What the heck is going on in the states ??

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by tri777

Candace Owens says it best..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0QN-mINS1k

That was an excellent video that sums things up very well

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by KC1

Where can I find the stats?
Had an argument today with a lefty.
Especially the 13%-52%.
Thanks

I think it was here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race..._United_States



The 13% of the population comes from the link Sporty provided.


When you look at the stats it shows an obvious elephant in the room which should be addressed, or at least brought up in conversation. Find out why 13% of the population is responsible for 52% of murders, then use that as a starting point on how to make meaningful change in the US. The same could be said of Canada or any other nation.

[sk270]

Regarding Bessiedog's chart https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RL-CHyzgK1Q/maxresdefault.jpg

Originally Posted by chuck

Who in the world put that together? They don’t appear to be a fan of CNN at all.

I just saw this discussion this morning so I am jumping in a bit late.

To answer Chuck's question, I think this chart was put together by a US attorney who did so because many sources that people consider to be ‘news sources’ are actually dominated by analysis and opinion pieces.

I have used a similar chart https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings, but Bessiedog's offers an additional dimension that seems useful.

We need the facts before we listen to other people's opinions. Then we can form our own opinions and try to make decisions. The current state of on-line media demands hyper-vigilance on our part. The situation is even worse when people think that Twitter and Facebook are good sources.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I think it was here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race..._United_States

When you look at the stats it shows an obvious elephant in the room which should be addressed, or at least brought up in conversation. Find out why 13% of the population is responsible for 52% of murders, then use that as a starting point on how to make meaningful change in the US. The same could be said of Canada or any other nation.

Hi Kurt505. Interesting that you posted that link. The article includes: Academic research indicates that the over-representation of some racial minorities in the criminal justice system can in part be explained by socioeconomic factors, such as poverty, exposure to poor neighborhoods, poor access to public education, poor access to early childhood education, and exposure to harmful chemicals (such as lead) and pollution.[2][3] Racial housing segregation has also been linked to racial disparities in crime rates, as blacks have historically and to the present been prevented from moving into prosperous low-crime areas through actions of the government (such as redlining) and private actors.[4][5][6]

Research also indicates that there is extensive racial and ethnic discrimination by police and the judicial system.[7][8][9]

If we accept the basic premises of the article, we need to figure out how to fix these things.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by sk270

Hi Kurt505. Interesting that you posted that link. The article includes: Academic research indicates that the over-representation of some racial minorities in the criminal justice system can in part be explained by socioeconomic factors, such as poverty, exposure to poor neighborhoods, poor access to public education, poor access to early childhood education, and exposure to harmful chemicals (such as lead) and pollution.[2][3] Racial housing segregation has also been linked to racial disparities in crime rates, as blacks have historically and to the present been prevented from moving into prosperous low-crime areas through actions of the government (such as redlining) and private actors.[4][5][6]

Research also indicates that there is extensive racial and ethnic discrimination by police and the judicial system.[7][8][9]

If we accept the basic premises of the article, we need to figure out how to fix these things.

Why would you find it particularly interesting that specifically I would post that link? I’m not trying to hide or sugar coat anything, unlike many of you others are doing. We should post up all the stats and get it all out on the table hey? You should go find some stats for our conversation, it’ll only help to find a solution. I’m about calling a spade a spade, solve the problem instead of lying about it.

You do realize that every American and every Canadian has the ability and freedom to improve their life right? This isn’t the 1950’s anymore. “Boo hoo my life sucks and it’s all your fault!” Really? How about get off your ass and do something about it. In North America there are successful people of literally every race and it’s because they work for it not cry about it.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Why would you find it particularly interesting that specifically I would post that link? I’m not trying to hide or sugar coat anything, unlike many of you others are doing. We should post up all the stats and get it all out on the table hey? You should go find some stats for our conversation, it’ll only help to find a solution. I’m about calling a spade a spade, solve the problem instead of lying about it.

You do realize that every American and every Canadian has the ability and freedom to improve their life right? This isn’t the 1950’s anymore. “Boo hoo my life sucks and it’s all your fault!” Really? How about get off your ass and do something about it. In North America there are successful people of literally every race and it’s because they work for it not cry about it.

Sorry you thought I was being personal. It was not my intention.

It is interesting because the article begins with a suggested solution when it describes the reasons for the problems.

One of the questions is related to how much should the rest of society do to change those situations and how much should we expect people to lift themselves up by their bootstraps.

I believe that there is a middle ground in which the greater society makes changes while enabling those affected to do something about it. Things are not being improved by those who just want to whine and complain nor those who just want to hand out blame.

Here's a real-world example regarding one of Canada's "elephants in the room". When the MMIWG inquiry was starting, I recall a police chief and his organization suggesting it was wasting time. He said that everyone knows what is happening and the problem is that no-one is doing anything about it. Or words to that effect. Now the inquiry report has been given to the Liberals in Ottawa and they have done nothing about it except have the "leader of our country" kneel down at a protest about something else.

