Catch a dinosour. (Sturgeon)

[warriorboy10]

I have been attempting to hook a dino. in the North Sask. River, Edmonton area. Haven't had any luck. Game-on between my wife and me, who will catch the first dino. Maybe in need of a lesson or a tip or two. Tips or Locations!! Will travel to find them if needed.

Greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!!

[newfierefugee]

Considering Sturgeon are classified as a species at risk, they should not be targeted.

Killing, harming, etc., listed wildlife species

32. (1) No person shall kill, harm, harass, capture or take an individual of a wildlife species that is listed as an extirpated species, an endangered species or a threatened species.



http://www.sararegistry.gc.ca/approach/act/Part9a_e.cfm

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by newfierefugee

Considering Sturgeon are classified as a species at risk, they should not be targeted.

Newfie, have you ever fished for cutthroat trout in Alberta?

warriorboy10, do a thread search, you'll get lots of tips from them. Have fun!

[RedHeadedFisherman]

Originally Posted by warriorboy10

I have been attempting to hook a dino. in the North Sask. River, Edmonton area. Haven't had any luck. Game-on between my wife and me, who will catch the first dino. Maybe in need of a lesson or a tip or two. Tips or Locations!! Will travel to find them if needed.

Greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!!

talk to BBJ or Geezle on here, they live in EdmonChuck, and know lots and have had major sucess of late,.. (congrats to Geezle on that baby dino ) ))

wish i still lived in Emonton up by the Rexall Place ( 82 ave, )

[warriorboy10]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Newfie, have you ever fished for cutthroat trout in Alberta?

warriorboy10, do a thread search, you'll get lots of tips from them. Have fun!

Good point walking buffalo!!
Newfie, I have caught and released more fish than I care to count. It is very important to me as a sportsman to look after what we have.
As far as the dino's go. It is my belief that our fine head biologist for our fine province don't have an actual clue about how many sturgeon we have running in the nsr. So therefore they call it a fish at risk. How many sturgeon have you caught, and if you have did you ever catch the same tagged fish twice?? I would bet not!! The nsr is a great fishery and yes we need to look after it. Information that is not accurate does not help the situation.
If you know anything about our alberta lakes and some of the horiffic management practices that has close to destroyed those fisheries. Just to name a few. Pigeon, Slave and Elinor.
Anyways sorry for the rant, but some PPLL just PMO!!

[newfierefugee]

Warriorboy, you make alot of assumptions about me... Guess i'm part of the "some PPLL just PMO!!"

A bit of reading can detail how they come up with these dwindling numbers...
http://www.srd.alberta.ca/biodiversi...s/sturgeon.pdf

page 8 and page 9 specifically. Makes one think...

I've never targeted a sturgeon, never will. My way of fishing the NSR will negate the possibility of ever hooking one. I for one don't need trophy pics or trophy fish.

How many sturgeon do you think there are left in the NSR??? Tell us about what you believe? The question I have for you is "how many fish would have to be left in order for some individuals to sit back and think maybe it's a bad idea to take the chance on targeting a species, to chance killing them". You can't guarantee a clean hook every time you catch.

Can you guarantee that you won't hook a sturgeon through the gills and kill it? There's already a discussion on the board started by geezle about a sturgeon killed by being kept out of the water. I wonder how many sturgeon are killed every year by people that target the species, mishandle them then use the "shoot, shovel and shutup" attitude. We'll never know.

As for me? I've caught and released more fish than I can count - and yeah, i'm killed a few fish in the process. I do the best I can not to, I go way above and beyond what the regs require - and that's my choice. I'm not going to explain why I do anything to you.

Same goes for grizz in this province, they are on the endangered species list - but some just won't believe the numbers are that low. Like many, I've done alot of driving in this province, both far north and south, east and west - and i'm yet to lay eyes on a grizzly - i've never seen one of these magnificent creatures in the wild. Seen alot of blacks but only ever seen tracks of a grizz. That really gets me think about things.

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by newfierefugee

Warriorboy, you make alot of assumptions about me... Guess i'm part of the "some PPLL just PMO!!"

A bit of reading can detail how they come up with these dwindling numbers...
http://www.srd.alberta.ca/biodiversi...s/sturgeon.pdf

page 8 and page 9 specifically. Makes one think...

I've never targeted a sturgeon, never will. My way of fishing the NSR will negate the possibility of ever hooking one. I for one don't need trophy pics or trophy fish.

