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  #241  
Old 03-12-2017, 06:18 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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good plan !
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  #242  
Old 03-12-2017, 06:25 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Many of us have read the Jack O'connor articles that he published over the years.

Jack put alot of time and effort into the promotion of the Winchester 270, yet he had large caliber rifles for large game too.

The puzzle of the time back then was selection of bullets too get the expansion and harvest that Hunters wanted to see,,, a small selection of bullets is all they had too work with. The 30-06 cartrage was in the same boat with limited selections too chose from back in the day.

Thanks to Hornady, Speer and Winchester along with other manufactures more and more quality bullets showed up, this added quality too lighter cartrages capabilities too.

My Pops got first hand in field results with these new bullets from 1954 long after the war too 1977 when he hung up the rifles,,, my older brother carried on threw those years as I joined in by 1979/80.

My generation seen many more bullets advancements, and its been improving every year since.

I've shot many factory loads and re-loads like other folks, we experimented with pricey and frugal bullets of all kinds, funny thing is that some of us went back to old semi pointed blunt noise as others picked round or pointed too getter done.

When we hear that Wack sound and see the damage done on impact,,, we know we have things working.

Same loads with impacts on different critters, ranges and placement all give us signs of what's working and what's not. "hopefully" with out having too track too far in retrieving.

Today we like too add a fraction of over kill as it allows us deflections of terrain or a steady hand,,, sometimes both.

At times I wonder if I should of kept my 338 or 375 as they really put it out there at distance beyond the 300, 400 ++ mark.

Now days we keep it close as we've limited our distance like the old days. 70 too 140 yards,,, ok. 200+ if needed. Past that we just smile and wait for better options.

Don't get me wrong as each of us choose what works for us. Yes I really like shooting ranges and I still practice long shots mostly by hand "after I confirm target placement off a solid bench or by-poles.

My harvest days are limited, a 1 cartrage big and small game rifle is now a reality. Sure there is a 22 and 12gauge in the mix, but 1 furry critter unit will have to do the tasks that 5 units once did.

This question has been asked time and time on this forum and many others about the one rifle for all.

The idea that Jack O'connor mentioned way back then is still true today.

"What cartrage will suit all the game one chooses to harvest in the area where he/she lives, the size of game and terrain might be factors in this. Purhaps it is the person and their abilities that determine what cartrage best suits their own unique needs for those hunts / I'll use the word harvests." Ha.

Still nice to know that today's new bullets and cartrages are keeping pace with advancements that our folks seen in their days.

Only sharing on where old school 30 caliber might be in years too come or go.

Don
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  #243  
Old 03-12-2017, 10:52 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Looks like I missed some good posts while I was out today.

I hope this got some people thinking about the bullets they're using, maybe opened up some room for alternative options.

I did happen to run across this little gem while I was out though.




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  #244  
Old 03-13-2017, 11:57 AM
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Nice shed. Although we both know you're chasing bigger deer than that at your spots
I love the 7mm bullets but have a 30 cal. Go figure. And I actually went to a new load with my 300 wsm -> 110 vmax at about 3700 fps I can't wait to drop a yotie with that thing now...there may be considerable pelt damage lol
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  #245  
Old 03-13-2017, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by hogie View Post
All bullets drop, all bullets are affected by wind. Some more than others. One thing I've realized over the last little while is paper ballistics of what a cartridge can and can't do don't mean much. You can give me the best ballistic 6.5mm out there and I could still miss a deer.

If a person doesn't get out and practise, get to know how a rifle performs, figure out real world bullet drops by actually shooting at those distances. Shooting in different conditions, learning to estimate distance and wind. All of these I think will make more of a difference than calibers.

As far as recoil goes, that all depends on the rifle. I've shot some 300win mags that a good recoil pad and stock design make it reasonable. I really couldn't tell much difference between the 708 that I started hunting with to the 308 that I shoot now. My brother said it best, " when you have a critter in your sights you're not thinking about recoil"
Your brother is right! With critter on your mind you're not thinking recoil. What is often not mentioned is that a flinch is often a subconscious response and often does come when you are not thinking. It may come when that critter is in your sights.

