Alberta Bowhunters Association- are you a member?

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Z7shooter

I also agree 100%! But if I had it my way, I would have more archery only zones in Alberta. THEN include crossbows.

Im not against rifle hunters or rifle hunting but they do get their advantages too. Like being able to shoot an animal at 200+ yards. They get early seasons in certain WMU's... Im not saying that we coulnt adjust the rules for rifles as well, for some early season hunting in different or whatever they would like.

At the end of the day its about numbers and harvest rates/percentages.

My MO isnt to EXCLUDE, but is to INCLUDE.

We are so close Z7, also Lefty, you seem to be talking out both sides of your mouths and maybe not realizing yet that you too want what i'm talking about.

Politics and selfish agendas are getting in the way of what should be done here for the entire hunting community/tradition. Rectify the big picture first.

I would always vote for more bow zones where they make sense, high population densities, sensitive areas etc. Totally agree with you there. Some tools just better suited and make more sense for these things. I think about land owners and the general public also when talking about this, not just the hunters. I'm friends with land owners and quite frankly feel sorry for them near big centers come oct 25th and nov 1st...the shizzo they deal with every year makes me stay well clear but they let me play in the bow seasons. No safety concerns, no noise, no zillion road hunters etc. So yes there is a time and place for bows...but to exclude an excellent versatile bow option from this makes zero sense.

The rifle stuff is well sorted out and has been for a long time, no need to mess with that. The bow hunting thing isn't and really the only thing missing is a great tool has been ignored and thrown in the wrong seasons where it's massively under utilized. If you can let this tool into bow zones on a dr's note why not a centerfire rifle? Why? Because it's a bow...that's why. Can you imagine if you could get rifles into bow zones on a dr's note how many people would be getting dr's notes???? Keep trying to call it a gun.

You'll come around.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Lol. Whatever you say Stinky, I have been called anti-crossbow to which I am
Not. Selfish, to which I am not...a bunch of other things because my opinion differs. My position is based on sheer numbers vs. Opportunity and the fact so many people do not seize the available opportunity...those so passionate about crossbow use don’t use them when they can use a rifle in the same zone at the same time...that’s their choice. I choose to use a bow in those scenarios, that my choice.

Do you believe tag allocations and zones that are not yet on draw would stay that way with inclusion? Certain areas can sustain additional harvest, others cannot. I truly feel that in Alberta we are at a tipping point, the way things are seems to work. We need to work on a few thing before we consider including crossbows....one of which is defining who should hunt here as a resident and what qualifies them to do so.

Your “1000” club uses P&Y scoring, why not use SCI? If they grow it they should score it don’t descriminate with deductions!...P&Y doesn’t recognize crossbow harvests either...canvass them for change . SCI puts everyone in the same class regardless of tool...support them!

Don’t get started on people getting Doctor Notes who don’t need them...

It’s only My opinion get over it

LC

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Lol. Whatever you say Stinky, I have been called anti-crossbow to which I am
Not. Selfish, to which I am not...a bunch of other things because my opinion differs. My position is based on sheer numbers vs. Opportunity and the fact so many people do not seize the available opportunity...those so passionate about crossbow use don’t use them when they can use a rifle in the same zone at the same time...that’s their choice. I choose to use a bow in those scenarios, that my choice.

Do you believe tag allocations and zones that are not yet on draw would stay that way with inclusion? Certain areas can sustain additional harvest, others cannot. I truly feel that in Alberta we are at a tipping point, the way things are seems to work. We need to work on a few thing before we consider including crossbows....one of which is defining who should hunt here as a resident and what qualifies them to do so.

Your “1000” club uses P&Y scoring, why not use SCI? If they grow it they should score it don’t descriminate with deductions!...P&Y doesn’t recognize crossbow harvests either...canvass them for change . SCI puts everyone in the same class regardless of tool...support them!

Don’t get started on people getting Doctor Notes who don’t need them...

It’s only My opinion get over it

LC

Like i said, talking out both sides without realizing it.

Out the left side of your mouth you say your not selfish, and out the right side of your mouth you say we are at a tipping point on percentages and more things will go on draw so we need to preserve that.

The list goes on, if it's not the tipping point argument or the definition of archery argument then it's some other selfish based argument. Just keep bouncing around on these smaller picture points to deflect and delay.

