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  #91  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:10 PM
Pines Pines is offline
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Originally Posted by Pudelpointer View Post
About which part? Chuck being grumpy from birth? I think I proved my case on that one...
YAAAA u did ..is this a birth ^^%$## and by the way do you own a 30-06
  #92  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:14 PM
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Sorry, no 30-06 in the safe. Never have hunted with one. Having said that, if I had to, I would feel more then confident in shooting ANYTHING that walks ANYWHERE with one; good bullet selections would be welcomed but not required.
  #93  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:24 PM
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Sorry, no 30-06 in the safe. Never have hunted with one. Having said that, if I had to, I would feel more then confident in shooting ANYTHING that walks ANYWHERE with one; good bullet selections would be welcomed but not required.
YA ok ..good for YOU and CHUCK cause that does not promote any new rifle sales ..good for the REMM and WIN 70..
  #94  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:24 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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About which part? Chuck being grumpy from birth? I think I proved my case on that one...
Chuck may be a little grumpy from time time,but unlike many people on these forums,he speaks from actual experience.He has put in the time,killed many head of game,and learned by doing things,rather than by reading about them.I may not always agree with Chuck,but I still respect him because of that experience.
  #95  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:30 PM
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Chuck may be a little grumpy from time time,but unlike many people on these forums,he speaks from actual experience.He has put in the time,killed many head of game,and learned by doing things,rather than by reading about them.I may not always agree with Chuck,but I still respect him because of that experience.
ELK ..I will say for a 34 yr old he,s being a little over the top as in BS and I don't need pics to proof a point ...MOOT not so much any more and I don't need an education from CALGY
  #96  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Chuck may be a little grumpy from time time,but unlike many people on these forums,he speaks from actual experience.He has put in the time,killed many head of game,and learned by doing things,rather than by reading about them.I may not always agree with Chuck,but I still respect him because of that experience.
Grumpy Chucky..ru kidddin me such an true blue joke ??? what can I say ..I wanna say that Chuck is not a hero and he will not promote a new rifle
  #97  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:11 PM
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ELK ..I will say for a 34 yr old he,s being a little over the top as in BS and I don't need pics to proof a point ...MOOT not so much any more and I don't need an education from CALGY
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Grumpy Chucky..ru kidddin me such an true blue joke ??? what can I say ..I wanna say that Chuck is not a hero and he will not promote a new rifle
Wow. So nice of you to share your opinions with us.

I gather from your enlightening posts thus far that you do not like people from Calgary, no one under ... what? 50? could possibly have an opinion (or experience) worth considering, and only the latest greatest offering from XYZ chambered in the 327 SuperTorqueMag is worthy of taking into the bush.

???

Pines, I do not really understand what it is you are trying to say (besides both "Calgy" and Chuck suck - figuratively I'm sure).

What point do you not need pictures to "proof"?

I did not realize that Chuck was up for a medal, nor did I realize that you could be considered a "hero" for promoting one.

As usual, I am confused.
  #98  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:24 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Great post Chuck.

Like Keg "Old Betsy", to me, is the 30-30 & 303. My fathers favorite expression was, "there's nothing like a well placed shot". He usually uttered this after an unbelievable shot with the old long barrel 30-30. I believe picking off a coyote at 400 yards with an old peep sighted 303 was followed by that expression. Killing a moose at 600 yards with open sights, on an old 30-06, probably prompted the same saying. My lesson learned was that caliber selection is surely moot if you can't place a bullet in the right spot.

For the last 45 years a 270 Win and Various 7mm-08 rifles have killed most of the deer, moose and elk that I have shot as well as a number of antelope, ruffies, gophers, coyotes, muskrats and beaver. A few deer, moose, elk, antelope and gophers were taken between 300 and 600 yards with both calibers.

I just recently developed my own 6.5 EXTREME wildcat and built a long range rifle capable of 600-900 yard shots. Unfortunately health issues forced me to give up big game hunting so I sold it to a very happy young fellow. He hasn't reported shooting his deer but did manage to hit a 3 1/2"X 3 1/2" gong at 960 yards that has eluded many aspiring long range shooters.

Recently I have concentrated my efforts on long range gopher shooting. Down to my mobility scooter but have the advantage of my 20 EXTREME that is regularly putting 40 grain V-Max bullets, launched at 3635fps with 22.1 grains of powder, into 1/3" groups at 300 yards. I know that a 222, 223, 204 Ruger and a 22-250 will do the job but there is something about a well designed, efficient cartridge that makes my day.

