Canada’s Outdoor Outfitters Wholesale Sports

Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Hunting Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-11-2018, 03:32 PM
Slapshot100mph Slapshot100mph is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 54
Default Moose Rut - Excellent Article

Excellent read here folks. Best and most concise article I've read on the subject of moose rut timing. Might help remove some of the "mystery" around the rut. Or at least provide some more fodder for the resulting arguments! LOL

http://www.tokairservice.com/article...t-hunting-tips
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-11-2018, 04:15 PM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 875
Default

Good stuff!👍
I’ve argued some of these very facts in deer camps for years,ie;the rut is neither early nor late and has nothing to do with ambient temperature ,it’s perfectly on time as it has been every year for milliniae......nice to confirm that it applies to moose as well.
__________________
The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-11-2018, 04:32 PM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 875
Default

Another really cool tidbit is his observation of individual voices of cows which I have been somewhat puzzled by for years.
I’ve hunted moose with maybe a couple dozen(?) different individuals over the years and have listened to at least 2-3x that many hunters do their best rendition of what they think a bawling cow should sound like.Ive heard and seen it all from guys that like higher pitched “ooooooooos” to more nasal sounding “waaaaaahhhhhs” and everything in between from commercial reed calls to birchbark to rolled up tarpaper to cupped hands to orange plastic traffic cones to a wet string and juice can.....,and most of these guys are/have been successful moose callers in their own right.Pretty cool to confirm the individualality of cow voices in the wild and explains why so many different calling styles are effective.
😎

EDIT:kinda blows the lid off the credibility of any moose calling contest don’t it,lol
The ONLY truly qualified judge has antlers 😝
__________________
The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.

Last edited by West O'5; 09-11-2018 at 04:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-12-2018, 06:50 AM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 12,356
Default

Be in the woods sept/October and you will know what's up......arse in bed or on the couch well go to wild TV....and pretend your a moose hunter....
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-12-2018, 08:29 AM
35 whelen's Avatar
35 whelen 35 whelen is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: N.W OF EDMONTON AND EAST OF GRAND PRAIRIE
Posts: 2,662
Default

I was a moose guide for 15 plus years was quite successful, as I learn to call on my own grew up in a non hunting family reading books and videos anyway last year I called for 8 days not much happened I went online watched a few different techniques on how to call Moose went out the next day October 4th and called one in, that is the third bull in 7 years that my son and I have called in and killed on October 4th I know when I'll be hunting moose again.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-12-2018, 08:33 AM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Be in the woods sept/October and you will know what's up......arse in bed or on the couch well go to wild TV....and pretend your a moose hunter....
Lotsa guys in the woods Sept-Oct that “think” they know what’s up and will tell ya the rut is late,came early,it’s over,hasn’t started,shoulda been here last week,too warm,too hot,too cold,need frost,missed the rut moon, etc etc on and on....Orrrrrrrrrrr,ya can pay attention to the bio that’s made a lifelong career of studying moose year round x40 years and actually KNOWS what’s up....that being that the rut is at the exact same time every year irregardless of environmental conditions.
__________________
The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-12-2018, 08:37 AM
creeky creeky is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,718
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapshot100mph View Post
Excellent read here folks. Best and most concise article I've read on the subject of moose rut timing. Might help remove some of the "mystery" around the rut. Or at least provide some more fodder for the resulting arguments! LOL

http://www.tokairservice.com/article...t-hunting-tips
Like you said, excellent read. Thanks for the share.


Creeky....


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________
#I Am An Outdoorsman And I Approve This Message


#creativity can't wait for technology
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2018, 08:50 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,617
Default Rut

Bio's always said elk rut is impacted by Sun angle on retina of eye which is constant each year. If this is similar to moose then Alaska/Yukon rut would be earlier than Southern Alberta or Montana elk/moose??
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:57 AM
oilngas oilngas is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 639
Default Thanks for the link

