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  #151  
Old 04-26-2014, 09:10 AM
waterninja waterninja is offline
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Originally Posted by canadiantdi View Post
You don't call retarded people retards. It's bad taste. You call your friends retards when they're acting retarded.

Michael Scott



On the vaccination topic:

A Penn and Teller BS video concerning vaccinations. Caution, course language!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo
have to thank the poster for the penn and teller link. never watched one before and found it (and others) very interesting. enjoy the straight talk and format.
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  #152  
Old 04-26-2014, 10:59 AM
beansgunsghandi beansgunsghandi is offline
 
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Default Solid information

This is the best collection of real evidence and discussion I've found on vaccination: http://violentmetaphors.com/2014/03/...being-lied-to/

And thank you Mr. Lynx.
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  #153  
Old 04-26-2014, 11:59 AM
connexion123 connexion123 is offline
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You know what ****es me off about this measles outbreak? The fact that I can't take a pack a peanut butter sandwich in my kids lunch, but yet kids can attend school without being vaccinated? Wtf is up with that?
Freedom of not being forced to be inoculated. That's what's up with that.
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  #154  
Old 04-26-2014, 02:37 PM
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I'm sure the large number of peanut allergies is a direct result of smaller class sizes today.

In my time we had class sizes that were regularly over 30 pupils and we ate PB&J sandwiches everyday, including the crusts.

My childhood summers had a body count of polio victims in the newspaper daily. Not so much anymore.

The cemetery on the hill behind my place has a section of small graves. All from before vaccinations and modern medicines.

There's a reason why it's called practicing medicine. It is not an exact science. But it is probably the best on the planet. Take advantage of it.

The only thing 100% guaranteed is you won't get out of this life alive.
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  #155  
Old 04-30-2014, 09:29 AM
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Default 1-2 out of 1000 kids that get measles die

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/04/29...tral-alberta-2

Measles outbreak declared in Calgary, Edmonton and central Alberta 35

By Michael Platt ,Calgary Sun
First posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 06:54 PM MDT | Updated: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 07:30 PM MDT

Dr. Judy MacDonald, medical officer of health for Calgary zone.

Article


There aren’t that many — but there should be none at all.

That worrying fact, and the serious risk that those few measles cases will soon be lots, has health officials in Calgary using a word they typically avoid.

Outbreak.

It’s the health system equivalent of sounding the alarm bell — both to warn those willing to protect their children, and hopefully keep those who refuse vaccines from making everyone else sick.

“This is not normal to have nine cases of measles within a four-month period,” said Dr. Judy MacDonald, medical officer of health for the Calgary zone.

“When we look back at our history of measles, from 2000 to 2013 in the Calgary zone we had 20 cases spread out over that period.”

So far in 2014, there have already been 22 cases of measles in Alberta, leading the province to declare an official outbreak in the Calgary, Central and Edmonton Zones of Alberta Health Services.

“It doesn’t change how we’ve been handling our response to measles cases, but what it does mean is that we have cases showing up and we can’t identify the source,” said MacDonald.

On Wednesday, the province will announce plans for special immunization clinics for babies and young children.

The outbreak means babies between six and 12 months are advised to get in line for a special early dose of vaccine, to provide short-term protection from the air-borne virus.

For kids older than four, those attending school or daycare in the outbreak zone are being told to get a second dose of the measles vaccine.

Those without two documented doses risk being banned from school, if any cases of the disease are reported among staff or students.

Finally, the AHS says anyone else born in or after 1970 should seek two documented doses of measles vaccine, to consider themselves protected.

Overkill?

You’ll get some old timers who claim measles was no big deal, because they lived through it without fancy vaccines and such.

And of course, there are parents who trust internet statisticians over actual doctors, preferring to believe in a global pharmaceutical conspiracy rather than the World Health Organization.

But the fact is, even in a developed country like Canada, the mortality rate for measles is one or two deaths for every 1,000 cases — and 140,000 children die from the disease globally each year.

