New to hunting - anyone ever have moral dilemma's with it?

[HuskyFan]

Hey Guys,

I'm 100% completely new to hunting, never did it in my life, and was never raised around it, but I'm interested in trying it and for certain aspects it really interests me.

I like the idea of hunting to provide for myself and family, and I think it could be an invaluable skill to have in unpredicatable situations later in life. However I'm not sure I have it in me for the "sporting" aspect of it.

I could see myself hunting for deer/elk/moose etc, and enjoying the huge amount of food it would provide for my family and friends. And I don't see this really any different than how we get our grocery store meats (maybe its even more humane in some ways?). But I don't really see myself enjoying the "trophy" side of things, and I'm curious if there are others out there that are the same way?

For instance going wolf/bear/cougar hunting just for the sake of killing it really would bother me I think. I have a hard time even looking at some of the pics on this forum for that reason (the wolf thing really gets to me for some reason, maybe because I'm a dog lover?). However I respect the choice that some people make by doing it, and I have no problem with what others do as long as its legal.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm curious if anyone else's hunting interests ever conflict with their personal morals/conscience? Or if others have a hard time with the "killing" aspect of hunting (as stupid as that might sound)?

[Ryry4]

I've never had a moral dilemma about hunting. There are plenty of people that hunt for just meat, and that is totally fine. Personally I'd consider myself a trophy hunter and that's never bothered my at all. Do what you feel is right for yourself and enjoy every minute you spend in the outdoors.

On a side note, every predator that we trophy hunters harvests ensures that there are more elk, moose and deer for the meat hunters. We hunters help to keep a healthy balance of predator/prey. Too many predators and ungulate numbers take a nose dive.

[huntinstuff]

There is no moral issue about it.

Hunting is collecting meat yourself.
Trophy hunting is collecting meat, and collecting the antlers or horns of the animal.
Shooting a wolf or bear for its fur is preferrable to me than buying a rug from China made by a 9 yr old.

No one says you have to shoot a trophy animal. Actually I prefer you dont. Increases my odds in getting one.

Buying meat at the store and hunting. One, the dirty work is done by someone else.
I prefer to collect my own. I support the local butcher, but I hardly rely on him

As for the wolf scenario, a wolf is not a dog. As a matter of fact, a wolf will lure ypur dog away, hump it, kill it, and eat it within 15 minutes.

[densa44]

I may have had a conflict until I saw coyotes kill and eat ALL my chickens and I don't know how many of our cats.

I now work very hard to kill all of them that I can.

Other than pests eat what you shoot, no moral conflict!

[jaylow?]

i have such a moral battle in my head when im eating hot italian deer sausage , pepperoni , steaks , jerky and roasts.

[savage shooter]

Spend some time on a farm and help with the butchering of farm animals.

You will become instantly desensitized.

Hunting is far more humane than some of things done on a farm in my experience.

[Morsky]

A rhetorical question when asked here, kinda like asking why people climb mountains on a mountain climbing form or why cyclists like biking across the province. Silly cyclists wasting all that energy for nadda!

I'm betting everyone here does it cause it's fun as hell, if the following pic does not evoke a sense of adventure, fun, accomplishment I'm not sure your built for the sport.

[huntinstuff]

That picture is simply incredible

[gunslinger]

Originally Posted by Morsky

A rhetorical question when asked here, kinda like asking why people climb mountains on a mountain climbing form or why cyclists like biking across the province. Silly cyclists wasting all that energy for nadda!

I'm betting everyone here does it cause it's fun as hell, if the following pic does not evoke a sense of adventure, fun, accomplishment I'm not sure your built for the sport.

That is one of the best photos i think i have ever seen, One time i swung a book grizzly over my shoulder with the head still in it and it dwarfed my head, but that picture has everything hunting is all about. What a bear.

[HuskyFan]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

As for the wolf scenario, a wolf is not a dog. As a matter of fact, a wolf will lure ypur dog away, hump it, kill it, and eat it within 15 minutes.

