Minniwanka

[rem338win]

Pretty much have anything you can imagine. What works? Spoons, buck tails, jigs, cranks or......down riggers, flys, let me know!

[TROLLER]

Right now with the water temp still in the 50F they are in shallow 25fow and jigging a white tube skirt is the go to set up.

As long as temp stays down they will stay in close usually till early to mid July, then go deep with downriggers. I troll a hootchie but a willow leaf with a grey flat fish is good as well as large spoons,

[rem338win]

Thanks Troller!

[mokie]

AS I understand it you cannot use any type of lead at Minnewanka? Does anyone know where lead free jig hooks can be found?

[EZM]

Minnewanka is a tough lake to catch fish on ....

The lead free rule applies to lures and tackle under 50 grams in weight or 1.76 ounces

A few weeks ago we marked most fish at 70'-140' .......

I have quite a bit of experience fishing for Lakers - there best rule is - there are no rules for where fish are holding - use your sonar.

I have caught them shallow in warm water trolling on a planner board at surface when actively feeding and I have jigged them off the bottom in cold water ....... you have to locate where they are.

It surprises me how many people speak to water temperature as if that's the predominant factor and "holy grail" in determining where the lakers are holding, when, in fact, it's just one of a few factors determining where the lakers are holding - so use your sonar is my best advice.

Keep in mind ALL non stratified lakes (which will be almost all of the colder Lakes where Lake trout live) will have a constant 4 degree temperature below the thin surface temperature you are reading on your sonar. The temp is the same at 25 ft as it is at 400 ft all year long on bigger and colder deep lakes.

Lakers will feed on the surface pushing up herring in the warm summer water all the time as they aggressively and actively feed. They will also hold deep along a thermocline at any time of the year while other times will hug the bottom inactively feeding and meandering.

Find them, mark them and then go after them as appropriate.

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by EZM

Minnewanka is a tough lake to catch fish on ....

The lead free rule applies to lures and tackle under 50 grams in weight or 1.76 ounces

A few weeks ago we marked most fish at 70'-140' .......

I have quite a bit of experience fishing for Lakers - there best rule is - there are no rules for where fish are holding - use your sonar.

I have caught them shallow in warm water trolling on a planner board at surface when actively feeding and I have jigged them off the bottom in cold water ....... you have to locate where they are.

It surprises me how many people speak to water temperature as if that's the predominant factor and "holy grail" in determining where the lakers are holding, when, in fact, it's just one of a few factors determining where the lakers are holding - so use your sonar is my best advice.

Keep in mind ALL non stratified lakes (which will be almost all of the colder Lakes where Lake trout live) will have a constant 4 degree temperature below the thin surface temperature you are reading on your sonar. The temp is the same at 25 ft as it is at 400 ft all year long on bigger and colder deep lakes.

Lakers will feed on the surface pushing up herring in the warm summer water all the time as they aggressively and actively feed. They will also hold deep along a thermocline at any time of the year while other times will hug the bottom inactively feeding and meandering.

Find them, mark them and then go after them as appropriate.

The depth of trout is more related to pressure then it is temperature.

Mack

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

The depth of trout is more related to pressure then it is temperature.

Mack

It could be.

I know when the trout need to eat they go to where the forage is. On a lake like Minnewanka the bait balls (lake herring in there) were in that same depth range.

I've also watch them push a pack of bait fish to the surface and hold shallow in August on Pierce Lake. That weekend more Lakers were caught at surface compared to bottom jigging or down rigging.

[cube]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

The depth of trout is more related to pressure then it is temperature.

Mack

Interesting.
What makes you think that?
Do you have any references for this?

Thanks

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by EZM

It could be.

I know when the trout need to eat they go to where the forage is. On a lake like Minnewanka the bait balls (lake herring in there) were in that same depth range.

I've also watch them push a pack of bait fish to the surface and hold shallow in August on Pierce Lake. That weekend more Lakers were caught at surface compared to bottom jigging or down rigging.

i agree trout feed constantly looking for bait balls is a great way to find feeding lakers. would not consider fishing for them without a sonar.
i find checking the pressure will give you an idea of how active they will feed.

