Campfire Debate_Ultimate NA Big Game Calibre Sans the big bears

[270person]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Does that mean that along with the 280 they ALL outperform the 270?

Nope. Just that the 08 sure doesn't.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Does that mean that along with the 280 they ALL outperform the 270?

Nope. Means the 08 doesn't and based on that, doesn't really deserve to be in the discussion versus others on the list.

But of course it's a newer, trendier cartridge and based on that alone it must be really awesome.

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by chuck

Doesn’t hold a candle? I’m not sure where some of this stuff is pulled from. My goodness.

It's called poetic license. I did it to invoke a response and got all three of you with one cast. Obviously the 280 and '06 are similar enough that the .280 can do almost everything the 30-06 can. It's not as though we are comparing a 7x57 to a 9.3x64 where the contrast is severe enough to put them in seperate categories.

I don't worship at the alter of the seven millimeter so I'll probably never understand why so many guys think it's the greatest thing since smokeless powder. If I had to choose one caliber for North America including the big bears it certainly wouldn't be a .284 anything. Not that the job couldn't be done with that bore diameter but it wouldn't be the pick of the litter.

Unless my name was Kurt, then it would be worthy of a shrine.

[270person]

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

I think the discussion revolved around 7mm's.

Now, the above does not mean that the 6.5's, .277's, .... The gist of this debate is something else however. It is about opinions on choosing a calibre with the best case efficiency, easy chambering, great overall killing power, ammo and brass availability, mild recoil and long range (500-600 yd) capability.

.270 is mentioned. As are the 30's. In passing.

My point is simply that based on the criteria given, some of the 7's listed are there because they're 284's only. Not because they meet the critera. The 08 and others are so far off the mags, outside of mild recoil, that they really aren't worthy of inclusion.

The 277's outperform some of the listed in every area outside of recoil as well but they're dismissed. Are we just trying to use up some bullets?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

Hodgdon's reloading data says that the 7mm-08 will reach 2700 to 2800 fps with a 150 grain bullet, same as the 280 Remington. So why does the 280 qualify as a 500-600 yard round and the 7-08 not?

Originally Posted by Chukar Hunter

True but as I said above, we are talking about a cartridge capable of reaching 500-600 yards. Standard 7mm-08 will not do that.

I have a very lightweight custom 7mm-08 and chambered it long with an extended Wyatt magazine and can launch 150 LRAB accurately at 2,900 fps which will reach 500 yards with authority. However, this is not a standard SAAMI 7mm-08! I named it LM7 (Light Magnum 7 mm)

Well you should take a look at the charts...all tend to say out to 500 plus there is sufficient energy with a 150gr pill...

[Don_Parsons]

I think they are all fine cartrages.

Yes, 270 is not a 7mm, but the thread does state that Jack O'connor is at this camp fire, so with all due respect his favorite cartrage might want to get drawn into this debate.

Why some folks might ask.

Under the 25.4 conversion factor what caliber is the closest to 7mm?

Hard to imagine that after all these years that no one has challenged the real math.

But then again what would Jack O'connor, I, and many others know about this.

Just saying since Jack is at the camp fire. LOL

Don

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by 270person

Nope. Means the 08 doesn't and based on that, doesn't really deserve to be in the discussion versus others on the list.

But of course it's a newer, trendier cartridge and based on that alone it must be really awesome.

I was just kidding. I don't think any of them is lacking anything in th 0-500yd range. No animal would ever know the difference.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

It's called poetic license. I did it to invoke a response and got all three of you with one cast. Obviously the 280 and '06 are similar enough that the .280 can do almost everything the 30-06 can. It's not as though we are comparing a 7x57 to a 9.3x64 where the contrast is severe enough to put them in seperate categories.

I don't worship at the alter of the seven millimeter so I'll probably never understand why so many guys think it's the greatest thing since smokeless powder. If I had to choose one caliber for North America including the big bears it certainly wouldn't be a .284 anything. Not that the job couldn't be done with that bore diameter but it wouldn't be the pick of the litter.