Haha I like how you put that.

Still don't think I could shoot one, but it's good to keep things in perspective.

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by HuskyFan

Haha I like how you put that.

Still don't think I could shoot one, but it's good to keep things in perspective.

And its perfectly fine to not shoot one. Your choice. Thats the beauty of hunting. You choose.
I wish you much success and enjoyment

[Straightgun]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

As for the wolf scenario, a wolf is not a dog. As a matter of fact, a wolf will lure ypur dog away, hump it, kill it, and eat it within 15 minutes.

....wwhat, what do they want to do to fluffy? rape him?

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by Straightgun

....wwhat, what do they want to do to fluffy? rape him?

If his name is Fluffy, he probably deserves it .......

[LongDraw]

The great thing about a moral dilemma is that if something does not fall within your morals then you don't have to do it.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

If his name is Fluffy, he probably deserves it .......

THANK YOU



Incredible pic Morsky.....thank you for posting it .

tm

[Dr. Phil A]

"For instance going wolf/bear/cougar hunting just for the sake of killing it really would bother me I think. I have a hard time even looking at some of the pics on this forum for that reason (the wolf thing really gets to me for some reason, maybe because I'm a dog lover?). However I respect the choice that some people make by doing it, and I have no problem with what others do as long as its legal.

I have two dogs and they are my buds. They provide me with a lot of enjoyment but it has never stopped me from pounding coyotes. Shot four on Saturday morning. I know what they can do to livestock and pets.

I won't shoot them in the spring or summer but once fall hits it is game on.

[Newfie01]

Personally I am a fairly new hunter and i really enjoy it. I am quite the fan of wild game and the satisfaction that comes from it. I try to use what i can from the animal, I attempted twice to tan hides. Hopefully il the the chance to try again this year, maybe do a european mount if i get a buck. I dont find it hard at all to shoot a deer or a bird, etc. The only thing i feel is recoil and satisfaction of a good hunt.

[altaberg]

Why should I have a problem with hunting?

Two things, the deer I have killed in recent years had a good life.
The ate well based on the shape they were in, lived on pretty nice crown land and had probably more (good) sex than some people I know.
They also weren't fed with growth hormones and antibiotics.
They died a quick and fast death in the prime of life.
Ever been to a pig farm?

Second, I quote David Petersen from a book on Hunting Philosophy that sums it up nicely:
"... a self-evident biological fact that hunting's harshest critics fail to grasp - or at least to acknowledge - is that a ..need to be hunted is built into all evolved prey species. Without the perpetual continuation of the precise sort of mental and physical exercise provided by evasion and predation, our spectacular prey species, so beautifully crafted by the artful knife of natural predation, would soon devolve into mere thin shadows of their wild selves"

In other words, deer are beautiful, agile, fast animals with keen senses BECAUSE they are hunted. Let them not be hunted for five generations and see what will happen.

and from the same source:
" Predation and evasion comprise a sacred game, without which no living thing would be the same - without which no living thing would even be. In a world without predation - where no living organism sucks sustennance from other living organisms - there would be no adaptive evolution, no food, no quality control via culling of the least fit, and no you and me."

I spent hours today walking cut lines, blocks and old logging roads and saw quite a few deer. Only one ( and a moose for which I didn;t have a tag) stood still long enough to contemplate a shot. I had a choice between a head shot and a "Texas heart shot" in high grass and passed. All the other deer I stalked or spooked were too quick. That's hunting and I still had a great day.

[Speckle55]

I am doing what my forefathers have done for generations back to the Caveman .. i put some of the meat on my table and fish /birds .. while i do kill predators i eat bear and use the hides of wolfs/coyotes and other animals as garments .horns as buttons and others parts a jewelery etc

perspective = 1 wolf will kill 1 ungulate every 7 days if it is in Alberta and in Cariboo range that means threatend species.. if the pack is small the Alpha female will drop more eggs and have more pups if feed is good.. we sent Wolfs to USA the next four years would have those areas back to normal pack size for those areas where the Wolfs were taken from..