Mack

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by cube

Interesting.
What makes you think that?
Do you have any references for this?

Thanks

When it comes to fishing, most people don't give the weather a thought other than for their own comfort. But, the same weather that makes us miserable also makes trout uncomfortable and therefore, knowing both the recent and present Barometric Pressure in your locale can help you to pick a good day to go fishing. The reason this information is helpful has to do with the relationship between the atmospheric pressure and the trout's Swim Bladder (buoyancy compensator). FYI, the amount of pressure that the Earth’s atmosphere exerts as it presses down on the Earth’s surface is measured in units called either "millibars" (mb) or "inches of Mercury" (inHg) and changes in this atmospheric pressure (also called barometric pressure) cause the ambient pressue on a trout's swim bladder to increase or decrease accordingly which can make the trout uncomfortable. So, as a general guideline for the continental United States, think of 30 inHg (1016 mb) to be a normal level with 30.5 inHg as an extreme high and 28.5 inHg as an extreme low. Thus, because a higher or lower barometric pressure exerts more or less pressure respectively upon the surface of the water, the water pressure also changes in direct proprotion to the changes in the atmospheric pressure and therefore, fish feel these changes in their swim bladder. Consequently, a rapid rise or fall in the barometric pressure or an extended period of either extreame high or extreme low barometric pressure can make a huge difference in the quality of the fishing on any given day. Consequently, a slight change +/- of just 0.02 inHg is enough to positively or adversely affect a trout populations feeding habits. Therefore, it is very important for a fly angler to be aware of the Barometric Pressure in their locale and how it affects both the weather and the fish’s habits and to use that knowledge to their advantage.


Mack

[EZM]

Here's an interesting article ....

http://midcurrent.com/science/the-pressure-myth/

It basically says - from my interpretation - that air pressure (barometric pressure) cannot influence hydro-static pressure (water pressure) below the surface as water is 800 times more dense compared to air.

Sounds reasonable. Maybe Barometric pressure itself has no effect under water. Makes sense.

It's also plausible that weather changes (which often coincide with barometric pressure changes) can influence fish behavior - but the barometric pressure itself cannot be felt underwater as it simply can't overcome the mass of the water itself.

Interesting anyways.

[huntsfurfish]

This^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Fishslayer99]

I'm pretty sure Barometric pressure can affect a fish particularly the swim bladder. I would say from my own experiences that it certainly plays a role in fish behavior and feeding times before and after a front...pretty sure Mack is correct. I have been wrong once before though.

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Fishslayer99

I'm pretty sure Barometric pressure can affect a fish particularly the swim bladder. I would say from my own experiences that it certainly plays a role in fish behavior and feeding times before and after a front...pretty sure Mack is correct. I have been wrong once before though.

I don't pretend to be a science type guy but I do have 50+ years of fishing experience I have to admit not in salt water which that article seams to be based on. I've fished a lot of deep water lakes and have found fishing success is greatly affected by pressure change. I have read a lot of articles on the subject and it seams there is a lot of anglers pros and armchair pros that feel the same.Having Meniere's disease I watch the pressure closely . But who knows maybe I and many others have been wrong for years. But I'm also to old to change now....are you sure you were wrong once fish slayer or were you just mistaken. ...

Mack

[Fishslayer99]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

I don't pretend to be a science type guy but I do have 50+ years of fishing experience I have to admit not in salt water which that article seams to be based on. I've fished a lot of deep water lakes and have found fishing success is greatly affected by pressure change. I have read a lot of articles on the subject and it seams there is a lot of anglers pros and armchair pros that feel the same.Having Meniere's disease I watch the pressure closely . But who knows maybe I and many others have been wrong for years. But I'm also to old to change now....are you sure you were wrong once fish slayer or were you just mistaken. ...

Mack

Mistaken...that's what I meant, did I write wrong? oh geeeez....my mistake!

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Fishslayer99

Mistaken...that's what I meant, did I write wrong? oh geeeez....my mistake!

No .... No .... No.....

You were mistaken before but NOW you are WRONG.

lol.

