of a moose is no great feat, getting much closer than that is usualy possible. In much of the province the habitat that they ocupy makes shots of much over 100 yards impossible. I think almost every moose I've ever killed I could have done it with a 30-30. I just dont understand carrying around a heavy rifle and putting up with that much recoil for a shot that may never come. Had a friend that had been lugging around a heavy 300wm for 9 years when I hunted with him, when asked if he had ever had to make a shot that required such a gun all he could come up with was that he had once shot a black bear that was a long ways away. I quit hunting with him cause he understandably did most of his hunting from his truck cab.
Where some of us hunt, getting to a moose that you want can be a litle difficult ( around swamps, etc)
Once he is down, you can go get him.
Many times they are so far away that by the time you get to where they were, they are just that - GONE!
Thse same people shoot moose at 50 yards as well, not just long range....
Cat
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Just a question but why would you have to shoot a moose at 1000 yards? Sneaking up to within 200 yards of a moose is no great feat, getting much closer than that is usualy possible. In much of the province the habitat that they ocupy makes shots of much over 100 yards impossible. I think almost every moose I've ever killed I could have done it with a 30-30. I just dont understand carrying around a heavy rifle and putting up with that much recoil for a shot that may never come. Had a friend that had been lugging around a heavy 300wm for 9 years when I hunted with him, when asked if he had ever had to make a shot that required such a gun all he could come up with was that he had once shot a black bear that was a long ways away. I quit hunting with him cause he understandably did most of his hunting from his truck cab.
Try sneaking up on a moose who is standing in a field being 1 full section of cut alfalfa that is only 4" off the dirt and that same section having the same topography as a pool table. We only had access in from 1 side and he happened to be on the farther end of said section.
I was in that exact scenario, which also accounts for my furthest kill on game to date at 1127 yards.

We ALL have different ways of hunting. Some prefer the tranquility of hunting off of horses, other prefer quads, some walk, some road hunt.
To each their own I believe.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:29 AM
Kutenay Kutenay is offline
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I would be willing to bet serious coin that 10x as many game animals are wounded and left to suffer and die, wasted and in agony, by casual shooter/hunter types, who drive the backroads "hunting" and I have seen a lot of this in my years working for the Forest Services of B.C. and Alberta.

Serious, knowledgable guys like "Cat" and ATR have the rifles, optics, loads and SKILLS to actually make lethal shots on game at extended ranges and are FAR more likely to humanely kill their game at 800M than most are at 150M, based on what I have seen in over four decades of hunting.

Soooo, I think that stressing proper gear, LEARNING/SKILLS and PRACTICE is far more relevant here than questioning the ethics involved....no offence intended, but, there is not enough concern for shooting skills in today's hunting, IMHO.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:03 PM
newdrenalin newdrenalin is offline
 
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Thanks for all the replies guys! Some of you seem to be very knowledgable, which really helps a guy like me. Also some of the forums on here end up being quite comical,when the arguements get started. I'm thinking of leaning towards the remington sendero in 7mm UM or 300 UM the a muzzle break. Do you guys think that would be a good place to start. Thanks in advance.
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