Nurses to get laid off.

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Congrats with dodging that bullet!

Yup, that was one of them I’ve dodged in my life, thanks! Another one scraped my shoulder in ‘89. 50 cal. The commies were mowing us down in the Opera Square.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Yes, because you are being stripped of the option of seeing who you want, and the system gets lazy, knowing that their clientele is assured by the government.

Otherwise, people are stripped of the ability to see a doctor altogether. Like I said our system desires to be much better, I agree. Theirs even more so though. We may disagree on that an it’s fine. We are all entitled to our opinions even when we are wrong

We may have taken this thread further than the OP anticipated though, so I am going to say that firing nurses, which we presumably have a shortage of and will definitely need more in the future, is not a way to fix our system.

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Otherwise, people are stripped of the ability to see a doctor altogether. Like I said our system desires to be much better, I agree. Theirs even more so though. We may disagree on that an it’s fine. We are all entitled to our opinions even when we are wrong

We may have taken this thread further than the OP anticipated though, so I am going to say that firing nurses, which we presumably have a shortage of and will definitely need more in the future, is not a way to fix our system.

You are right, but Jason Kenney didn’t fire anybody. AHS will, without saying they will fire one single office positions. That’s what’s fishy.

[fishnguy]

CTV News: Thousands of public jobs to be eliminated by 2023, Alberta government tells unions

He addressed the anticipated nursing staff reduction on Friday while speaking from an event in Lake Louise.

"We’ve always been clear that getting our province’s finances back in order will require a reduction in the overall size of the public service and we hope to achieve that primarily through attrition," Kenney said.

He knows exactly what is going on.

[RO CC]

“The elimination of that many [Registered Nurse] and [Registered Psychiatric Nurse] FTEs, equivalent to over a million fewer hours of care, will mean more than 750 front-line Registered Nurses will be laid off," UNA said in a news release.”

Exactly my point, are the nurses the only ones AHS can dispose of?

[58thecat]

That's too bad now the rest will be really over worked....they bust thier butts already, many eat up shifts due to sick days etc but now this is going to be a poop show for sure which will lead to burn out etc....will only get worse if this is true.

[bessiedog]

Bottom line, don’t believe all the propaganda we are subject to daily.
A free market and the competition is what works. You want to see anything go broke, leave it to the government.[/QUOTE]

....... riiiight.... your so obsessed with your side that you actually believe all the propeganda from the other side..... too funny. Oh wait..... ‘your’ side doesn’t use dat stuff...

You my friend are indoctrinated. Doesn’t matter which ‘side’ your on.... drinking cool aid is just plain u healthy for individuals and society.

Most seem to forget.... we had private medical care until the 1960s....
It was the WEST , that hotbed of capitalism that decided socialized medicine was the best idea....

Socialized medicine simply needs proper oversite for efficiencies ..... by temporary managers so that no fat can accumulate on the top.

Make upper management well paid 5 year terms. No repeats terms.


Speaking of Medicare..... anyone got hangover remedies again.....? Ugh

[CBintheNorth]

People start rolling and just like a train, don't stop.

I think the point most are trying to make is that cuts are needed. EVERYWHERE.
You can't have a severely decimated and shrinking private sector (tax base) and leave all of the social programs and public-funded benefits in tact.
ALL sectors must make financial adjustments.
Sadly, that also means the 2 public sectors we value most: education and health care.
It's just sad to see that the pigs at the trough who are making the decisions within the school board and AHS aren't trimming any of the fat that's high on the hog.

Anyone read Animal Farm?

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Socialized medicine simply needs proper oversite for efficiencies ..... by temporary managers so that no fat can accumulate on the top.

Make upper management well paid 5 year terms. No repeats terms.

Geez, that’s the best idea I heard on here in a looong time!