Years ago in Jasper town site and Snaring camp ground two coyote's attacked two children in one year .. the first a couple of fisherman saved child about 4 after he was hit and tried to take him down will he was with his older sister.. the second was a two year old in Jasper townsite that was playing in his back yard and was grabbed and it was trying to get him over a 2 ft fence when his mom came out to save.. This year at Pocohantas a cougar attack a dog on a leash and took dog .

in the Hinton /Edson area 4 Cougars were shot by hunters when they were stalked this year and the CO officer put out a warning to hunters to be aware

every year around Alberta Wolfs and coyotes etc kill dogs and cats and Farmers calfs chickens horses cattle ..

some hunting of predators keeps natures balance and its does not affected the whole balance.. the same as hunting.


PS please do not step on the GRASS i hear the Grass and Bugs and Organism Screaming as you kill them

Food for Thought
David

[Albertadiver]

This is something I struggle with. As a boy, my family hunted on the farm. When they moved into the city, my dad stopped hunting and my exposure to it ceased.

This year, for some reason I'm struggling with who I am as a hunter a fair bit.

Fast forward 15years, I decided I wanted to try it myself. I've hunted now for 5 years, and here's what I love.

I love being in the outdoors, hiking, exploring, seeing nature at its finest and sometimes harshest. I love looking for the animals I hunt. I enjoy shooting, and improving my skills. I HATE killing. I struggle everytime I pull the trigger on an animal I'm about to shoot for food. I hate seeing a deer take it's last breath or suffer. So, I try my hardest to do one shot, one kill. Ideally a 'bang - drop'. My first deer was a gut shot, and my second deer I blew its front leg off. After that, I tried my hardest (and so far, successfully) to humanely put the deer down as quickly as I could.

Fact of the matter is, I love meat. If I can order a burger or a steak, I should have no problem shooting and eating an animal. In fact, I find great satisfaction in enjoying a deer steak or sausages for an animal I harvested. Far more healthy than anything I'd buy at a store.

I love meat, and I really love venison. I'm looking forward to my first elk or moose meat as well. I'm also looking forward to my first goose and duck kills as well.

I will never kill an animal just for a trophy. My personal feelings stop me at that point. But I do think it's pretty cool if I harvest an animal with big antlers etc. provided that I utilize it to the full.

Having grown up on a farm, I would shoot a coyote, and I've killed thousands of gophers over the years, but I just don't relish the idea of killing. So if I ran across a wolf out in the wild, I probably won't pull the trigger on it. But I certainly will not stop a hunting partner if they choose to do so. I know my thoughts are evolving over the years, so who knows how I'll feel eventually.

Long story short, I think an ethical hunter will always have some sort of a 'moral dillema'. The time when a hunter stops caring about the actions they take (or don't take) is the time when I don't think that person should be hunting anymore.

[thumper]

Having started hunting in my early 20s (I'm 56 now), I'm now in the exact same space as Albertadiver.
In addition, I like accepting the responsibility of killing and processing what I eat, and I enjoy the entire hunting experience - planning, preparation, scouting, hunting, processing game (or not!) and putting gear away, daydreaming about next year!
I also don't trophy hunt or hunt bears/wolves/cougars, but am happy to bring home big antlers when I can and am glad for others that like to hunt predators.

[Twobucks]

I think the fact you even ask the question shows your heart's in the right place. I feel just fine about hunting, but I always feel at least a little sad for whatever I've killed. But I grew up in a hunting house - fall was dad's religion.

If you want to want to do some reading - here's two authors I've enjoyed. THey both fill the freezer every year, but they've thought a lot about what it is they do.

