Measle Plague

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

i know what you were getting at, and i had a chuckle haha.

but immunizations arent the end all be all that the anti's claim them to be. Yes you can still get sick from the virus your supposed to be protected against, but instead of being in the hospital having everything you eat come out both ends, you might just get the runs.

Exactly and I didn't even have to commission a study to know that. Or if a particular strain of flu isn't in the shot etc.

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by expmler

You contend that increased vaccination is responsible for increased cases of autism because one correlates with the other.

Have a look at the graph and tell me if by your logic we could say that CO2 levels in the atmosphere is any less of an explanation.

http://a-sceptical-mind.com/wp-conte...xaggerated.png

I did not intend to make that contention.

At a macro level I disagree with the general philosophy that sickness and death are absolutes that need to be combatted at all cost. I believe the worlds problems are largely demographic and an emphasis on more of us living longer is a self defeating model. Populations naturally self regulate and in spite of our ingenuity, and possibly because of it, chances are that our species will not be exempt from that natural order.

At a micro level I believe that there is a shift in our community health away from the obvious and apparent illnesses such as whooping cough, measles, etc, towards more discreet illnesses and conditions. Ones that are growing at alarming rates but are more difficult to attribute cause. The Institute of Medicine (US Gov) in 2012 was the first government to agree that more than seventy serious illnesses and conditions claimed to be associated with immunisation cannot be dismissed (or proved) for lack of evidence or study.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

No kidding, didn't we all have measles mumps and chickenpox when we were kids?

Yes and thanks to compulsary vaccines in our schools at that time, it was irradicated , now with all thease idiots that dont believe in getting their kids vacinated its making a comeback.WAKE UP PEOPLE

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by C.Noble

I didn't vaccinate my children for my own reasons. The issue with someone not vaccinating and not being able to send their kids to school is a joke! How could my unvaccinated child possibly give your vaccinated child something they have had shots for?? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Stand up and recieve the dummy of the year award and a standing ovation .

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by Gade81

O no, no, it's scientifically proven to only be good.
On a side note, I have a sis in law mostly deaf, from vaccines!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa snongrass

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by C.Noble

I do what I do for my own reasons. You do what you do for your own reasons. To each their own. Not really wanting to argue that much. Just saying how I feel. Have a good night guys!!

You're pretty selfish.

You live in a society. Maybe you should go live outside of society, if you don't care about others.

When your unvaccinated spawn spread their germs to a classmate who goes home to their newborn sibling, who gets infected and dies, please stand up and say "I am responsible for the death of this child because I did what I did for my own reasons."

The selfishness and stupidity burns!!! IT BURNSSSS!!!!

[Sashi]

Check the graph
Deaths from measles was vitually eradicated 20yrs prior to the introduction of vaccine.
The problem is too many of the later generations have been spawned in the shallow end of the gene pool.
Natural immunization was far better than partially effective vaccines.

http://business.financialpost.com/20...ry-of-measles/

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

You're pretty selfish.

You live in a society. Maybe you should go live outside of society, if you don't care about others.

When your unvaccinated spawn spread their germs to a classmate who goes home to their newborn sibling, who gets infected and dies, please stand up and say "I am responsible for the death of this child because I did what I did for my own reasons."

The selfishness and stupidity burns!!! IT BURNSSSS!!!!

We are all pretty selfish and characterizing one individual as stupid for making their choice is unhelpful. Some of us drive big trucks that consume more gas, others live in big houses that consume more energy. Most strive to make more money to make our lives needlessly more comfortable. All those selfish actions have incidental consequences which directly or indirectly cost health and lives.

But hey, lets look for a vaccine against selfishness

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

Stand up and recieve the dummy of the year award and a standing ovation .

Actually he was substantially correct. The core emphasis of the pro vaccination debate has always been the protection from exposure, and the vast majority of people immunized against measles will not contract it despite exposure. However, the cost of that exposure according to the IOM is still largely unknown.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by nelsonob1

We are all pretty selfish and characterizing one individual as stupid for making their choice is unhelpful. Some of us drive big trucks that consume more gas, others live in big houses that consume more energy. Most strive to make more money to make our lives needlessly more comfortable. All those selfish actions have incidental consequences which directly or indirectly cost health and lives.

But hey, lets look for a vaccine against unselfishness

There is a vaccine against selfishness (I assume that's what you meant with your little off topic ramble). It's called "education" (ed-yoo-kay-shun).

