Oilers Fans Matter

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

Mind you, would any potential GM actually want this job?

I expect there are about 31 AGM and 31 GMs in the AHL that would give it a shot. They'd likely want to sit down and state they need, at minimum, a 3 year window, this isn't going to be fixed by the end of the CBA mandated break. Very doable if they hire the right guy.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Are Craig MacTavish and Kevin Lowe still employed? Should Peter not be helping them pack?

They are the two constants in the past 15 years of misery. I just heard (and haven't verified it) that Kevin's son is a bench warmer on the Oiler's farm team in Bakersfield yet wears the C. Keith Gretzky is the acting GM now. There is talk of giving Wayne Gretzky a more influential position within the team. Look at his track record in Phoenix and ask anyone who was in the dressing how good of coach/manager he was. Just because these guys were great players, it doesn't make them great managers. Nepotism is a huge part of the Oiler's demise.

If the Oilers are going to suck, at least be tough. Letting McDavid get mauled in a 6-2 loss is beyond belief. Beyond the Oilers top 5 forwards and top 2 d-men, all of their players should be playing like it's their last game in the NHL because they wouldn't crack most NHL line ups.

All of the high picks and bumping against the salary cap, but still can't make the playoffs. I can't stand to listen to their games on the radio, never mind watch one. I'd go crazy if I dropped a $1000 to take my family to a game and watched them apathetically float around.

I hate to say it, but I've thought about joining the dark side and becoming a Flames fan. It's coming to that or quit watching NHL altogether.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by HoytCRX32

Just a thought so don't crap on me here...but why is it ALL important to keep McDavid??? You want to speed up the rebuild, trade him and Draisitl (try to make it a condition that Lucic goes with one or the other)...I get that he is the best player on the planet, but he can't do it on his own...

Again, just putting it out there

What team can afford to give up what McDavid is worth?

[HoytCRX32]

"Letting McGregor get mauled..."

Must be McDavid's winger

[sgill808]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Even though I think it will never happen, I will play along in this fantasy.

1. So you are the new GM and you are willing to trade McDavid.

What would you ask for in return (actual player names)


2. So you are the new GM and you are willing to trade Draisaitl.

What would you ask for in return (actual player names)


3. What other moves would you make?

I would bring back Chiarelli as Assistant GM. Roll a doobey and laugh my ass off.

[HoytCRX32]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

What team can afford to give up what McDavid is worth?

One with lots a prospects, draft picks and a couple of top line players (forward and defence) AND is willing to take Lucic as well

Not exactly sure which team has all of these.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by HoytCRX32

"Letting McGregor get mauled..."

Must be McDavid's winger

I had a brain cramp - lots on my mind today.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

What team can afford to give up what McDavid is worth?

Just a guess but if McDavid demands a trade 1/2 the league would put packages together

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

What team can afford to give up what McDavid is worth?

Toronto. Tavarse and Marner

Tampa. Kucherov and Pointe

Colorado. MacKinnon and Barrie


When you are talking a McDavid trade it is similar to Subban/Weber only on a much larger scale.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by HoytCRX32

One with lots a prospects, draft picks and a couple of top line players (forward and defence) AND is willing to take Lucic as well

Not exactly sure which team has all of these.

I get what you're saying, but it would be counter productive to give up all you have for one player. Pre-cap era...sure. Not now though. My opinion anyways.

[fishtank]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

What team can afford to give up what McDavid is worth?

you never know until you put it out there ...

Originally Posted by Sooner

Katz, supposed to be a great businessmen man, horrible owner as far as watching his team crash and burn and do nothing. Never hear a word from him about his team.

its not so bad from a business , they are selling out game and ticket sale wise they are one of the $$$ .

[brendan's dad]

But it is never going to happen....