Missing the big picture completely.

Archery, bows, anything that flicks a broadhead tipped stick off a string...is popular period and only getting more popular, and for good reason, it's hunting period, way more so than with anything that goes boom.

We(read human beings) are the planets biggest virus...our numbers don't go down, they only go up, one way or another your tipping point argument will happen whether this bow/archery faux pas is corrected or not.

This is about improvement to all hunting period. You are fighting the inclusion of a certain bow from our bow seasons due to selfish reasons, period. Having a one size fits all bow that can get close to equalize the proficiency of a 12 year old with a 30-40 year old male with 30" draw to an 80 year old in bow hunting situations is 100% beneficial to hunting. The more people bowhunting the better, period. And i say close in proficiency...the compound will always be the most versatile bow in the quiver and the most skilled compound guy vs the most skilled traditional or crossbow user will still be the most deadly out there. It'll be far more about the hunter than the tool, trying to pick fly shat out of pepper at that point of comparison.

Boomstick seasons don't have this glaring difference. We typically hand our youth a modern centerfire with a scope good to 2-300 yards to get started there...not a 30-30 with iron sights. Although plenty of talented hunters with a 30-30 will easily out kill the newb's with latest whiz bang 800 yard wondersticks...actually many talented bowhunters will also outkill same newbs with the latest boomsticks. To leave the crossbow excluded from our bowhunting seasons just doesn't compute on any level when you put all the politics and agendas aside. So this is where you start.

I'll get one as soon as the inclusion happens. Not for me currently as i love the compound and am very versatile with it, but for a variety of reasons starting with my kids first couple years, introduction tool to introduce friends and fam, for when i'm old and hurt, as a back up bow for the family should someone have an issue with their bow or injury mid-season to get by and still put the meat on the table and enjoy the pursuit while season still on. Bow shops can be super busy during the season etc. We have back up rifles now don't we? Three or four family members having a couple bows each or maybe just one backup bow for the family? Hmmm

Anyway. I can see the conflict within you, you'll come around. Fingers crossed.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Don’t get started on people getting Doctor Notes who don’t need them...


LC

We fix this and no doctors need to be involved in hunting period.

Put the quiet safe 50 yard broadhead tipped stick flickers together and call it a day. The world will be a better place.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Like i said, talking out both sides without realizing it.

Out the left side of your mouth you say your not selfish, and out the right side of your mouth you say we are at a tipping point on percentages and more things will go on draw so we need to preserve that.

The list goes on, if it's not the tipping point argument or the definition of archery argument then it's some other selfish based argument. Just keep bouncing around on these smaller picture points to deflect and delay.

Missing the big picture completely.

Archery, bows, anything that flicks a broadhead tipped stick off a string...is popular period and only getting more popular, and for good reason, it's hunting period, way more so than with anything that goes boom.

We(read human beings) are the planets biggest virus...our numbers don't go down, they only go up, one way or another your tipping point argument will happen whether this bow/archery faux pas is corrected or not.

This is about improvement to all hunting period. You are fighting the inclusion of a certain bow from our bow seasons due to selfish reasons, period. Having a one size fits all bow that can get close to equalize the proficiency of a 12 year old with a 30-40 year old male with 30" draw to an 80 year old in bow hunting situations is 100% beneficial to hunting. The more people bowhunting the better, period. And i say close in proficiency...the compound will always be the most versatile bow in the quiver and the most skilled compound guy vs the most skilled traditional or crossbow user will still be the most deadly out there. It'll be far more about the hunter than the tool, trying to pick fly shat out of pepper at that point of comparison.

Boomstick seasons don't have this glaring difference. We typically hand our youth a modern centerfire with a scope good to 2-300 yards to get started there...not a 30-30 with iron sights. Although plenty of talented hunters with a 30-30 will easily out kill the newb's with latest whiz bang 800 yard wondersticks...actually many talented bowhunters will also outkill same newbs with the latest boomsticks. To leave the crossbow excluded from our bowhunting seasons just doesn't compute on any level when you put all the politics and agendas aside. So this is where you start.

