Alberta, the only province doing it wrong for decades

[duffy4]

Steelhead
I pay the AFGA and the SRD for a service. If I think I am getting rooked, you bet I will complain. Let them explain it to us.

So you are a member of the AF&GA. Then this is what you do. Take your idea of what you would like to see changed (in a short direct statement) and ask that the zone resolutions chair draw it up as a resolution. Then it will be voted on at the zone level and if it passes it will go to the annual meeting and be voted on by all delegates. If it passes it will be presented to the gov't with a request to make changes.

What area do you live in? What club do you belong to? I am the resolutions chairman for zone 3 (central Alberta) and I could help you write up a resolution if no one else will.

It is great to come on a board like this and air your complaints. But if you really want to make changes, action must follow. As far as I know there is no longer any "warm water fish organizations" to go through. So AF&GA is probably the only "lobby group" that may effect changes for pike and walleye. Trout Unlimmited works toward changes in trout matters.

Much of the money from your fishing licence goes to the Alberta Conservation Association.

Which is doing.....stuff!

Robin in Rocky

Originally Posted by duffy4

So you are a member of the AF&GA. Then this is what you do. Take your idea of what you would like to see changed (in a short direct statement) and ask that the zone resolutions chair draw it up as a resolution. Then it will be voted on at the zone level and if it passes it will go to the annual meeting and be voted on by all delegates. If it passes it will be presented to the gov't with a request to make changes.

Robin in Rocky

You forgot to add that, at the AGM you can ask for a SECRET BALLOT if desired.

[duffy4]

Well I was pretty sure thats the way the club manual read. And there is a reason they put that in the manual (though you probably would not understand that). But at the meeting the parlimentarian said they follow the rules of Roberts and it differs from the club manual. Guess the manual will have to be changed.

Sorry Steelhead for this minor side track but what's his name sometimes deserves and answer when he chirps.

Robin in Rocky

Originally Posted by duffy4

Steelhead

It is great to come on a board like this and air your complaints. But if you really want to make changes, action must follow.

I can't believe I'm reading this from you SB Duffy.

I guess it is okay to lurk in the shadows when the action is taking place, and then complain about it on a message board after.

Steelhead, be very wary of a man who does not practice what he preaches.

[duffy4]

I am not sure I know what chevy is talking about. But then I'm not sure chevy knows what he is talking about.


It doesn't matter what changes are made to the fishing regulations there will be some that do not like it. You cannot please everybody. However there is always room for improving things for the fish and the anglers. Changes just sometimes take a lot of time and effort to achive.

Robin in Rocky

Originally Posted by duffy4

Sorry Steelhead for this minor side track but what's his name sometimes deserves and answer when he chirps.

Robin in Rocky

I'm not the one named after a bird.

Originally Posted by steelhead

I guess thier "made in Alberta" plan maybee the plan that is killing our fishery. I never had and have no faith in this government or its accociated organizations (especially the AFGA) to manage our fisheries. You cant keep big trout in this province, why doesnt that apply to other species?


http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/415624


As much as many of these organizations and the SRD say thier helping, were still in the dump. 10's of thousands of fish in the under 18", and we are forced to target the 100 or so spawners in the whole system. Doesnt make sense.

steelio

I agree with you Steelhead.

The reality is our wildlife resources had years of neglect with Ralph at the helm.
We are continuing a downward trend with the current SRD Minister at the helm. If Ted has his way all of the fish and game resources will have a price tag attached, and be left to fend for themselves.

In my humble opinion, I think we need to restore some of the funding to SRD that was lost over the Ralph years. If we could bolster funding to SRD so that they might conduct the proper research, enforce the current game laws properly and truly manage our public resource properly things would be better for everyone. We have some darn good people working within SRD, and it would be great to give them the tools they need to do a proper job.

We (the public) need to take back our wildlife resource, and demand the government to look after it properly.

Originally Posted by wildman

great thread guys!!!!!!!!!!
alberta's approach to fisheries HAVE sucked for decades.
the fact we have 1/10th the water of any other provice should warrant way more strict regs than any other province has.
if it doesn't mean profits, it is ignored in this province.
that's the alberta advantage...pay and you can rape and pillage all you like.
i too have relatives in several other provinces and what BIGBORE says is true, alberta's fisheries ARE a joke compared to the rest of the country.
sad to see...

Hey wildman, I see you contradicting yourself here. Not a month ago you were targeting me because I was suggesting people release big pike and that a slot should be created, and now you are also agreeing with me. Did you change your outlook or what?

We are getting somewhere with this thread guys. Kyle, steelhead, and also a few other people (myself included) have been trying to spread the knowledge around so that we can produce better fisheries. I agree with Kyle, it is pretty pathetic that the anglers are already doing what is right before the biologists. And then the point made about fishermen taking action before biologists make it "legal"

Who needs to go out and kill a limit of whitefish, a couple perch, and a couple big female pike? Certainly not Albertans, unless they want to contribute to the depleting fisheries. Sure, if you're coming down from Edmonton or up from Calgary or something once a year, fine, take your limit, but it's a lot of the locals contributing as well. Guys "whacking and stacking" keeping their limit time and time again, filling the freezer with whitefish and pike.