Maybe 3 years to coincide with elections

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

You know why? Because there are millions who cannot afford seeing a doctor (it’s a joke, but it’s true)

No joke. I have a cousin who was a doctor in the southeastern states. He quit and moved back to Ontario. He gets less pay but he said he could no longer stand having desperate folks walk into his clinic with serious illnesses that were long past being treatable. Most could have been treated and cured had they come in when they were first sick, but they had no money to pay so they couldn't go. When they got sick enough that they no longer cared about not having money to pay it was far too late.

[britman101]

Under the notice that was given everyone seems so fixated on the nurse layoffs. But the government is poised to privatize parts of the healthcare system in Alberta. Looks like 850 full time lab jobs will now be taken over by a private lab company. If the current workers do not get rehired by the private company they will be hitting the unemployment lines. And only time will tell if this makes sense or was a service that should have been left alone. Because doctors base a lot of their decisions on lab results.

[amosfella]

What's interesting about all this is that Kenney increased AHS budget by $200 million. As far as I can tell, that's a greater increase than the whole of the four NDP years. Then when he announced an audit/forensic accounting of AHS by Ernst and Young is when all the talks of layoffs of nurses, Rachel joining protests, etc started.

Me thinks that Rachel is covering for herself, her hubby, and some highly paid friends that might find themselves in both civil and criminal trouble.

For greater clarity, AHS is not a government department. They are a services agency that gets a contract to provide services on behalf of the government of Alberta. AHS made the decision to cut the nurses, not the government.

[pittman]

Glad you guys are looking at stats more carefully. They always tell you something but you have to read between the lines to determine exactly what that is.

CIHI is an arms-length federally funded program that does have some excellent statistics for public access.

Couple more facts for you that you might find interesting.

1. The US does spend the most per-capita on health care in the developed world. Multiple sources.
2. The proportion of health care expenditures allocated to administration is the highest in the US. Having multiple payers (ie insurance companies) drastically increases the amount of administrative time spent on chasing money down. last I recall this was 27% in the US, most other developed countries it was less than 10%.
3. For outcomes, the US lags drastically behind most other developed countries. In health care common benchmarks include infant mortality and life expectancy. Choose any source you would like for this - Wikipedia is fine.

In any case, it's easy to pick on the US because it's a for-profit medical system. In Canada (and most other countries) we have looked at health care differently. That said, there is a TON of room for improvement within the Canadian system that can both save money, and improve things for Canadians using the system.

Keep in mind, the system in Canada is balancing tax payer output with health care performance. It's easy to gripe when you have to wait 6 months for an MRI for something non-urgent and sit back and compare to how fast you could get it if you were to pay but remember, the Canadian system isn't designed to generate a profit.

On the other end of the spectrum, the services offered here in Canada are both world-class and evidence based. If you are sick, and I mean truly in need of health care, you get what you need immediately. You may read about new and novel therapies available elsewhere in the world that seem promising but if you follow them long enough you'll find that they offer no improvement. Be happy knowing that your health care system hasn't invested valuable taxpayer money in a novel therapy without a sound track record.

[hogie]

Article from Danielle Smith, bit of insight to overtime pay. From Calgary Herald.


I’m prepared to cut the government of Alberta a lot of slack in its first steps toward balancing the budget. I will not be moaning about any of the cuts in the budget. I reserve the right to bring back certain issues for discussion when we aren’t broke (like re-indexing income tax brackets). But for now, I say bravo to the premier and his finance minister for charting a path to balance in four years. We will have a clear target to judge the UCP in the next election.

My concern is that they are not going far enough fast enough and, by exempting health and education from the knife, they aren’t looking for savings in the right places.

Here’s an example. A battle is taking shape with the Alberta Union of Provincial Employees lead by the formidable Guy Smith. The government*wants a two per cent wage rollback,*the AUPE wants a 7.85 per*cent wage increase. They are both wrong.

The AUPE is wrong because it is absurd to think that any employee group is going to get anything more than an inflationary increase in the middle of this mess. But the government is wrong because some AUPE workers should get a higher wage cut than others.