Just like I don't know how to actually accomplish anything about Blair's OIC, I don't know how to do anything about these kinds of problems. Although it's frustrating, I guess I'll just keep writing letters to politicians and making a few post to AO.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by sk270

Sorry you thought I was being personal. It was not my intention.

It is interesting because the article begins with a suggested solution when it describes the reasons for the problems.

One of the questions is related to how much should the rest of society do to change those situations and how much should we expect people to lift themselves up by their bootstraps.

I believe that there is a middle ground in which the greater society makes changes while enabling those affected to do something about it. Things are not being improved by those who just want to whine and complain nor those who just want to hand out blame.

Here's a real-world example regarding one of Canada's "elephants in the room". When the MMIWG inquiry was starting, I recall a police chief and his organization suggesting it was wasting time. He said that everyone knows what is happening and the problem is that no-one is doing anything about it. Or words to that effect. Now the inquiry report has been given to the Liberals in Ottawa and they have done nothing about it except have the "leader of our country" kneel down at a protest about something else.

Just like I don't know how to actually accomplish anything about Blair's OIC, I don't know how to do anything about these kinds of problems. Although it's frustrating, I guess I'll just keep writing letters to politicians and making a few post to AO.

What is MMIWG?

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

What is MMIWG?

Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls

Shouldn't have done that. I'm not usually a fan of mysterious acronyms. Just a lazy typist today.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by sk270

Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls

Is this issue something society is responsible for or does it start at home? Where does the responsibility lay? Contrary to popular belief, I’m not sure if the police look at race as much as they look at lifestyle. Perfect example is the white lady who was murdered in a south Edmonton hotel. Now the family is being denied victim support because of the victims prior criminal convictions. It can’t be about race because she’s white but would it be about race if she was indigenous? Most likely.


Whenever you hear about George Floyd you hear it was a white cop killing a black man but you never hear about the black cop or the Asian cop who were involved in his death, that wouldn’t fit the agenda.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I think it was here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race..._United_States



The 13% of the population comes from the link Sporty provided.


When you look at the stats it shows an obvious elephant in the room which should be addressed, or at least brought up in conversation. Find out why 13% of the population is responsible for 52% of murders, then use that as a starting point on how to make meaningful change in the US. The same could be said of Canada or any other nation.

Google the rates of fatherless families as it correlates to crime statistics. Numbers are staggering. Definitely some societal issues at play

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by sk270

Regarding Bessiedog's chart https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RL-CHyzgK1Q/maxresdefault.jpg



I just saw this discussion this morning so I am jumping in a bit late.

To answer Chuck's question, I think this chart was put together by a US attorney who did so because many sources that people consider to be ‘news sources’ are actually dominated by analysis and opinion pieces.

I have used a similar chart https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings, but Bessiedog's offers an additional dimension that seems useful.

We need the facts before we listen to other people's opinions. Then we can form our own opinions and try to make decisions. The current state of on-line media demands hyper-vigilance on our part. The situation is even worse when people think that Twitter and Facebook are good sources.

I just checked out the video in Chuck’s statistic thread and Larry Alder quotes the exact same numbers I posted.

Nothing will ever change because nobody will address all the issues for fear of being labeled.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Is this issue something society is responsible for or does it start at home? Where does the responsibility lay? Contrary to popular belief, I’m not sure if the police look at race as much as they look at lifestyle. Perfect example is the white lady who was murdered in a south Edmonton hotel. Now the family is being denied victim support because of the victims prior criminal convictions. It can’t be about race because she’s white but would it be about race if she was indigenous? Most likely.


Whenever you hear about George Floyd you hear it was a white cop killing a black man but you never hear about the black cop or the Asian cop who were involved in his death, that wouldn’t fit the agenda.

I agree that too many media sources editorialize and offer opinions not facts. Some do a lot of picking and choosing both in which stories they distribute (almost said print--showing my age) and exactly what they report about a given incident. This was mentioned in some of the posts above, with charts.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by sk270

Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls

Shouldn't have done that. I'm not usually a fan of mysterious acronyms. Just a lazy typist today.

The real elephant in the room no one wants to talk about with this issue is vast majority of the FN women who fall victim to this issue and an arrest is made it has been at the hands of a FN man. There is a majorly issue in the culture on many FN reserves that is not addressed because it would be racist to do so. This makes it difficult to investigate many of these missing FN women cases. FN reserves along the infamous “hwy of tears” are not exactly co operative with RCMP

Got to know a lot of FN in this area and you get to hear some really messed up issues regarding the reserves. There is a lot that is hidden by their community. There is also no lack of non FN victims

There is a huge outcry that it’s racist how a large portion of FN and mixed FN missing women cases go unsolved but there is also major lack of co operation from FN when it comes to investigating these crimes. RCMP also face being accused of being racist when investigating leads that bring them to a reservation. At times the RCMP are met with violence for even trying. I know of multiple cases where RCMP were shot at in the area trying to question or arrest suspects on some reserves. No charges laid in the end do to possible political backlash

Yes we have all kinds of race related issues in Canada but they are not cut and dry. No lack of hidden issues in Canada. Those who are racist come in all colors too

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by sk270

I agree that too many media sources editorialize and offer opinions not facts. Some do a lot of picking and choosing both in which stories they distribute (almost said print--showing my age) and exactly what they report about a given incident. This was mentioned in some of the posts above, with charts.