[fargineyesore]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

Stand up and recieve the dummy of the year award and a standing ovation .

Why don't you answer his question smart guy, or is it that you can't, so maybe you're not so smart and you're the dummy. You guys that believe everything the government tells you are the reason politicians get away with what they do. Same type of people that believed the governments lies that the Wild Rose was going to do away with health care and the police in the last election, so the idiots voted in the corrupt party we're putting up with today. Yeah lets all tow the government line like a bunch of sheeple.

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

There is a vaccine against selfishness (I assume that's what you meant with your little off topic ramble). It's called "education" (ed-yoo-kay-shun).

You have some good points to make but your personal jibes come across as petty and insecure.

[silverdoctor]

I wonder how many in here believe that similac or other supplementals are better for baby than the boob.

Do some research on immunity a baby gains naturally from the mother at birth and through breastmilk - that's the nature of things, Passive acquired immunity. Studies have been done on babies born to mothers who were vaccinated vs being infected naturally. Babies born to natually infected mothers carry more antibodies for longer than babies born to mothers that were vaccinated. Breast feeding is another major factor.

Vaccinations at younger ages were the result... Vaccinate pregnant mothers and start poking the baby in the womb. When is enough enough? How did the human race survive this long?

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Sashi

Check the graph
Deaths from measles was vitually eradicated 20yrs prior to the introduction of vaccine.
The problem is too many of the later generations have been spawned in the shallow end of the gene pool.
Natural immunization was far better than partially effective vaccines.

http://business.financialpost.com/20...ry-of-measles/

Thank you, Kind of confirmed why I think natural anti bodies are better than any man made ones. Interesting that mothers who have had measles produce natural anti bodies that pass on to there babies and mothers who have had the vaccine do not. Seems to me we are destroying are natural ability to fight of these diseases with all the vaccines today.

If someone feels they need the vaccine fine by me, but don't try and force your believes on others.

[fargineyesore]

Now don't you know that you and I and a few others, according to some on here are: idiots, selfish, and dummies because we can think for ourselves and don't need the government to do it for us. You can't argue common sense or actual experiences with these people, but it doesn't matter, it's either the government line or you're wrong.

[fargineyesore]

I want to add that I am not against vaccines, as it has been shown to work for some things. But to just dismiss other opinions is narrow minded. Its critical thought from individuals that moves society forward.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by fargineyesore

Now don't you know that you and I and a few others, according to some on here are: idiots, selfish, and dummies because we can think for ourselves and don't need the government to do it for us. You can't argue common sense or actual experiences with these people, but it doesn't matter, it's either the government line or you're wrong.

If your attitude wasn't putting others at risk, I'd say "give 'er and do whatever you want." Heck, drive without a seatbelt! Don't buckle up your kiddies! Ride a motorcycle without a helmet! Skydive without a parachute! Boat without a life jacket! Eat big macs all the time! Drink a pint of whiskey a day! I don't really care that much.

But the implications of your lack of understanding of immunology affect more than you and your progeny. You obviously don't understand that.

[raab]

Originally Posted by fargineyesore

Why don't you answer his question smart guy, or is it that you can't, so maybe you're not so smart and you're the dummy. You guys that believe everything the government tells you are the reason politicians get away with what they do. Same type of people that believed the governments lies that the Wild Rose was going to do away with health care and the police in the last election, so the idiots voted in the corrupt party we're putting up with today. Yeah lets all tow the government line like a bunch of sheeple.

Please were all sheeple? How about we understand the basics of immunization and how it works. Sick of having this debate with people who haven't looked at all the research studies and don't have a basic understanding of how they work. If the government wanted to poison you or dumb you down do you think they'd make it optional? Vaccines save lives and reduce your chance for debilitating injuries. That's not up for debate it is a FACT. I just hope your kid never comes down with the measles or polio or any one of the several other diseases we vaccinate for. Maybe once you see what these diseases can do to kids you'll change your tune. /Rant

[plmnnkoqaz]

Originally Posted by nelsonob1

In 1975 the incidence of autism was 1:5000.
2012 that number has increased to 1:110.

1:6 children are now diagnosed with a learning disability.

The incidence of bipolar disorder, auto immune disease, respiratory diseases, diabetes, all have increased at similar dramatic levels all during the same period.