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation used access to information requests*to find out how much various government workers make in Alberta, compared with Ontario and the other western provinces. They found, for instance, that judicial clerks and transport officers make less than the average elsewhere. They probably deserve an increase when we can afford it. Occupational Health and Safety officers, meanwhile, make 34 per cent more than in other provinces. They should be rolled back much more than two per cent. *

But there is an even bigger problem in collective agreements that needs addressing. That’s the issue of overtime pay.

In the private sector world, salaried employees are often asked to work extra hours without extra pay. If overtime is paid, it is only after an employee has worked 40 hours in the week, and most of the time the hours are simply banked and taken as time off at a mutually agreed upon time. Any manager worth their salt is expected to keep overtime costs as low as possible.

That is not the case at Alberta Health Services, where absurd provisions in collective agreements have allowed nurses to work the system to their advantage and get paid tens of thousands of dollars in additional overtime pay.

Whistleblower “Tim” was kind enough to email me to explain how it works. For registered nurses, the duty roster for “on-call duty” has to be posted 12 weeks in advance. If an employer changes the on-call period they have to give 14 days’ notice, otherwise they have to pay the employee double time (even if they haven’t put in 40 hours that week). When a regular or temporary employee who is not on-call is called and required to report to work, they are also deemed to be working overtime and paid at double time (again even if they haven’t put in 40 hours that week.) Ever wonder why there are so many casual and part-time RNs? It’s because overtime allows them to make full-time pay working part-time hours.

The maximum compensation for a registered nurse on an hourly basis is $58.81, which translates into an annual wage of $112,974. (According to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation*that is already 12.4 per cent higher than the average in Ontario and other western provinces.)

The AHS sunshine list*reports all employees in 2018 who earned more than $129,800. In theory, if the top nurse is paid $112,974, there shouldn’t be any nurses on this list, right?

But in 2018 alone there were 513 registered nurses making more than $129,800. The top paid RN in 2018 made $217,713. That means she is probably making more in overtime pay than she is in regular pay. Granted, that is an extreme example. But there are 30,000 RNs in Alberta — how many of them are working overtime on a routine basis and getting paid an extra $10,000, $20,000 or $30,000 a year? How many hundreds of millions of dollars is this costing taxpayers?

A two per cent wage cut will not fix this problem.

If the government wants to find out why the Alberta public sector costs so much, it should ask every manager to report on how much overtime they paid their staff last year. That’s the place to start the cuts.

Danielle Smith can be reached at*danielle@770chqr.com

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by RO CC

You are right, but Jason Kenney didn’t fire anybody. AHS will, without saying they will fire one single office positions. That’s what’s fishy.

Management decides who to lay off, and it's no surprise that they chose to keep their own jobs, and fire front line workers.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by hogie

Article from Danielle Smith, bit of insight to overtime pay. From Calgary Herald.


But there is an even bigger problem in collective agreements that needs addressing. That’s the issue of overtime pay.

In the private sector world, salaried employees are often asked to work extra hours without extra pay. If overtime is paid, it is only after an employee has worked 40 hours in the week, and most of the time the hours are simply banked and taken as time off at a mutually agreed upon time. Any manager worth their salt is expected to keep overtime costs as low as possible.

That is not the case at Alberta Health Services, where absurd provisions in collective agreements have allowed nurses to work the system to their advantage and get paid tens of thousands of dollars in additional overtime pay.

Whistleblower “Tim” was kind enough to email me to explain how it works. For registered nurses, the duty roster for “on-call duty” has to be posted 12 weeks in advance. If an employer changes the on-call period they have to give 14 days’ notice, otherwise they have to pay the employee double time (even if they haven’t put in 40 hours that week). When a regular or temporary employee who is not on-call is called and required to report to work, they are also deemed to be working overtime and paid at double time (again even if they haven’t put in 40 hours that week.) Ever wonder why there are so many casual and part-time RNs? It’s because overtime allows them to make full-time pay working part-time hours.

For those who "didn't get it" when I posted about it before, maybe you will get it now?
I am glad to see someone bringing this to wider attention.

[rem338win]

What's really too bad is the why the media is spinning it all and the gullible are lapping it up like fools.

