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  #31  
Old 06-28-2020, 05:16 PM
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pikergolf pikergolf is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dielbo View Post
First off, the landowner can't "charge you with trespassing". That decision is up to a peace officer and crown prosecutor. The landowner has absolutely no say in that decision.

If a peace officer attends, they would assess whether any provincial law has been breached. If proceedings are under the " Trespass to Premises Act," RSA 2000, c-T-7, then NOTICE is always required.


Trespass

2(1) No person shall trespass on premises with respect to which that person has had notice not to trespass.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), notice not to trespass may be given to a person

(a) orally or in writing by the owner or an authorized representative of the owner, or

(b) by signs visibly displayed

(i) at each of the entrances normally used by persons to enter the premises, and

(ii) in the case of premises referred to in section 1(c)(ii), at all fence corners or, if there is no fence, at each corner of the premises.



There is another act called the Petty Trespass Act, RSA c-P11, which also requires NOTICE except for certain instances defined in subsection 2(2), mainly cultivated farmlands and/or that are fully enclosed. However, there are also public use easements to consider for accessing streams and rivers. Further, parts of that act have been found unconstitutional and it is rarely used anymore.

The law surrounding property and water rights in AB is complex, as there are multiple acts (Surface Rights, Water Rights, Indigenous treaties, etc) which deal with specific issues and are open to judicial interpretation.

In any event, in each case under the Petty Trespass Act, the question as to whether a parcel of land is " fully enclosed" or "under cultivation" is a finding of fact for each judge in each case. If the judge finds the land does not fit within subsection 2(2) then they must give the public adequate notice, ordinarily in the form of proper signage.

Further, whether the land is "deeded" is irrelevant for the purposes of both the Petty Trespass Act and Trespass to Premises Act. The only requirement is to be the owner or lawful occupier. The only exception being Crown Land, whether trained or leased or permitted, etc. The Petty Trespass Act does not apply to Crown land.

There is a tremendous amount of misinformation floating around about these matters. Always has been in my experience. Most lawyers do not even know these laws very well.

Note: I often see or hear of people referring to some form of special deeded land where the owner retains rights to stream beds. Those are exceedingly rare and only arise from former Hudson Bay Company land. I know that claims made by persons relating to areas on Jumpingpound and Dogpound have been investigated at Land Titles and in both instances the landowners were wrong. If one really wanted to fish there, they could get a copy of the title to pack along and use it to settle any dispute when a peace officer arrives. That said, if some nutcase assaults you or kills you, I'm not sure being in the right legally will be much consolation.

Further note: always clean up after yourselves on public or PRI vote land. "Leave no trace" should be standard operating procedure. Also, seek to obtain permission wherever any issue could arise. Most landowners are fine with it if you are respectful. They only want to keep out the *******s who litter and tear up their land.
From the Petty Trespass Act. Pretty clear.

Entry prohibited without notice


2.2 Entry is prohibited without any notice on land
(a) that is a lawn or garden,
(b) that is used for
(i) the production of crops, including fruits and vegetables,
through the cultivation of land,
(ii) the raising and maintenance of animals, including birds
and fish, or
(iii) the keeping of bees,
(c) that is surrounded by a fence, a natural boundary or a
combination of a fence and a natural boundary, or
(d) that is enclosed in a manner that indicates the owner’s or
occupier’s intention to keep persons off the land or to keep
animals on the land.
20
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  #32  
Old 06-29-2020, 10:53 AM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dielbo View Post
Thanks. I was lucky in that my Dad taught me to respect the resource and the land where you hunt and fish. Now that my kids are older, I usually have one or both with me when fishing and I want to set the same example. We were at Pine Coulee Reservoir last month and it was depressing to see so much garbage laying around. Someone had tossed their packaging (from lures) right on the ground, chip bags and monofilament was everywhere. The latter is not only garbage but it's dangerous for wildlife. Fish and birds can get tangled in it and it's also not good for them to ingest any. We picked up all of it when we left but I was annoyed that someone was so inconsiderate.