The flinch itself is often developed on the bench or in practice.
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  #246  
Old 03-13-2017, 12:59 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post

The flinch itself is often developed on the bench or in practice.

Bingo.

That is something I pointed out a few pages back. Develop a flinch, then you have to make a conscious effort not to do it. Easy enough on the bench, not so much in the heat of the moment.
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  #247  
Old 08-18-2017, 03:10 PM
redsun redsun is offline
 
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whats wrong with a 44 magnum
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  #248  
Old 08-18-2017, 07:35 PM
JD848 JD848 is offline
 
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The 30 cal is not going any where,i am a 6.5 and 7mm rm and love a 300wsm and my new 300 win,where I hunt you can kill anything with a 243 or 25 06.

Some guys pick up bad habits with the 300 win and never go back to it so they prefer the 6,5 which is a great caliber,liking just one cartridge is like only liking a certain food.That is maybe why there staying away from the 300 win which is the one out the bunch that is lossing a bit of ground,but for myself I like many calibers and cartridges ,the energy ,the recoil ,plus better bullet choice , I just bought a new 300 win which comes with a 7mm spare barrel in the sauer 202,i truly just like the feel of the large cals and will till I can't see.

Killing something after 50 years is still a thrill ,but not the end of the world,i became a hunter cause I like the bush,the smell,the sounds,the peace and tranquility,whats over the next hill,trusting my bush skill and learning all the time,canoing for month's at a time alone,the smell and sound of the waters that is where my mind and heart truly finally gets to relax ,30 cal or whatever is in my hand is just fine.
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  #249  
Old 08-18-2017, 08:14 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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The way I see it is that some of the newer bullet offerings are allowing the smaller calibers to catch up with the larger calibers historic success. Add these new bullets to the larger calibers and the performance gap between them remains the same or even greater. Unless they invent a new caliber that has never been used before the .30's are still the overall king. That will never change no matter what bullet design is used.
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  #250  
Old 08-18-2017, 08:46 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
Isn't BC a determining factor in how much energy the bullet retains in flight? A 140gr ELDX bullet out a 260rem at 500yds will have more energy than a 168gr ELDX bullet out of a 308, will be traveling almost 200fps faster, and have much better penetration. Minimum performance speed for most hunting bullets is 1800fps, so by about 565yds, and about 1200ftpd energy the 168gr out of the 308 is done, where the 260rem will make it out to 750yds while having about 1000ftpds of energy. Even though the 260 will have less energy it will still penetrate deeper and have enough speed for the ELDX to perform properly. For reference, at 550yds the 260rem is still traveling at 2025fps and has 1275ftpd of energy, and at 750yds the 308 has about 900ftpd energy and is traveling at about 1550fps. As far as wind drift is concerned, the 6.5 is the clear winner.

Apples to apples the 6.5 stomps the 30cal with less recoil.


Dean, I've got 3 new rifles to develope loads for, I just don't know how bad I want to do it in -20!!!!
No disrespect, but your numbers are off.

260 Remington with 140gr A-Max Brian Litz at 700 yards is 1785 ft-per second @ 991 ft lbs energy.

308 winchester with your claimed 168gr ELD-X at 700 yards is 1691 ft-per second @ 1066 ft lbs energy

This is according to Hornady volume 10 and JBM ballistics calculater.
It's nice when we can share the true facts.

Funny that picking the Superior bullet for the 260 Remington that the 308 winchester still has a small fraction of ft-lbs energy over the 260 Remington.

Don
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  #251  
Old 08-18-2017, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
With the advancement in bullets these days, particularly in the 6.5 and 7mm catergory, extremely high BC's and controlled expansion, more and more I think the 30cal is becoming obsolete in terms of hunting.