The government is rolling back the increases the NDP promised and shouldn't have because we don't have the money. There are no cuts.

School boards and AHS are making this an issue. These are public systems with bloated unions attached that are using their media cronies to play politics.

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. These are systems that have dodged accountability and it needs to stop.

In fact most of our public systems need significant overhauls.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by wmd

WOW hes is a idiot. If he keeps this up he wont win another election he is destroying the heath care and education.

While I may not agree with everything he's doing I don't think it will hurt his chances of re-election. The vast majority of those that will be effected by the cuts are in fact the same group that support the NDP. As for the calls for a general strike the financial savings to the province for thousands taking unpaid time off off will number in the millions for every day it goes on.

[Pathfinder76]

When you inherit debt you have to adjust. There are two ways to do that. Cut spending or make more money. This is a tough spot the Notley Government has put us in.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by rem338win

What's really too bad is the why the media is spinning it all and the gullible are lapping it up like fools.

The government is rolling back the increases the NDP promised and shouldn't have because we don't have the money. There are no cuts.

School boards and AHS are making this an issue. These are public systems with bloated unions attached that are using their media cronies to play politics.

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. These are systems that have dodged accountability and it needs to stop.

In fact most of our public systems need significant overhauls.

Riiight..... (again) preaching against the red coolaid whilst chugging the blue.


Please try and become informed. The NDP pumped up wages?!?!?

Keep the comedy going.

Danielle Smith is kind of right in some regards.....

There’s ALOT to examining where any raises were...... and be strategic/ surgical in reducing them....but nooooooo... we got sum our own ideological agendas we wanna implement now....(vouchers, privatize, .... yada yada) best to just broad cut and preach financial bugetmageddon.

Management....and the fact that there’s various levels of middle management Prolly yup....

Some govt groups prolly got increases..... ie. doctors..... good luck cutting their services.


But no. You jus be you and spew ur blue...... heh

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by hogie View Post
Article from Danielle Smith, bit of insight to overtime pay. From Calgary Herald.


But there is an even bigger problem in collective agreements that needs addressing. That’s the issue of overtime pay.

In the private sector world, salaried employees are often asked to work extra hours without extra pay. If overtime is paid, it is only after an employee has worked 40 hours in the week, and most of the time the hours are simply banked and taken as time off at a mutually agreed upon time. Any manager worth their salt is expected to keep overtime costs as low as possible.
That is not the case at Alberta Health Services, where absurd provisions in collective agreements have allowed nurses to work the system to their advantage and get paid tens of thousands of dollars in additional overtime pay.

Whistleblower “Tim” was kind enough to email me to explain how it works. For registered nurses, the duty roster for “on-call duty” has to be posted 12 weeks in advance. If an employer changes the on-call period they have to give 14 days’ notice, otherwise they have to pay the employee double time (even if they haven’t put in 40 hours that week). When a regular or temporary employee who is not on-call is called and required to report to work, they are also deemed to be working overtime and paid at double time (again even if they haven’t put in 40 hours that week.) Ever wonder why there are so many casual and part-time RNs? It’s because overtime allows them to make full-time pay working part-time hours.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do find it kinda funny that the general population finds stuff like this hard to believe, after all it's been going on in hospitals for as long as I've been working in them (29 years). The big issue is that most management has a nursing back ground and this is the sort of management they've seen their entire working careers so it seems normal. Many of the union contract rules make zero sense from a business standpoint and if implemented in any other company would virtually guarantee a bankruptcy. This is only one of the little ways you can up your wage without breaking a sweat. There are MANY other tricks to game the system. I expect education, police, fire and every other government union has their own little twists.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Originally Posted by hogie View Post
Article from Danielle Smith, bit of insight to overtime pay. From Calgary Herald.


But there is an even bigger problem in collective agreements that needs addressing. That’s the issue of overtime pay.