We now have antibiotic resistant bacteria, virus strains that beat immunisation. The depreciating health of our children, the increased level of obesity, diabetes, asthma - this is the real trend but lets just keep immunising and medicating.

The supposed link to autism has been busted. Period.
The reason why we have more autism today is because the diagnostic criteria have been changed. 40 years ago most autistics on the mild side of the spectrum would have just been considered weird or antisocial.
We have more labels now thus it looks like we have more cases. Not saying it's right, just the way it is.
The good old days weren't, it's just only the survivors are here to tell the tale.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

If your attitude wasn't putting others at risk, I'd say "give 'er and do whatever you want." Heck, drive without a seatbelt! Don't buckle up your kiddies! Ride a motorcycle without a helmet! Skydive without a parachute! Boat without a life jacket! Eat big macs all the time! Drink a pint of whiskey a day! I don't really care that much.

But the implications of your lack of understanding of immunology affect more than you and your progeny. You obviously don't understand that.

You should read this.
http://business.financialpost.com/20...ry-of-measles/
In my opinion vaccines are putting everybody at risk by not letting our bodies develop natural anti bodies. Who knows what is going to happen in hundred years with the effects of vaccines. I'll stick with what I believe is the right choice for me and my family. The wife and I both had the measles and our children have natural anti bodies because of it. If one of my children get really sick or die from the measles I can live with that. What I can't live with is being a test for something that takes hundreds of years to see the big picture.

As for putting others at risk, Why are they at risk, is it because the parents had the vaccine and have no anti bodies to pass onto there children? If your that worried about it get one of those bubbles to keep your kid in. Bigger chance of getting into a car accident or something similar. By the time you folks are done everybody will be wrapped in bubble wrap and not aloud to move for fear of hurting them selves or catching something. I will do what I believe is right and you can do what you believe is right, but don't try and force your believes on others.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by C.Noble

What is the problem? If your kid has shots for something they aren't supposed to be able to get it, right?? Unless the vaccines don't work, there should be no issue. If my kid gets sick it's on me, but your kid, that's been pumped full of crap, should not be able to get these diseases

What about the kid that cannot have the vaccine and due to poor health issues and is at considerable risk if they were to catch any serious communicable disease. This is literally a life and death issue for some kids.

Diabetickripple regarding your natural selection comment, I may be wrong but you don't have any kids at this time. See how that statement fits when its your kid in the hospital.

Originally Posted by fargineyesore

I want to add that I am not against vaccines, as it has been shown to work for some things. But to just dismiss other opinions is narrow minded. Its critical thought from individuals that moves society forward.

I frickin hate that sheeple comment, its brought out when you have no reasonable argument or point to make. I have researched vaccines found all the information I could and made my decision based on facts.
My first born had health issues until he was 5, could not get vaccinated and even a common cold was tough to deal with. The stress my wife and I went threw those first years was incredible. He is now 14 years old hunts and fish's his butt off and has 0 health issues. He has all his vaccines as does all of our family. Our choice was based on information, fact and consideration for the society we live in.

The sheeple comments go both ways. The Anti vaccine portion are ****ing and moaning about being forced to vaccinate, when its not true. They don't bother to inform themselves either.
The Ontario vaccination law for school attendance can be circumvented with an exemption letter. You can get an exemption by demonstrating you fully understand your choice and possible consequences of not vaccinating.
In short you can choose to not vaccinate and go to school.
Your right to choose is intact and alive, as it should be.

[Rdamours]

We may the education level of a third world country in this province and subsequently all the problems that go along with it.

If you don't want to get immunized for something that can only affect you then go right ahead. I'd also recommend snowmobiling on the lakes this time of year as well as it's part of natural selection. The internet is a wonderful thing. You can find out in 5 minutes to how to change a part on your snowblower but don't condense 8 years of post secondary education plus 2+ years of residency down to 5 minutes from something you read off the internet. I'd say you could use the info you found off the internet and ask your Dr. If 95% of Dr's agree I'd say go for it as the 5% account for the flakes in any profession.

If you've chosen to not immunize your children for whatever reason then you have given your daughter the wonderful choice of terminating her pregnancy when she contracts the measles during pregnancy or living with a child riddled with multiple defects that were entirely preventable. Dad knew best I guess...

There are also people on immunosuppressants like prednisone that are compromised that don't need anymore problems.