I'll get one as soon as the inclusion happens. Not for me currently as i love the compound and am very versatile with it, but for a variety of reasons starting with my kids first couple years, introduction tool to introduce friends and fam, for when i'm old and hurt, as a back up bow for the family should someone have an issue with their bow or injury mid-season to get by and still put the meat on the table and enjoy the pursuit while season still on. Bow shops can be super busy during the season etc. We have back up rifles now don't we? Three or four family members having a couple bows each or maybe just one backup bow for the family? Hmmm

Anyway. I can see the conflict within you, you'll come around. Fingers crossed.

So when the rifle hunter comes knocking and wants the same extended seasons, special zones, and access to general tags as the crossbow/bow hunters, you will be fine with them calling you selfish?

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

So when the rifle hunter comes knocking and wants the same extended seasons, special zones, and access to general tags as the crossbow/bow hunters, you will be fine with them calling you selfish?

And also on the topic of speaking out of both sides, why exactly would a crossbow be a sufficient back up for the entire family and offer the ability to take a newbie “bow hunting” without much preparation?

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

So when the rifle hunter comes knocking and wants the same extended seasons, special zones, and access to general tags as the crossbow/bow hunters, you will be fine with them calling you selfish?

I suppose if their harvest success rates drop from 80-90% down to 10-20% the topic could be addressed although we tend to keep improving things as a species not go backwards....exactly what i'm talking about here. It is what it is. Oh, and convince the residents etc. in the already made bow zones that boomsticks are a great tool for high population density areas...sure.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Lol, I have already said if the time comes I cannot pull back the minimum required poundage, I’ll apply for a permit and go through the proper channels that currently exist.

For a guy who is so against crossbows (actually not against them, despite what you may think) that should make your head spin lol.

I think they should look at current Bowzone expansion as urban sprawl has gotten larger...and I am cool with the Oct-Dec season that is inclusive of crossbows in the appropriate areas of 248, it makes sense to allow them in those areas to maintain harvest goals and do it safely with minimal chance of damage that can be caused by rifles.

Anyhow that’s my final word on this in this thread, OP is a life member...mission accomplished

LC

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

And also on the topic of speaking out of both sides, why exactly would a crossbow be a sufficient back up for the entire family and offer the ability to take a newbie “bow hunting” without much preparation?

Ah, like getting within 50 yards of game and zipping an arrow through them isn't bowhunting? The hunting guide better be pretty good...oh...or do you mean archery instructor also? Gotta be both eh? Or maybe since it's bowhunting one could focus a fair bit more on the hunting part of it with introducing new hunters and let them play more in the archery side of things as they desire or not desire? Whatever.

But maybe you are right that only one crossbow might not be sufficient back up for a family of bowhunters? Really if the family had enough bowhunters you might need two crossbows as back up as you could have a more than one issue with a bow, and or, hunter crop up in a season? Good point.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Lol, I have already said if the time comes I cannot pull back the minimum required poundage, I’ll apply for a permit and go through the proper channels that currently exist.

For a guy who is so against crossbows (actually not against them, despite what you may think) that should make your head spin lol.

I think they should look at current Bowzone expansion as urban sprawl has gotten larger...and I am cool with the Oct-Dec season that is inclusive of crossbows in the appropriate areas of 248, it makes sense to allow them in those areas to maintain harvest goals and do it safely with minimal chance of damage that can be caused by rifles.

Anyhow that’s my final word on this in this thread, OP is a life member...mission accomplished

LC

Yup, adjust as you go, if bowzones need longer seasons i'm all for it, if they need more tools i'm all for it. The standard list of tools needs to be upgraded to 21st century understanding first though. Again, you've got the right idea, just missing a tool where it fits.

As far as the first part though...i get your obsession with one tool, one brand of truck, one brand of bow manufacturer, the majority don't get as ocd and singular about tools though. We are all however passionate about hunting, so we have that. Lump the tools where they make sense, the cart is supposed to be behind the horse.

When you put hunting first the math is pretty easy on this subject.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

I suppose if their harvest success rates drop from 80-90% down to 10-20% the topic could be addressed although we tend to keep improving things as a species not go backwards....exactly what i'm talking about here. It is what it is. Oh, and convince the residents etc. in the already made bow zones that boomsticks are a great tool for high population density areas...sure.

Currently right now crossbows ARE part of the 80-90% harvest success rate.