slapper; that's very similar to information the late Dr. Wishard published for deer (both kinds) as a result of "his and students" studies and papers re; camp wainwright. Just different times for the deer than moose.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:29 AM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Bio's always said elk rut is impacted by Sun angle on retina of eye which is constant each year. If this is similar to moose then Alaska/Yukon rut would be earlier than Southern Alberta or Montana elk/moose??
I’m guessing that moose rut must evolve to be geographically specific in relation to photoperiod/diminishing sunlight vs Sun angle triggering the rut to ensure that calves are born at the optimal time in Spring,being that the moose rut timing is pretty consistent from Alaska to southern Alberta to New Brunswick?Even though daylight diminishes much sooner in Alaska then in NB,the rut timing is pretty much identical from what I can tell based on the author’s claims studying AK moose(where I’ve never been) compared to NB where I’ve hunted extensively for decades.....the moose rut is late Sept-early Oct for both.
On second thought,I guess either amount of daylight or angle of sun is essentially one in the same,if the local animals evolve to rut at a certain time of year it doesn’t matter,both the angle and amount of sunlight is constant from year to year.
Now that said,I wonder if you transplanted a native cow moose from Maine to Alaska would she be messed up and come into estrous much sooner then her Alaska cousins?Likewise,if you took an AK moose and moved her to NB maybe she wouldn’t come into estrous until late October when the available daylight replicates that of an Alaskan September?
__________________
The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-14-2018, 06:03 AM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 12,356
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
Lotsa guys in the woods Sept-Oct that “think” they know what’s up and will tell ya the rut is late,came early,it’s over,hasn’t started,shoulda been here last week,too warm,too hot,too cold,need frost,missed the rut moon, etc etc on and on....Orrrrrrrrrrr,ya can pay attention to the bio that’s made a lifelong career of studying moose year round x40 years and actually KNOWS what’s up....that being that the rut is at the exact same time every year irregardless of environmental conditions.
True walking around with eyes wide shut sitting and playing on the phone....missed the entire rut or it never happened this year
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-14-2018, 07:50 AM
Pikebreath Pikebreath is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,099
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
I’m guessing that moose rut must evolve to be geographically specific in relation to photoperiod/diminishing sunlight vs Sun angle triggering the rut to ensure that calves are born at the optimal time in Spring,being that the moose rut timing is pretty consistent from Alaska to southern Alberta to New Brunswick?Even though daylight diminishes much sooner in Alaska then in NB,the rut timing is pretty much identical from what I can tell based on the author’s claims studying AK moose(where I’ve never been) compared to NB where I’ve hunted extensively for decades.....the moose rut is late Sept-early Oct for both.
On second thought,I guess either amount of daylight or angle of sun is essentially one in the same,if the local animals evolve to rut at a certain time of year it doesn’t matter,both the angle and amount of sunlight is constant from year to year.
Now that said,I wonder if you transplanted a native cow moose from Maine to Alaska would she be messed up and come into estrous much sooner then her Alaska cousins?Likewise,if you took an AK moose and moved her to NB maybe she wouldn’t come into estrous until late October when the available daylight replicates that of an Alaskan September?
Around the equinox, everywhere has has pretty much some amount of daylight hours.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-14-2018, 12:52 PM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
Around the equinox, everywhere has has pretty much some amount of daylight hours.
Ahh yes,never thought of that,good point.
__________________
The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-14-2018, 04:04 PM
303carbine 303carbine is online now
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver Island ,BC
Posts: 635
Default

I live on Vancouver Island, I have said for many years that the shortening of the daytime hours triggers the rut for the deer.
Right now the Roosevelt elk are moving around like crazy, I see them just about every trip out for deer since Sept 10th.
Those who rely on the weather or the moon for the timing of their hunt will often be eating more at McDonalds.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-14-2018, 10:32 PM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 303carbine View Post
I live on Vancouver Island, I have said for many years that the shortening of the daytime hours triggers the rut for the deer.
Right now the Roosevelt elk are moving around like crazy, I see them just about every trip out for deer since Sept 10th.
Those who rely on the weather or the moon for the timing of their hunt will often be eating more at McDonalds.
I wouldn’t discount the effects of the moon and weather.The rut will take place at the same time every year,but moon phase and weather have a big effect on game movement as well.
__________________
The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-15-2018, 07:56 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,617
Default moose rut

My theory has always been that when we have early snow like now in foothills, bull moose thinks " What the hell winters coming and I have not had any tail yet" so he runs around looking for a girl friend.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-15-2018, 09:44 AM
303carbine 303carbine is online now
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver Island ,BC
Posts: 635
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
I wouldn’t discount the effects of the moon and weather.The rut will take place at the same time every year,but moon phase and weather have a big effect on game movement as well.

The rut happens no matter the weather, it probably throws in a few variables just to keep us hunters up later and awake earlier.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-15-2018, 10:46 AM
honda450's Avatar
honda450 honda450 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 6,921
Default

Here is one my son shot in full rut a few years back. Had a cow with him. Ya talk about stink.. wow. It was early Oct. I believe plus or minus. Had to rush like heck as it was very warm out.

Leave the moose huntin to the young guys now.