Most kids don’t die — they just suffer horrible complications like brain damage and corneal scarring.

And it’s a ridiculously easy virus to catch: Just walk into a room where a measles carrier was breathing anytime in the past two hours, and an unimmunized person is over 90% likely to be infected.

For those parents who’ve refused the vaccine, measles is a time to see if trusting in Jenny McCarthy was justified.

But for those who can’t be vaccinated — including pregnant women and cancer patients — the risk is unfair, when this was a disease that had been eradicated in Canada.

That’s why the outbreak alarm is being sounded, to convince a province where the vaccination rate has now dipped to only 84% — and as low as 42% in some regions — to smarten up.

Herd immunity — meaning a population where so many people are vaccinated diseases like measles can’t gain a foothold — only works when most people still get the shot.

With those numbers falling and people more prone to travelling to parts of the world where vaccines are still seen as a medical miracle, dread diseases are coming back.

That rare word, outbreak, may not be so rare in the future.

michael.platt@sunmedia.ca

On Twitter: @SUNMichaelPlatt



For the latest information on measles and clinics in the Calgary area, go to www.albertahealthservices.ca/measles



SOME FACTS ON ALBERTA’S MEASLES OUTBREAK

Of the 22 confirmed cases of measles so far, nine have been in Calgary, six in Edmonton and seven in central Alberta.

In Calgary, four patients had not been vaccinated despite being old enough, two had no record of vaccination, and three had some level of immunization.

Four of Calgary’s nine cases were directly related to travel to the Philippines.

On Wednesday, the province will announce plans for special immunization clinics for babies and young children.
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  #156  
Old 04-30-2014, 09:52 AM
brobones brobones is offline
 
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Yikes that is awful..
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  #157  
Old 04-30-2014, 01:17 PM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
In Calgary, four patients had not been vaccinated despite being old enough, two had no record of vaccination, and three had some level of immunization.
My math adds up to 9 cases - at least 3 of those cases were fully immunized.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/02/07...eady-immunized

Quote:
Three of four recent measles victims in Calgary had been immunized against the potentially fatal virus, a health care official said Friday.
Immunized is defined as having both required doses.
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  #158  
Old 04-30-2014, 02:08 PM
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Default Damn medical studies!!

I just read that 5-6% of helmets will fail leaving the wearer dammaged/crippled.

Motorbike and work helmets should be banned... Or at least I shouldn't be forced to use such hazardous things.

I also read that seatbelts can kill 2% of wearers when using them in an accident.
We better ban them babies as well. Or at least give me the choice NOT to wear such a hazardous device.

Such a Stalinist society we have.

Question.... If unimmunized people get infected, should the regular citizen have to she'll out the tax $ to heal them? Sometimes I wonder about healthcare and the idea of due dilligence....

Oh and yes, I'm home right now with my girl who has J.A. She's on an oral chemo treatment that suppresses her immunity. So this discussion hits home pretty well for me.

'Your rights end where mine begin' JS Mills.


Is your 'freedom' actually trumping my little girls freedo
?

You tell me what's fair.

And yes, she's home with a fever.
Yes, I'm worried.
Imagine if she got measles...
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  #159  
Old 04-30-2014, 03:02 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Simple - If you have been immunized for measles, you don't pay any costs for your diagnosis / treatment (if required). If you are not immunized, you pay. Someday, litigation will be filed asking for damages from someone who chose not to be immunized (or their guardian) ....
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  #160  
Old 04-30-2014, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
I just read that 5-6% of helmets will fail leaving the wearer dammaged/crippled.

Motorbike and work helmets should be banned... Or at least I shouldn't be forced to use such hazardous things.

I also read that seatbelts can kill 2% of wearers when using them in an accident.
We better ban them babies as well. Or at least give me the choice NOT to wear such a hazardous device.