Am I wrong in thinking less is becoming more in terms of modern cartridges?
This is from Hornady reloading book:

Before discussing this topic in more detail, let's dispel some myths surrounding it. Whatever you may have heard before, these are the facts:

There is no such thing as an absolute and invariable ballistic coefficient (B. C.)
Ballistic coefficients are only one factor in bullet selection for different kinds of shooting.
A ballistic coefficient can change with reference to (1) altitude, (2) temperature, (3) atmospheric pressure, and (4) relative humidity.
Ballistic coefficients are measures of a bullet's relative efficiency.
Ballistic coefficients are not measures of a bullet's "goodness."
Higher B.C.s do not necessarily make a bullet "better."
Lower B.C.s do not necessarily make a bullet "worse.
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  #252  
Old 08-18-2017, 11:05 PM
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What I know of bullets is that II have killed animals with everything from pure lead round balls too hard cast lead bullets to cup and core cheap bullets to stuff like Barnes XLC's in calibers ranging from .224 to .570 with both black and smokeless, and muzzle loading to modern cartridges and everything in between.
All the animals over the years died quickly if I hit them where I was aiming, no matter what I was shooting.
I also had some tracking to do if they were not hit where was aiming no matter what I was shooting.

The caliber of a rifle is the last thing I look at when deciding if I want to hunt with a particular rifle.
Cat
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  #253  
Old 08-18-2017, 11:19 PM
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whats wrong with a 44 magnum
Wow. Your #1 first post. Congrats.
You might have better luck with your post in the .44 magnum thread. This is the .30cal bullet thread.
Welcome to AO
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  #254  
Old 08-18-2017, 11:20 PM
JD848 JD848 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
What I know of bullets is that II have killed animals with everything from pure lead round balls too hard cast lead bullets to cup and core cheap bullets to stuff like Barnes XLC's in calibers ranging from .224 to .570 with both black and smokeless, and muzzle loading to modern cartridges and everything in between.
All the animals over the years died quickly if I hit them where I was aiming, no matter what I was shooting.
I also had some tracking to do if they were not hit where was aiming no matter what I was shooting.

The caliber of a rifle is the last thing I look at when deciding if I want to hunt with a particular rifle.
Cat
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  #255  
Old 08-18-2017, 11:31 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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If both rifles are the same make, weight, barrel length, as identical over all weight.

Based on fully equipped rifles based at 10 lbs,,, this is ammo, optics, By-pod, sling, extra slip on cartrage stock holder.

One chambered in 260 Remington shooting 140gr bullets @ 2755 ft-per second, the other in 308 winchester shooting 165gr @ 2828 ft-per second... This is based on max load from Hornady book #10

The recoil difference is 0.78 of a pound between both rifles so long as they are the same identical weight and barrel length. The only difference is the caliber.

Hardly worth considering this as issue.

This is from the shooters recoil calculater.

Looks like this blows the 30% more recoil theory out of the water. Kinda nice knowing the real facts.

Some times folks use words like squash, out perform by miles, and far more superior show up in conversations.

The majority of us know that better words that might describe the difference between too closely matched rifles might be minimal, or a fraction better than.

Yes the 260 Remington has a fraction less recoil then the 308,,, but less than 1 lb would make next too nill of difference to us grown up folks that shoot match.

If firearms recoil is an issue we have options.
Heavier firearm, add a MB. Incorporate the stock hydro shock system and super hard gel pad.

Yuppers, lots of us don't see the 30 cal bullets disappearing any time soon as they are selling like hot cakes again this year threw out all of North America for 2017 year.

Don
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  #256  
Old 08-20-2017, 05:56 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Here is an interesting read on the Remington 260.

Terminal Ballistics Research Technology that might be considered a 50/50 of facts.

Each of pick and choose what game we are after, terrain and distance also play roles in our harvests.

Not only do many of us know about hard hitting deep penetration when it comes too clean Harvesting large thick skin critters,,, it seems that this is well known in the culling fields of trying too harvest Dangerous Game as well.

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Know...utmk=228661020

I know what cartrage, bullet selection, terrain and distance I harvest in, this "might" be why I choose to package I have since it best suits my criteria aloting a small fraction of "Lee-Way" if shot placement is off track due to out side elements out-side of my controls once the bullet has left the barrel.

