Nurses to get laid off.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

I am not going to check the numbers you provided, but, even if you take your family example, in Canada a “family” pays $12,935; in the Arizona they spend $30,816 ($1,400 x 12 + $14,016). These simply the numbers you provided. I don’t know if they true, I didn’t check.

They also have wait times in the USA. My guess is they differ by state, but are probably lower on average than they are in Canada. According to polls, Canadians are more satisfied with the quality of service they receive from medical professionals (I can find a source, if you like).

What we spend on medical care is also tax deductible, not all of it though.

Interesting, I have heard there are almost no wait times in the US.

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

I am not going to check the numbers you provided, but, even if you take your family example, in Canada a “family” pays $12,935; in the Arizona they spend $30,816 ($1,400 x 12 + $14,016). These are simply the numbers you provided. I don’t know if they true, I didn’t check.

They also have wait times in the USA. My guess is they differ by state, but are probably lower on average than they are in Canada. According to polls, Canadians are more satisfied with the quality of service they receive from medical professionals (I can find a source, if you like).

What we spend on medical care is also tax deductible, not all of it though.

Yes, we do indeed speak different languages. Your math language teacher didn’t care to much about the students, and here’s the result: condescending communist sympathizers.
Nothing personal, only deja vu.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Interesting, I have heard there are almost no wait times in the US.

You know why? Because there are millions who cannot afford seeing a doctor (it’s a joke, but it’s true). Seriously though, they do have times. Wait times aren’t as long as hours, but they do have wait times. I will look it up.

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

You know why? Because there are millions who cannot afford seeing a doctor (it’s a joke, but it’s true). Seriously though, they do have times. Wait times aren’t as long as hours, but they do have wait times. I will look it up.

Those are called ‘waiting rooms’. Haha

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Yes, we do indeed speak different languages. Your math language teacher didn’t care to much about the students, and here’s the result: condescending communist sympathizers.
Nothing personal, only deja vu.

Lol. I averaged above 80 in math.

What’s wrong with my math? Basic arithmetics based on the data you provided. The rest was actual facts.

I will pass on the communism whatever comment.

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

You know why? Because there are millions who cannot afford seeing a doctor (it’s a joke, but it’s true). Seriously though, they do have times. Wait times aren’t as long as hours, but they do have wait times. I will look it up.

Funny how many of those ‘millions’ who can’t afford medical insurance manages, somehow, to afford big screen TVs and every kind of illegal drug they can get their hands on.

[expedition]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Yes, we do indeed speak different languages. Your math language teacher didn’t care to much about the students, and here’s the result: condescending communist sympathizers.
Nothing personal, only deja vu.

You realize your family,y of 4 in ak I assume 2 are children under 16 are covered in Medicare. Your insurance quote is 1400 a month for two adults plus their contribution of 900 (based on 450 a month per capita) a month taken from their tax to cover Medicare and medicaid. 2300 x 12 month's 27 600 as opposed to 9000 a year in Canada. Can you ask your capitalist teacher to verify .

[canoe2]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Not one bit. Looks like they need some outside people to come in and optimize their business. If any other business operated like this the public would revolt and they would go bankrupt.

This...

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Lol. I averaged above 80 in math.

What’s wrong with my math? Basic arithmetics based on the data you provided. The rest was actual facts.

I will pass on the communism whatever comment.

Let’s go together over my numbers, shall we? Ready? Ok, here we go:
AVERAGE american family premiums: $14,016
Now, SPECIFIC case: $1,400/month. Not looking for a cheap plan, but a good plan.
Still here? Got it? You’re welcome.

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by expedition

You realize your family,y of 4 in ak I assume 2 are children under 16 are covered in Medicare. Your insurance quote is 1400 a month for two adults plus their contribution of 900 (based on 450 a month per capita) a month taken from their tax to cover Medicare and medicaid. 2300 x 12 month's 27 600 as opposed to 9000 a year in Canada. Can you ask your capitalist teacher to verify .

I just gave you CONCRETE numbers above, not speculations. Arizona residents, and of other stayes, can opt out of Medicare and get a private plan.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Let’s go together over my numbers, shall we? Ready? Ok, here we go:
AVERAGE american family premiums: $14,016
Now, SPECIFIC case: $1,400/month. Not looking for a cheap plan, but a good plan.
Still here? Got it? You’re welcome.

