Alberta UCP election coming up.

[FortMac]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

Political parties do not condone crossover voting. Your chosen party's constituency office would be able to provide you with the best answer to your question.

But my point stands. Having to belong to a particular political party in order to vote for premier is flawed. A premier who is chosen in this manner should not be introducing policy that is different from the platform that the party was elected on.

You didn't vote for the premier, you voted for the new leader of the party. You never vote for the Premier or Prime Minister, You vote for your Local representative, the Local representative belongs to a Party, Members of the Party vote for someone who leads the party.

Everyone and anyone had a chance to join the UCP to vote for the new leader of the UCP.

[KegRiver]

It seems that some folks still don't understand how our parliamentary system works. or rather how it's supposed to work.

The premier does not lead or direct a province. In theory.
The party leads or directs the province, while the premier leads the party.
Or that's how it's supposed to work.

The system is flawed, no doubt about it. Starting with the voter all the way up to the Premier or Prime Minister.

Too many people vote for the leader of the party, as if his or her word is final when it's not supposed to be.
This is what votes in parliament are all about.

If everyone voted for the best local representative, in theory at least, the people we do elect would keep the party leader honest.

But we hold our noses and vote for the party of our choice rather then the individual candidate in our riding that best represents what we want from our parliamentarians.

That allows a lot of self serving politicians to slip under our radar.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

Political parties do not condone crossover voting. Your chosen party's constituency office would be able to provide you with the best answer to your question.

But my point stands. Having to belong to a particular political party in order to vote for premier is flawed. A premier who is chosen in this manner should not be introducing policy that is different from the platform that the party was elected on.

Your second paragraph I agree with. Your first however continues to be in error. Before however you said you couldn’t. Now you say they don’t condone which is true. So we agree on that.

However you can easily look online and see how to purchase a UPC membership. There is no lie detector test. There is no Canadian list of who you support. You can say you are UPC in public and vote NDP or vice versa. They want your money and your personal info so that you are on a list.

Membership Application
SECURE
Join or renew your UCP membership
Try our automated tool to check your membership status here.
Requirements of membership:

reside in Alberta, or have resided in Alberta for at least six months of the previous 12 months;
are at least 14 years of age;
personally authorize your application;
support the principles of the Association; and
have paid the prescribed fee, personally or through an immediate family member (spouse, child or parent)
Continue below only if you meet each of these requirements that were created and approved by our members in our by-laws. Please note that membership purchases are non-refundable and must be paid with a personal credit card only.

NDP says you have to be an NDPer… but no one is interviewing your family and friends.

https://www.albertandp.ca/sites/defa...rship_form.pdf

It’s the honour system only.

As the premise was people could buy memberships to ruin the election by voting for the worst.

There is no way to stop it.

In reality it would be hard to organize and you would pad their war chest.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

It seems that some folks still don't understand how our parliamentary system works. or rather how it's supposed to work.

The premier does not lead or direct a province. In theory.
The party leads or directs the province, while the premier leads the party.
Or that's how it's supposed to work.

The system is flawed, no doubt about it. Starting with the voter all the way up to the Premier or Prime Minister.

Too many people vote for the leader of the party, as if his or her word is final when it's not supposed to be.
This is what votes in parliament are all about.

If everyone voted for the best local representative, in theory at least, the people we do elect would keep the party leader honest.

But we hold our noses and vote for the party of our choice rather then the individual candidate in our riding that best represents what we want from our parliamentarians.

That allows a lot of self serving politicians to slip under our radar.

Political parties destroy democracy.

[Big Sky]

Originally Posted by FortMac

You didn't vote for the premier, you voted for the new leader of the party.

In this case, the new premier and the new leader of the party are one and the same. How could you not know this?

Originally Posted by FortMac

Everyone and anyone had a chance to join the UCP to vote for the new leader of the UCP.

This is just a false statement. Again, how could you not know this?
It's time to get on your Googler.

[Rancid Crabtree]

Originally Posted by pittman

Boys,

DS is already redacting on her proposed Sovereignty Act. Apparently now this act won't actually allow her to disregard the Supreme Court of Canada's decisions.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...erta-1.6612197

How long has it been? 2 or 3 days now and she's already given up on the UCP members and is working away to appease the rest of Alberta.

What's next?