I like many game Harvesters always hope that we pick-up on these signs before we engage on the tack down.

Don
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  #257  
Old 08-20-2017, 08:36 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
If both rifles are the same make, weight, barrel length, as identical over all weight.

Based on fully equipped rifles based at 10 lbs,,, this is ammo, optics, By-pod, sling, extra slip on cartrage stock holder.

One chambered in 260 Remington shooting 140gr bullets @ 2755 ft-per second, the other in 308 winchester shooting 165gr @ 2828 ft-per second... This is based on max load from Hornady book #10

The recoil difference is 0.78 of a pound between both rifles so long as they are the same identical weight and barrel length. The only difference is the caliber.

Hardly worth considering this as issue.

This is from the shooters recoil calculater.

Looks like this blows the 30% more recoil theory out of the water. Kinda nice knowing the real facts.

Some times folks use words like squash, out perform by miles, and far more superior show up in conversations.

The majority of us know that better words that might describe the difference between too closely matched rifles might be minimal, or a fraction better than.

Yes the 260 Remington has a fraction less recoil then the 308,,, but less than 1 lb would make next too nill of difference to us grown up folks that shoot match.

If firearms recoil is an issue we have options.
Heavier firearm, add a MB. Incorporate the stock hydro shock system and super hard gel pad.

Yuppers, lots of us don't see the 30 cal bullets disappearing any time soon as they are selling like hot cakes again this year threw out all of North America for 2017 year.

Don
0.78lb difference in recoil?

Show your facts for me Don.

It's strange that facts favouring 30cal are facts, but facts favouring 6.5 are 50/50?

Do you have any "real life proof" or just the cherry picked theoretical proof?

Here's a little read on them.

https://www.huntinggearguy.com/gener...08-winchester/

Last edited by Kurt505; 08-20-2017 at 09:05 AM.
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  #258  
Old 08-20-2017, 10:39 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Don, from hornady's website

168gr 308 Amax @ 500yds

Velocity 1839fps

Energy 1261 ftlbs

Drop. -48.9in

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...68-gr-a-max#!/


143gr 6.5 Creedmoor eldx @ 500yds

Velocity 2030fps

Energy 1308 ftlbs

Drop -44.4

So after 500yd the Creedmoor is going 191fps faster, has 47 ftlbs more energy and has 4-1/2" less drop, all with less recoil.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...sion-hunter#!/

Even the 178gr 308 bullets @ 500yds only have a slight advantage in energy at 1346 ftlbs, but are still traveling slower at 1846fps with 6-1/2" more drop.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...sion-hunter#!/

Facts are facts.
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  #259  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:11 AM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Don, from hornady's website

168gr 308 Amax @ 500yds

Velocity 1839fps

Energy 1261 ftlbs

Drop. -48.9in

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...68-gr-a-max#!/


143gr 6.5 Creedmoor eldx @ 500yds

Velocity 2030fps

Energy 1308 ftlbs

Drop -44.4

So after 500yd the Creedmoor is going 191fps faster, has 47 ftlbs more energy and has 4-1/2" less drop, all with less recoil.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...sion-hunter#!/

Even the 178gr 308 bullets @ 500yds only have a slight advantage in energy at 1346 ftlbs, but are still traveling slower at 1846fps with 6-1/2" more drop.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...sion-hunter#!/