Such a Stalinist society we have.

Question.... If unimmunized people get infected, should the regular citizen have to she'll out the tax $ to heal them? Sometimes I wonder about healthcare and the idea of due dilligence....

Oh and yes, I'm home right now with my girl who has J.A. She's on an oral chemo treatment that suppresses her immunity. So this discussion hits home pretty well for me.

'Your rights end where mine begin' JS Mills.


Is your 'freedom' actually trumping my little girls freedo
?

You tell me what's fair.

And yes, she's home with a fever.
Yes, I'm worried.
Imagine if she got measles...
You are right. Best wishes to you and your baby as well. Prayers if you're into that.
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  #161  
Old 04-30-2014, 03:26 PM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Simple - If you have been immunized for measles, you don't pay any costs for your diagnosis / treatment (if required). If you are not immunized, you pay. Someday, litigation will be filed asking for damages from someone who chose not to be immunized (or their guardian)
....
Why should I pay if someone was immunized and caught the measles? I already payed for the vaccine that I don't believe in and now you say pay again for the failed vaccine?


By that logic I will be able to get money from people with the common cold if I catch it from them for not staying at home.
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  #162  
Old 04-30-2014, 03:36 PM
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Understand the concept reasonable due dilligence.

It's a slippery slope idea though
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  #163  
Old 04-30-2014, 05:06 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Originally Posted by dmcbride View Post
Why should I pay if someone was immunized and caught the measles? I already payed for the vaccine that I don't believe in and now you say pay again for the failed vaccine?


By that logic I will be able to get money from people with the common cold if I catch it from them for not staying at home.
As it is today, you pay for all health care costs...if those who chose not to be immunized for measles (or their dependents) required treatment...they would pay. For some, that expense would be life-long. But, it would save you money.
Not talking about colds, no vaccine for that.
Regarding liability..why not? The science regarding immunization is real. Someday, a court will be asked to decide if there is responsibility for passing on a disease that could have been avoided through immunization.

Last edited by 260 Rem; 04-30-2014 at 05:12 PM.
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  #164  
Old 04-30-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
Understand the concept reasonable due dilligence.

It's a slippery slope idea though
Exactly it's about doing the best you can for yourself and society. I hope for all the best in your situation!
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  #165  
Old 04-30-2014, 06:48 PM
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rem338win rem338win is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Simple - If you have been immunized for measles, you don't pay any costs for your diagnosis / treatment (if required). If you are not immunized, you pay. Someday, litigation will be filed asking for damages from someone who chose not to be immunized (or their guardian) ....
For the tiny issue this is, I'll agree if we look at the bigger issues. I want abortions to stop being publicly funded because people don't accidentally fall on dinks, I want smokers to be cut off period, anyone that consumes more than a 6 pack a week to no longer have coverage for liver and kidney disease, and any damn fool that has a motorbike, ATV, hang glider, or any participant in a hobby that more dangerous than chess. And if you allow your body fat and/or cholesterol to exceed reasonable standards set by the WHO you have to personally pay more into healthcare on a relative scale. All of this is preventable and a greater risk and burden as well.
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  #166  
Old 04-30-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rem338win View Post
For the tiny issue this is, I'll agree if we look at the bigger issues. I want abortions to stop being publicly funded because people don't accidentally fall on dinks, I want smokers to be cut off period, anyone that consumes more than a 6 pack a week to no longer have coverage for liver and kidney disease, and any damn fool that has a motorbike, ATV, hang glider, or any participant in a hobby that more dangerous than chess. And if you allow your body fat and/or cholesterol to exceed reasonable standards set by the WHO you have to personally pay more into healthcare on a relative scale. All of this is preventable and a greater risk and burden as well.
Well the killer types are going to h e double hockey sticks anyway, please not cigs, the xgames and sled necks can get bent, you Booze you loose, and the fatty fats will soon die but not without my scorn so yeah I guess I could get behind that
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  #167  
Old 04-30-2014, 07:05 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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For the tiny issue this is, I'll agree if we look at the bigger issues. I want abortions to stop being publicly funded because people don't accidentally fall on dinks, I want smokers to be cut off period, anyone that consumes more than a 6 pack a week to no longer have coverage for liver and kidney disease, and any damn fool that has a motorbike, ATV, hang glider, or any participant in a hobby that more dangerous than chess. And if you allow your body fat and/or cholesterol to exceed reasonable standards set by the WHO you have to personally pay more into healthcare on a relative scale. All of this is preventable and a greater risk and burden as well.
All good points...but lets start with measles. Measles is not a small issue for the kids that die or are handicapped for life.
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  #168  
Old 04-30-2014, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
All good points...but lets start with measles. Measles is not a small issue for the kids that die or are handicapped for life.
We all die, but of what? Even if we all stop vaccinating, by historical record the issues I listed will kill more "kids" and or injure them and or have permanent physical effect in greater numbers.