Unless my name was Kurt, then it would be worthy of a shrine.

Oh the irony..... lol!

[BuckCuller]

I don't mind recoil that much.
And recoil shouldn't be an issue if you only need to pull the trigger once.
I've seen some incredible shots made with the 7mm stw.
Me I shoot 30-06 and 243 depending what I'm after.
But hey anything will kill that's shooting a Barnes TTSX.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

I don't mind recoil that much.
And recoil shouldn't be an issue if you only need to pull the trigger once.
I've seen some incredible shots made with the 7mm stw.
Me I shoot 30-06 and 243 depending what I'm after.
But hey anything will kill that's shooting a Barnes TTSX.

You may only pull the trigger once at a big game animal, but you should pull the trigger many times to sight in and practice prior to going hunting. And once a person get's sensitive to recoil, it can take a long time to get comfortable enough to shoot the rifle with confidence.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 270person

Nope. Means the 08 doesn't and based on that, doesn't really deserve to be in the discussion versus others on the list.

But of course it's a newer, trendier cartridge and based on that alone it must be really awesome.

Have you shot any game with the 7-08?

[oldgutpile]

Was this thread about shooting the "big bears" or about lavishing praise on the O.P's chosen caliber?
I consider the average black bear as marginal big game.
Everything I have read on hunting dangerous game leads me to use the biggest caliber I am comfortable shooting. For some that may be the mighty "7's" but when I went out after the Alaska brown bear, the guide specifically preferred the 30-06 as MINIMUM!
The reason that so many of the Alaskan big game guides pack .375's and .416 cal guns, is to go into the bush after game that someone else messed up with smaller calibers!

[oldgutpile]

Oh yeah, I should have thrown in that I'm a big fan of Elmer and his thinking too!!

[Pathfinder76]

You do know what “sans” means right?

[Salavee]

I think the true test of an effective all-round Game cartridge is how well it launches heavy for caliber bullets. Being limited to light or mid-weight bullets is a major handicap for a one-gun, one cartridge hunter.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I think the true test of an effective all-round Game cartridge is how well it launches heavy for caliber bullets. Being limited to light or mid-weight bullets is a major handicap for a one-gun, one cartridge hunter.

I use one lighter for caliber premium bullet for all of my big game hunting, and I don't consider this a handicap in the least. There is not a big game animal in Alberta that the 140 or 150gr TTSX will not kill cleanly.

[270person]

Originally Posted by chuck

Have you shot any game with the 7-08?

No sir. I shoot 270, 7mm, and 35 W. If I decide to go a notch or two down from 270 it'll be a 25-06 ultra light for prairie hunting before the 7-08.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I use one lighter for caliber premium bullet for all of my big game hunting, and I don't consider this a handicap in the least. There is not a big game animal in Alberta that the 140 or 150gr TTSX will not kill cleanly.

It depends on what cartridge launched it. If it was an STW, or similar, I agree.

Using premium fuel in a pick-up wont make it a suitable gravel hauler.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 270person

No sir. I shoot 270, 7mm, and 35 W. If I decide to go a notch or two down from 270 it'll be a 25-06 ultra light for prairie hunting before the 7-08.

Then please don’t tell us how ineffective the cartridge is.

[oldgutpile]

Originally Posted by chuck

You do know what “sans” means right?

Yeah, chuck you're right. I'm busted. Should've read the title thread closer.
Just cant see why all the discussion on these glorified coyotes that a .243 should handle!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Salavee

It depends on what cartridge launched it. If it was an STW, or similar, I agree.

Using premium fuel in a pick-up wont make it a suitable gravel hauler.

A 120gr TTSX will work fine in a 7mm-08, or a 280rem.

[270person]

Originally Posted by chuck

Then please don’t tell us how ineffective the cartridge is.