How many sturgeon do you think there are left in the NSR??? Tell us about what you believe? The question I have for you is "how many fish would have to be left in order for some individuals to sit back and think maybe it's a bad idea to take the chance on targeting a species, to chance killing them". You can't guarantee a clean hook every time you catch.

Can you guarantee that you won't hook a sturgeon through the gills and kill it? There's already a discussion on the board started by geezle about a sturgeon killed by being kept out of the water. I wonder how many sturgeon are killed every year by people that target the species, mishandle them then use the "shoot, shovel and shutup" attitude. We'll never know.

As for me? I've caught and released more fish than I can count - and yeah, i'm killed a few fish in the process. I do the best I can not to, I go way above and beyond what the regs require - and that's my choice. I'm not going to explain why I do anything to you.

Same goes for grizz in this province, they are on the endangered species list - but some just won't believe the numbers are that low. Like many, I've done alot of driving in this province, both far north and south, east and west - and i'm yet to lay eyes on a grizzly - i've never seen one of these magnificent creatures in the wild. Seen alot of blacks but only ever seen tracks of a grizz. That really gets me think about things.

Personally......and I target them......OFTEN, have never ever not caught a sturg other than on the lip and of the many many many others that I have seen caught have never ever seen one not caught in the lip.
It is not illegal to fish for them. Till it is (which it will not be) I will continue to fish for these beautiful dinos, and continue to happily release them.
Too each his/her own my friend.
IMO.

[bobalong]

[QUOTE=warriorboy10;644235]Good point walking buffalo!!
Newfie, I have caught and released more fish than I care to count. It is very important to me as a sportsman to look after what we have.
As far as the dino's go. It is my belief that our fine head biologist for our fine province don't have an actual clue about how many sturgeon we have running in the nsr. So therefore they call it a fish at risk. How many sturgeon have you caught, and if you have did you ever catch the same tagged fish twice?? I would bet not!! The nsr is a great fishery and yes we need to look after it. Information that is not accurate does not help the situation.
If you know anything about our alberta lakes and some of the horiffic management practices that has close to destroyed those fisheries. Just to name a few. Pigeon, Slave and Elinor.
Anyways sorry for the rant, but some PPLL just PMO!![/QUOTe

About 6 years ago they estimated about 2500 in the NSR. Anglers on the tagging program have caught the same tagged sturgeon numerous times, sometimes the same year and sometimes years later.

[walking buffalo]

Newfie,

Maybe you missed my question to you, so I'll ask again.

Have you ever fished for Westslope Cutthroat trout in Alberta?

[newfierefugee]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Newfie,

Maybe you missed my question to you, so I'll ask again.

Have you ever fished for Westslope Cutthroat trout in Alberta?

The answer is no, and what does that have to do with anything? I won't target anything that's endangered. My own personal choice thank you.

[ishootbambi]

newfie has never seen a grizzly bear so i guess alberta must not have any . i have seen 11 grizzlies in one valley in the kanaskis. doesnt mean there are more than we know what to do with, but does suggest there are a few bears out there.

same for sturgeon. if the estimates are as low as some ive heard, explain how i have caught more than 30 in a day.....on at least 10 occasions. maybe there are a few of those in alberta as well? it wasnt too long ago that someone invented a tale about finding fishfinders giant sturgeon floating dead and citing info that there are only 10 fish that size in the entire river system.....yet we have proof on this board of at least 4. they certainly do need to be looked after carefully as they grow and reproduce mighty slow.....but their populations seem to be increasing from actual fish surveys a nd tagging programs. if you dont wish to join in the fun of catching these cool beasts thats your choice, but please try not to sneer down your nose at those who do.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Newfie I think you need to take your thoughts and beliefs else where . There is nothing wrong with Targeting Sturgeon .And if you dont like that , maybe there is somewhere else you can go . If you are lucky enough to hook into one , and get it landed that is a pretty lucky and awesome thing . Its all in proper handling . Making the fight , a good fight but not killing the fish , When releasing the fish dont keep it out of water more then it needs to be . Pop the hook out , if there is difficulty removing the hook CUT IT . There's no need for a fish to die due to improper handling .


Now to the Original poster , I will respond to your pm .

[newfierefugee]

You're all missing my point here, I never once said that I don't like it. I pulled and posted a clip from a website and got torn a new ass for it. It's my personal choice not to target this species, and i'm not putting my choice on anyone else.

I asked a few simple questions. Yes BBJ, I think most know how to properly release a fish - but from what i've seen people do over and over, I wonder if I can say most. i have no doubt that you know how to do so - that was never in question.