Ted Kerasote - "Bloodties" - read anything of his, but I've read this one twice and I'll read it again. It contrasts four different hunting groups - including some militant animal rights activists. Oh, and an elk dies in the end.

Richard Nelson - "Heart and Blood" - the language is a little over the top sometimes, but study this and you can take on any "anti" argument. It is basically a history of deer and our relationship with the species. It starts with ice age hunters and goes right through today.

I believe you shouldn't take too much joy in killing, but there's also no shame.

[Rugerb]

I think that you should hold true to your values and ideals. If hunting is something you believe you would like to try and you don't want to be as critical as to "trophy" or not then that is just fine.
If you believe that hunting one animal over another (for whatever reason) is something that would just not suit you, that's fine too.
Hunting, for whatever the reason, is generally an individual sport. Yes you can share it with family and friends, but the moments you see are the moments that really only you remember.
For whatever reason you get outdoors, just plain enjoy them ......if you find that you love it as much as most of the honest fellows on this forum do, remember to save them for your kids as well as the rest of us....

[Tow Bow]

I'm with you 100% Husky. Actually, it sounds like our stories are basically the same, down to our age.

I'd rather hunt for my meat for many of the reasons previously mentioned but the trophies will be donated to others. I may have been 'anti' at some point of my life but I've never been blind to the reality of human consumption. I've watched a few slaughter house videos and to be frank, have no intention on buying store meat again if I can avoid it.

Now here is where I will likely differ from most and may even make some enemies. Thats fine by me. If you are too sensitive to other peoples perspectives, you should stop reading now. That is the advice given to 'antis', is it not?

I am 99% sure I will never hunt a predator. I have my reasons and they are pretty basic. I don't want to perpetuate an argument but I will give my rebuttals to the previously mentioned reasons to hunt predators.

1: They eat dogs and cats.

Have you ever watched your dog or cat outside in an uncontrolled setting? Isn't there a blurb about not harassing wildlife? Keep your dog where it should be and the chances are slim it will ever be attacked.

2: They eat game.

Yes... thats correct. It's called an 'ecosystem'. A trophy mounted on gyproc is not typically considered part of that cycle.

3: Furs. Well.... I'll admit... it would be pretty damn cool to have a wolf and/or bear coat and blankets BUT.... we derive enough materials from our current oil productions to comfortably fit me (and you) with synthetic clothes, which IMO are more effective anyways. I use a lot of bike clothes in non-bike circumstances and you'd be hard pressed to convince me otherwise. If I ever had to go to war with a mountain tribe, I might reconsider for psychological reasons.

If I felt that killing a grizzly made me more of man than I am from other aspects of my life, maybe it would be a turn on but where I come from, the dangerous predators are usually less than 200lbs and wouldn't mount very nicely. Maybe the idea of a real predator being alive is what appeals to my merciful side.

I also don't think I will be hunting birds. Actually... that comes from looking at some of the pictures on this site. A whole truck full in one day? Really? Doesn't seem sustainable when you consider the numbers.

I pretty much refuse to go through bear/wolf threads because I've done well in preparing to hunt so far and don't want to get turned off.

Coyotes are kinda so-so. Not a fan but they cause me no problems and so I don't (so far) have any real desire to hunt them. I don't see them as dogs or even dog-like. My dogs have always hated them but none the less, even coyote don't like coyote meat. Now, I am tempted to go help a farmer clear his acres in order to get a little more experience but in that regard I guess I see myself as offering a service that is needed.

I think that for every action that can be lawfully committed, the consideration must be made of 'what if everyone did it'.

What if every Albertan took bag limit on bears this year? Same question applies to EVERYTHING, including fossilized rocks in a stream bed.

I'm not attacking anyone else, just drawing my own lines and I hope i haven't burnt any bridges but if so, we likely wouldn't have gotten along very well anyways.

[Lefty-Canuck]

^^^^^

Ethics are a personal thing and most likely should remain as such....