What if the rifle hunters want 2 dedicated zones in wilderness areas with almost no residence but an abundance of wildlife. To even things up lets say. You would be ok with not being allowed in there with a crossbow or bow? Would the rifle hunters be selfish then?

There is an accepted level of difficulty associated to hunting big game with archery tackle. Because of that accepted difficulty, special privileges are given to hunter who choose to use archery tackle; this is a very basic concept. Currently the "powers that be" do not consider a crossbow to have the same level of difficulty as archery tackle. Your own words speak to this...

I'll get one as soon as the inclusion happens. Not for me currently as i love the compound and am very versatile with it, but for a variety of reasons starting with my kids first couple years, introduction tool to introduce friends and fam, for when i'm old and hurt, as a back up bow for the family should someone have an issue with their bow or injury mid-season to get by and still put the meat on the table and enjoy the pursuit while season still on. Bow shops can be super busy during the season etc. We have back up rifles now don't we? Three or four family members having a couple bows each or maybe just one backup bow for the family? Hmmm

Everything you have written is a great idea, but it supports the argument that a crossbow is easier to use then a bow. Just like a muzzle loader is easier to use than a bow and a rifle is easier to use than a bow. Now once the "powers that be" change their views, which usually changed by coming in line with the public majority views, then maybe crossbows will be added to the archery seasons.

And if you want to introduce someone to the concept of archery hunting by using a crossbow, that is a wonderful idea and luckily there are numerous zones and seasons that a crossbow can currently be used.

[petew]

I can't help wonder how much of this "need" for crossbows in Archery is driven by the outfitting industry? It sure would be good for business.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Lol, I have already said if the time comes I cannot pull back the minimum required poundage, I’ll apply for a permit and go through the proper channels that currently exist.

For a guy who is so against crossbows (actually not against them, despite what you may think) that should make your head spin lol.

I think they should look at current Bowzone expansion as urban sprawl has gotten larger...and I am cool with the Oct-Dec season that is inclusive of crossbows in the appropriate areas of 248, it makes sense to allow them in those areas to maintain harvest goals and do it safely with minimal chance of damage that can be caused by rifles.

Anyhow that’s my final word on this in this thread, OP is a life member...mission accomplished

LC

OP life member....as a rookie joining...little premature don't ya say?....did you sell him ocean front property in saskatchewan



Thanks for all the info, got me researching various clubs agendas, and now I don't need that spread in Piapot saskabush overlooking a beauty ocean front...

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Z7shooter

ABA just received a Lifetime Membership Application this morning. Thanks everyone for the information.

You were saying 58 “le chat”?

LC

[calgarychef]

This could al be taken care of by getting rid of compounds as well as crossbows

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Currently right now crossbows ARE part of the 80-90% harvest success rate.

What if the rifle hunters want 2 dedicated zones in wilderness areas with almost no residence but an abundance of wildlife. To even things up lets say. You would be ok with not being allowed in there with a crossbow or bow? Would the rifle hunters be selfish then?

There is an accepted level of difficulty associated to hunting big game with archery tackle. Because of that accepted difficulty, special privileges are given to hunter who choose to use archery tackle; this is a very basic concept. Currently the "powers that be" do not consider a crossbow to have the same level of difficulty as archery tackle. Your own words speak to t

I'll get one as soon as the inclusion happens. Not for me currently as i love the compound and am very versatile with it, but for a variety of reasons starting with my kids first couple years, introduction tool to introduce friends and fam, for when i'm old and hurt, as a back up bow for the family should someone have an issue with their bow or injury mid-season to get by and still put the meat on the table and enjoy the pursuit while season still on. Bow shops can be super busy during the season etc. We have back up rifles now don't we? Three or four family members having a couple bows each or maybe just one backup bow for the family? Hmmm

Everything you have written is a great idea, but it supports the argument that a crossbow is easier to use then a bow. Just like a muzzle loader is easier to use than a bow and a rifle is easier to use than a bow. Now once the "powers that be" change their views, which usually changed by coming in line with the public majority views, then maybe crossbows will be added to the archery seasons.

And if you want to introduce someone to the concept of archery hunting by using a crossbow, that is a wonderful idea and luckily there are numerous zones and seasons that a crossbow can currently be used.