My main question is how much mortality comes with catching and releasing sturgeon every year by people that don't know what the heck they are doing. How many people kill sturgeon and use the "shoot, shovel and shutup" attitude.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by newfierefugee

The answer is no, and what does that have to do with anything? I won't target anything that's endangered. My own personal choice thank you.

You are welcome to your own personal choice, no one here is telling you otherwise.

My question to you has everything to do with your posts here. Westslope Cutthroat Trout are also listed as threatened in Alberta. The same people responsible for managing these threatened species have determined that fishing for them is acceptable, even keeping some threatened fish in certain waters is allowed. So if you are going to accept the wildlife management bodies decision to list the fish, you should also accept their decision to allow the continuation of fishing for them.

[birchy]

Originally Posted by newfierefugee

You're all missing my point here, I never once said that I don't like it. I pulled and posted a clip from a website and got torn a new ass for it. It's my personal choice not to target this species, and i'm not putting my choice on anyone else.

Originally Posted by newfierefugee

Considering Sturgeon are classified as a species at risk, they should not be targeted.

Killing, harming, etc., listed wildlife species

32. (1) No person shall kill, harm, harass, capture or take an individual of a wildlife species that is listed as an extirpated species, an endangered species or a threatened species.



http://www.sararegistry.gc.ca/approach/act/Part9a_e.cfm

Really? Then you might want to re-think the way you word things.. saying "they should not be targeted" and then quoting a regulation is quite different from saying "it's my opinion that they should not be targeted".

[newfierefugee]

Originally Posted by birchy

Really? Then you might want to re-think the way you word things.. saying "they should not be targeted" and then quoting a regulation is quite different from saying "it's my opinion that they should not be targeted".

What does "should not" mean? They "should not" be targeted. Did I tell him straight out not to fish for them? Did I tell anyone straight out not to fish for them? No.


I've asked this question twice - here it is a third time.

My main question is how much mortality comes with catching and releasing sturgeon every year by people that don't know what the heck they are doing. How many people kill sturgeon and use the "shoot, shovel and shutup" attitude.

That's the main thing i'm wondering - but it seems like people want to quote and shoot me over what they want to.



Walking Buffalo, I see your point and I to agree with you... Here's my problem and it has nothing to do with you...

So if you are going to accept the wildlife management bodies decision to list the fish, you should also accept their decision to allow the continuation of fishing for them.

It just seems that your "should" and my "should" are two different things. I'm getting my arse chewed on for using should...

Sturgeon are on the species at risk registry - and under this canadian law should not be caught or harassed... That's my understanding of it. Maybe I don't understand how a species can be protected by law but yet, be allowed to fish for them. Does it mean the laws in Alberta trump canada laws?

How many posts do i read in here about people kindly educating others - maybe someone should cut me some slack and give me a little education on the matter cause I don't understand it.


newf.

[mooseman128]

Newfe I am not going to say you are right or wrong in your comments, as I am pretty sure you got the jist of what most people think of your comments. However do a little research on the Sturgeon fishery on the Frazer. They almost shut it down some years back and with the help of local guides and fisherman, through a tagging system it was discovered the "estimated" population was not even close to what it really was. Perhaps if our "resource" department would look at duplicating a simular program here we could get a better idea of what the population is. Yes I know there is tagging of them all ready going on in the NSR but not even close to the extent it is taking place out west. In three days, of the 8 dinos we caught we tagged 2 that had never been caught including the 6' 7" monster!!

[walking buffalo]

Newf.

You hooked yourself using your own bait, gonna have to unhook yourself too.

Here is an update on the Sturgeon Recovery Program, January 2009.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/BioDiversi...te-Jan2009.pdf

Estimated 700 adults in '08.

Of 250 sturgeon caught and tagged in the Medicine Hat region in '08, only 4 were recaptures.


IMO, the study is young, and the data is not sufficient to confidently estimate the population of sturgeon. The reason for putting sturgeon on catch and release fishing only was a safety measure until we knew more about them and their numbers. If sufficiently funded, in a few years, this monitoring program will have the a much better grasp of sturgeon populations, and how to manage them into the future.

What the data is showing now, is that there are more sturgeon in our rivers than first estimated, time will tell us just how many more. The best news is that plenty of young fish are being caught, they are still able to reproduce despite the damming of these rivers.

[surhuntsalot]

I have little faith in stats posted relating to SRD. The main reason being is pure and simple... FUNDING ! It is much easier to get funding for a study on a "Species At Risk" or better yet an "Endangered Species", than it is to get funding for studying fish or wildlife that has a healthy or increasing population. With all the cuts SRD has undergone, it's not hard to see why there would be an extra effort by biologists to make the "Everythings At Risk" idea predominant in order to keep their jobs for being the next to come under the axe... " You Need Us... To Study Things... And Save You From Yourselves"... I just don't buy it.