Now we are using CBC as a source ?? LOL

I don’t think disregarding the Supreme Court was ever the goal as I understood. The goal is the disregard the prime minister and force him to go thru the work of taking us to the Supreme Court. This delay and trouble will make it much more likely for the PM to work with us.
CBC is doing their propaganda thing.
Another thing about the sovereignty act, it would require a vote in legislature so there is oversight built in the process.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by FortMac

Everyone and anyone had a chance to join the UCP to vote for the new leader of the UCP.

If you followed the UPC membership rules… if you were an NDP supporter… you were not allowed to buy a membership and vote.

As there is no master list… I suppose you could lie and vote. However it defeats your statement.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by traderal

The problem will be that the entrenched NDP leaning civil service will kick back.

That's going to be a big challenge - I've already heard the beginnings of the negative chatter among the public workers.

The NDP are clever. They know how to plant the seeds of mistrust, and their targets will be the frontline workers who usually take the brunt of budget cuts.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by Sitting Bull

Could we have an honest discussion on the Alberta Party? I have not really followed politics in the past and would like to get involved a bit more. There is not much info out there on this party other than the same old stuff on the web site.
Who are they and what do they stand for? How would they affect our province if they were ever elected? Are they worse than the NDP?
Thanks

I looked into them at the last provincial election - what I came away with was that they were essentially the Alberta liberal party. I had hoped for better.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree

Now we are using CBC as a source ?? LOL

I don’t think disregarding the Supreme Court was ever the goal as I understood. The goal is the disregard the prime minister and force him to go thru the work of taking us to the Supreme Court. This delay and trouble will make it much more likely for the PM to work with us.
CBC is doing their propaganda thing.
Another thing about the sovereignty act, it would require a vote in legislature so there is oversight built in the process.

It’s all over the news.

https://canadatoday.news/ab/smiths-s...advisor-29643/

Go to Google

Type in

Danielle Smith's sovereignty act

Look for anything new in the last 24 hours.

It’s actually a good thing. Shows she is moderating away from strange, bizarre radical thoughts.

Remember she isn’t stopping the new act… just saying when it’s drafted it will be more legal than not. Legal means it would have more validity.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

I looked into them at the last provincial election - what I came away with was that they were essentially the Alberta liberal party. I had hoped for better.

I heard at one point they were looking for Nenshi to lead.

[KC1]

Originally Posted by FortMac

Everyone and anyone had a chance to join the UCP to vote for the new leader of the UCP.

True
I can buy a membership IN UCP, NDP and Independence Party and vote for all 3 leaders
Won't waste my money on NDP though

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I heard at one point they were looking for Nenshi to lead.

Oh! I hadn't heard about that. I gotta look into that again.

I recall last election they were trying to get Mandel to lead, and that was definitely a non-starter for me.

[Rancid Crabtree]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

It’s all over the news.

https://canadatoday.news/ab/smiths-s...advisor-29643/

Go to Google

Type in

Danielle Smith's sovereignty act

Look for anything new in the last 24 hours.

It’s actually a good thing. Shows she is moderating away from strange, bizarre radical thoughts.

Remember she isn’t stopping the new act… just saying when it’s drafted it will be more legal than not. Legal means it would have more validity.

I’m not concerned, I just think the media is making up the idea that she’s pivoting and changing. We always knew that the act would be drafted in consultation with the caucus and legal advisers.
I don’t think this represents any change just a misrepresentation of the original idea. The goal has been to require the Supreme Court to decide some things rather than consent to the PM bully tactics.

[FortMac]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

In this case, the new premier and the new leader of the party are one and the same. How could you not know this?



This is just a false statement. Again, how could you not know this?
It's time to get on your Googler.

In ThIs CaSe She became the Premier yes, But the vote was to decide who was the new Leader of the UCP, what happens after that is circumstance.

Who at the age of 18 or older could not have acquired a UCP membership and had a vote? Convicts? People living out of province?

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree

The goal has been to require the Supreme Court to decide some things rather than consent to the PM bully tactics.

I think you hit the nail on the head there, Rancid.

[FortMac]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

If you followed the UPC membership rules… if you were an NDP supporter… you were not allowed to buy a membership and vote.

As there is no master list… I suppose you could lie and vote. However it defeats your statement.

It doesn't defeat my Statement. Could some guy who follows Notely and Mao on Twitter have signed up for a Membership and had a vote on who the new leader of the UCP was? 100%, they just chose not to.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

Oh! I hadn't heard about that. I gotta look into that again.

I recall last election they were trying to get Mandel to lead, and that was definitely a non-starter for me.