[270person]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I think his hands are practically tied for the next two years. For 19/20 they have a $6.5M projected cap space but by 20/21 Pouliots and Gryba's buyouts are both off the books and so are Talbot, Manning, Petrovic, Brodziak, Kassian, and Spooner and the projected cap space is $22M. And the year following the projected cap space is $44M. The new guy will need at least 2 to 3 years with next year being a complete right off IMO. I'd essentially trade away anything and everything that doesn't fit in with being competitive in 3 years and, as futile as it likely will be, try to get Panarin and Karlsson, a winger and a Dman that are good and fit the age bracket.

Talbot's a UFA after this season. Grybas off the books after next season not that $333k helps much. Reider and Ratte were on one years I believe so they're buh bye.


The elephant in the room is Lucic. His + Spooners + Manning's contracts = a decent player or two. Chiarelli should have been gone the second he pulled the Reinhart deal, fired into the sun seconds after the Hall trade, had boosters attached to the rocket for the Eberle trade, blown up on the launch pad for the Spooner trade, ensuing fire whizzed on by 100 donkeys after the Manning deal.

Also ok if a troop of baboons crap on the ashes for the Koskinen signing but I don't think that one is all on him.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by NCC

I hate to say it, but I've thought about joining the dark side and becoming a Flames fan. It's coming to that or quit watching NHL altogether.

I am a flames fan so I may be a bit biased, however, as a fan of Hockey the flames have been incredibly fun to watch this year. High scoring, you can never count them out they have had 3 or 4 5 goal 3rd periods, Power play is good, penalty kill is good (most SHG in the league). Tkachuck getting under peoples skin. The last few years if I had nothing going on I would watch the game, now I make an effort to at least watch a portion of every game. If I can't I am checking the score every few minutes.

So your welcome to join our side anytime...

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

General consensus I believe is that whoever gets the best player in the trade, wins the trade. (Whether it's the NHL or fantasy football) That's why it is so rare to see true #1 D men or top caliber forwards get traded, especially in their prime. By that reasoning, it is impossible to win a trade when you're giving up McDavid.

There is only one Connor McDavid, he's a generational talent. There's all kinds of first and second liners out there, and more coming into the league every year. I'd argue that the sum of those players is not greater than the value of McDavid himself.

I'd argue that 2,3 or 4 quality players in return would win the trade. McDavid can't play on two or three lines all the time. 4 quality players give the Oilers more depth than they have right now.

Just step back and look at what one "generational" player and zip supporting cast has done for them so far. What will change going forward?

A lot of eggs in one basket now. Worst case scenario, what if McDavid gets a season ending injury early next year or the year after? How many more seasons can the Oil afford to write off with zip for a supporting cast?

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Even though I think it will never happen, I will play along in this fantasy.

1. So you are the new GM and you are willing to trade McDavid.

What would you ask for in return (actual player names)

Obviously just spit balling, but Tarasenko, Parayko, and St. Louis' first (which should be pretty high as they are in 25th).

A potential lineup would look like this:

Khaira - Draisaitl - Tarasenko

Lucic - Hopkins - Puljujarvi

Spooner - Cave - Yamamato

It obviously drops off quickly after the second line, but the D does't look half bad.

Parayko - Klefbom
Nurse - Larsson
Russell - Benning

Koskinen

And hopefully Bouchard and at least one of the two top 10 picks (Hughes, Dach, Cozens....) would be in the lineup next year.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Obviously just spit balling, but Tarasenko, Parayko, and St. Louis' first (which should be pretty high as they are in 25th).

A potential lineup would look like this:

Khaira - Draisaitl - Tarasenko

Lucic - Hopkins - Puljujarvi

Spooner - Cave - Yamamato

It obviously drops off quickly after the second line, but the D does't look half bad.

Parayko - Klefbom
Nurse - Larsson
Russell - Benning

Koskinen

And hopefully Bouchard and at least one of the two top 10 picks (Hughes, Dach, Cozens....) would be in the lineup next year.

The only problem with that line up is that you still have Draisatl in it. He hasn't proven that he's worth half his salary without a "generational" player on his line to prop him up.

