Transient Workers - Good or Bad?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by luv2hunt

Try Bonnyville for example 3 camps set up in town 700 man for one 500 for another and 3rd who knows its crazy , small town can't handle it, like driving down town calgary from 6 am till 8 pm. Word for the wise DO NOT try making a left hand turn in bonnyville accross traffic it won't happen , not kidding lol then not to mention english is not the prefered language at any drive through in town , pretty sure none of them speak english any way. Then let's go to one of the 2 grocery stores lol its a free for all no holds barred , might want to gear up with hockey gloves, elbow pads etc and that's just for the little old ladies, oh yeah and don't forget to bring your wallet your dads wallet and grandpas wallet cause you will need it. But other than those little perc's its a great place to raise a family, your kids will get schooled in proper language and safe use of trudeau's smart smokes, and your kid will need a new bike every other week cause apparently bmx bike means "take me I'm yours" in one of those drive thru languages cause you will need to buy atleast 6 of them. That is all , but its a great place to live

That is too bad bville used to be a great little town.

[Roughneck12]

its kind of like Fort Mac of the south.

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by Roughneck12

its kind of like Fort Mac of the south.

Bonnyville isn't that bad

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by troutbug

The TFW program is abused, there are capable people applying for positions. It was not long ago I think, Pacer, let a bunch of workers go then brought in foreigners. Iv seen this happen first hand on work sites and it drives me nuts.

If you are speaking of the Horizon job, that was resolved and the union iron workers were back.
This had to do with the fact that the workers that were hired were not properly qualified for the job.
Cat

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by troutbug

The TFW program is abused, there are capable people applying for positions. It was not long ago I think, Pacer, let a bunch of workers go then brought in foreigners. Iv seen this happen first hand on work sites and it drives me nuts.

The program is being abused across alberta. One trick is the include their accommodations in their wage. So they charge them high rent, and then pay them smaller checks. The tfw still makes good money comparative to their home but far less then what we consider enough.

Some people say it's a sense of entitlement, maybe that's true but that's the parents fault! Housing prices have more than double, industry profits have more than quadrupled but wages haven't even come close. Trust me I've got it better than most and my job is secure but that doesn't make me ignorant to the plight of others. We are slowly eroding our economy and half the population is too ignorant to consider the reality.

If they're soo qualified make them move here. We could use the tax base!

[roper1]

Transient fine, TFW not so much. As others say, their wages leave the country forever. And in a lot of cases, their income tax refund does also because they have a lot of kids.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by riden

Isn't that a Dad's job?

Some of them turn into a dad pretty quick, and still don't know how to do much of anything.

Our schools don't prep our youth for much of anything, and they are all told how special they are. And with policies of not letting kids fail, they get a real hard life lesson once they get into the real world.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

If you are speaking of the Horizon job, that was resolved and the union iron workers were back.
This had to do with the fact that the workers that were hired were not properly qualified for the job.
Cat

So if the TFW were properly qualified, would they still be here and the Canadian employees still on layoff?

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by riden

I think it is all there now.

40% of your high school credits can come from RAP (on the job trades time, where they get paid to earn credits) and kids can graduate gr 12 with first year apprenticeship done. But few kids choose it.

My local high school has heavy equipment simulators, but few take the course.


There actually is a lot in schools, and it is really expensive (and IMO not possible to justify), but kids think their employer will teach them what they need.

That is my experience anyway.

How many schools offer this? My daughter is going to grade 10 in the fall, and the 3 schools we looked at don't have any of those kind of programs. (not that we were looking for her, but my son will be there in 2 more years too)

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

So if the TFW were properly qualified, would they still be here and the Canadian employees still on layoff?

No because the job was brewing don by union iron workers there was no reason to bring in TFW's on that particular job .
There was a bit more going on than the outfit not being able to get workers
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by roper1

Transient fine, TFW not so much. As others say, their wages leave the country forever. And in a lot of cases, their income tax refund does also because they have a lot of kids.

In the cases of the TFW 's on a union carpenter job they are still members of the UBC and we will not go outside the country until we have exhausted our member resources within the province the nationally.
Cat

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

How many schools offer this? My daughter is going to grade 10 in the fall, and the 3 schools we looked at don't have any of those kind of programs. (not that we were looking for her, but my son will be there in 2 more years too)

Quite a few I think. My BIL did that and was a journeyman HD mechanic by 21 years old. My SIL also took it is 21 now a third year apprentice and had taken a year off to have her baby. And that's a small town school.