If using current archery tackle is as difficult as many of you compound cheerleaders seem to think it is, it's well past the time to administer a mandatory proficiency exam prior to acquiring a tag or entering the draw system...and the same should apply to firearms as well for that matter. There are far too many incompetents out there that are plugging up the system. Proficiency testing will leave more than enough room to allow others of different tackle persuasions and more proficiency to enter wherever and whenever they wish. Prove yourself, earn your way in and stop treating the Bowhunting venue as a God given right to a select few. Long overdue !

If mandatory proficiency testing would have been implemented 20 years ago we wouldn't be in this situation.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

This could al be taken care of by getting rid of compounds as well as crossbows

When you're not running the show anymore, you've become owned

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Lol, I have already said if the time comes I cannot pull back the minimum required poundage, I’ll apply for a permit and go through the proper channels that currently exist.

You have it all figured out, eh? Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way. Too bad if you get too weak due to old age or whatever. You have to have a permanent disability or an injury that you won’t recover from in three years in order to get a permit. This is what Salavee tried to explain to you.

https://mywildalberta.ca/buy-licence...et-Jun2011.pdf

[Ultimate Predator]

Hunter dave shoul be the president of the alberta cross gun association! Then you could have 3d shoots and give prizes away like a new crank draw system, 4x scopes , bipods because thats the same as bowhunting? Give your head a shake ! Im for all types of hunting but dont try to compare the 2 !get your club startedand lobby for what ever you want but i doubt it would happen if you cant pick up a bow n practice , practice, practice!

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

You were saying 58 “le chat”?

LC

I knew you couldn't stay away

Learnt something from you too lefty, we might be on the opposit side of the fence on various discussions but we enjoy the outdoors, the hunt and the fact that a 270 is better than a 30-06

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Salavee

If using current archery tackle is as difficult as many of you compound cheerleaders seem to think it is, it's well past the time to administer a mandatory proficiency exam prior to acquiring a tag or entering the draw system...and the same should apply to firearms as well for that matter. There are far too many incompetents out there that are plugging up the system. Proficiency testing will leave more than enough room to allow others of different tackle persuasions and more proficiency to enter wherever and whenever they wish. Prove yourself, earn your way in and stop treating the Bowhunting venue as a God given right to a select few. Long overdue !

If mandatory proficiency testing would have been implemented 20 years ago we wouldn't be in this situation.

Wow, great idea.

What would the testing involve? How often? Where would you hold it? Who would administer it? Appeal process if you fail? Funding? Restrictions and limits? Licensing....... everybody loves licensing.

There was 130000 hunter in Alberta in 2016, good luck.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Currently right now crossbows ARE part of the 80-90% harvest success rate.

What if the rifle hunters want 2 dedicated zones in wilderness areas with almost no residence but an abundance of wildlife. To even things up lets say. You would be ok with not being allowed in there with a crossbow or bow? Would the rifle hunters be selfish then?

There is an accepted level of difficulty associated to hunting big game with archery tackle. Because of that accepted difficulty, special privileges are given to hunter who choose to use archery tackle; this is a very basic concept. Currently the "powers that be" do not consider a crossbow to have the same level of difficulty as archery tackle. Your own words speak to this...

I'll get one as soon as the inclusion happens. Not for me currently as i love the compound and am very versatile with it, but for a variety of reasons starting with my kids first couple years, introduction tool to introduce friends and fam, for when i'm old and hurt, as a back up bow for the family should someone have an issue with their bow or injury mid-season to get by and still put the meat on the table and enjoy the pursuit while season still on. Bow shops can be super busy during the season etc. We have back up rifles now don't we? Three or four family members having a couple bows each or maybe just one backup bow for the family? Hmmm

Everything you have written is a great idea, but it supports the argument that a crossbow is easier to use then a bow. Just like a muzzle loader is easier to use than a bow and a rifle is easier to use than a bow. Now once the "powers that be" change their views, which usually changed by coming in line with the public majority views, then maybe crossbows will be added to the archery seasons.

And if you want to introduce someone to the concept of archery hunting by using a crossbow, that is a wonderful idea and luckily there are numerous zones and seasons that a crossbow can currently be used.

