Coyote theif

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Lambs Navy

I would think the guys stealing the animal likely are going to sell it in the round but those shooting live coyotes in snares blowing them apart are likely sending a message. Not everybody likes trapping and snaring.

Total BS!!! If I find a live catch in a snare I'm going to dispatch it.....PERIOD! I'll shoot every live caught coyote in a snare that I see, especially if I know the fella only does his check every few days, and if I'm out hunting and all that I have is a 30.06 then that's what I'll use. I'd like to think that most reasonable people would, and if you wouldn't then you ought to give your head a serious shake. I guess that I'm an anti by your standards then. I'm good with that because I'm comfortable with my personal ethics and I wouldn't just leave a coyote Caught in a snare.......that's just not right IMO.

[H380]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Total BS!!! If I find a live catch in a snare I'm going to dispatch it.....PERIOD! I'll shoot every live caught coyote in a snare that I see, especially if I know the fella only does his check every few days, and if I'm out hunting and all that I have is a 30.06 then that's what I'll use. I'd like to think that most reasonable people would, and if you wouldn't then you ought to give your head a serious shake. I guess that I'm an anti by your standards then. I'm good with that because I'm comfortable with my personal ethics and I wouldn't just leave a coyote Caught in a snare.......that's just not right IMO.

I agree Dave , guys are shooting em in somebody elses snare and wrecking them are just plain ****** , and I dont buy the " I didnt know it was in a snare" story . Pretty obvious the animal is in distress and not able to leave . Dispatching it cleanly and with regard to minimal damage is the only ethical thing to do . If you know the trapper , a call would also be much appreciated as well I'm sure .

[drake]

Do you guys shoot coyotes in footholds too?

[Lambs Navy]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Total BS!!! If I find a live catch in a snare I'm going to dispatch it.....PERIOD! I'll shoot every live caught coyote in a snare that I see, especially if I know the fella only does his check every few days, and if I'm out hunting and all that I have is a 30.06 then that's what I'll use. I'd like to think that most reasonable people would, and if you wouldn't then you ought to give your head a serious shake. I guess that I'm an anti by your standards then. I'm good with that because I'm comfortable with my personal ethics and I wouldn't just leave a coyote Caught in a snare.......that's just not right IMO.

BS to you too! Get a club and hit it on the head like any normal person would. Blow it apart with a 30.06? Get your head checked.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Lambs Navy

BS to you too! Get a club and hit it on the head like any normal person would. Blow it apart with a 30.06? Get your head checked.

Club? It's not exactly a pike.

I'm with Dave on this one, if I see a live coyote it rapidly becomes a dead one. If I figured it was in a trap or snare I'd get close enough to aim at the head but if it's just sitting/laying there it gets shot as per normal. And no, I wouldn't shoot an obviously dead one.

Drake - My guess is most guys wouldn't really think about the possibility of a trap before shooting at a coyote. Truthfully I wouldn't have either before following this forum.

[Tfng]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Club? It's not exactly a pike.

With proper technique a club is just as humane as a bullet and is legal at night. Thankfully finding a live coyote in my snare is extremely rare for me now.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by drake

Do you guys shoot coyotes in footholds too?

No, I wouldn't shoot a coyote caught in a foothold but only because I trap and understand the difference between a killing snare and a foothold trap. I also know what water head is. Most people don't though, they just see an animal caught in a trap and figure that they are doing it a favour. Hunters with rifles aren't going to worry about wrecking the fur and use a club, they're just going to shoot it, they're not anti trapping. If I went back the next day and it was still there I'm not sure what I'd do but I would definitely want to light a fire under the trapper's butt to get him off of his arse and do what he's supposed to be doing. If I couldn't find the guy maybe shooting his coyote would send the right message that he ought to be checking his traps before someone shoots it.

I check my snares every day but I won't try to push my ethics on anyone else, that's a personal thing. If someone shot a live caught coyote in one of my snares and told me about it I'd likely thank him, despite the disappointment of losing that fur. That would be his own personal ethics. To each their own.