From what I understand, US income tax is much lower than ours. Would it not be a wash then? Get a break on tax and spend it on health insurance?

[expedition]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Let’s go together over my numbers, shall we? Ready? Ok, here we go:
AVERAGE american family premiums: $14,016
Now, SPECIFIC case: $1,400/month. Not looking for a cheap plan, but a good plan.
Still here? Got it? You’re welcome.

You're not listening

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

From what I understand, US income tax is much lower than ours. Would it not be a wash then? Get a break on tax and spend it on health insurance?

Yes, but you have the option of getting the plan that suits you and your family, with faster access to services and no hidden costs.
We have single payer, but still have to pay for the ambulance ride. Wait 18 month for an MRI. A friend died a couple of years ago in the eleventh month of waiting time. In a competitive system you would have it done in two days.
I know somebody here who had to shut the business and retire because he couldn’t work anymore, waiting 3.5 years for a knee replacement. Different story in a private system.
Last week I payed $945 for an MRI, just to be on the upper hand side of things.

Bottom line, don’t believe all the propaganda we are subject to daily.
A free market and the competition is what works. You want to see anything go broke, leave it to the government.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Let’s go together over my numbers, shall we? Ready? Ok, here we go:
AVERAGE american family premiums: $14,016
Now, SPECIFIC case: $1,400/month. Not looking for a cheap plan, but a good plan.
Still here? Got it? You’re welcome.

I will do you one up, since you cannot express yourself clearly enough.

According to Fraiser, from the link Andrew posted somewhere above, The US government spent $9,086 per person in health spending in 2013 (this part did not depend on your brother’s decisions). That brings your brother’s family of four to a total of $36,344. Still with me, genius? Now we add their health premiums (the plan is not as comprehensive as you think that price, fyi) of $16,800 per annum. Reduce it by $1,800 even to bring them to 2013 level to make it consistent (I took the 1,800 number out of my ass, to clarify). So, you have $51,344 that was spent in total in 2013 for your brother’s family in the United States. In Canada, according to the same article, where $4,569 was spend per individual in 2013, a similar family’s health spending was $18,286.

Is this better or still hard to follow?

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Yes, but you have the option of getting the plan that suits you and your family, with faster access to services and no hidden costs.
We have single payer, but still have to pay for the ambulance ride. Wait 18 month for an MRI. A friend died a couple of years ago in the eleventh month of waiting time. In a competitive system you would have it done in two days.
I know somebody here who had to shut the business and retire because he couldn’t work anymore, waiting 3.5 years for a knee replacement. Different story in a private system.
Last week I payed $945 for an MRI, just to be on the upper hand side of things.

Bottom line, don’t believe all the propaganda we are subject to daily.
A free market and the competition is what works. You want to see anything go broke, leave it to the government.

I like it and I can agree.

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

I will do you one up, since you cannot express yourself clearly enough.

According to Fraiser, from the link Andrew posted somewhere above, The US government spent $9,086 per person in health spending in 2013 (this part did not depend on your brother’s decisions). That brings your brother’s family of four to a total of $36,344. Still with me, genius? Now we add their health premiums (the plan is not as comprehensive as you think that price, fyi) of $16,800 per annum. Reduce it by $1,800 even to bring them to 2013 level to make it consistent (I took the 1,800 number out of my ass, to clarify). So, you have $51,344 that was spent in total in 2013 for your brother’s family in the United States. In Canada, according to the same article, where $4,569 was spend per individual in 2013, a similar family’s health spending was $18,286.

Is this better or still hard to follow?

You can spend a million a head and still get crappy service, if most of that money goes into adjacent services and, management and crap!
That’s the whole point of the topic.

[expedition]

Originally Posted by RO CC

I just gave you CONCRETE numbers above, not speculations. Arizona residents, and of other stayes, can opt out of Medicare and get a private plan.

Medicare and Medicaid USA is coverage provided by the US government to seniors and the poor and per capita costs is 5000 comes out of income tax . Are you claiming some states don't provide care for seniors as enacted Linden Johnson. Take you brothers quote of 14 000 add 10000 . Then you can compare to canadas as 4500 per capita covers every one .