There is an accepted level of difficulty getting a shot opportunity within bow range with a bow. One bow you can draw further in advance than the other but without rest is hard af to hold steady for long at all, the other you still draw in advance but just in advance yet the draw and anchor actually stabilizes you and you can hold it for longer...you still punch the trigger at the moment of truth. Look, you can keep arguing that there is some major difference here but harvest stats all over show crossbows as essentially the same. If slightly more effective in the hands of the newbs then good, stats look a little better as more are recovered! End of day by hunting standards and harvest stats it's very clearly a bow and these little differences are both positives and negatives. The compound is the most versatile choice, always will be. The crossbow is a one trick pony, it has as many disadvantages as advantages. Moot.

These semantics have already been argued and the answers are already known. The big difference of opinion here is that you think all bow options are supposed to be more difficult to master and that is a good thing? Whereas there's a perfectly good bow option available that would make perfect sense for a good amount of people that really shouldn't be flicking arrows with vertical bows at this point but still are. I just happen to think that the option to have the bolt action scoped rifles will be the smarter choice for many vs the iron sighted lever action. Better for the game, better for the people, it's win win and you feel it's lose lose. Selfishness is the core reason behind that, not logic.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Wow, great idea.

What would the testing involve? How often? Where would you hold it? Who would administer it? Appeal process if you fail? Funding? Restrictions and limits? Licensing....... everybody loves licensing.

There was 130000 hunter in Alberta in 2016, good luck.

Like a drivers license. perhaps, renew every 5 years like your PAL. Same with bow permit, 5 years, reprove yourself. You can't buy a wildlife certificate without passing the firearms test, wildlife certificate good for the five years then, same with bow permit, pass the bow test and good for 5 years, win card stamped with a letter for each...like air brake endorsement on your license lol. Anyway, that was my knee jerk answer to that.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Like a drivers license. perhaps, renew every 5 years like your PAL. Same with bow permit, 5 years, reprove yourself. You can't buy a wildlife certificate without passing the firearms test, wildlife certificate good for the five years then, same with bow permit, pass the bow test and good for 5 years, win card stamped with a letter for each...like air brake endorsement on your license lol. Anyway, that was my knee jerk answer to that.

Ok, so with current hunter numbers and a 5 year renewal, you would have 130000 hunters tested initially and 26000 renewals a year. Lets say that a range like SPFGR could dedicate 1, 8 lane range for testing. Lets say the test takes 1 hour. That means you could test 64 people a day or even if it was 1/2 hour that would be 128 per day. 26000 renewals per year, you would need 203 range days based on a 1/2 hour renewal test. You have to do 5 times that in the 1st year and factor in 5-10% growth rate. Who would run the program and administer the testing? We can't get enough CO as it is.


What would the test look like?
Persons are already tested on the safe handling of firearms on the PAL course so is it an accuracy test only?
What range would you test firearm accuracy at?
What would you set the bar at. 3 round, 2 inch group at 100? 3 round 4 inch group at 200?
What about the guy who only wants to use irons and bush hunt?
What about the guy that wants to shoot at 600 yards but only qualified at 200?
Should there be a safe handling course for bows?
What range would you test archery tackle at?
Would there be different requirements for trad vs compound vs crossbow?
If I qualify at 40 yards and then shoot an animal at 50, is that poaching?
What if I fail the qualification? Can I appeal? Is there a re-test?

This is my knee "jerk" response....

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Predator

Hunter dave shoul be the president of the alberta cross gun association! Then you could have 3d shoots and give prizes away like a new crank draw system, 4x scopes , bipods because thats the same as bowhunting? Give your head a shake ! Im for all types of hunting but dont try to compare the 2 !get your club startedand lobby for what ever you want but i doubt it would happen if you cant pick up a bow n practice , practice, practice!

Yeah, nah. I don't think that Alberta needs another self interest group.

So what would the aim of this crossbow association be? To lobby for crossbow only zones to keep those pesky traditional archery users out? Maybe lobby to get our own allocation on draws to increase our chances? Since so many people would pick up a crossbow I think that 10% of tags would be reasonable. That would still leave 5% for traditional archery users.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Ok, so with current hunter numbers and a 5 year renewal, you would have 130000 hunters tested initially and 26000 renewals a year. Lets say that a range like SPFGR could dedicate 1, 8 lane range for testing. Lets say the test takes 1 hour. That means you could test 64 people a day or even if it was 1/2 hour that would be 128 per day. 26000 renewals per year, you would need 203 range days based on a 1/2 hour renewal test. You have to do 5 times that in the 1st year and factor in 5-10% growth rate. Who would run the program and administer the testing? We can't get enough CO as it is.