When dealing with property owners you always have to keep in mind they are the ones doing you the favor if they allow you on their land. So you got to look out for it and try and leave it as good or better than when you arrived. Pick up garbage. Let them know if you spot a hole in a fence or predators near their livestock, etc. Park where they tell you. Tread lightly.

Anyways, where do you live SNAPfisher so I can come over and fish? Lol. Cheers.
Good man! And dad

Near Devon so it is creek that connects to the NSR. So the traffic is not anglers which I would be fine welcoming those that are respectful. The war has been against quadders and trespasses in general (bad ones that is). Trespassing includes starting campfires, shooting guns (some semi automatic), and worse offenses including drug-use. Quadders want access to the creek to do whatever they please - night and day. That is all done and gone after years of fighting it. Fish are returning slowly - the odd small sucker. But, the damage is done and the section near the NSR remains unchecked. Truly a sad story and misuse of a creek that was once a thriving spawning bed for so many types of NSR fish.

Should also mention F&W officers as another group involved. They can add on some bigger fines then just trespassing. A landowner needs to address issues holistically and with support, including neighbors. Even those that don't support the same view. It's been a journey!
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  #33  
Old 06-29-2020, 11:21 AM
Sooner Sooner is online now
 
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Originally Posted by SNAPFisher View Post
So true. The one person I do allow on my land, and yes it has creek running through it, is about 25 years old. Caught him and his girlfriend and dog about two summers ago. I think I had him worried for about 5 minutes. We got to talking though and he was very apologetic. Now he texts me every so often when he is in the area to let me know. The one and only one person I allow on. Why? Because he is respectful and asks. No problem. And, I know when he is there. Again, awesome.

The stories I have... I've confronted I'm sure close to a thousand different people over the years. I have a database of the trouble ones I keep. One of the worst that comes to back to me, cop that showed up had to pull his gun out as this guy would just not settle down and was yelling at the cop, he was cuffed and hauled away. All in front of his two kids. What a "hero" to look up to hey.

Most end up as they should with a better understanding on the other party. But some don't get it.

Sounds like your one of the many good land owners. The ones I enjoy talking to whether permission is granted or not. We can ask, you can give your answer and we leave either way on good terms.
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  #34  
Old 07-01-2020, 03:25 PM
papidou papidou is offline
 
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Well, we used to fish there a few years ago and met one of the landowners/leaseholders while biking. Actually I had a flat tire and he helped us to go back to the 40. He was very friendly and ok with us on the road but told us he wasn't the only landowners/leaseholders...

So I'm a bit confuse by the all situation.

We use to go there because we had his authorization but it seems that we were not in our right...

Well, LKILR, how do you find all landowners/leaseholders contacts informations?

Thanks guys for all the informations, we wanted to go back there soon, but not anymore for now...
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  #35  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:52 PM
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Red Bullets Red Bullets is offline
 
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Originally Posted by SNAPFisher View Post
I have great neighbors too!
For the most part. I have had permission on quite a bit of the land you speak of, on both sides of your land on the creek. I know one of your close neighbors was letting a guy hunt on his land and that person was putting bait under his deer stands. I mentioned it to the landowner and the landowner got mad at me for accusing the guy he was letting hunt. I told F&W at the time and they didn't follow up for some reason.

You should be just as concerned about another neighbor that lets a bunch of bowhunters on the land he rents on the valley. There was one incident of an arrow wounded moose being chased by the hunters in a truck, right through another of your neighbors yards.