I agree with your choice of calibers and cartridges for big game hunting and agree that they are adequate for "normal" big game hunting as we know it here in Alberta. I do, however, agree with the other **** disturbers that cartridge and bullet selection for large bears, Long Range Big Game Hunting and varmint shooting are not totally moot.

Again. A great post and just ignore the negative comments. I have learned that there are those who love to agree to disagree and that there are those who choose not to learn from others experiences. That is their loss.
  #99  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:25 PM
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Nice read and very nice critter pictures Chuck. Although I have to agree with Pudel, I don't know who coined the phrase "convict scowl" but I'm pretty sure they were looking at one of these pictures when the inspiration came! LOL Just kidding, no offence intended.
  #100  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Pines View Post
Grumpy Chucky..ru kidddin me such an true blue joke ??? what can I say ..I wanna say that Chuck is not a hero and he will not promote a new rifle
I'm not from Calgary and will say I can almost guarantee I've put more money into the firearms industry than you. By a LONG shot.
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  #101  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:29 PM
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Default Awesome critters and a great read !

Nice post Chuck, bet no one calls you CHUCKLES though.
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  #102  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Chuck may be a little grumpy from time time,but unlike many people on these forums,he speaks from actual experience.He has put in the time,killed many head of game,and learned by doing things,rather than by reading about them.I may not always agree with Chuck,but I still respect him because of that experience.
Well said ELK. We all as individuals have a "go to rifle" and or caliber, Chucks is not my my idea of perfect but it seems to work for him and I'm sure countless others. Mine is 300 Weatherby, although I have never owned a weatherby rifle. I have shot a 300 Mag for close to 25 years and had spectacular success with proper bullets and bullet placement. I however have many other magnum rifles in my arsenal . Why? because as Townsend Whelan said "only accurate rifles are interesting" Or something along that line. Mine are all accurate. I may not shoot them much but a sub MOA rifle is hard to part with (for me). I have also owned and still do own a few non magnum mid bores, they all serve a purpose or will some day, especially as arthritis tells me magnums are not as much fun to shoot anymore. Do I think cartridge choice is moot? At this point in life NO.
  #103  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:36 PM
Pudelpointer Pudelpointer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
I'm not from Calgary and will say I can almost guarantee I've put more money into the firearms industry than you. By a LONG shot.
Hell Chuck, I think you have put more $$ into the firearms industry then I have into my house!

BTW, if you look closely here:



You can see what is (in Chuck's world anyway) a big, cheesy grin!

p.s. I have quickly come to the conclusion that Pines is either a returned banned member or a rather sad troll.
  #104  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:50 PM
Mxyzptik Mxyzptik is offline
 
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Default I missed that.

I did miss the "grin" .

My best buddy poses the same way when we fish for lakers. Know what he says when I tell him that it wouldn't hurt you to smile ?


SHUT UP AND TAKE THE PICTURE.
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  #105  
Old 11-24-2010, 06:06 PM
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What kind of groups does your 303 shoot at 500 yards?Can you keep a five shot group in a 5" circle at that distance?If not,I for one wouldn't be using it.
You missed my point, at 500 yards that 300 win mag would have been a far superior rifle, but in 10 years of hunting my partner had never had to take a shot that long. Very few people shoot well enough to benifit from the long range advantages of a magnum, fewer still actualy make shots at game at those ranges. Most people just seem to carry them around waiting for a shot that they never need to take and that they often have no buisness attempting anyways. If you dont fall in to the latter group congratulations, but I have met very few guys that dont.
  #106  
Old 11-24-2010, 06:12 PM
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And if it came from someone that had actually hunted the mountains and killed some elk,bighorn,and grizzly,it might even have some credibility as to what might happen on a mountain hunt.

I have spent my time in the mountains,and brought home bighorn,mountain goat,grizzly,and my share of elk.I have been charged by a grizzly,and made the shot when it counted.The cute little story might be entertaining,but it makes me wonder what the author would have done if he was charged by a grizzly.Would he have made the shot,or would he have wet his pants, missed the shot and become the victim of a bear mauling?

I made what was obviously a joke to lighten the mood of what was becoming a little bit of a heated thread.

There was no personal attack against you and not one doubts your expertise as a shooter, it was a little humor-nothing more.

Little man syndrome gets the better of you, as usual, and you respond with a childish response that the mods had to delete.

