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  #241  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:18 PM
JustinC JustinC is offline
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Originally Posted by TangoKilo View Post
Funny...

I thought this thread was about NOSLER ACCUBOND and PARTITION bullets?

Must be something wrong with me!
No that was on page 1 2-10 barnes
  #242  
Old 04-10-2010, 11:48 PM
sevenmil sevenmil is offline
 
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You are doing it again Chuck. The Barnes Bullet investors/directors are rolling their eyes and shaking their heads. The buck running a long way after being hit is not good bullet performance. If you hit the deer to high then I question your marksmenship as good as bullet choice.(did not expand) Mentioning that the bullet is good for not so "perfect situation" also tells me that you rely on the bullet rather than your hunting skills, or lack there of. (Swiss Cheese Mule Buck) Chuck, read my lines or between them, 98 big game animals (all by myself) 95% one shot kills, used stalking skills, get into position, find a rest, cross hairs tight behind the front leg, then squeeze. One thing chuck, your honest. Barnes are not a good expansion bullet. Lots of people reading this thread will be turned off by the Barnes, the minority will defend it.
It is great that you are always able to stalk up to the animal, find a good rest, let the obliging critter turn broadside, and ever so carefully squeeze the trigger. Ever try hunting moose or elk in the timber... or whitetails or muleys for that matter, and you sometimes just have to up and shoot? Sometimes there is no time for the textbook stalk. You just have to throw lead (or better yet pure copper) or not get a shot at all. Sometimes animals are actually running when you discover them,at least I have found. Maybe I am just not stealthy enough. Oh and yes, to those who think you're going to shock an animal right off his feet.............well some animals drop to the shot, regardless of what bullet you shoot. Some will run a ways and drop, no matter what you shoot. If you don't hit them in the brain or spine, it's basically the bleeding to death that kills them. I have seen a goodly number of Bison meet their demise, and I can tell you they are surely not too impressed by bullet energy. They can take a .375 or .338 slug and hardly show any visible reaction to being hit. They generally have to bleed for awhile, then they drop. Unless of course they are hit in the brain or spinal cord.
The original question at the start of this thread was asking if a Nosler Accubond or Nosler Partition was a better all around bullet for hunting critters up to the size of Moose. I have seen Accubonds and Scirroccos absolutely flattened on moose and elk sized game. At longer ranges they obviously hold together better. I guess in a perfect world you would just always take broadside double lung shots and it wouldn't matter what you shot. Last time I checked we weren't living in a perfect world, so I would take a partition every time over the accubond for elk and moose sized game. But I know that probably makes too much sense, so therefore I am probably wrong.
  #243  
Old 04-10-2010, 11:58 PM
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Shoot Berger = eat better
  #244  
Old 04-11-2010, 06:43 AM
flint flint is offline
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Originally Posted by sevenmil View Post
It is great that you are always able to stalk up to the animal, find a good rest, let the obliging critter turn broadside, and ever so carefully squeeze the trigger. Ever try hunting moose or elk in the timber... or whitetails or muleys for that matter, and you sometimes just have to up and shoot? Sometimes there is no time for the textbook stalk. You just have to throw lead (or better yet pure copper) or not get a shot at all. Sometimes animals are actually running when you discover them,at least I have found. Maybe I am just not stealthy enough. Oh and yes, to those who think you're going to shock an animal right off his feet.............well some animals drop to the shot, regardless of what bullet you shoot. Some will run a ways and drop, no matter what you shoot. If you don't hit them in the brain or spine, it's basically the bleeding to death that kills them. I have seen a goodly number of Bison meet their demise, and I can tell you they are surely not too impressed by bullet energy. They can take a .375 or .338 slug and hardly show any visible reaction to being hit. They generally have to bleed for awhile, then they drop. Unless of course they are hit in the brain or spinal cord.
The original question at the start of this thread was asking if a Nosler Accubond or Nosler Partition was a better all around bullet for hunting critters up to the size of Moose. I have seen Accubonds and Scirroccos absolutely flattened on moose and elk sized game. At longer ranges they obviously hold together better. I guess in a perfect world you would just always take broadside double lung shots and it wouldn't matter what you shot. Last time I checked we weren't living in a perfect world, so I would take a partition every time over the accubond for elk and moose sized game. But I know that probably makes too much sense, so therefore I am probably wrong.
To answer the original question, I believe that both are excellent bullets. One has certain trait advantages over the other. I know that the accubond has a
higher ballistic coefficient, thicker jacket walls, bonded lead core, polycarbonate tip, and generally a more accurate projectile. The partition does not offer any of these traits. The only signifiacate advantage that the partition has over the accubond is it's intergral partition, hence the name partition. The bottom/back part of the partition drives the front portion which delivers controlled expansion and leaves the bottom portion intact. There is no signifigent difference in the weight retention. Nosler have been around for a long time and have a great reputation and their Accubond would be my first choice of bullet followed by the ballistic tip.
Regarding comments on the Barnes bullets I will always stand up to what I know and believe in and I will never use Barnes bullets again in my life. I guess they have their purpose for those who have less confidence in the hunting/shooting skills and who like to break shoulder bones. They are a nasty bullet, meaning that they are the closest thing to a FMJ.
Regarding bullet energy, let me tell you something from the greatest teacher on earth. Let me introduce you to Mr. Experience. Not going into great detail, (KISS Theory) many times I have witnessed quarter size entry, interior and exit wounds. These animals dropped in their tracks and died instantly. That animal did not die from that wound channel, it died from the whole nervous system shutting down which was a result of a massive shockwave transfered from energy. There are a few people on this forum who read alot of books, but that is not the problem, the problem is that they they believe what they read instead of using a little common scense and learning from Mr. Experience. Ego and narcissism with some of these guys will be their biggest downfall.
  #245  
Old 04-11-2010, 08:32 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Regarding bullet energy, let me tell you something from the greatest teacher on earth. Let me introduce you to Mr. Experience. Not going into great detail, (KISS Theory) many times I have witnessed quarter size entry, interior and exit wounds. These animals dropped in their tracks and died instantly. That animal did not die from that wound channel, it died from the whole nervous system shutting down which was a result of a massive shockwave transfered from energy. There are a few people on this forum who read alot of books, but that is not the problem, the problem is that they they believe what they read instead of using a little common scense and learning from Mr. Experience. Ego and narcissism with some of these guys will be their biggest downfall.
I hate to burst your bubble,but contrary to what you would have us believe, you aren't the only person to have met and learned from "Mr. Experience".There are many of us here that have witnessed first hand hundreds of animals killed,and we have dressed those animals and seen how the bullets performed on those animals.We don't get all of of our information from books,but we do read enough to know that you don't need to know the bullet diameter or the distance to calculate kinetic energy.
  #246  
Old 04-11-2010, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sevenmil View Post
It is great that you are always able to stalk up to the animal, find a good rest, let the obliging critter turn broadside, and ever so carefully squeeze the trigger. Ever try hunting moose or elk in the timber... or whitetails or muleys for that matter, and you sometimes just have to up and shoot? Sometimes there is no time for the textbook stalk. You just have to throw lead (or better yet pure copper) or not get a shot at all.
Prefer not to take a shot at all in that situation. Not insecure enough that I have to spray the woods with 'copper' or 'lead' cause I'm 'scared' something is going to get away. Rather go home empty handed.
  #247  
Old 04-11-2010, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
Prefer not to take a shot at all in that situation. Not insecure enough that I have to spray the woods with 'copper' or 'lead' cause I'm 'scared' something is going to get away. Rather go home empty handed.