[riden]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

How many schools offer this? My daughter is going to grade 10 in the fall, and the 3 schools we looked at don't have any of those kind of programs. (not that we were looking for her, but my son will be there in 2 more years too)

I suspect you just have to dig a little deeper, this is an Alberta wide program. Make a phone call and ask some questions.

http://tradesecrets.alberta.ca/learn...eship-program/

Very likely, it's up to the kids to pursue this a bit, which is why you don't know about it. There is likely some onus on the kids to do some legwork to start this off, which is a good thing. No journeyman wants the school sending them dead wood, and making the kids do legwork is a good idea.

The only real negative I can see is you have closed doors to university if you change your mind. Other than that, if after two years working as an electrician you change your mind........how is a trade oriented kid any worse off for it?

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by riden

Isn't that a Dad's job?

Nailed it

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

No because the job was brewing don by union iron workers there was no reason to bring in TFW's on that particular job .
There was a bit more going on than the outfit not being able to get workers
Cat

I have a friend who was laid off there during that issue. Not sure what the whole issue was, but he was pretty upset about it.

[troutbug]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I have a friend who was laid off there during that issue. Not sure what the whole issue was, but he was pretty upset about it.

From what iv been told, MANY were pretty upset, as would I if that happened

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I have a friend who was laid off there during that issue. Not sure what the whole issue was, but he was pretty upset about it.

Are you forsaking of the issue involving the iron workers or the pipe fitters because they were two different issues
The pipe fitters were working for a sub contractor not the prime contractor
Cat

[KegRiver]

I have mixed feelings about this whole thing.

On the one hand I know some awesome workers who came from overseas to fill jobs no local wanted.

Then there is the bridge crew that messed up the Miekle River bridge.
We have no problem finding people to do that sort of work. The pay is higher then anything in town and they get a lot of hours so they get big paychecks.
Yet this bridge company had almost all foreign workers. And not one of them could speak English.

They didn't seem to have a clue about how to do any aspect of the job.
The end result is they made the bridge absolutely dangerous where it was only just getting a bit rough. I'd like to know what those workers earn. Whatever it is it has to be way less then what a local worker would earn.

I can't imagine any Ontario company out bidding a local company unless it got workers dirt cheap.

Clearly there is a need for workers to do jobs the locals won't do but just as clearly there are companies who would bring in foreign workers to fill jobs where finding Canadian workers is not a problem. The only reason for this that I can see is so get cheap labor.

The first group of workers contribute to the local economy. Yes they send money home, just like a lot of our ancestors did. But they also buy cars, pay rent, eat at resuturants sometimes not to mention buy groceries and cloths, all at the local stores.
They contribute more to the local economy then the Hutterites and Mennonites do.

The latter don't contribute much locally so far as I can tell. I don't see them in the local stores or restaurants. I'm not aware of any of them living in this town or anywhere in Alberta for that matter.
So far as I know they, like the company they work for, all come from Ontario.

Maybe that's why they don't seem to care if they do a good job or not.

[Dog hunter]

Originally Posted by 416 Ultramag

As a small business owner I would gladly hire local Canadian workers as my first choice. Unfortunately though living in Alberta everyone thinks they deserve oil patch wages. Especially the young guys and gals 19-26 years old, even though they have no experience, I honestly think it is an entitlement thing.

Unfortunately not all jobs are not created equal. There is such a thing as starter jobs where kids have graduated from high school but do not know what they want to do yet so they work as a laborer on construction, landscaping fast food. Even though they work 40 hours a week they may not be able to afford a mortgage, but they are not journymen anything, nor are they working towards that. Once they mature and realize that first job wont pay the real bills they move on and either get an apprenticeship or they go to school to improve themselves. And then the next batch moves in....

This is where the dilemma comes in you get these Canadian kids with no experience wanting top wages. A lot of small companies would love to hire these kids, but to stay competitive they simply cannot afford to. It took us almost 8 weeks to find 7 people between the ages of 19-24 and we are one of the best paying in our field. It was almost getting to the point where we were considering out of country workers, not out of choice but out of necessity.

I cant count how many times i've come out of a business and said "where are all the local kids,why aren't they working" I agree with you on this one

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by riden

I suspect you just have to dig a little deeper, this is an Alberta wide program. Make a phone call and ask some questions.

http://tradesecrets.alberta.ca/learn...eship-program/

Very likely, it's up to the kids to pursue this a bit, which is why you don't know about it. There is likely some onus on the kids to do some legwork to start this off, which is a good thing. No journeyman wants the school sending them dead wood, and making the kids do legwork is a good idea.

The only real negative I can see is you have closed doors to university if you change your mind. Other than that, if after two years working as an electrician you change your mind........how is a trade oriented kid any worse off for it?

The three schools we looked at don't offer such a program for industrial training. The one did have a program for cooking.

[tri777]

Transient Workers - Good or Bad?