Has anyone ever questioned why there is a "0 Limmit" for walleye on the NSR from Drayton Valley to the Sask. border ? It's sure not because of low walleye populations... There may be a lower creel count within Edmonton city limmits, but that doesn't account for the hundreds of miles of river with a healthy walleye population blanketed under this closure. Even on the Bow river, I believe there were several fish management areas within Calgary city limmits. So why the blanket closure on such a large portion of the NSR ?

Now put that in conjunction with an attempt (got shot down)at bringing in a Bait Ban on the NSR this past winter... Well call me a Conspiracy Theorist, but I've just seen too many things as of late that lead me to believe that most of our biologist honestly think our fish and wildlife is there only for them to photograph and study, and not to be caught or shot (unless it bennifits their studies to a gerater extent)

I went out for 4 hours on Sunday with my girlfriend,,, We caught 4 sturgeon, lost another 4, caught 17 walleye, 5 goldeye, and 2 suckers....

It's too bad there aren't many fish left in the NSR...

[surhuntsalot]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

IMO, the study is young, and the data is not sufficient to confidently estimate the population of sturgeon. The reason for putting sturgeon on catch and release fishing only was a safety measure until we knew more about them and their numbers. If sufficiently funded, in a few years, this monitoring program will have the a much better grasp of sturgeon populations, and how to manage them into the future.

There has been a tagging program that started almost 20 years ago in the early 90's... Alot of the legwork being done by volunteers...

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by surhuntsalot

I have little faith in stats posted relating to SRD. The main reason being is pure and simple... FUNDING ! It is much easier to get funding for a study on a "Species At Risk" or better yet an "Endangered Species", than it is to get funding for studying fish or wildlife that has a healthy or increasing population. Has anyone ever questioned why there is a "0 Limmit" for walleye on the NSR from Drayton Valley to the Sask. border ? It's sure not because of low walleye populations... There may be a lower creel count within Edmonton city limmits, but that doesn't account for the hundreds of miles of river with a healthy walleye population blanketed under this closure...

Put that in conjunction with an attempt (got shot down)at bringing in a Bait Ban on the NSR this past winter... Well call me a Conspiracy Theorist, but I've just seen too many things as of late that lead me to believe that most of our biologist honestly think our fish and wildlife is there only for them to photograph and study, and not to be caught or shot.

I went out for 4 hours on Sunday with my girlfriend,,, We caught 4 sturgeon, lost another 4, caught 17 walleye, 5 goldeye, and 2 suckers....

It's too bad there aren't many fish left in the NSR...

Originally Posted by surhuntsalot

There has been a tagging program that started almost 20 years ago in the early 90's... Alot of the legwork being done by volunteers...

I hear ya Sur, and agree, not enough funding for the basics, and too many 'pet' projects.

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by surhuntsalot

There has been a tagging program that started almost 20 years ago in the early 90's... Alot of the legwork being done by volunteers...

If I had a reliable boat, I would gladly be one of those volunteers

[great white whaler]

Looks like the tagging program as payed of,,

[wannafish]

Originally Posted by surhuntsalot

I went out for 4 hours on Sunday with my girlfriend,,, We caught 4 sturgeon, lost another 4, caught 17 walleye, 5 goldeye, and 2 suckers....

CAN I COME NEXT TIME?? I'm quiet and I dont eat much

[The DragonSlayer]

Just ignore the Rants and "Dis"es. You are entitled to your opinion without getting "filleted". (Although I don't agree with you)

[AlbertaAngler]

Originally Posted by newfierefugee

Sturgeon are on the species at risk registry - and under this canadian law should not be caught or harassed... That's my understanding of it. Maybe I don't understand how a species can be protected by law but yet, be allowed to fish for them. Does it mean the laws in Alberta trump canada laws?

newf.

Hey Newf.

The reason that the SARA doesn't come into play is because the Alberta population is not listed in Schedule 1 of the act. the 32(1) section you refer to only applies to animals and plants list in scedule 1. Hope this clears up the confusion a little.

AA

[warriorboy10]

Awesome folks!!

Lets just make sure that when we are so fortunate to hook into one of these great creatures that we put it back with the utmost care.

I fished with BBJ last evening and he takes a cradle to the river with him. He cares about these fish and wants to make sure that he is able to continue to fish for such a magnificent dinosours. Thanks BBJ!!