I'd also be a little concerned with the goaltender. It's a little premature to say he's the man. You don't have to rewind too much to when they thought Talbot was the second coming of Grant Fuhr.

That's really the curse of their past dynasty, anyone that comes along who looks like he has talent, can right the ship and bring back the 80's memories gets overpaid too soon before they show they're the real deal.

Unless Draisatl improves and shows he can elevate the play of players around him he isn't likely to make anyone forget Mark Messier anytime soon.

[Jamie]

I will just leave this here... Remember, help is available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9DFa-e_Kcg

[Jamie]

..

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Obviously just spit balling, but Tarasenko, Parayko, and St. Louis' first (which should be pretty high as they are in 25th).

A potential lineup would look like this:

Khaira - Draisaitl - Tarasenko

Lucic - Hopkins - Puljujarvi

Spooner - Cave - Yamamato

It obviously drops off quickly after the second line, but the D does't look half bad.

Parayko - Klefbom
Nurse - Larsson
Russell - Benning

Koskinen

And hopefully Bouchard and at least one of the two top 10 picks (Hughes, Dach, Cozens....) would be in the lineup next year.

Unfortunately without other moves you can't currently make this trade even if St Louis wanted to. The Oilers don't have the cap space for both players. Currently 50,000 to use. Connor is 12.5 Parayko and Tarasneko would be 13,000,00. I guess it could be possible in the off season, but If your giving up Connor you should also get a couple prospects in the mix.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by YYC338

I'd argue that 2,3 or 4 quality players in return would win the trade. McDavid can't play on two or three lines all the time. 4 quality players give the Oilers more depth than they have right now.

Just step back and look at what one "generational" player and zip supporting cast has done for them so far. What will change going forward?

A lot of eggs in one basket now. Worst case scenario, what if McDavid gets a season ending injury early next year or the year after? How many more seasons can the Oil afford to write off with zip for a supporting cast?

Maybe down the road a bit, depending on the unknowable future it works out that way. The only deals I can think of that went that way would be the Herschel Walker and Ricky Williams trades, and in both cases, it was because the star player dropped of a cliff or got hurt.

The Oilers didn't win by "trading" Gretzky, they didn't win by trading Messier or Coffee either. The players in return or the draft picks never replaced their value, at least not in my opinion. I don't think Ottawa won in the Karlson trade, BOS didn't win in the Seguin trade, VAN didn't win in the Luongo trade, Subban was the better player in that trade, and it's pretty clear to me that NAS won that trade hands down, add names like Gilmour, Chara, etc... The record of trades where a bonafide superstar is moved isn't a good one for the team that traded them away.

I'd reverse your point and it would have the same effect. Look at what one single player has done for the franchise, almost single handedly. He's dragged them to where they are today pretty much by himself, it's clear to everyone the sad (sadder) state the Oilers would be in without him on the team. If that doesn't prove his worth, I don't know what will.

You are so much closer to getting to the top when you have that generational player - Crosby, Kane, Doughty, Ovechkin, even a Brodeur. Having that anchor point makes putting the rest of the pieces together a heck of a lot easier than building from the middle of the road, unless you're Detroit lol, and you draft two likely hall of famers in the 6th and 7th rounds in back to back years.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Obviously just spit balling, but Tarasenko, Parayko, and St. Louis' first (which should be pretty high as they are in 25th).

A potential lineup would look like this:

Khaira - Draisaitl - Tarasenko

Lucic - Hopkins - Puljujarvi

Spooner - Cave - Yamamato

It obviously drops off quickly after the second line, but the D does't look half bad.

Parayko - Klefbom
Nurse - Larsson
Russell - Benning

Koskinen

And hopefully Bouchard and at least one of the two top 10 picks (Hughes, Dach, Cozens....) would be in the lineup next year.