If there are to many minnows in the lake..let's just
throw some Asian Carp in it an fix the problem/unintended consquences.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Are you forsaking of the issue involving the iron workers or the pipe fitters because they were two different issues
The pipe fitters were working for a sub contractor not the prime contractor
Cat

My friend is an iron worker. Actually I have not really spoke to him in many years other than through facebook. But he was pretty upset about it. He did not go into much detail about the issue, just had a real hate on for any TFW.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I have a friend who was laid off there during that issue. Not sure what the whole issue was, but he was pretty upset about it.

Originally Posted by rwm1273

My friend is an iron worker. Actually I have not really spoke to him in many years other than through facebook. But he was pretty upset about it. He did not go into much detail about the issue, just had a real hate on for any TFW.

Then he is really uniformed because he is throwing his hate towards his union brothers and sisters that travel card TFW's as well as the non union TFW's
Cat

[riden]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

The three schools we looked at don't offer such a program for industrial training. The one did have a program for cooking.

Like I said, make a phone call. The schools don't offer the training. That is the point if the program.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Then he is really uniformed because he is throwing his hate towards his union brothers and sisters that travel card TFW's as well as the non union TFW's
Cat

I can understand his anger if he was laid off in place of a TFW, as this is what he implied. I don't know if this was in fact the case, but if it was, I would be pretty upset too, and would be taking steps to ensure it does not happen again.

In your opinion, is there a systemic problem with companies hiring TFW or even transients over locals? Are there any companies that have a bad reputation of doing this?

I know there are some companies around that have had a bad reputation of hiring part time workers so they didn't have to pay out for some benefits. It seems to be getting better, but how much I am not sure. I took to contracting so as to alleviate some of those issues, and have not been without work in a very long time.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by riden

Like I said, make a phone call. The schools don't offer the training. That is the point if the program.

I think we will look around more when my son is ready for high school. Was not really an issue for my daughter.

[fretman57]

Originally Posted by riden

Isn't that a Dad's job?

Don't you know that common sense became less common when Dad's became expendable except for their money of course!

[fretman57]

Originally Posted by 416 Ultramag

I could be way out here and I am definitely no expert, But I feel our education system is setting our kids up to be drones not individuals or thinkers. Again I am no expert, but if you go into a retail store with problem merchandise or a question about merchandise it seems like the only answer you get is ahhh, I don't know or let me get my manager.

Employers are definitely part to blame, we don't want our employees to actually think for them selves. Instead of being creative or looking for a positive resolution lets just get the boss to sort it out. Our education system seems to be following that same pattern. Hence drone employees once out of school.

In my opinion we should be setting our kids up with more of the basics in education, the three "R". Once the kids are firmly grounded in that they should be confident in which direction to take at post secondary.

Trades are post secondary and they are higher education. No one wants a dummy to build your dream home. In that same sense of education a doctor is also a trade person they go to school, apprentice and eventually they are a Journeyman in their field "Doctor".

Post secondary education is supposed to give someone a career in life. If we as tax payers are subsidizing education we should be encouraging education to fields that involve careers. It is hard to justify someone being subsidized by being an "English Major" What jobs are readily available for this? Just an example I do not mean to offend anyone.

That makes sense in an education system that lets teachers think they can diagnose your children, get them put on psychiatric medications not even safe for adults and turns them into zombies and school shooters!

[fretman57]

Originally Posted by Dog hunter

I cant count how many times i've come out of a business and said "where are all the local kids,why aren't they working" I agree with you on this one

Their parents are working two and three jobs to keep the self entitled brats in the style of living they are accustomed too! Check the kids rooms you will find them on their computers and gaming consoles and Iphones eating the snacks and food their parents bought and blissfully oblivious to their parents plight because of the medication their teacher insisted they be on in grade 2!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I can understand his anger if he was laid off in place of a TFW, as this is what he implied. I don't know if this was in fact the case, but if it was, I would be pretty upset too, and would be taking steps to ensure it does not happen again.

In your opinion, is there a systemic problem with companies hiring TFW or even transients over locals? Are there any companies that have a bad reputation of doing this?

I know there are some companies around that have had a bad reputation of hiring part time workers so they didn't have to pay out for some benefits. It seems to be getting better, but how much I am not sure. I took to contracting so as to alleviate some of those issues, and have not been without work in a very long time.

Well, in my case, the TFW's do not replace local workers or even Canadian workers because as I said, the union agreements and trade rules we work under as the Alberta building trades don't allow it on our union jobs.
However, any time there is an open shop job, our members are working beside non union workers and stuff gets filtered back to us through members about things like lower wages, direct hiring of TFW's making far less than they should be even with Alberta labour laws in place, etc.

This is not what the TFW system is in place for, but it seems to be the way it is of course being used by unscrupulous employers!

As far as transient workers go, they have always been here, be they from 300 miles away or 3,000 miles away, it's part of the World we call construction.
Cat