Facts are facts.
Now, if we could only get the 6.5 CM to handle a 168 gr bullet at similar velocities, we have a reasonable comparison .. it would win hands down.
Maybe a better comparison would be the CM vs 6.5x55 with the same bullet.
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Old 08-20-2017, 11:15 AM
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Now, if we could only get the 6.5 CM to handle a 168 gr bullet at similar velocities, we have a reasonable comparison .. it would win hands down.
Maybe a better comparison would be the CM vs 6.5x55 with the same bullet.
The whole point is that the 6.5 Creedmoor at 143gr is outperforming the 168gr 308 bullet in speed, energy, and drop, all with less recoil.
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  #261  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:50 AM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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The whole point is that the 6.5 Creedmoor at 143gr is outperforming the 168gr 308 bullet in speed, energy, and drop, all with less recoil.
I get your point but that is a futile attempt to make the CM into something it is not. As good a cartridge as it may be, you have placed a lightweight target cartridge in a middleweight hunting class and terminal effects will show that rather quickly.
It stands to reason that if you want to deliver a heavier payload you can expect some additional recoil and if recoil is a concern, as it appears to be, sticking to the lightweights makes sense .. but your quarry has to be chosen accordingly. As to trajectories, they can easily be compensated for.
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:59 PM
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I get your point but that is a futile attempt to make the CM into something it is not. As good a cartridge as it may be, you have placed a lightweight target cartridge in a middleweight hunting class and terminal effects will show that rather quickly.
It stands to reason that if you want to deliver a heavier payload you can expect some additional recoil and if recoil is a concern, as it appears to be, sticking to the lightweights makes sense .. but your quarry has to be chosen accordingly. As to trajectories, they can easily be compensated for.
Are you suggesting a 6.5 Creedmoor is not a capable hunting cartridge? Lol!

I used the Creedmoor vs the 308 as an example, but this thread is about how the 30cal stands up against 6.5 and .284 calibers nowadays. There isn't an animal on the North American continent that requires a 30cal minimum to kill. The benefits of today's bullet construction is that we can get the job proficiently done using smaller caliber bullets, in a cartridge with less recoil. The performance of a 143gr 6.5 projectile or a 175gr .284 projectile in today's bullets is very impressive. I was lucky enough to get my bull moose draw this year, and if I don't get to harvest one with my bow, I'm going to shoot it with my 6.5 Creedmoor (if it's finished being built by then) and prove my theory.

PS, I have no problem handling the recoil of my 300wsm in a Sako finnlight, however I much prefer to shoot my 280's, and I bet the Creedmoor will be even more fun to shoot.

Last edited by Kurt505; 08-20-2017 at 01:05 PM.
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  #263  
Old 08-20-2017, 01:54 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Are you suggesting a 6.5 Creedmoor is not a capable hunting cartridge? Lol!

I used the Creedmoor vs the 308 as an example, but this thread is about how the 30cal stands up against 6.5 and .284 calibers nowadays. There isn't an animal on the North American continent that requires a 30cal minimum to kill. The benefits of today's bullet construction is that we can get the job proficiently done using smaller caliber bullets, in a cartridge with less recoil. The performance of a 143gr 6.5 projectile or a 175gr .284 projectile in today's bullets is very impressive. I was lucky enough to get my bull moose draw this year, and if I don't get to harvest one with my bow, I'm going to shoot it with my 6.5 Creedmoor (if it's finished being built by then) and prove my theory.

PS, I have no problem handling the recoil of my 300wsm in a Sako finnlight, however I much prefer to shoot my 280's, and I bet the Creedmoor will be even more fun to shoot.
No, I am not suggesting that at all. What I am suggesting is that there are far better choices than the CM as a hunting round, even in .264 cal. Delivering minimum payloads in any caliber is not a great choice regardless of bullet choice IMO. There are a variety of new bullet choices available in all calibers these days so nothing has really changed in favor of the lightweights. If there is a viable alternative to bullet displacement .. all else being equal, I have yet to see it. Recoil notwithstanding.
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  #264  
Old 08-20-2017, 02:16 PM
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I get your point but that is a futile attempt to make the CM into something it is not. As good a cartridge as it may be, you have placed a lightweight target cartridge in a middleweight hunting class and terminal effects will show that rather quickly.

Well right here you say the 6.5 Creedmoor is a lightweight target cartridge that will be futile as a middleweight hunting cartridge, so.....