LC

[Tow Bow]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

^^^^^

Ethics are a personal thing and most likely should remain as such....

LC

I couldn't disagree more but not interested in an argument either. Thanks for the advice but I believe exploring ethics is what develops sustainable practices, in all circumstances. My (rather lengthy) opinion of that statement would probably be taken so far out of context that I'd rather keep it to myself.

[winger7mm]

My latest incident with hunting and morals. I had taken a pic of our goose shoot today the harvest was hauled with my truck. After we were finished up I had placed all the geese on the tail gate in the typical stance on facebook. The first reply I got was "Thats FU#*ING DISGRACFUL" by an old friend, before all the congrats on a great hunt. Shes not a hunter and all that stuff. I asked her if the trees hug her back or if she ever gets sap in her hair lol, prob not the best answer but most definatly the best pg rated answer I could give lol. If you have an issue taking an animals life for food, well have fun eating bread and jam. IMO i would rather by far eat a happy and "cute" animal then one that lives a horrible life in a cage just big enough for its body and forced to eat food and injected with hormones, antibiotics, steriods and water. Think about it, store bought chickens are butchered at in between 3-6months of age, where as 10 years ago they had to live to an adult stage to get to those sizes. Cant wait till I fill my freezer with wild meat, good bye meat department!!!

[jacobin]

Originally Posted by winger7mm

My latest incident with hunting and morals. I had taken a pic of our goose shoot today the harvest was hauled with my truck. After we were finished up I had placed all the geese on the tail gate in the typical stance on facebook. The first reply I got was "Thats FU#*ING DISGRACFUL" by an old friend, before all the congrats on a great hunt. Shes not a hunter and all that stuff. I asked her if the trees hug her back or if she ever gets sap in her hair lol, prob not the best answer but most definatly the best pg rated answer I could give lol. If you have an issue taking an animals life for food, well have fun eating bread and jam. IMO i would rather by far eat a happy and "cute" animal then one that lives a horrible life in a cage just big enough for its body and forced to eat food and injected with hormones, antibiotics, steriods and water. Think about it, store bought chickens are butchered at in between 3-6months of age, where as 10 years ago they had to live to an adult stage to get to those sizes. Cant wait till I fill my freezer with wild meat, good bye meat department!!!

It is actually 42 days. That is the age a meat chicken lives before it is butchered. At least the commercially raised ones anyways. If you buy from a farm direct who is growing the heritage breeds then those birds are older as there genetics haven't been altered to make them such fast growers. Also, some birds are slaughtered a little earlier, however, most will never make it to 7 weeks. I have seen commercial birds grown to, I believe 8 weeks, and these birds looked like watermelons on toothpicks. It was insane to see how big these birds got.

My wife asked me once how old chickens live, she is a city girl. I told her 6 weeks if it was a meat bird and a year if it was a layer. She then rephrased the question to mean how old would they live if we didn't slaughter them. Still don't know the answer to this question.

[aulrich]

Originally Posted by Tow Bow

I also don't think I will be hunting birds. Actually... that comes from looking at some of the pictures on this site. A whole truck full in one day? Really? Doesn't seem sustainable when you consider the numbers.

Google snow goose populations you might recant that statement, and book a spring hunt as a moral obligation. And other waterfowl are not hurting

For myself there needs to be a reason, for the food, fur, pest (protecting food crop, livestock, property ) or protection.

But I personally don't understand the whole "do you feel bad after a kill" thing to me it is a statment of the ignorant, the life of one entity is only perpetuated by the death of another, you know the food chain thing.

So do I feel guilty that I am alive? No! and I know that every breath I take has been bought by the death of another being either directly as the pig that was made into ham or in-directly in land lost to grain production, to make the bread of my sandwich.

[270WinMag]

HuskyFan, You should also check out some videos on YouTube on how to field dress your Moose, Elk or Deer. Just to give you an idea of what you are in for after the kill.