You're not alone in your thinking. I've watched alot of tails and antlers disappear into the bush without feeling I needed to empty my rifle in that general direction. I made my choice in bullets based on that line of thinking. One of the guys I hunt with always says, "As long as there's lead in the air there's hope." We always joke about who packs more ammo, but he also knows that I will always be there to help him out if a bad decision to take a shot turns into a sh!t show.
  #248  
Old 04-11-2010, 12:15 PM
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Can it be put anymore simpler . We all have different things we like, Ford/chev, weatherby/ cooper, Blonds/Redheads. Choose whats best for you and enjoy in the end its all about what we love the most. The Great Outdoors.
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  #249  
Old 04-11-2010, 01:14 PM
sevenmil sevenmil is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
Prefer not to take a shot at all in that situation. Not insecure enough that I have to spray the woods with 'copper' or 'lead' cause I'm 'scared' something is going to get away. Rather go home empty handed.
Who said anything about spraying? The best muley buck I have was running through the timber. He was close and I had enought time to throw the gun up and get on him. I guess if I was insecure he would have died of old age. There is usually not enough time to "spray" anything at a running animal in the timber if you're using a bolt action rifle. I have taken a good deal of running game and won't apologize for it. I am guessing sometime in your life you probably wounded or missed an animal that was standing still, as have I. So what's the excuse there? Everything was perfect but you still missed. Don't worry, I pass up shot's all the time that I don't think I can make. But if the opportunity is there and I think I can make it, I take it. But if you are not up for that, I understand. You do have to be able to think fast.
  #250  
Old 04-11-2010, 01:20 PM
flint flint is offline
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I hate to burst your bubble,but contrary to what you would have us believe, you aren't the only person to have met and learned from "Mr. Experience".There are many of us here that have witnessed first hand hundreds of animals killed,and we have dressed those animals and seen how the bullets performed on those animals.We don't get all of of our information from books,but we do read enough to know that you don't need to know the bullet diameter or the distance to calculate kinetic energy.
As I quoted, guys like you read and believe everything or have a mind set. You haven't read between my lines, nor am I going to paint by numbers for you. However, think of this for energy and where distance plays a factor. A 30-06 just fired a 200 grain bullet, the energy of the bullet is not equal at 100 yards as it is at 200 yards. Diameter plays a roll as well. Think of this, 243 dia. vs 500 dia. using a little common scense, no don't go to your books or google, which has the the most energy. Now be a little open minded instead of having a mind set on whatever text you read.
  #251  
Old 04-11-2010, 01:41 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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As I quoted, guys like you read and believe everything or have a mind set.
I was already accused of not having actually killed big game animals and basing my opinions on theory and not experience.I posted pictures with some of my kills to prove that I do have some experience on the topic.