It's obvious you don't understand what's going on here. I imagine you feel the 308 with a 168gr bullet is a perfectly capable middleweight hunting cartridge right? Even though I just posted the actual ballistic performance of both the 308 in a 168gr bullet and the 6.5 Creedmoor in a 143gr bullet, where it shows the 6.5 Creedmoor having more energy at the 500yd mark, you still feel it's not adequate as a middleweight hunting cartridge.

You don't seem to grasp the technology behind today's modern bullet design, the benefits of long slender bullets with their ability to retain more energy during flight and open up wider wound channels because of their longer pedals when they open up on impact.

I'm not saying a 6.5 Creedmoor will out preform a 300 magnum, I'm saying with today's bullets you don't need a 300 magnum to kill any North American animal because a 6.5 Creedmoor will quite handily do the job.
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Old 08-20-2017, 04:11 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Well right here you say the 6.5 Creedmoor is a lightweight target cartridge that will be futile as a middleweight hunting cartridge, so.....

It's obvious you don't understand what's going on here. I imagine you feel the 308 with a 168gr bullet is a perfectly capable middleweight hunting cartridge right? Even though I just posted the actual ballistic performance of both the 308 in a 168gr bullet and the 6.5 Creedmoor in a 143gr bullet, where it shows the 6.5 Creedmoor having more energy at the 500yd mark, you still feel it's not adequate as a middleweight hunting cartridge.

You don't seem to grasp the technology behind today's modern bullet design, the benefits of long slender bullets with their ability to retain more energy during flight and open up wider wound channels because of their longer pedals when they open up on impact.

I'm not saying a 6.5 Creedmoor will out preform a 300 magnum, I'm saying with today's bullets you don't need a 300 magnum to kill any North American animal because a 6.5 Creedmoor will quite handily do the job.
Kurt .. I think I have a pretty good handle on cartridrge design, SD's, bullet technology, bullet momentum, penetration,terminal performance etc. I don't consider myself an expert by any means but I have been around the block a few times with a fair number of cartridges handloaded over 60 yrs under my belt and quite a number of animals on the ground over the same period... so I do have opinions.
Never did I say the Creedmore could not do the job. I said there were better choices in .264 cal. Never did I suggest you need a .300 Mag to do the job either. Quite frankly, I don't use a magnum cartridge in any flavor on anything. That's a choice I made considering my own personal use.
As to the Creedmore having more retained energy at 500 yds than a .308 Win. 168 gr, I think that part requires a bit more research at your end regarding the most suitable cartridge of the two as a choice for BG at that distance. Personally,I don't think either one is a good choice. Just MHO.
I honestly wish you Good Luck Bowhunting your Moose this year but I really look forward to you nailing it at 500 yds with you new CM.
I got my Antlered Moose draw as well. Mr. Whelen will be coming with me.
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  #266  
Old 08-21-2017, 08:07 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Don, from hornady's website

168gr 308 Amax @ 500yds

Velocity 1839fps

Energy 1261 ftlbs

Drop. -48.9in

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...68-gr-a-max#!/


143gr 6.5 Creedmoor eldx @ 500yds

Velocity 2030fps

Energy 1308 ftlbs

Drop -44.4

So after 500yd the Creedmoor is going 191fps faster, has 47 ftlbs more energy and has 4-1/2" less drop, all with less recoil.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...sion-hunter#!/

Even the 178gr 308 bullets @ 500yds only have a slight advantage in energy at 1346 ftlbs, but are still traveling slower at 1846fps with 6-1/2" more drop.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...sion-hunter#!/

Facts are facts.
The recoil link is on my post as above.
Strange that the thread changed from 260 Remington too Creedmoor.

All small differences over all. Terminal Ballistics is a limiting factor with small cases, this is a trade up or down since each person finds what works for game, terrain, and benefits over all. That's what really counts.

Don
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  #267  
Old 08-21-2017, 08:49 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
The recoil link is on my post as above.
Strange that the thread changed from 260 Remington too Creedmoor.

All small differences over all. Terminal Ballistics is a limiting factor with small cases, this is a trade up or down since each person finds what works for game, terrain, and benefits over all. That's what really counts.