If you're already immune to rubella when you're exposed, there's a small risk of reinfection, but it's unlikely that your baby would become infected. Further testing may not be necessary, but you should still contact your caregiver to discuss your individual situation.

If you're found to have rubella in early pregnancy, you'll see a maternal-fetal medicine specialist about the risks to your baby, and you'll need to decide whether to terminate the pregnancy. There's no known effective treatment for rubella or any way to prevent infection after exposure.

If you choose not to terminate your pregnancy, your practitioner may give you a shot of immune globulin as soon as possible after exposure in the hope of reducing your baby's risk of defects. However, the shot won't prevent your baby from becoming infected.

How can I reduce my risk of getting rubella while pregnant if I'm not immune?

Unfortunately, you can't receive the rubella vaccine if you're already pregnant. If you're not immune, you'll just need to be careful to avoid anyone with a rash or virus as well as anyone who's recently been exposed to rubella and hasn't had it before. Here are some important precautions:
•Make sure that your children have had all their vaccinations and that anyone else in the house who's not immune gets the vaccine. (You won't catch rubella from someone who has recently been vaccinated.)
•Avoid contact with other people if there's even one known case of rubella in your community. Stay home from work or school during the outbreak until you're informed by public health officials or your caregiver that the danger of infection has passed.
•Definitely postpone travel plans to any part of the world where rubella is still common.

[karlster]

Originally Posted by bison

Nope i never got the chicken pox.
I was immune,..I milked cows when i was a kid

Chicken pox is caused by varicella zoster - a member of the herpesvirus family. It is the one that causes shingles when it reactivates in adults.
Cow pox, which you intimate you were exposed to, is a member of the poxvirus family.

Natural exposure to cowpox would not confer immunity to chicken pox.

karlster

FYI - cowpox was used by Jenner to immunize people against smallpox.

[silverdoctor]

For those that were vaccinated and have never had certain infections/diseases may want to think twice about your own immunity.. According to this news article:

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...220134938.html

A couple of interesting lines...

People who were immunized against measles and other diseases via childhood vaccinations are getting the disease, suggesting the inoculation's effectiveness wears off over time, Postmedia News reports.

"There is a concern we may need to vaccinate more — double dosing for adults as we do for children," said virologist Earl Brown, a professor emeritus at the University of Ottawa.

Again, I don't have to worry about it, already had all the typical childhood stuff.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

You should read this.
http://business.financialpost.com/20...ry-of-measles/
I

As for putting others at risk, Why are they at risk, is it because the parents had the vaccine and have no anti bodies to pass onto there children? If your that worried about it get one of those bubbles to keep your kid in. Bigger chance of getting into a car accident or something similar. By the time you folks are done everybody will be wrapped in bubble wrap and not aloud to move for fear of hurting them selves or catching something. I will do what I believe is right and you can do what you believe is right, but don't try and force your believes on others.

There are many health issues that prevent a person from getting vaccinated.
Many of these reasons are why getting sick from the measles or other sickness has serious health implications.

You are right about a bigger chance of getting in a car accident, we all wear our seat belts its the only protection we have. The only reason the odds are that way though is because of the vaccination rate we do have along with health officials that take measles outbreaks seriously. Take the vaccination program out of the equation and put one infected kid in a class and the odds are against those kids and at greater risk than a car accident.

[brownbomber]

Originally Posted by fargineyesore

Now don't you know that you and I and a few others, according to some on here are: idiots, selfish, and dummies because we can think for ourselves and don't need the government to do it for us. You can't argue common sense or actual experiences with these people, but it doesn't matter, it's either the government line or you're wrong.

I think it's because some see it as a extension of anti government beliefs extending to everything the government tells you as being wicked or evil or in some way trying to limit your personal freedoms. As in you're not anti government you're sheep.
I'm all for thinking for yourself until it hurts other people. A free thinker fought tooth and nail to send their chicken pox (non vaccinated) child to school. Sure my kids are vaccinated but clearly like others have pointed yes they can still contract just not as bad as the free thinkers child. My .02 and I'm not trying to judge.
As for silver doctor yes I agree that most babies should be on boob, it takes a lot of commitment but my kids are pictures of health and strength strong and tall

[silverdoctor]

Go back to 2011, Quebec outbreak of measles. Here's an interesting read for you, and it's still somewhat vague.


http://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/en/sujets...rtrait2011.php

The stats say in black and white that 21% of confirmed measles cases were vaccinated. How many were vaccinated but don't know for sure? No proof of vaccination? Has to be a few more percentile? I'd say the number is higher than 21%.