__________________
Smoke or Fire in the Forest Dial 310-FIRE


thegungirl.ca @gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-15-2018, 11:03 AM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 303carbine View Post
The rut happens no matter the weather, it probably throws in a few variables just to keep us hunters up later and awake earlier.
I agree 100%,the rut is gonna happen on time,without fail,every year,regardless of weather,but.....weather and moon phase plays a significant role on the intensity and daytime movement of bucks,and probably safe to assume bull moose as well.
Think about it....if you were a 1000lb bull and wearing a 100lb black fur coat 24/7,you probably are gonna feel a bit lazy and not too ambitious late Sept when it’s 24C outside vs if it’s -2C.
Interesting study,in NB we had an excellent deer Bio who was a passionate avid deer hunter himself and well respected amongst his peers across North America/QDMA etc.kind of a
“Who’s who” list of WT Bios on the continent really.....anyhow...he conducted a study over several years in NB which dispels any myths IMHO of the rut being influenced by weather and being early or late or wutever as is the often held beliefs in deer camps across the country.
Over a several year period he collected and examined hundreds(1000+??)road killed doe WT deer,removed and weighed the fetuses,thus being able to backdate the date of conception based on fetus weight.He concluded that Nov.23 was the peak breeding date give or take a day or two,year after year regardless of weather conditions,cold and frosty,snow,warm/relatively hot November...wutever/ didn’t matter,something like 90%(?) of all does were bred within that 4-5 day window either side of Nov.23 year after year.
This is a big part of why it’s so important to have a healthy buck:doe ratio of 1:3 or less,ideally 1:2 to ensure that all or most does are bred during that short window in Nov when they come into estrous,which ensures fawns are born at the optimal time each spring.In populations where the buck:doe ratio gets out of whack,ie;1:5 and even greater in some instances,usually a result of hunters reluctance to take does and only targeting bucks,late born WT fawns that were conceived during the 2nd and even 3rd estrous cycle in Dec and Jan go into fall with a much lower winter weight then their cousins which were conceived in Nov and born on time.
If they even survive winter,these late born buck fawns need a longer recovery period the following spring as 1 year olds and are more likely to be spikes vs branched antlered 1.5yos in the fall.
So this all ties in to another commonly held myth amongst hunters that the biggest/strongest mature WT bucks do most of the breeding,and it’s simply not true.
WT bucks are not elk,and they do not collect harems of many females with breeding rights.Yes,they fight and spar and establish dominance and run themselves ragged searching for hot does,then when he finds one that will permit him to mount during that short 4-5 day window,he will stick to her like glue and mount her repeatedly for 24-48hrs until she will no longer allow it or he gets chased off by a more dominant buck....and then he searches for another doe to mate.So simple math tells you that he can only breed 2-3 does during that short window of 4-5 days when all of the local does get hot if he spends 48hrs with each one.
Genetic studies have proven this,ie;that even the most dominant buck in the herd will normally only breed 2-3 does max during the peak breeding dates of late November.
Phewwwww......long story short,lol.....the rut is on time every time,year in and year out,regardless of weather...period.
__________________
The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.

Last edited by West O'5; 09-15-2018 at 11:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-16-2018, 07:22 AM
58thecat's Avatar
58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 12,356
Default

Well,was out farting around yesterday morning, checking cams etc and finally came across a moose rub and the start of a wallow, ground disturbance, same area as other years so set up a camera there....

image.jpg


He is itchy but not getting it....yet....another year and no tag or a pic of my bow laying beside him would have filled the freezer just nice.
__________________

Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-16-2018, 09:43 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,617
Default

West you are correct normally whitetails do not gather harems. However watched a massive mule buck with about 20 does. Split his herd in half on both sides of road. He went crazy going back and forth across the road for about 5 minutes to gather up his herd just like bull elk. Come to think about it he had antlers like a 5 point elk and obviously very large kihonees. Most of you mule deer hunters would dream about buck like that big boy.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-16-2018, 02:18 PM
Passthru's Avatar
Passthru Passthru is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 725
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Well,was out farting around yesterday morning, checking cams etc and finally came across a moose rub and the start of a wallow, ground disturbance, same area as other years so set up a camera there....

Attachment 148960


He is itchy but not getting it....yet....another year and no tag or a pic of my bow laying beside him would have filled the freezer just nice.
Nice. I’m finding the same. They are coming to calls quietly
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-17-2018, 07:30 PM
honda450's Avatar
honda450 honda450 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 6,921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by honda450 View Post
Here is one my son shot in full rut a few years back. Had a cow with him. Ya talk about stink.. wow. It was early Oct. I believe plus or minus. Had to rush like heck as it was very warm out.

Leave the moose huntin to the young guys now.