In the private sector world, salaried employees are often asked to work extra hours without extra pay. If overtime is paid, it is only after an employee has worked 40 hours in the week, and most of the time the hours are simply banked and taken as time off at a mutually agreed upon time. Any manager worth their salt is expected to keep overtime costs as low as possible.
That is not the case at Alberta Health Services, where absurd provisions in collective agreements have allowed nurses to work the system to their advantage and get paid tens of thousands of dollars in additional overtime pay.

Whistleblower “Tim” was kind enough to email me to explain how it works. For registered nurses, the duty roster for “on-call duty” has to be posted 12 weeks in advance. If an employer changes the on-call period they have to give 14 days’ notice, otherwise they have to pay the employee double time (even if they haven’t put in 40 hours that week). When a regular or temporary employee who is not on-call is called and required to report to work, they are also deemed to be working overtime and paid at double time (again even if they haven’t put in 40 hours that week.) Ever wonder why there are so many casual and part-time RNs? It’s because overtime allows them to make full-time pay working part-time hours.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do find it kinda funny that the general population finds stuff like this hard to believe, after all it's been going on in hospitals for as long as I've been working in them (29 years). The big issue is that most management has a nursing back ground and this is the sort of management they've seen their entire working careers so it seems normal. Many of the union contract rules make zero sense from a business standpoint and if implemented in any other company would virtually guarantee a bankruptcy. This is only one of the little ways you can up your wage without breaking a sweat. There are MANY other tricks to game the system. I expect education, police, fire and every other government union has their own little twists.

If you can find the little tricks in education to make a few more bucks, please let me, Bessie, Riden, and Alacringa know tootsweet. We would love to know. If you can, there are Tim's giftcards coming your way.

[bessiedog]

Hell with that.

I’ll buy ya many many beers at the Oldman Brewery! I’ll pay too!
Heh!

If you also got actual pragmatic savings solutions .... I’m all ears too.

2.9% savings really should NZoT affect front line services.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by amosfella

What's interesting about all this is that Kenney increased AHS budget by $200 million. As far as I can tell, that's a greater increase than the whole of the four NDP years. Then when he announced an audit/forensic accounting of AHS by Ernst and Young is when all the talks of layoffs of nurses, Rachel joining protests, etc started.

Me thinks that Rachel is covering for herself, her hubby, and some highly paid friends that might find themselves in both civil and criminal trouble.

For greater clarity, AHS is not a government department. They are a services agency that gets a contract to provide services on behalf of the government of Alberta. AHS made the decision to cut the nurses, not the government.

No, no, no. Kenney is evil don'tcha know? News said so.
We're supposed to be reconsidering how we voted, not looking at the broad spectrum of our fiscal situation and bloated systems.
How dare you?!

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Part of what you sign up for.

Private: boom-bust, you made the unicorn oil money and take the layoffs with it

Public: lower pay and job security: no job security, no point going to university for 4 years, putting up with lower pay, disease exposure, people crapping themselves etc

Wtf are you talking about? The Alberta sunshine list is packed - to the brim of nurses pulling 120k plus. Lots at 150k.

I worked in the oil patch and never once touched that level of personal income, let alone had a pension, sick days and holidays to go with it.

[nick0danger]

Originally Posted by amosfella

What's interesting about all this is that Kenney increased AHS budget by $200 million. As far as I can tell, that's a greater increase than the whole of the four NDP years. Then when he announced an audit/forensic accounting of AHS by Ernst and Young is when all the talks of layoffs of nurses, Rachel joining protests, etc started.

Me thinks that Rachel is covering for herself, her hubby, and some highly paid friends that might find themselves in both civil and criminal trouble.

For greater clarity, AHS is not a government department. They are a services agency that gets a contract to provide services on behalf of the government of Alberta. AHS made the decision to cut the nurses, not the government.

Do you have anything to support the "200 million" increase?

[hogie]

Originally Posted by nick0danger

Do you have anything to support the "200 million" increase?

Google search will get article from cbc.