Today you again make a personal attack like a spoiled child, pretend to know what my expertise is, not only as a shooter but as a human being.

I am not getting in to a contest with the likes of you but I will tell you I have hunted in every province in Canada and the Artic. I get what I am after to challenge myself and see the country, not to prove something to anyone else.

I have been on my own since I was 14 years old. I worked in the north Atlantic and lived along the waterfront of Halifax and Pictou. My life has been on the line more times than your little mind could imagine and I can guarantee you I don’t "wet my pants".

Isn't it time you grab your marbles and go home crying again? You know, change your name and come back in a few months.

We will pretend we have forgotten what a joke you are, just like last time.
  #107  
Old 11-25-2010, 08:59 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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I made what was obviously a joke to lighten the mood of what was becoming a little bit of a heated thread.

There was no personal attack against you and not one doubts your expertise as a shooter, it was a little humor-nothing more.

Little man syndrome gets the better of you, as usual, and you respond with a childish response that the mods had to delete.
Actually using my name made it personal,joke or not.And I in turn made a joke of my own,which was nothing more than mentioning the name of a movie.Obviously,after someone whined to a moderator,my post was removed.It was removed,but since I was not contacted in any way by a moderator for posting the name of the movie,the moderator obviously did not think that a simple movie name was worth any more action on his part.

Quote:
Isn't it time you grab your marbles and go home crying again? You know, change your name and come back in a few months.
Yes I did leave the forum for several months.As those people that know me are aware,I have undergone a dozen eye surgeries in the past ten years.At one point a couple of years ago,I was to the point of being declared legally blind in one eye.The doctors advised me that it was unlikely that I would regain my vision at that point.As a result,I lost interest in hunting and shooting.I sold my guns,my gear,and I left this and other outdoor sites.Several months later,I underwent one last surgery in an attempt to regain my vision,and it was quite successful.I now have most of my vision back.
As a result,I rejoined this and other forums,only the system here informed me tat my old username was not available,so I chose another name.

As far as personal attacks go,your post is a good example of how to post a personal attack.But unlike some people,I am not the type to go whining to a moderator to have it removed.
  #108  
Old 11-25-2010, 09:40 AM
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Perhaps Chuck would prefer this post not be made, but it's not all about Chuck all the time,...but this time it is.

My first shotgun was side by side 16 gauge with a swollen left barrel. Dad corked that barrel so I wouldn't accidently put a shell in it. Ishot many ducks and partridge with that gun, that first year.

My first rifle was a 336 RC Marlin 30/30. Be it caribou, moose or rabbits, when that rifle came to my shoulder and functioned flawlessly everytime.

Over the years I have had so many rifles I really can't remember all the ones I have owned. I do know that I just bought my 6th 45/70 and that Remington, Winchesters, Marlins, Kimbers, Sakos, CZs, and others have all made their way through my hands in varying calibres.

Over my hunting life I have hunted with many people. I have encountered many more who were out hunting themselves and at various ranges and such.
So what does all this have to do with cartridge/calibre selection?
Of all these people i know, have hunted with and have experienced and talked with, wll over 95% by my esitimation, are limited by their ability rather the ability of the cartridge they are shooting. I would say this number is even higher when you get into cartridges with decent 400 yrd trajectories.

As I mentioned, I hunted exclusively with a 30/30 for a number of years. I have hunted with guys with 30/06's....303 Brits, 300WSM's, 7mm's, 8mm's, .308's, you name it. From my experience and from theirs as well, of all the animals we have collectively taken, a very small percentage of kill shots would have seen me limited, where the others were not. In fact, I would guess that 98% of the animals we have shot would never have known the difference if it were a 30/30.. 8mm or 300wsm.

After polling on other sites and from my own experience and stories of others, I came to the conclusion that the vast majority of all hunting shots, be it rams or mulie does, fall under 200 yrds. If I took Antelope out of the equation, the less than 100 yrd shots would make up more than 70% of the less than 200 yrd shots.

So having owned 8mm Rem Mags, 45/70's and .35 Whelans...I was often pressured to handload. The fact was, that I hunted so much with the 30/30 and bought and sold so many others, that reloading wasn't overly appealing. In fact an expensive proposition for rifles I would rarely shoot, or sell on any given Tuesday.

This past year when I bought my 7mm08 so as to 'broaden" by horizons, I was once again feeling the pressure to reload. This time however, I had bought a rifle that I intended to get the most out of and reloading seemed the way to go.