Who knows - Fish behavior definitely changes with lake conditions - there is no doubt. What it's attributed to, I'm not an expert in this area but it seems that barometric pressure can have no measurable effect under water, according to science, simply because any changes in the barometric pressure can not overcome the difference in water pressure - I think that's what they are saying. Kinda like trying to dent a brick with a sponge (800:1 density difference).

Keep in mind any trapped air under water - like an inflated balloon will not relate to any barometric pressure changes in the air above the water if the balloon is below 30" of water.

Either way - interesting ....who knows.

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by EZM

No .... No .... No.....

You were mistaken before but NOW you are WRONG.

lol.

Who knows - Fish behavior definitely changes with lake conditions - there is no doubt. What it's attributed to, I'm not an expert in this area but it seems that barometric pressure can have no measurable effect under water, according to science, simply because any changes in the barometric pressure can not overcome the difference in water pressure - I think that's what they are saying. Kinda like trying to dent a brick with a sponge (800:1 density difference).

Keep in mind any trapped air under water - like an inflated balloon will not relate to any barometric pressure changes in the air above the water if the balloon is below 30" of water.

Either way - interesting ....who knows.

Science ... could be right could be wrong I'll put my money on the fishermen
As we know fishermen don't lie...

Mack

[Fishslayer99]

Good call Mack... x2 for fishermen!

[Kingfisher]

Interesting discussion guys. I have also been fishing for 50+ years and I too believe that barametric pressure does seem to affect the fish. I'm no scientist. Just a fisherman who has spent his fair share of time on the water. Both salt and fresh water.

I have witnessed fishing turn on right before a storm. Then after the storm blew by it was like the lake was void of fish. Did the barametric pressure change make the difference? My guess would be yes.

Back to the original question specifically about Minnewanka.

Troller you mentioned using a hoochie. I am curious, do you use a flasher before the hoochie to give it some action? If so how much of a leader would you generally go with? I know some of the guys that are fishing Kootenay Lake for large dollys and bows are using only an 18" leader behind a flasher to give the hoochie lots of action.

Any color combinations that work best? I know lots of guys use white tube jigs. So is white the go to color of hoochie? or anyone else have any other favorite color combo's?

[Mountain Guy]

While were off topic..... pressure change on the swim bladder?? Not sure what to attribute it to, but definitely causes something to happen. Maybe the pressure change cause too much downward pressure on the upper jaw

[joe_manix]

Great thread! Very informative.

[Mangosteen]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Science ... could be right could be wrong I'll put my money on the fishermen

As we know fishermen don't lie...



Mack

Very good comment. If the barometric pressure which is around 14 plus something psi changes 2 psi to be exaggerating, all the fish has to do is move up or down to the tune of .43 psi per foot to counteract any change in barometric pressure effecting functions. Just had to move up or down a few feet so this notion is ridiculous.

On the other hand wind direction is more important. ( related to systems coming in and you guessed it: pressure).

For Minnewanka last two weeks of June all you need to do is jig with a white tube at the end of the lake. Loads of them every year. June 25 is a day I always used to aim for.

You need the correct rod however to feel and set. Many times they bite and hold your tube jig but you would never know it. The action of your tube is key. Move it too much and no dice. If you don't jig high enough you cannot feel them. Calm water is paramount which is rare on that lake.

If the wind whips up just call it a day unless you love trolling in rough water.

Just jig in 25 feet of water is all but get over the school on your finder first. No need for down riggers unless you cannot get over the shallow schools.

If your pleasure is down riggers just troll parallel to shore staying at 120 feet total depth with your true vertical depth of your hook ( used to use just a spoon) around 15 to 20 feet off bottom.

Dangerous water as wind whips up strong and hard. You will need a twenty foot deep hull not a run of the mill lake boat. Water is dangerously cold if you should not make it to shore.

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Jet

The effect is likely real, the cause and reasoning is myth.

If the swim bladder was effected by the fish enough to cause pain, the fish would only need to change it's level a couple of feet in the water column to fix it in the worse case scenario (Tornados, big storms). They move up and down frequently anyway and can vent their swim bladders faster than it changes.