Never said it was ineffective Chuck so untwist your thong. I said it doesn't belong on the same list as "most" of the other 284's you cited and gets it's arse kicked pretty much all day long by the 277's.

But maybe I'm out in left field and you can tell me how much more effective it is than what I shoot currently.

[Don_Parsons]

A 270 verses 7mm-08 is like splitting pigs hairs.

Just did the JBM ballistic calculater on the 140gr and 160gr bullets.

At most 50 to 100 ft-per seconds.

Don

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 270person

Never said it was ineffective Chuck so untwist your thong. I said it doesn't belong on the same list as "most" of the other 284's you cited and gets it's arse kicked pretty much all day long by the 277's.

But maybe I'm out in left field and you can tell me how much more effective it is than what I shoot currently.

First of all. You are guessing. Second you need to quantify how much better the 270 is than than 7-08 at killing. Then I can can give a rebuttal.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

A 120gr TTSX will work fine in a 7mm-08, or a 280rem.

However, it will perform better with the .280 .. depending on What and Where.
I think most of us have had experience with lighter bullets with a variety of cartridges .. TTSX included. There is a difference between what works "fine" and what works "best".

[Don_Parsons]

284 winchester verses 270 are pigs hair close to.

20 to 50 ft-per seconds.

Looks like they are pretty evenly matched from 150gr to 175gr /180gr.

Looks like the 284 has a fraction more ft-per seconds velocities then the 270.

This is according to the Hornady and JBM ballistic calculater specs.

Don

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Salavee

However, it will perform better with the .280 .. depending on What and Where.
I think most of us have had experience with lighter bullets with a variety of cartridges .. TTSX included. There is a difference between what works "fine" and what works "best".

And then the 280 AI, SAUM, WSM, 7mm RM, WBY, Mashburn, STW, RUM etc.

My question is, have you shot and killed something with one that you couldn’t have with another?

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by 270person

Now, the above does not mean that the 6.5's, .277's, .... The gist of this debate is something else however. It is about opinions on choosing a calibre with the best case efficiency, easy chambering, great overall killing power, ammo and brass availability, mild recoil and long range (500-600 yd) capability.

.270 is mentioned. As are the 30's. In passing.

My point is simply that based on the criteria given, some of the 7's listed are there because they're 284's only. Not because they meet the critera. The 08 and others are so far off the mags, outside of mild recoil, that they really aren't worthy of inclusion.

The 277's outperform some of the listed in every area outside of recoil as well but they're dismissed. Are we just trying to use up some bullets?

And yet by your own admission, you've never shot an animal with the 7-08.

[270person]

Originally Posted by chuck

First of all. You are guessing. Second you need to quantify how much better the 270 is than than 7-08 at killing. Then I can can give a rebuttal.

I'm not guessing on anything outside of "killing effectiveness at 500 yds" which was your watermark. I won't shoot at that distance. I'm simply saying that the 08 does not run with the 7mm mag Rem, not with the STW, and def not with the Weatherby so on a technicality it shouldn't be lumped in with them. It's a good piece shy.

A fairer comp to it is the non-sexy 270 which is still faster and carries more energy at every yardage incremental, including out to 500 yards with the same bullet. I would never attempt a 500 yard shot at game with either to be honest. Certainly not with elk or moose. IMO it's 100 too far for both, even on smaller game, even tho the 270 carries above the traditionally accepted and my self imposed limit at 500. The 08 falls under it.

I don't think any calibre that has a hold point 36 - 45" over at 500 yards with optimal bullets is proper but maybe thats just me. Yes I know that animals get taken at that distance lots. Lots get wounded too.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by chuck

And then the 280 AI, SAUM, WSM, 7mm RM, WBY, Mashburn, STW, RUM etc.

My question is, have you shot and killed something with one that you couldn’t have with another?

Lets put it this way .. Have I taken Game with one cartridge that I would not have attempted with another?, the answer is yes. From your list of heavy hitters, my choice is the 7 STW. I don't see a 7mm-08 listed.
What's you're point ?