You'd have a really hard time convincing me that lineup is any better than what they sent out vs Detroit, even if it was possible under the cap. I think it might actually be worse. Parayko is an obvious upgrade to the D corp, but does that make up for the downgrade from McDavid to Tarasenko and making Draisaitl a full time center first line center? I have my doubts...

The problem is the guys in red, not the two guys that replaced 97.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I thought eveyone was being pretty civil....

This thread is proof that you can, in fact, troll civilly.

[270person]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Even though I think it will never happen, I will play along in this fantasy.

1. So you are the new GM and you are willing to trade McDavid.

What would you ask for in return (actual player names)


2. So you are the new GM and you are willing to trade Draisaitl.

What would you ask for in return (actual player names)


3. What other moves would you make?

Remember what Lindros commanded from Quebec? Think similar or higher.

Caveat: oilers would be nuts to even contemplate it

[270person]

Originally Posted by YYC338

The only problem with that line up is that you still have Draisatl in it. He hasn't proven that he's worth half his salary without a "generational" player on his line to prop him up.

.

When smoking the drapes it's always best to avoid ones containing fibreglass.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Obviously just spit balling, but Tarasenko, Parayko, and St. Louis' first (which should be pretty high as they are in 25th).

A potential lineup would look like this:

Khaira - Draisaitl - Tarasenko

Lucic - Hopkins - Puljujarvi

Spooner - Cave - Yamamato

It obviously drops off quickly after the second line, but the D does't look half bad.

Parayko - Klefbom
Nurse - Larsson
Russell - Benning

Koskinen

And hopefully Bouchard and at least one of the two top 10 picks (Hughes, Dach, Cozens....) would be in the lineup next year.

Not even close and nowhere even close to realistic.

How about Monahan, Turtles, Rittich plus a first and second. I'm probably low.

[Big Sky]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I expect there are about 31 AGM and 31 GMs in the AHL that would give it a shot. They'd likely want to sit down and state they need, at minimum, a 3 year window, this isn't going to be fixed by the end of the CBA mandated break. Very doable if they hire the right guy.

As long as the Old Boys Club is still in charge 'the right guy' isn't touching that job. Under the current regime they might attract an ex gm who is wanting to make a comeback. Don Maloney as an example.

IMO, Chiarelli was only part of the problem.
Fire the OBC and the Oilers will attract qualified candidates.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by 270person

Not even close and nowhere even close to realistic.

How about Monahan, Turtles, Rittich plus a first and second. I'm probably low.

No chance. Why trade for McDavid if you're just putting yourself in the same spot Edmonton is in? The fans often overvalue their players.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Trochu

No chance. Why trade for McDavid if you're just putting yourself in the same spot Edmonton is in? The fans often overvalue their players.

2 of those guys for Mcdavid?

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Trochu

No chance. Why trade for McDavid if you're just putting yourself in the same spot Edmonton is in? The fans often overvalue their players.

I would just like to point out

McDavid 73 points (12.5 mil cap hit)
Draisaitl 61 points(8.5 mil cap hit)
total 21 mil

Gaudreau 73 points (6.75 mil cap hit)
Monahan 61 points (6.375 mil cap hit)
Total13.13 Mil

Same point production out of Calgary's top two as Edmonton's top two for a whole lot less money.

As good as McDavid is, if you don't have cap space to add other good players it doesn't matter 1 guy can't carry a team over 82 games. With the Salary Cap you have to be really good at drafting so you can develop young skilled players that can fill your roster for the league minimum, and you always have to have another guy in the wings to fill his spot as soon as he deserves a raise, or get a young guy back for him. Look at Chicago with Toews and Kane. They just couldn't afford to Keep Panarin.

You can't keep guys around like you used to be able to, you have to constantly be flipping assets, and doing it well. It wouldn't be like trading Lindros as your are so restricted in what you are able to bring in based on the Salary Cap.

Trading McDavid would be Ballsy, it could pay off, although it would be a lot tougher in the salary cap era to get a good return. A few years it might make sense when his contract looks better after a few more increases.