So right there are two neighbors that maybe aren't the greatest.
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  #36  
Old 07-05-2020, 02:12 AM
Ishpah Ishpah is offline
 
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Unfortunately those Albertan litterbugs do the same thing when they come to visit BC parks and recreational sites. Pretty bad in the Fernie/Elko areas at times.
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  #37  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:46 AM
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Bushrat Bushrat is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Ishpah View Post
Unfortunately those Albertan litterbugs do the same thing when they come to visit BC parks and recreational sites. Pretty bad in the Fernie/Elko areas at times.
Yes we pack all our garbage with us and dump it when we get to BC. Lived in BC for 20 years, it's much the same as Alberta, it's the local weekend warriors who dump the vast majority of garbage at these places.
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  #38  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:10 PM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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Originally Posted by Ishpah View Post
Unfortunately those Albertan litterbugs do the same thing when they come to visit BC parks and recreational sites. Pretty bad in the Fernie/Elko areas at times.
Ya, I’m sure it’s only Albertans who are litterbugs.
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  #39  
Old 07-05-2020, 11:12 PM
Ishpah Ishpah is offline
 
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Originally Posted by crazy_davey View Post
Ya, I’m sure it’s only Albertans who are litterbugs.
One and only. No BCer could get a camping spot because they are all pre-booked years in advance. Well, that was up until this year when BC Parks Branch shut down out of province camping reservations and refunded those that were booked.
I wll admit that there are some slovenly people from BC. North end of Monte Lake comes to mind. No out house facilities on that end and there is a large chunk of private land as well. Try walking across it. Human land mines all over. Mixed Alberta/BC turd. I tried to get some action to stop these downloads but neither government or landowner will step up.With increased lake level this year the lake is surely at a higher fecal matter content as the poo that was there before the lake rose will be either dissolved or floaties.
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  #40  
Old 07-06-2020, 10:53 AM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Red Bullets View Post
For the most part. I have had permission on quite a bit of the land you speak of, on both sides of your land on the creek. I know one of your close neighbors was letting a guy hunt on his land and that person was putting bait under his deer stands. I mentioned it to the landowner and the landowner got mad at me for accusing the guy he was letting hunt. I told F&W at the time and they didn't follow up for some reason.

You should be just as concerned about another neighbor that lets a bunch of bowhunters on the land he rents on the valley. There was one incident of an arrow wounded moose being chased by the hunters in a truck, right through another of your neighbors yards.

So right there are two neighbors that maybe aren't the greatest.
I'm believe I know of who you speak. One bad family in the area and well noted. He would love to open up the creek to all hunting of people he does know - kind of like the good ole boys club. And, given that he is renter, has no right to allow anything. He has been told. And we are watching him closely.
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  #41  
Old 07-06-2020, 07:48 PM
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Red Bullets Red Bullets is offline
 
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Originally Posted by SNAPFisher View Post
I'm believe I know of who you speak. One bad family in the area and well noted. He would love to open up the creek to all hunting of people he does know - kind of like the good ole boys club. And, given that he is renter, has no right to allow anything. He has been told. And we are watching him closely.
This is the best news I've heard this year. I would love to catch him in the bottom of the valley on a dark moonless night and adjust his chakras.
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This country was started by voyagers whose young lives were swept away by the currents of the rivers for ten cents a day... just for the vanity of the European's beaver hats. ~ Red Bullets
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  #42  
Old 07-06-2020, 08:19 PM
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LKILR LKILR is offline
 
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Originally Posted by papidou View Post
Well, we used to fish there a few years ago and met one of the landowners/leaseholders while biking. Actually I had a flat tire and he helped us to go back to the 40. He was very friendly and ok with us on the road but told us he wasn't the only landowners/leaseholders...

So I'm a bit confuse by the all situation.

We use to go there because we had his authorization but it seems that we were not in our right...

Well, LKILR, how do you find all landowners/leaseholders contacts informations?

Thanks guys for all the informations, we wanted to go back there soon, but not anymore for now...

I find the contact info on I-hunter.
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  #43  
Old 07-10-2020, 11:20 AM
papidou papidou is offline
 
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
I find the contact info on I-hunter.
Thanks!
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  #44  
Old 08-23-2020, 10:16 AM
ntsougri ntsougri is offline
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Has anyone gone and asked Depoli for permission to access Trap Creek this year?
I haven't been out that way this year but I plan on stopping by his ranch and politely asking for permission to fly fish Trap Creek with my son.
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