[TBark]

I'm thinking people up to no good are out because the conditions are right for them, mild and only 3" of snow.
Cheap to fill your tank too to be out and about as compared to other winters.
Have trappers had these same problems on previous years, with 2ft + of snow ?

TBark

[nube]

Originally Posted by Lambs Navy

BS to you too! Get a club and hit it on the head like any normal person would. Blow it apart with a 30.06? Get your head checked.

I agree with you Lamb. Pure BS on that!! Lots of ways to take care of it and not blow a hole in it to make it useless.

[Thunder/FX]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Total BS!!! If I find a live catch in a snare I'm going to dispatch it.....PERIOD! I'll shoot every live caught coyote in a snare that I see, especially if I know the fella only does his check every few days, and if I'm out hunting and all that I have is a 30.06 then that's what I'll use. I'd like to think that most reasonable people would, and if you wouldn't then you ought to give your head a serious shake. I guess that I'm an anti by your standards then. I'm good with that because I'm comfortable with my personal ethics and I wouldn't just leave a coyote Caught in a snare.......that's just not right IMO.

I agree with you here Dave
Total BS

[nube]

Dave, nobody is against you putting an animal down but blowing a huge hole in it and wasting the fur is just plain retarded. You owe it to the animal for a fast kill and to not waste the animal. If you don't know how to put a coyote down without a gun then you got a lot to learn. I have done it numerous times with no bullet or bat and it isn't that hard.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by nube

I agree with you Lamb. Pure BS on that!! Lots of ways to take care of it and not blow a hole in it to make it useless.

Phil, what would you do if you knew nothing about trapping and you came across a live caught coyote in obvious distress? I'd like to think that most hunters would dispatch it and not just leave it that way. Who's going to go out of their way to club it and risk getting bit when they have a rifle in their hand....lol? I don't club my own so I'm certainly not going to club someone else's. If a guy needs $100 that bad he can have one of mine that I've already put up. No one that I associate with would just leave it like that. I couldn't understand how anyone could.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by nube

Dave, nobody is against you putting an animal down but blowing a huge hole in it and wasting the fur is just plain retarded. You owe it to the animal for a fast kill and to not waste the animal. If you don't know how to put a coyote down without a gun then you got a lot to learn. I have done it numerous times with no bullet or bat and it isn't that hard.

Yeah, I have a lot to learn alright but my ethics are my own and I understand the ethics of outher outdoorsmen that I associate with. Some people will understand and others will not.....it's an ethics thing. A lot of non-trapping hunters that I know would be totally p*****ed to see a coyote in that situation, as with any animal. I don't like seeing it myself. Yeah, it might be a p*** off but I understand 100% the lack of concern for the pelt and the concern for dispatching the coyote. Some run around using things like this to spread paranoia about Anti's systematically sabotaging trappers when it's simply the average Joe that have a strong compassion for animals (ie hunters).

[rcmc]

Originally Posted by Trappingman

Truth hurts eh Dave....keep on guzzling

I can see both of sides of the topic here, I would would personally put a live coyote down in a snare and would like someone to put one my coyotes down if found alive by someone. I guess the problem arises when the other person is only carrying a deer sized rifle and doesn't posses the skills to dispatch it any other way. Lastly to Trapperman, I find your personal attacks on here disgusting and not needed here.

[pikeslayer22]

I'm with you Dave...this deer season I came up to a Yote in a ditch with a snare around its neck caught up in the fence. Killed him with my 7mm...not a bat or tire iron.

[Marty S]

Never good to take matters into your own hands when it comes to somebody else's property and equipment. People get beat up for doing such, regularly.

It is currently illegal in Alberta to disturb traps, sets or cabins. Blowing the feces out of somebody else's coyote with a shotgun or high powered rifle falls in that category. It's illegal. By all means, nobody is going to mind if you use a 22 unless it's very hot and he's running steel traps or possibly even using cable restraints.

If you see such a thing somewhere, call the landowner. He will see to it that things are taken care of.