I gathered my equipment, read and researched. I was ready to start worrying about the lands,,,lol

So how does Chuck play in all this?

No doubt Chuck is a very big fan of Chuck...
debating with him is similar to trying to coax the tide not to come in. You may feel you are making progress, but rest assured you will get your feet wet at least twice a day.

Now should you want to get in a real arguement where Chuck will pull out all the stops, try saying something that sounds like "anti" mystery ranch propaganda, or God forbid, anti DN...or McMillan

He can be condescending, his back handed and front handed comments can be smug and often elitist...(This is all my oppinion and i have expressed it on threads with Chuck before,...ben there, done that, )

Now back to the 7mm-08. I needed a load, some advice, a bit of direction...

so who did I ask?

Chuck.

What was the response I got?

Good solid advice and reccomendations, quick answers to PM's, no BS about my basic simplistic reloading questions and finally, the load I hunt with today.

Puzzled?

No need to be. I have argued with Chuck and others on many occasions about all things under the sun, but there is one thing you cannot argue;

he is well experienced and educated on bullets, cartridges and rifles and LH builds in particular, this is just fact. everything else is just fluff that makes a forum interesting now and then and puts a personality to a username.

This was a great read and I would have stopped in any store, had I seen it in a magazine, sat back and read it.

Last edited by Arn?Narn.; 11-25-2010 at 09:47 AM.
  #109  
Old 11-25-2010, 11:08 AM
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another good post arn. seems like most of this forum has to be dealt with like a combine in the field, a lot of work to seperate the grain from the chaff, but there is some good stuff there, if you have the patience to process the crap to get to it.
i particularly liked the observation of hunter's abilities vs. the guns or calibres, i believe that is the meat of the subject that chuck was getting at, but it sure was a long road to get the point across.
i hope a bunch of the 'experience' here will show up at a couple rifle rodeos and maybe the postal match this year, it would be nice to see and gain some of their expertise in the real world vs the computer screen.
my take on the thread anyway, lee.
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  #110  
Old 11-25-2010, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lclund1946 View Post
I agree with your choice of calibers and cartridges for big game hunting and agree that they are adequate for "normal" big game hunting as we know it here in Alberta. I do, however, agree with the other **** disturbers that cartridge and bullet selection for large bears, Long Range Big Game Hunting and varmint shooting are not totally moot.
good summary

A quote from the OP then...
Quote:
In hunting situations where one shot is all you can get it does not matter if one bullet drifts less than another. Under read the wind and you miss left. Over read it and you miss right. Or vice a versa. A bullet that drifts less may help when wind is stronger than suspected and one subject to more drift may fluke a hit if a lighter breeze than figured is encountered. For most of us it’s palm reading at best.
open to so much interpretation, 'hunting situations'? i guess there are many 'hunting situations' that many guys wouldn't even consider 'hunting situations' lol...hey, know your limits right, the archery guys know that, the 30-30 guys know that, the chuck knows that within his, the long range shooters know that etc. etc. if its talking to newbies all the time then of course its great advice....title the thread, 'hey new guys looking for first rifle, here is my advice', but you addressed an open forum with this 'moot' shizzo lol

next....
Quote:
So the next time that gun Jocky hands you the newest and greatest magnum across the counter tell him thank you very much.
and to my point, rookies may not know what they want, your advice is excellent advice to people starting out no doubt, its the kind of advice that got me a .270, it turned out that my level of preparation goes much higher and in tune with whats currently available and not long after i moved up to a magnum due to necessity, i could not forsee the future so no biggie, was a good cartridge that i just out grew....like many out grow .243's and other popular 'starter' cartridges, i just out grew a normal one and tons of people do...so cartridge selection is not moot

now that is done....mk2750...hilarious postings, didn't see the original but the quoted one, some fun reading all around....i'll resemble the ++++disturbers statement, other great posts too(arn, narn etc.), all good fun
  #111  
Old 11-25-2010, 01:52 PM
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I have most of the rifles I have ever owned, and non of them are magnums or exotic.

I haven't hunted all the legal species in this area, let alone in this province, and I have no desire to.

I'm 56 years old, getting close to 57 and to me people like Chuck and Arn seem like super professionals. I really am out of my league in here.