[RO CC]

And you’re right, english is not my first language. It is the third actually.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Last week I payed $945 for an MRI, just to be on the upper hand side of things

See, it’s possible here too. I know of a few people who did the same. I gather your brother would do the same down south because his deductible would not cover it, except their MRI costs more than $945.

And listen, I am not saying our system is perfect. Far from it. In fact, really far. But comparing to the American system and saying what they’ve gotten is better is... not sure what word to use here, no offence.

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by expedition

covers every one .

COVERAGE doesn’t mean CARE!

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

I gather your brother would do the same down south because his deductible would not cover it, except their MRI costs more than $945

MRI in Scottsdale $260. Deductable: $50. Tax deductible though.

[RO CC]

I am not totally bashing the canadian medical system, nor am I praising the american one. All I’m saying is that ours can be improved. And it has to start somewhere.
Cheers all!

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Interesting, I have heard there are almost no wait times in the US.

Took the very first link that came up in my search:
Forbes: Doctor Wait Times Soar 30% In Major U.S. Cities

Patients are waiting an average of 24 days to schedule an appointment with a doctor, according to a study of commonly used specialty physicians in 15 major U.S. cities.

The time to schedule an appointment has jumped 30% in 15 U.S. metropolitan areas from 18.5 days in 2014 amid a national doctor shortage fueled by aging baby boomers, population growth and millions of Americans with health insurance. The survey by MerrittHawkins, a unit of healthcare staffing firm AMN Healthcare, polled more than 1,400 physicians looking at average wait times among five specialties: family medicine, dermatology, obstetrics/gynecology, orthopedic surgery and cardiology.

...

The longest wait to see a doctor was in Boston, where the average wait was 52 days to schedule an appointment with a family physician, dermatologist, cardiologist, orthopedic surgeon or obstetrician/gynecologist.

...

Because the ACA expanded coverage and is one reason doctor wait times are up, it’s unclear whether reducing health benefits would have the opposite impact. A physician shortage existed long before the ACA was signed into law by President Barack Obama. Analysts don’t expect that to improve until more federal dollars flow to expand residency programs that are funded by Medicare, which capped spending on doctors-in-training more than 20 years ago under the 1997 Balanced Budget Act.

So yes, they do have wait times. Shorter than ours, but there are wait times. They still millions uninsured though. Wait times would be longer and perhaps comparable to ours if that wasn’t the case.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by RO CC

MRI in Scottsdale $260. Deductable: $50. Tax deductible though.

Seems cheap. Is it the same what you had done? It depends on what you need, prices vary.

Edit: I found that an average price is $2,600 down south and varies from $400 to $30,000, depending on what needs to be done.

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Took the very first link that came up in my search:
Forbes: Doctor Wait Times Soar 30% In Major U.S. Cities



So yes, they do have wait times. Shorter than ours, but there are wait times. They still millions uninsured though. Wait times would be longer and perhaps comparable to ours if that wasn’t the case.

That is what happens where you try to implement a single payer, centralized system.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by RO CC

That is what happens where you try to implement a single payer, centralized system.

Lol. Because people can actually go and see a doctor when they think they need to?

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Seems cheap. Is it the same what you had done? It depends on what you need, prices vary.

Edit: I found that an average price is $2,600 down south and varies from $400 to $30,000, depending on what needs to be done.

The exact same one, my friend. I was even considering having it done down there and make it into a visit with them too.
A few years back I did go to the Mayo Clinic for 7 hrs of tests because I had waited here almost 2 years for the final results to my leukaemia diagnosis. Which proved negative, thanks God, but I just couldn’t wait anymore. Total bill after tax: $7,400. Somehow my file got lost in the sustem here...

[expedition]

Originally Posted by RO CC

COVERAGE doesn’t mean CARE!

Way to troll

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Lol. Because people can actually go and see a doctor when they think they need to?

Yes, because you are being stripped of the option of seeing who you want, and the system gets lazy, knowing that their clientele is assured by the government.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Which proved negative, thanks God

Congrats with dodging that bullet!