Don
The thread never changed, it's about 30cal bullets and how they are out-preformed in energy retention by 6.5mm and 7mm projectiles using the same charge, combined with today's bullet construction of long, slender, high BC bullets that use the pedals for making large wound channels rather than bore size.

The 260rem and the 6.5 Creedmoor both have less recoil than the 308 with nearly the same case, so it doesn't really matter which one you use to compare.

Hopefully (if it arrives by November) I am going to shoot either a moose or an elk, or both this fall with my 6.5 Creedmoor to prove that it is every bit as deadly as a 308 or 300 magnum on the biggest of our North American big game animals. My farthest moose kill was with a 140gr bullet launched out of my 280rem at 509yds, and I imagine the 6.5 Creedmoor will be packing close to the same punch at that distance.
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  #268  
Old 08-21-2017, 09:02 AM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Yes, that's what really counts.

I'm hopefully only scouting this year for Elk as we have too many hooved critters at home too eat.

I'll be packing my weak Odd 6 incase my friend needs a backup plan.

It's a small case in todays standards, but does ok with in the 140 yard range.

Don
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  #269  
Old 08-21-2017, 07:36 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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My comment of 50/50 was about better performance of the 260 Remington that the author did not give it credit for.

The wild bore culling thing is a small fraction of a cartrage,,, bullet selection, terrain and distance that play factors in this

I'm sure a old school 308 would see its challanges too.

Purhaps this is why there are 200+ well known cartrages and 6000+ wildcats on the planet.
There are so many trade up's & downs with each cartrage one might choose,,, I'm thinking that each firearm combination with choosen cartrage would make a difference too.

Example might be a 6 3/4 lb rifle chambered in 338 Lapua or a 6mm sheep rifle weighting 13 lbs, or built on a F Class set-up that would be challenging to pack up a mountain. Probably not the best selection.

338 Lapua would be kinda over kill on a antelope hunt, the 6mm short case not the best pick going after Bison,,, this is not suggesting that the harvest can't be done since Bella Twin took a record book Grizzly with a 22 Rimfire in 1953.
There is always compromise in "Everything."

At times I miss my 300 Weatherby Mag, 338 Winchester and a little bit of that 375 H&H. "Kinda of that is.

Stepping down to a little 30/06 "might" be considered a game changer after owning those big rock chuckers.
At times I will be thinking I'm "out-gunned."

Out-gunned too me is seeing a large furry critter that makes me think, ""do I have enough rifle too stop critters in their tracks."""

2 puzzles I've encountered bring this too reality.
A 6mm/243 Deer harvest, & working the F Class back-stop this year... "The Butt" they call it.

As we awaited the first shoots of the day at 400m's I thought those 155, 180's, 200gr bullets would rock the earth,,, they were little poofs into the clay.
At 900m's the poofs became soft.

My 30/06 loaded hot and heavy at 800m's would hardly take down a thin skin small Deer
After the red flag went up I walked to the base of the clay bank too look at the lead bullets laying on top of the soil.

Yes, this is not representation of skin and bone, but in my mind it made me realize that those magnum rifles I owned back then had more punch then what I have now.

Any-who, we all see the long range harvests on YouTube that prove my ideology wrong, maybe I should return too the 6mm/243 days.
Can I successfully harvest thick skin critters at 1 km, "maybe."
Can I do this every time, "Purhaps."

I ask my self this first,,, I'm I out gunned or not.
What critter might allow me a harvest.
Where will this harvest take place.

And what lee-way am I allowing as the main shooter or back-up.
I've always kept a small back up plan after that unsuccessful Deer harvest that when south long long ago.

There is no reason for me too not allow a fraction of over harvest.
Limit my range, load mid hot with heavy,,, and stop think before pulling the pin.

Age has trained me well, each of us learn or know this.
I'm of age that tells me I enjoy the hunt, but not the killing,,, Hunter gather is a small part in "some" of us, not all.

We pick and choose what works, hopefully it pans out and that success is there. Learning slowly has been part of who I am.