I'm not complaining. Just feeling a little lost in this crowd.
  #112  
Old 11-25-2010, 02:01 PM
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Hey Keg, you're just a young feller. Some arguments are like peeing into the wind. Nothing changes and you still get damp.
  #113  
Old 11-25-2010, 02:35 PM
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Hey Keg, you're just a young feller. Some arguments are like peeing into the wind. Nothing changes and you still get damp.
LOL Thank you. With this crowd I sure don't feel young. But at least I'm not so old I can't hunt anymore.

I know what you mean about the arguments. The people I learned hunting from would consider most of those arguments insanity.

Dad hunted with a 303 Ross.
Howard used a 30-30 and later a HIGH POWERED RIFLE, a 300 savage, model 99.
Others used similar rifles. They thought a 30-06 was way too big for deer. I know because they said so.

They didn't take a ton of game with those rifles. But they never wounded an animal that I knew about, and they didn't fire more then one or two shots at an animals, most of the time.
They simply got close enough that they were unlikely to miss.

It's the way I hunt now. No fancy guns, no optics on most of my rifles. I haven't killed very many big game animals, not counting bears. But I have killed all that I needed to.

To me the super magnums seem like a waste of money. I'm not knocking them. If people can afford them and want to use them, have-at-er.


But I am rather concerned for the young folks just starting out. Some folks would lead one to believe that the mega magnums are the ONLY option.
Whether they do this intentionally or unintentionally I don't know. But I'm sure some young fellows take the word of such people over the word of people like me, and ultimately wind up afraid of their rifle because the thing kicks like a Mule. And that, I know from experience, having guided such individuals, can lead to some terrible accuracy issues.
  #114  
Old 11-25-2010, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
I have most of the rifles I have ever owned, and non of them are magnums or exotic.

I haven't hunted all the legal species in this area, let alone in this province, and I have no desire to.

I'm 56 years old, getting close to 57 and to me people like Chuck and Arn seem like super professionals. I really am out of my league in here.

I'm not complaining. Just feeling a little lost in this crowd.
Chuck, 209, TJ and quite a few others here are well knowledged in their sport. I am not in the same categoy at all.

I am just a guy who has hunted a lot with a 30/30. Meat first and headgear if it's attatched.

I am a new reloader, I love all guns, all calibres...

I have shot and used many different rifles, but only a handful that I would consider myself proficient with for the particular rifle or calibre,...
These mainly being the 30/30 win, 45/70 Govt. .35 Remington 22-250 and .22 cal. I have adequately shot 8mm RM, 223 wssm 250 Savage and a couple of others.

My biggest claims to fame will be what I do with my 30/30. If that's a rabbit at 200 yrds or a doe at 50...that's fine with me. If it's a 60 inch Bull Moose, I will shoot it, but if I am with someone else, I would most likely pass so that someone who truly appreciates that can take the animal.

The saddest comment I have heard in a long time was comment about league.

Chuck isn't outta my league, neither is TJ and they are not outta yours, .... they're just in different leagues, and within what they do, they are often at the top of their league, and that is to be commended.
Recognizing that we all have different goals and motivation, and that we are very much products of our upbringings and environments and such, it is very difficult to compare one another.

Some peoples goal is to get a huge buck. Others is to get one very specific buck and yet others is simply to fill a tag and have some sausage...lol

We all have much more in common than not.
  #115  
Old 11-25-2010, 04:31 PM
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This isn't the knitting club. There will be no giggling or tender feeling here. So man up girls and get back to peeing in each others Cornflakes.
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  #116  
Old 11-25-2010, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
This isn't the knitting club. There will be no giggling or tender feeling here. So man up girls and get back to peeing in each others Cornflakes.
X2

let's keep me entertained for another night shift
  #117  
Old 11-25-2010, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
This isn't the knitting club. There will be no giggling or tender feeling here. So man up girls and get back to peeing in each others Cornflakes.
Whew! I thought maybe you were going to get in touch with your feminine side or something! Hate to see a good man go down that way.
  #118  
Old 11-25-2010, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
This isn't the knitting club. There will be no giggling or tender feeling here. So man up girls and get back to peeing in each others Cornflakes.
hugs...
  #119  
Old 11-25-2010, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Arn?Narn. View Post
hugs...
Paaalease ...there is no real pro hunter to any part of this thread...lol..only a wanna be that is a a bit intimidating..ifin you wanna beleive his info and OPINION ..be careful
  #120  
Old 11-25-2010, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
I'm not from Calgary and will say I can almost guarantee I've put more money into the firearms industry than you. By a LONG shot.
maybe we SHOULD start talkin in private MR and see where the bear pooped..lol
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