Quote:
However, think of this for energy and where distance plays a factor. A 30-06 just fired a 200 grain bullet, the energy of the bullet is not equal at 100 yards as it is at 200 yards. Diameter plays a roll as well.
Obviously,you don't understand the definition of energy.It is a simple calculation that does not use bullet diameter or distance.It is basically a calculation of mass and impact velocity.

Quote:
Formula used:
Energy = .5 * weight * velocity^2 / 7000 / 32.175

Where weight is in grains, and velocity is in feet/second.

7000 is grains per pound, and 32.175 is acceleration due to gravity.

It can be re-written:
Energy = weight * velocity^2 / 450450
Now would you care to demonstrate where distance or bullet diameter appear in the equation?

Quote:
Now be a little open minded instead of having a mind set on whatever text you read.
I am open minded,but the equation for calculating kinetic energy is the same regardless of what text it is written in.It is basic physics that most people should be able to comprehend.

Perhaps you should either learn the definition of kinetic energy,or start using different terminology in your feeble attempts to prove your point.

Quote:
You haven't read between my lines, nor am I going to paint by numbers for you.
Thank you for sparing us from that.
  #252  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sevenmil View Post
Don't worry, I pass up shot's all the time that I don't think I can make. But if the opportunity is there and I think I can make it, I take it.
Good to hear. Thats a relief, got no problem with that. Just the way your post was written made me afraid that you might be one of those guys who just start blasting soon as they see something and figure if they blow enough rounds off they might even hit it. We've all seen them kinda guys in action.
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
Good to hear. Thats a relief, got no problem with that. Just the way your post was written made me afraid that you might be one of those guys who just start blasting soon as they see something and figure if they blow enough rounds off they might even hit it. We've all seen them kinda guys in action.
Actually, thank God those guys are usually "heard" before beeing seen.
  #254  
Old 04-11-2010, 04:59 PM
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Sounds like you are giving up on our debate.
Not really....I said my piece and you said yours...sounds like the end to me. Sometimes people disagree and the discussion ends that way. I'm happy to let it end there. Anyhow, I'd hate to see you get banned again.... So far other than a few condescending comments, you've been pretty civil. I like the new leaf....
  #255  
Old 04-12-2010, 05:57 AM
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Not really....I said my piece and you said yours...sounds like the end to me. Sometimes people disagree and the discussion ends that way. I'm happy to let it end there. Anyhow, I'd hate to see you get banned again.... So far other than a few condescending comments, you've been pretty civil. I like the new leaf....
They talk big and tough but get banned for misbehavior and they always coming sneaking back don't they?
  #256  
Old 04-12-2010, 08:14 AM
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Not really....I said my piece and you said yours...sounds like the end to me. Sometimes people disagree and the discussion ends that way. I'm happy to let it end there. Anyhow, I'd hate to see you get banned again.... So far other than a few condescending comments, you've been pretty civil. I like the new leaf....
I just knew that you would slide out the back door instead of admitting defeat or is it de-feet. I'm not surprised. After 14 years of law enforcement and training to sterotype individuals I stand correct that your narsistic ego prevented you from doing so.
As for your "coy" remark about being "banned" you gave it personally and I took it personally. I've been involved with APOS for seven years (professional guide)and received information what in your closet, however I will not stup that low. I stand most correct with my theory regarding energy and you Sir were most wrong to mis-inform readers that energy is a myth and it does not kill. Take a break from your texts, and observe your kill a little more closely.
  #257  
Old 04-12-2010, 08:21 AM
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I just knew that you would slide out the back door instead of admitting defeat or is it de-feet. I'm not surprised. After 14 years of law enforcement and training to sterotype individuals I stand correct that your narsistic ego prevented you from doing so.
As for your "coy" remark about being "banned" you gave it personally and I took it personally. I've been involved with APOS for seven years (professional guide)and received information what in your closet, however I will not stup that low. I stand most correct with my theory regarding energy and you Sir were most wrong to mis-inform readers that energy is a myth and it does not kill. Take a break from your texts, and observe your kill a little more closely.


LOL Nothing coy about my banned remark. You were banned recently by the mods for bad behaviour and I'd just hate to see it again but I see you are headed down that path. I'm sure you'll come back under yet another name......sad

You win...I admit defeet! Science and physics have no place in a discussion about ballistics or terminal bullet performance......
  #258  
Old 04-12-2010, 08:42 AM
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LOL Nothing coy about my banned remark. You were banned recently by the mods for bad behaviour and I'd just hate to see it again but I see you are headed down that path. I'm sure you'll come back under yet another name......sad

You win...I admit defeet! Science and physics have no place in a discussion about ballistics or terminal bullet performance......
What I find most unfortunate is that readers are being mis-informed by you not only on the energy subject but others that I read. I'm aware that few will agree with you on this energy subject, except for your band of sheep (no pund intented). I know that you are close to the higher ups and you are allowed to throw stones in the glass house, however not others. I stan most correct on everything I mention on the previous post.
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