What would the test look like?
Persons are already tested on the safe handling of firearms on the PAL course so is it an accuracy test only?
What range would you test firearm accuracy at?
What would you set the bar at. 3 round, 2 inch group at 100? 3 round 4 inch group at 200?
What about the guy who only wants to use irons and bush hunt?
What about the guy that wants to shoot at 600 yards but only qualified at 200?
Should there be a safe handling course for bows?
What range would you test archery tackle at?
Would there be different requirements for trad vs compound vs crossbow?
If I qualify at 40 yards and then shoot an animal at 50, is that poaching?
What if I fail the qualification? Can I appeal? Is there a re-test?

This is my knee "jerk" response....

Lol, that's a good one imo.

Personally whatever it takes to fix our bow problem.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Ok, so with current hunter numbers and a 5 year renewal, you would have 130000 hunters tested initially and 26000 renewals a year. Lets say that a range like SPFGR could dedicate 1, 8 lane range for testing. Lets say the test takes 1 hour. That means you could test 64 people a day or even if it was 1/2 hour that would be 128 per day. 26000 renewals per year, you would need 203 range days based on a 1/2 hour renewal test. You have to do 5 times that in the 1st year and factor in 5-10% growth rate. Who would run the program and administer the testing? We can't get enough CO as it is.


What would the test look like?
Persons are already tested on the safe handling of firearms on the PAL course so is it an accuracy test only?
What range would you test firearm accuracy at?
What would you set the bar at. 3 round, 2 inch group at 100? 3 round 4 inch group at 200?
What about the guy who only wants to use irons and bush hunt?
What about the guy that wants to shoot at 600 yards but only qualified at 200?
Should there be a safe handling course for bows?
What range would you test archery tackle at?
Would there be different requirements for trad vs compound vs crossbow?
If I qualify at 40 yards and then shoot an animal at 50, is that poaching?
What if I fail the qualification? Can I appeal? Is there a re-test?

This is my knee "jerk" response....

Knee Jerk response or otherwise, it implies that you are opposed to any type of proficiency examination, even when it comes to such a complex and difficult tool to master as a Compound Bow.

If proof of proficiency is such a bad idea it would be interesting to see your list of reasons why. Listing what you see as potential barriers to effective
testing is fine but those can be addressed. Similar testing has been implemented and proven effective in Europe and elsewhere for many years so many good examination models already exist. Where there is a will, there is a way.

[Stinky Coyote]

What would be interesting is if there was a proficiency test and they could compare the results from the vertical bow users to the horizontal bow users....

And I don't just mean those who pass but also those who fail...

To draw a comparison to harvest success stats between those two types of bows, i think it would be safe to say that those who fail or however many shots land outside killzones depending on how the testing is set up... would qualify as another animal harvested...just not recovered due to improper placement etc.

I bet the 1-3 percent differences you see between those two bow options would tighten up significantly if 'shots fired' outside the kill zones were accounted for in these stats.

It's a bow.

[KyleSS]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Knee Jerk response or otherwise, it implies that you are opposed to any type of proficiency examination, even when it comes to such a complex and difficult tool to master as a Compound Bow.

If proof of proficiency is such a bad idea it would be interesting to see your list of reasons why. Listing what you see as potential barriers to effective
testing is fine but those can be addressed. Similar testing has been implemented and proven effective in Europe and elsewhere for many years so many good examination models already exist. Where there is a will, there is a way.

How does it IMPLY that he is opposed to it? Man, if that is the conclusion that you came to after reading that then I want what ever you're smoking. What I took out of it is the real world logistical challenges around proficiency training and questions around real world situations that I don't think I would have thought of.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by KyleSS

How does it IMPLY that he is opposed to it? Man, if that is the conclusion that you came to after reading that then I want what ever you're smoking. What I took out of it is the real world logistical challenges around proficiency training and questions around real world situations that I don't think I would have thought of.

Me ,sharing my stuff with a staunch ABA member ? .. are you kidding ?
Maybe next time.

Of course there would be logistical issues involved, but none that couldn't be dealt with if the will was there. As indicated, there are efficient working models already in place.