We all have to do our part....

I keep hearing this, I’m just not sure what “my part” is? I hear calls in the news to support locally owned businesses who’s owners are black..... That’s racist no? How will that help? How about I support local businesses who provide the service I need in a way I appreciate, no matter what race the owner is? Wouldn’t that suit the supposed agenda better? Promoting racism to combat racism seems a little counter productive to me.

What exactly is our role in making things better?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

The real elephant in the room no one wants to talk about with this issue is vast majority of the FN women who fall victim to this issue and an arrest is made it has been at the hands of a FN man. There is a majorly issue in the culture on many FN reserves that is not addressed because it would be racist to do so. This makes it difficult to investigate many of these missing FN women cases. FN reserves along the infamous “hwy of tears” are not exactly co operative with RCMP

Got to know a lot of FN in this area and you get to hear some really messed up issues regarding the reserves. There is a lot that is hidden by their community. There is also no lack of non FN victims

There is a huge outcry that it’s racist how a large portion of FN and mixed FN missing women cases go unsolved but there is also major lack of co operation from FN when it comes to investigating these crimes. RCMP also face being accused of being racist when investigating leads that bring them to a reservation. At times the RCMP are met with violence for even trying. I know of multiple cases where RCMP were shot at in the area trying to question or arrest suspects on some reserves. No charges laid in the end do to possible political backlash

Yes we have all kinds of race related issues in Canada but they are not cut and dry. No lack of hidden issues in Canada. Those who are racist come in all colors too

Worked with some really great first nations/natives when I was in the oil patch and one fella said to me which kinda put things into perspective...90 percent of our problems are us....he said a lot of crap goes on in the reserves that periodically spill out of the reserve but most is contained and never leaves....

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Worked with some really great first nations/natives when I was in the oil patch and one fella said to me which kinda put things into perspective...90 percent of our problems are us....he said a lot of crap goes on in the reserves that periodically spill out of the reserve but most is contained and never leaves....

You sure get to hear some crazy stories when you meet some good people who fled from a crazy childhood on the bad reserves.

II seems to really vary from reserve to reserve some have mild issues well others are down right messed up. The bad ones are almost unbelievable

[elkhunter11]

An interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfsu...zoCJO028iE_AaA

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by Glion

Google the rates of fatherless families as it correlates to crime statistics. Numbers are staggering. Definitely some societal issues at play

This right here is the main factor for the underlying reason for a life of crime. The fatherless factor is overwhelmingly the most determining factor into whether the child is going to end up in jail. Unfortunately a few racial demographics have a disproportionate number of children raised in a fatherless home. If we can figure a way to solve the fatherless problem that takes care of a lot of the problems.

[Osky]

Originally Posted by slough shark

This right here is the main factor for the underlying reason for a life of crime. The fatherless factor is overwhelmingly the most determining factor into whether the child is going to end up in jail. Unfortunately a few racial demographics have a disproportionate number of children raised in a fatherless home. If we can figure a way to solve the fatherless problem that takes care of a lot of the problems.

There is a way at least in America. Any woman expecting government aid raising a child must acknowledge who the father is and provide DNA to prove it. The father will then be held monetarily responsible wether personal income or from government welfare the father receives. The girls parents should also be financially responsible to a point out of their welfare.
In America minorities are offered birth control and a ton of other benefits free as well. Women are just as responsible for keeping their legs crossed, or at least using birth control if they want to be sexually active.

Osky

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Osky

There is a way at least in America. Any woman expecting government aid raising a child must acknowledge who the father is and provide DNA to prove it. The father will then be held monetarily responsible wether personal income or from government welfare the father receives. The girls parents should also be financially responsible to a point out of their welfare.
In America minorities are offered birth control and a ton of other benefits free as well. Women are just as responsible for keeping their legs crossed, or at least using birth control if they want to be sexually active.

Osky

Garishee his drug money.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by Osky

There is a way at least in America. Any woman expecting government aid raising a child must acknowledge who the father is and provide DNA to prove it. The father will then be held monetarily responsible wether personal income or from government welfare the father receives. The girls parents should also be financially responsible to a point out of their welfare.
In America minorities are offered birth control and a ton of other benefits free as well. Women are just as responsible for keeping their legs crossed, or at least using birth control if they want to be sexually active.

Osky

The financial aspect is one part of it but fathers bring a lot more to the table than a paycheque. It’s not just the fathers fault when there is a child born as it takes 2 to tangle, both men and women need to take charge and be responsible. Guys shouldn’t merely be a sperm donor, that kid is just as much responsibility as the woman’s.