At times I get stuck with out change, but it's partly due to factors in which things did not play out in favour of what I expected happen.

It's challenging at times too brake from this mold.

Don
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  #270  
Old 08-21-2017, 08:15 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
My comment of 50/50 was about better performance of the 260 Remington that the author did not give it credit for.

The wild bore culling thing is a small fraction of a cartrage,,, bullet selection, terrain and distance that play factors in this

I'm sure a old school 308 would see its challanges too.

Purhaps this is why there are 200+ well known cartrages and 6000+ wildcats on the planet.
There are so many trade up's & downs with each cartrage one might choose,,, I'm thinking that each firearm combination with choosen cartrage would make a difference too.

Example might be a 6 3/4 lb rifle chambered in 338 Lapua or a 6mm sheep rifle weighting 13 lbs, or built on a F Class set-up that would be challenging to pack up a mountain. Probably not the best selection.

338 Lapua would be kinda over kill on a antelope hunt, the 6mm short case not the best pick going after Bison,,, this is not suggesting that the harvest can't be done since Bella Twin took a record book Grizzly with a 22 Rimfire in 1953.
There is always compromise in "Everything."

At times I miss my 300 Weatherby Mag, 338 Winchester and a little bit of that 375 H&H. "Kinda of that is.

Stepping down to a little 30/06 "might" be considered a game changer after owning those big rock chuckers.
At times I will be thinking I'm "out-gunned."

Out-gunned too me is seeing a large furry critter that makes me think, ""do I have enough rifle too stop critters in their tracks."""

2 puzzles I've encountered bring this too reality.
A 6mm/243 Deer harvest, & working the F Class back-stop this year... "The Butt" they call it.

As we awaited the first shoots of the day at 400m's I thought those 155, 180's, 200gr bullets would rock the earth,,, they were little poofs into the clay.
At 900m's the poofs became soft.

My 30/06 loaded hot and heavy at 800m's would hardly take down a thin skin small Deer
After the red flag went up I walked to the base of the clay bank too look at the lead bullets laying on top of the soil.

Yes, this is not representation of skin and bone, but in my mind it made me realize that those magnum rifles I owned back then had more punch then what I have now.

Any-who, we all see the long range harvests on YouTube that prove my ideology wrong, maybe I should return too the 6mm/243 days.
Can I successfully harvest thick skin critters at 1 km, "maybe."
Can I do this every time, "Purhaps."

I ask my self this first,,, I'm I out gunned or not.
What critter might allow me a harvest.
Where will this harvest take place.

And what lee-way am I allowing as the main shooter or back-up.
I've always kept a small back up plan after that unsuccessful Deer harvest that when south long long ago.

There is no reason for me too not allow a fraction of over harvest.
Limit my range, load mid hot with heavy,,, and stop think before pulling the pin.

Age has trained me well, each of us learn or know this.
I'm of age that tells me I enjoy the hunt, but not the killing,,, Hunter gather is a small part in "some" of us, not all.

We pick and choose what works, hopefully it pans out and that success is there. Learning slowly has been part of who I am.

At times I get stuck with out change, but it's partly due to factors in which things did not play out in favour of what I expected happen.

It's challenging at times too brake from this mold.

Don
Nice write up Don. I'm not sure where you're going with it but here is where I'm going with my point.

There isn't an animal you can kill with a 308 that you can't kill with a 7-08, and there isn't an animal you can kill with a 30-06 that you can't kill with a 280, and there isn't an animal you can kill with a 300 magnum that you can't kill with a 7mm magnum, and so on. In each case the 7mm will require a lighter bullet and have less recoil, and in each case you can substitute a 6.5mm and get the same results with even less recoil.

I see the the 308 based cases as a 0-500yd hunting rifle, capable of killing any North American big game animal, the 30-06 based cases up to around 750yds and the magnums further out than I'd ever try. With this guideline I see a 6.5 Creedmoor in a 4.5lb rifle with a 1:9 twist as being my new favorite hunting rifle/cartridge combo.
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