The absolute worst statistic that can be found is 1-1000 people that contract have abnormal effect. We have a whopping <40 people in 1 year time, all of which have connection to the Philippines by third party. Early reporting and quarantine have greater effect in these cases for prevention.

I can tell you that the news and a panic driven few are very much blowing this out of proportion. If only legionnaires disease or staph infections that hospitals happen to kill people with got this much attention. You'd think experts like those that occupy those places could prevent that....

Chill out folks. Your blaming something that isn't actually the problem.
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  #169  
Old 04-30-2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rem338win View Post
We all die, but of what? Even if we all stop vaccinating, by historical record the issues I listed will kill more "kids" and or injure them and or have permanent physical effect in greater numbers.

The absolute worst statistic that can be found is 1-1000 people that contract have abnormal effect. We have a whopping <40 people in 1 year time, all of which have connection to the Philippines by third party. Early reporting and quarantine have greater effect in these cases for prevention.

I can tell you that the news and a panic driven few are very much blowing this out of proportion. If only legionnaires disease or staph infections that hospitals happen to kill people with got this much attention. You'd think experts like those that occupy those places could prevent that....

Chill out folks. Your blaming something that isn't actually the problem.
No skin in the game eh?
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  #170  
Old 04-30-2014, 09:52 PM
Robin Goodfellow Robin Goodfellow is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
All good points...but lets start with measles. Measles is not a small issue for the kids that die or are handicapped for life.
What are the chances of that happening?

More specifically, what are the chances of that happening to a Canadian child?
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  #171  
Old 04-30-2014, 10:08 PM
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What are the chances of that happening?

More specifically, what are the chances of that happening to a Canadian child?
very real....?????/
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  #172  
Old 04-30-2014, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Simple - If you have been immunized for measles, you don't pay any costs for your diagnosis / treatment (if required). If you are not immunized, you pay. Someday, litigation will be filed asking for damages from someone who chose not to be immunized (or their guardian) ....
Already been tried a few times in the US, but unsuccessful.
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  #173  
Old 04-30-2014, 11:58 PM
fargineyesore fargineyesore is offline
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Originally Posted by rem338win View Post
For the tiny issue this is, I'll agree if we look at the bigger issues. I want abortions to stop being publicly funded because people don't accidentally fall on dinks, I want smokers to be cut off period, anyone that consumes more than a 6 pack a week to no longer have coverage for liver and kidney disease, and any damn fool that has a motorbike, ATV, hang glider, or any participant in a hobby that more dangerous than chess. And if you allow your body fat and/or cholesterol to exceed reasonable standards set by the WHO you have to personally pay more into healthcare on a relative scale. All of this is preventable and a greater risk and burden as well.
I agree with much of what you say. The difference I see is people that have done nothing to bring ills on themselves, such as children, are affected. I agree with vaccines for the major diseases. If this one is then ok. I was against keeping kids out of school.
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