It was bantered around as Nenshi likes to always gauge social acceptance.

https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/com...take_over_the/

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by FortMac

It doesn't defeat my Statement. Could some guy who follows Notely and Mao on Twitter have signed up for a Membership and had a vote on who the new leader of the UCP was? 100%, they just chose not to.

Following the rules you are not allowed to get a membership in a party if you are a member in another or don’t subscribe to the parties position.

Hence… anyone who doesn’t fit the UPC position… are excluded from voting.

Unless someone is not truthful.

So not everyone was technically able or allowed to vote for the Premier.

As such I think it’s fair to say that the new Premier shouldn’t bring new controversial policies forward that we’re not run on via the previous election.

So her backing down on trying to say Alberta will ignore federal law in the sovereignty act… means in my opinion she is maintaining the UPC mandate of negotiating the best deal for Alberta in Confederation.

Doesn’t mean she can’t play ball harder or softer as that has been in the tool box since the last election. Kenny just didn’t have much to show.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by FortMac

In ThIs CaSe She became the Premier yes, But the vote was to decide who was the new Leader of the UCP, what happens after that is circumstance.

Who at the age of 18 or older could not have acquired a UCP membership and had a vote? Convicts? People living out of province?

Anyone who disagrees with UPC policies. If you are an NDP member you don’t support the principles of the association. NDP membership is worded even stricter.

Membership Application
SECURE
Join or renew your UCP membership
Try our automated tool to check your membership status here.
Requirements of membership:

reside in Alberta, or have resided in Alberta for at least six months of the previous 12 months;
are at least 14 years of age;
personally authorize your application;
support the principles of the Association; and
have paid the prescribed fee, personally or through an immediate family member (spouse, child or parent)
Continue below only if you meet each of these requirements that were created and approved by our members in our by-laws. Please note that membership purchases are non-refundable and must be paid with a personal credit card only.

[FortMac]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Anyone who disagrees with UPC policies. If you are an NDP member you don’t support the principles of the association. NDP membership is worded even stricter.

It says Principles, Not policies. There are 7 generic Principles, Freedom, family, less government etc etc. It looks like a boilerplate statement. You seem to want to really nitpic at it for some reason. At the end of the day anyone could have gotten a membership

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree

I’m not concerned, I just think the media is making up the idea that she’s pivoting and changing. We always knew that the act would be drafted in consultation with the caucus and legal advisers.
I don’t think this represents any change just a misrepresentation of the original idea. The goal has been to require the Supreme Court to decide some things rather than consent to the PM bully tactics.

Did she say this or not in your mind?

https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...4704ea43b/amp/

“On day one I’m introducing the Alberta Sovereignty Act, authorizing our provincial government to refuse to enforce any federal law or policy that attacks Alberta’s interest or our provincial rights,” Smith said in a video posted Wednesday evening to social media.

She promised it… on video

https://twitter.com/abdaniellesmith/...HgbKKReKIAwxpw

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by FortMac

It says Principles, Not policies. There are 7 generic Principles, Freedom, family, less government etc etc. It looks like a boilerplate statement. You seem to want to really nitpic at it for some reason. At the end of the day anyone could have gotten a membership

Let’s list the Principles for giggles

Does the NDP follow the same principles? If so… maybe NDP is the way to go? What does it matter then?

Statement of Principles
As a party, we stand united on the following principles that guide our vision for a stronger Alberta:

A robust civil society made up of free individuals, strong families, and voluntary associations.
Freedom of speech, worship and assembly.
Affirm the family as the building block of society and the means by which citizens pass on their values and beliefs and ensure that families are protected from intrusion by government.
Economic freedom in a market economy which encourages the creation of wealth through free enterprise, and protection of the right to own, enjoy and exchange property.
Limited government, including low levels of taxation to help generate economic growth while allowing Albertans to enjoy the fruits of their own labour.
Fiscal responsibility, including balanced budgets, debt reduction, and respect for taxpayers' money.
Protecting public safety as a primary responsibility of government.

https://www.unitedconservative.ca/about/

[tirebob]

Gentlemen... You guys have stated your opinions on the subject... Best to move on and stop trying to convince each other who is right and wrong or risk turning this into the next covid thread and lose everything again.

Please take this gentle warning.

Since the leadership election is now over I am going to close this thread. If any specific topics regarding the party need to be discussed, please start one dealing with the specific issue keeping in mind the above warning.