Again, guys who are comparing Alberta to Ontario & Manitoba, it's comparable. (Yes wildman, THAT is comparable, fishing and hunting are not)
When you look at the big picture, Alberta has more fishermen per water, but like someone else posted, A good chunk of the waters out east see very few visitors. It's time Alberta takes action before it's too late.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Steelhead
I pay the AFGA and the SRD for a service. If I think I am getting rooked, you bet I will complain. Let them explain it to us.

So you are a member of the AF&GA. Then this is what you do. Take your idea of what you would like to see changed (in a short direct statement) and ask that the zone resolutions chair draw it up as a resolution. Then it will be voted on at the zone level and if it passes it will go to the annual meeting and be voted on by all delegates. If it passes it will be presented to the gov't with a request to make changes.

What area do you live in? What club do you belong to? I am the resolutions chairman for zone 3 (central Alberta) and I could help you write up a resolution if no one else will.

It is great to come on a board like this and air your complaints. But if you really want to make changes, action must follow. As far as I know there is no longer any "warm water fish organizations" to go through. So AF&GA is probably the only "lobby group" that may effect changes for pike and walleye. Trout Unlimmited works toward changes in trout matters.

Much of the money from your fishing licence goes to the Alberta Conservation Association.

Which is doing.....stuff!

Robin in Rocky

That is one heck of an offer , or here , if you want feel free to e mail Ted Morton yourself, Ted.Morton@gov.ab.ca as well cc,Ed Stelmach Ed.Stelmach@gov.ab.ca , I think for our future Fisherys they need to hear it from the little guy. Not the bioygists and all the other highly paid people . I think I made a posting before about this but I cant seem to find it anyway here is there E mails agian. I personally am going to E mail both and CC mr Stelmach , as I love the sport of fishing but to have the larger sizes of walleye and pike they need to limit the bigger size limits knocking out the bigger sizes as letting them have there offspring would be better , Id sooner catch and keep 3 or 4 smaller fish to eat and let those bigger fish go back spawn have there offspring and do it all agian next year , So as far as im concerned I will step up and take it upon myself to Email both these government officials by passing a step or 3.

John

[Turbot]

Originally Posted by TundraBuck

We are getting somewhere with this thread guys. Kyle, steelhead, and also a few other people (myself included) have been trying to spread the knowledge around so that we can produce better fisheries. I agree with Kyle, it is pretty pathetic that the anglers are already doing what is right before the biologists. And then the point made about fishermen taking action before biologists make it "legal"

Who needs to go out and kill a limit of whitefish, a couple perch, and a couple big female pike? Certainly not Albertans, unless they want to contribute to the depleting fisheries. Sure, if you're coming down from Edmonton or up from Calgary or something once a year, fine, take your limit, but it's a lot of the locals contributing as well. Guys "whacking and stacking" keeping their limit time and time again, filling the freezer with whitefish and pike.

Again, guys who are comparing Alberta to Ontario & Manitoba, it's comparable. (Yes wildman, THAT is comparable, fishing and hunting are not)
When you look at the big picture, Alberta has more fishermen per water, but like someone else posted, A good chunk of the waters out east see very few visitors. It's time Alberta takes action before it's too late.

Not just "out east", but BC has MANY times more waters for fishing than Alberta. While I'm on here- with Lac Ste. Anne,& Baptiste being catch and release for pike and walleye- why are we still allowing treble hooks?? Have you seen the damage these weapons can do to a hungry fish, even if they are barbless?? It does not make sense for catch and release to allow treble hooks, or bait. IMO!

[The Elkster]

Things can always be improved upon but I don't see the doom and gloom that some are professing. A fair number of AB waters have improved in the last few years and in some the balance has been changed by over regulation of sorts so one fish is doing great but others are being hurt. Misplaced regs can cause as many problems as help so care has to be taken.

Someone mentioned it being bad that we have to take action before the biologists do. Biologists are under tight constraints and the fact is that isn't likely to change soon...its not an issue of bad work its an issue of not enough money/resources to do the work. I would argue that its pretty sad that the average fisher can't think for themselves and be responsible and a little more proactive. Is there something wrong with keeping less than what the lake can sustain? Why should we need to be told what to do? I mean AB has relatively few lakes (common knowledge) and common sense says that'll mean more pressure which means the system can't support a wack'em and stack'em mentality. We shouldn't need a "specialist" to see that.

I think there is a good reason why a slot limit has not been used here. It would fish out an age range before they even have a chance to spawn. We have to protect fish up to a spawning age and at least partway through their most productive years which isn't necessarily their biggest years. Can one of the armchair biologists supporting releasing the biggest fish tell me that a big fish at the end of his life is the most productive and who's removal will have the most impact. Do they not hit a peak and start to decline in old age?