Or put another way, remove our atmosphere and that only equals 10m change in depth to a fish. (an oxygen depleted one). If you want to prove it, then do the math.

Pull a laker up from Depths, then it will have issues.

Any effect your seeing with barometric pressure will be due to things the fish can sense:
1. Sunlight
2. Rain
3. Wind/Wavesf
4. Water inflow

I.E. Barometric pressure is related to the above but not the cause.

For a myth it has worked for many fishermen for many years and still is. Not all fish are able to regulate their swim bladders not even lake trout at all time. Have you never had to burp a laker or hook a weight on him to send him down.

Mack

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Jet

There's a man on a bus periodically throwing bits of pink paper out of the window. Another man gets on the bus sits down besides the first man. After a while, the 2nd man can't resist it anymore and asks "Why are you throwing pieces of pink paper of out the window?".

First man says "To keep away the elephants". 2nd man says, "What elephants?"
First man says "Works well doesn't it".

Very funny ....but hardly the same if there were elephants before he started or after he stopped you might have a point. But being that many fishermen have found fishing by pressure systems effective I still stand by my comments.

Mack

[Mangosteen]

Now to the nitty gritty regarding pressure and fishing. What do the experienced fisherman feel the best and worst times are. Falling pressure ( low coming in and winds from east as the Low develops over BC and heads into Alberta ) means just stay home? Does steady pressure or a special trend of rising pressure make them feed. Funny but whenever a storm or low is arriving wild animals tend to move around more but do they feed more? You would think fish would be biting harder.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Jet

The effect is likely real, the cause and reasoning is myth.

If the swim bladder was effected by the fish enough to cause pain, the fish would only need to change it's level a couple of feet in the water column to fix it in the worse case scenario (Tornados, big storms). They move up and down frequently anyway and can vent their swim bladders faster than it changes.

Or put another way, remove our atmosphere and that only equals 10m change in depth to a fish. (an oxygen depleted one). If you want to prove it, then do the math.

Pull a laker up from Depths, then it will have issues.

Any effect your seeing with barometric pressure will be due to things the fish can sense:
1. Sunlight
2. Rain
3. Wind/Waves
4. Water inflow

I.E. Barometric pressure is related to the above but not the cause.

^^^^^^^^^^^^again

[Fishslayer99]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Very funny ....but hardly the same if there were elephants before he started or after he stopped you might have a point. But being that many fishermen have found fishing by pressure systems effective I still stand by my comments.

Mack

There is a very good article in the Western Sportsman magazine Jan/Feb 2014. That goes into great detail about how and why fish are affected by Barometric pressure and pending storms, and the more you understand this the more productive time you will have on the water. This however is about hard water fishing but I don't see why it would not relate to open water as well. (this is a small clip from a 3 page write up)

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Mangosteen

Now to the nitty gritty regarding pressure and fishing. What do the experienced fisherman feel the best and worst times are. Falling pressure ( low coming in and winds from east as the Low develops over BC and heads into Alberta ) means just stay home? Does steady pressure or a special trend of rising pressure make them feed. Funny but whenever a storm or low is arriving wild animals tend to move around more but do they feed more? You would think fish would be biting harder.

I find that the period just before a pressure drop or the very start of the drop are the best that's when the fish sence the downward trend and put the feed bag on to prepare for what is coming. Fishing in a low pressure is defenatly the worst for me. When the pressure comes back up bites will increase when the pressure levels out usually the bite will to. Fishing an east wind is just a day on the lake don't expect to catch anything.

Mack

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Fishslayer99

There is a very good article in the Western Sportsman magazine Jan/Feb 2014. That goes into great detail about how and why fish are affected by Barometric pressure and pending storms, and the more you understand this the more productive time you will have on the water. This however is about hard water fishing but I don't see why it would not relate to open water as well. (this is a small clip from a 3 page write up)

There is defenatly a lot of good write up on the benefits of fishing the pressure systems.
Have seen only one disputing it.

Thanks for the post Slayer .. will look it up.

Mack

[Mangosteen]

When the wind is from the east fish bite the http://www.woods-n-waternews.com/Art...n_fishing.html