After reviewing my log I was a little off......I was surprised that moose was shot Sept. 29. I guess that's why I keep a log. hehehe
__________________
Smoke or Fire in the Forest Dial 310-FIRE


thegungirl.ca @gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-17-2018, 08:44 PM
KegRiver's Avatar
KegRiver KegRiver is online now
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 9,370
Default

one thing that wasn't mentioned that does make a difference.


That is; leaves on the trees. Most of what he said I know to be true. And although leaves on the trees did not appear to me to change the timing of the rut it certainly seems to change the rate of responses to efforts to call one in.
Which in turn effects hunt success.

It would also have been nice if he had talked more about specific calls and sounds and the part each played in the rut and when and how each was used.

For example, I have never heard Moose call after mid October but they certainly do sometimes come to the right call, well into December. Key words being "the right call"

It was a good read and I did learn from it.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-17-2018, 11:16 PM
Talking moose's Avatar
Talking moose Talking moose is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Camrose
Posts: 8,486
Default

Any rut coincides with the gestation period and best possible chance of survival for offspring. And it is triggered by light yes. Sucks to have a late or early spring but Mother Nature can only do so much.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:04 PM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
one thing that wasn't mentioned that does make a difference.


That is; leaves on the trees. Most of what he said I know to be true. And although leaves on the trees did not appear to me to change the timing of the rut it certainly seems to change the rate of responses to efforts to call one in.
Which in turn effects hunt success.

It would also have been nice if he had talked more about specific calls and sounds and the part each played in the rut and when and how each was used.

For example, I have never heard Moose call after mid October but they certainly do sometimes come to the right call, well into December. Key words being "the right call"

It was a good read and I did learn from it.
Not sure if I’m understanding you correctly,but are you saying that leaves or lack thereof increases your success rate of more moose called in relation to total number of attempts?
If that’s the case,I think the simplest explanation might be that sound just simply carries better when the leaves are down,thus making your calling more effective over a broader area?
__________________
The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-19-2018, 06:36 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,617
Default rut

My thought are Keg believes that leaf changes may be a trigger that gets moose going, much like a early snow fall.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-19-2018, 07:38 AM
Stinky Buffalo's Avatar
Stinky Buffalo Stinky Buffalo is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: A bit North o' Center...
Posts: 6,409
Default

A lot of the confusion comes when hunters mistake the voracity of call response with rut timing.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:11 AM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,826
Default

Regarding leaves, there’s a certain time period where moose feed like mad on fallen poplar leaves.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-19-2018, 10:34 AM
KegRiver's Avatar
KegRiver KegRiver is online now
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 9,370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
Not sure if I’m understanding you correctly,but are you saying that leaves or lack thereof increases your success rate of more moose called in relation to total number of attempts?
If that’s the case,I think the simplest explanation might be that sound just simply carries better when the leaves are down,thus making your calling more effective over a broader area?
That's exactly right.

I've heard a lot of guys say the rut doesn't kick in until the leaves are gone but that is not what I have experienced. I've had them come to a call in August, long befor the leaves even start to change color.

Befor the leaves fall, I find calling from an elevated position ups the chance of a response. I have had good success calling from the hills along river valleys in mid September.
Calling along the edges of a natural meadow seems to up the odds as well.

The second issue I see is knowing what habitat the Moose utilize at different times of year. There the leaves or lack of is important because they are indicative of the type of feed available and thus where the Moose are likely to be. It's not that they aren't rutting, they are not where you expect them to be.

A lot of guys seem to think that calling only works during the peak of the rut. I find that to be incorrect. I've called them in the middle of August and as late as mid November. I do amateur wildlife photography and calling is one tool that I use to get better photos.

Another mistake I think inexperienced caller makes is thinking if they don't hear a Moose reply or moving through the forest toward them, then there was no response.
A Moose can be incredibly quiet if it wants to be. At the peak of the rut they can sound like a freight train coming in. Huffing and puffing and stomping on sticks but early in the rut they often sneak in undetected and dead slow.

When I was learning to call, more then once I gave up too soon and then found fresh tracks right where I was sitting, the following day.
I think a lot of guys blame their failed attempts at calling on anything or anyone but themselves. And leaves are a handy excuse.


Bottom line, If it's not the peak of the rut, it's a very good idea to wait longer then you would during the peak of the rut, before you move to a new location or give up all together.

I also think a lot of guys use the wrong call for the stage of rut they are hunting, and then blame their lack of success on the leaves or the rut being over or not yet on.
Grunting may be quiet effective during the peak of the rut, but at other times, grunting can work against you. And that can lead some to believe the Moose aren't responding to call, which leads to the false conclusion that the rut is delayed or over when it's not.

The world is full of guys that think they are experts after one hunt, one success, one anything.

The more I learn, the more I find that I don't know.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.