I'd say the best balance would be to keep certain waters as trophy status, keep some natural with conservative limits and maybe take a few high fertility reservoirs and make them high density stocked put and take walleye/pike lakes. There will be no perfect solution but at least that way every demand is partway met.

Also while I think its unfortunate that its necessary I think the tag system is a great way to manage certain fisheries. Very specific targets can be set for different size ranges and adjustment to allotments could be made year to year. Most importantly it would allow for much better enforcement. If you set a limit of one then people just get one drive home or back to camp dump it off and back out. One can also go out every day and get one if they want so over a year they still take many. With a tag its used once, clearly displayed and can't be recycled....good idea.

[Turbot]

I pretty much agree with Elkster's post on all counts. The main problem is not the strategy of the biologist- it is that so many anglers can't stand the idea of going home without killing a fish. Keeping a fish is reasonable on some waters, and probably even good for others. Catch and release if done properly is my personal preference in most situations. The tags are a good idea for certain waters. The problem on some of these lakes is that we still have to contend with the thieves we call poachers (some are actually proud of themselves). As well we still have those who are allowed to catch more than many of us would take home in a lifetime in their "square hooks".

[Don Andersen]

BIGBADJOHN,

If you are writing letters, make sure you copy your MLA + the regional biologist in your area.

TundraBuck,

Just don't spread a knowledge among the converted. Get an action plan together with the required info and get after it with SRD.

chevy427,

I agree that Govt should be doing it's job. Well it hasn't happened. AF&G for over 30 years pressured the Govt to increase enforcement. What that taught us is slamming your head against a wall only feels good when you quit. When enforcement was increased it was through private/public partnerships like Streamwatch which has nothing to do with AF&G. We now have enforcement folks on a large part of the Eastern Slopes all summer.

regards all,


Don

Thanks Don, you've provided some great information and links and I know you are all for the improvement of AB Fisheries. Shoot me a PM and we'll see if we can't get out this spring.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

BIGBADJOHN,

If you are writing letters, make sure you copy your MLA + the regional biologist in your area.

TundraBuck,

Just don't spread a knowledge among the converted. Get an action plan together with the required info and get after it with SRD.

chevy427,

I agree that Govt should be doing it's job. Well it hasn't happened. AF&G for over 30 years pressured the Govt to increase enforcement. What that taught us is slamming your head against a wall only feels good when you quit. When enforcement was increased it was through private/public partnerships like Streamwatch which has nothing to do with AF&G. We now have enforcement folks on a large part of the Eastern Slopes all summer.

regards all,


Don

Don sending a letter to Ed Stelmach is my MLA

[cooper]

Why make fishing so hard and complicated just catchum letum go maybe hit joeys only mother nature will do the rest . just have the time of your life, lifes to short to sweat the politics.

[Turbot]

Originally Posted by cooper

Why make fishing so hard and complicated just catchum letum go maybe hit joeys only mother nature will do the rest . just have the time of your life, lifes to short to sweat the politics.

Good words of advice Coops! (If only people would follow them.)

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

chevy427,

I agree that Govt should be doing it's job. Well it hasn't happened. AF&G for over 30 years pressured the Govt to increase enforcement. What that taught us is slamming your head against a wall only feels good when you quit. When enforcement was increased it was through private/public partnerships like Streamwatch which has nothing to do with AF&G. We now have enforcement folks on a large part of the Eastern Slopes all summer.

regards all,


Don

I know the AFGA has tried to lobby for enforcement.

What I was getting at Don, was I believe funding needs to be restored to SRD across the board. My comments were largely centered around supporting those in SRD who I think do a good job not only in enforcement. We need to change the governments attitude that any government portfolio is an unfunded liability, and get them to look after the resource we all own.

I commend the efforts of initiatives like streamwatch, but I can't help but wonder if the government views this as more opportunity to wash its hands of responsibility.

I know it is likely a pipe dream with this government. They have multi billion dollar surpluses in their budget and still want us to pay for healthcare

[duffy4]

Definately Fish & wildlife could use more money to more effectively manage fisheries.

AF&GA have requested more enforcement and various changes to management practices. and they have made progress in getting changes even if it took hitting a brick wall for a lot of years to achieve.

F&W has bought out a lot of small time commercial fishing licences in the last several years. Many outfits who have not renewed licences are now out of luck and cannot go out and fill the freezers of the family group with fish. There are actions like this that F&W do not publisize enough and so many anglers still believe that loads of netters are screwing up the sport fishing opportunity.

I agree that Stream Watch is a valuable program but if we keep "picking up the slack" on F&W short falls there may be less incentive for them to deal with some of these needs.

Robin in Rocky

[steelhead]

Oooops!!LOL,, i meant the ACA, not the AFGA.


But one thing I cant understand, and I still dont agree with the AFGA on this.

What right do they have to oppose what other groups are doing to improve fishing in this province?



I think its irresponsible for them to butt in on other groups attemps to do what they arent doing, when they are lacking in thier improvements.

As I mentioned before, Lots about hunting, squat about fishing from all the organizations that have hunting in thier title.

Steelhead