That to me is scary folks. Studies are now showing that adults vaccinated as kids should get vaccinated again...

From the article on the Quebec government website:

Vaccination status of cases

A number of 615 cases (79 %) were not considered protected (immune) for the following reasons:

Had not received any dose of vaccine,
Had no proof of vaccination,
Were not eligible for vaccination,
Did not know that they had already been vaccinated or whether they had the disease.

Among them were 29 children less than one year old, which is the minimum age to receive a first dose of vaccine.

29 infants (under 1 year of age) got the measles... It's proven that passive immunity in babies of vaccinated mothers is weaker than that of mothers that had the damn virus.

[silverdoctor]

2007, quebec.

http://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/en/sujets...rch26_2009.php

The age of cases varied between 7 months and 46 years. Close to two-thirds (64%) were children aged between 5 and 14, the average age being 13.6. The great majority of cases (94%, or 88 cases) were deemed non-immunized. Eleven persons were hospitalized, among whom were six children aged between 1 and 14 and five adults aged between 22 and 40. All recovered well.

94% were deemed not immunized, by the same rules as above - can't prove or disprove they had the vaccines. 6% were immunized properly.

If measles vaccine is so effective, we shouldnt' be seeing these numbers...? Lets say if there were a major outbreak at some point - 100,000 people - would 6% (6000) or 21% (21,000) be acceptable?

Or would parents be in a sheer panic? These are real numbers...

[Scotty P.]

Not that the Sun has the best reporting but I saw this and found it interesting. Take it for what it's worth.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/04/24...o-be-immunized

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Sashi

The first item on the news at noon, was another confirmed case of the measles in Edmonton. How did families ever survive in the past, mom would lift our tee shirt and say yup it's the measles. I guess mom is not here to confirm the measles any more.
Is it time to PANIC???

I was actually ignorant to the fact that there is a shot for them. I just thought most kids got them and life went on.

Originally Posted by Ryry4

SARS, bird flu, west nile, pig flu. People get way to jumpy when people start getting sick. Just because there is a vaccine for something doesn't mean no one will get it. Getting sick is a part of life, it's how our immune systems get stronger and are able to fight off other sicknesses.

This was always the thought process in my life. When I got sick other than a cold I knew I wouldn't get that strain again. I would be immune.

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

No kidding, didn't we all have measles mumps and chickenpox when we were kids?

All the kids I went to school with got them and I never heard of anyone dying in our part of the country. Mind you the population wasn't what it is now.


I have tried to do the google thing and although I'm not very good at it I do use it to try and answer questions that I have. The question that I asked myself was what is the difference between vaccination, innoculation, and immunization?
I came up with this;

Inoculation is a method of purposefully infecting a person with an organism in a controlled manner so as to minimise the severity of the infection and also to induce immunity against further infection.

Vaccination is the process of administering weakened or dead pathogens to a healthy person, with the intent of conferring immunity against a targeted form of a related disease agent.

Immunization is the process by which an individual is exposed to an agent that is designed to fortify his or her immune system against that agent.

Immunization is the same as inoculation and vaccination in that inoculation and vaccination use a viable infecting agent like immunization does. Immunization is just the general term for vaccination and such things as what you gain from these process. Between inoculation and vaccination, the process of administering the organism gives the difference.


Since I'm not sure what term to use and be correct I will not use any of them, I will use the word needle.
When I was in elementary school I believe I got needles for small pox and polio. I'll have give up my age,(56) Can't really remember how many I got or what they were for. All I know is that I'm alive and kicking today. I'm of two minds when it comes to needles. When it comes to something like small pox and polio from what I've read a lot of people died because of just these two alone. So I guess needles preventing them was a good thing.
I got the chicken pox, measles, and mumps when I was a kid so I shouldn't ever get them again because I guess I was lucky to be healthy and strong enough to battle them and develope an immunity to them. A question that I have that doesn't ever get answered because all I ever see is opinions.
If the people that have all the needles that are supposed to prevent all the bad bugs, why are you so concerned wether or not if someone else has got the needles? You are protected. Supposedly.