Health-care spending in Alberta will rise by $201 million this year*to a total of $20.6 billion, the United Conservative government said*Thursday in its first provincial budget.*

In the two previous provincial budgets, the former NDP government increased health spending by three per cent each year. In the 2018-19 budget, total health spending was $20.4 billion.

"It's hard to talk about fiscal responsibility without talking about health care," Alberta*Finance Minister Travis Toews told reporters Thursday before his budget speech.

Health spending is the largest expenditure, accounting for about 43 per cent of the province's total operating costs.

Toews said Alberta's health-care costs are one of the highest per capita in the country.*

Administration costs, research and education, ambulance services and support services will all see decreases*to their budgets compared to 2018-2019, budget documents released Thursday show.

The opening of the south Edmonton hospital will be delayed.*The hospital is now expected to open in 2030 instead of 2027, with funding for the project spread out over seven years.*

In the budget, funding for the proposed child and adolescent mental health building at the Royal Alexandra Hospital has been deferred beyond the government's four-year fiscal plan.*

NDP health critic David Shepherd says the*project delays will hurt Edmonton.

"I'm deeply concerned to see that. That's been the pattern of Conservative governments for a long time. When they want to artificially balance the budget, they want to cut back on needed infrastructure and create more costs down the road," he said.

The province's $2.9-billion health capital plan will include money for planning the redevelopment of the Red Deer Regional hospital and the proposed Brain Centre at the University of Alberta.

Capital funding will also be allocated for*the Calgary Cancer Centre, the Norwood continuing care facility in Edmonton and the Grande Prairie hospital.

According to Thursday's budget, over the next four years the province plans to spend:

$100 million on a mental health and addiction strategy;$40 million on an opioid response strategy;$20 million for palliative care;$6 million for a new sexual assault hotline;$4 million for the Health Quality Council of Alberta.

One of the UCP's campaign promises missing from Thursday's budget was a plan to address surgical wait times.*

A plan to deal with that will be included in next year's budget, the province said.

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by amosfella

For greater clarity, AHS is not a government department. They are a services agency that gets a contract to provide services on behalf of the government of Alberta. AHS made the decision to cut the nurses, not the government.

Somewhat a disingenuous statement. They are a 100% government agency, just simply not a ministry of the Government of Alberta. AHS is controlled by a Board of Directors, which the Minister of Health has full jurisdiction to fire/instruct at will.

AHS did make the decision to cut the nurses, but the Minister of Health tells AHS when to jump, and if wanted, how high.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Hell with that.

I’ll buy ya many many beers at the Oldman Brewery! I’ll pay too!
Heh!

If you also got actual pragmatic savings solutions .... I’m all ears too.

2.9% savings really should NZoT affect front line services.

There are a TON of private corporations that could help with cost cutting ideas.

[roper1]

[QUOTE=Scott h;4066191]Originally Posted by hogie View Post
Article from Danielle Smith, bit of insight to overtime pay. From Calgary Herald.


But there is an even bigger problem in collective agreements that needs addressing. That’s the issue of overtime pay.

In the private sector world, salaried employees are often asked to work extra hours without extra pay. If overtime is paid, it is only after an employee has worked 40 hours in the week, and most of the time the hours are simply banked and taken as time off at a mutually agreed upon time. Any manager worth their salt is expected to keep overtime costs as low as possible.
That is not the case at Alberta Health Services, where absurd provisions in collective agreements have allowed nurses to work the system to their advantage and get paid tens of thousands of dollars in additional overtime pay.

Whistleblower “Tim” was kind enough to email me to explain how it works. For registered nurses, the duty roster for “on-call duty” has to be posted 12 weeks in advance. If an employer changes the on-call period they have to give 14 days’ notice, otherwise they have to pay the employee double time (even if they haven’t put in 40 hours that week). When a regular or temporary employee who is not on-call is called and required to report to work, they are also deemed to be working overtime and paid at double time (again even if they haven’t put in 40 hours that week.) Ever wonder why there are so many casual and part-time RNs? It’s because overtime allows them to make full-time pay working part-time hours.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is worth a careful re-read!