Many jurisdictions have 72, even 96 hour checks on live holding devices. Some jurisdictions don't actually have check laws. I can think of three, and only two are south of the border. (I don't know what it is in the territories)

A point of interest... cable restraints were tested in the USA best management practices and scored like 96%, crazy high compared to other live holding devices. Is the animal held alive in a snare actually suffering? Obviously not.

Lets not give the antis that read our material daily any ammunition.

[rcmc]

Marty, one problem I have is when a trapper makes a bad decision to make a catch to close to the public eye, such as to close to a road for example, a live coyote in a trap or snare isn't what we want the public to witness, and it does happen. So in that case I prefer it be dispatched quickly by any means.

[Bowie]

I have never come across an animal held in a trap but if I were to, say come across a coyote. What method beside a bat( which I tend to carry with me when I'm hunting(sarcasm)) would one use to quickly dispatch the animal without a rifle or risking injury myself?

[Marty S]

The best would be to mind your own business. Please don't take offence at that. As said before, if you have a problem with what goes on on somebody else's land or lease, contact the land owner or lease holder.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Marty S

The best would be to mind your own business. Please don't take offence at that. As said before, if you have a problem with what goes on on somebody else's land or lease, contact the land owner or lease holder.

I never post on this forum, only read it but this one I have to comment on.

Most ridiculous logic I have ever heard. If a thing is wrong, where it is happening is irrelevant and it IS my business. I don't agree with wasting fur but head shooting a live yote does not harm the trapper and puts the animal out of any misery it is in. You want to try to have me charged with interfering with a trap be my guest. If someone was really trying to interfere there would be no snares left, how hard do you think it is to follow the trails left putting the snares up, and the fur would be gone too.

[gman1978]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I never post on this forum, only read it but this one I have to comment on.

Most ridiculous logic I have ever heard. If a thing is wrong, where it is happening is irrelevant and it IS my business. I don't agree with wasting fur but head shooting a live yote does not harm the trapper and puts the animal out of any misery it is in. You want to try to have me charged with interfering with a trap be my guest. If someone was really trying to interfere there would be no snares left, how hard do you think it is to follow the trails left putting the snares up, and the fur would be gone too.

I totally disagree, if somebody legally harvested a coyote in a foot trap, the animal is in no harm and let the trapper dispatch the animal. Don't mess with his sets.

[nube]

I think for a lot of guys that have not seen a live coyote in a trap they think it is some crazed mad dog trying to bit them if you get close. It is quite the opposite....

[Marty S]

Originally Posted by rcmc

Marty, one problem I have is when a trapper makes a bad decision to make a catch to close to the public eye, such as to close to a road for example, a live coyote in a trap or snare isn't what we want the public to witness, and it does happen. So in that case I prefer it be dispatched quickly by any means.

There's always exceptions to the rule, I guess if I shot someone's coyote with my 22, technically it could be a violation, but in such a place I would.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by gman1978

I totally disagree, if somebody legally harvested a coyote in a foot trap, the animal is in no harm and let the trapper dispatch the animal. Don't mess with his sets.

The discussion is about dispatching live caught coyotes in snares, not foothold traps. It's even in the quote that you posted your reply to.

[gman1978]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

The discussion is about dispatching live caught coyotes in snares, not foothold traps. It's even in the quote that you posted your reply to.

My apologies Dave.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Marty S

Never good to take matters into your own hands when it comes to somebody else's property and equipment. People get beat up for doing such, regularly.

It is currently illegal in Alberta to disturb traps, sets or cabins. Blowing the feces out of somebody else's coyote with a shotgun or high powered rifle falls in that category. It's illegal. By all means, nobody is going to mind if you use a 22 unless it's very hot and he's running steel traps or possibly even using cable restraints.

Pulling something like that off might work where you trap but you'd have to be a special kind of stupid to try it around here. Notwithstanding that you'd better know who you are dealing with, what do you think someone would do if they did get beat up....lol! There are so many ways to screw someone like that it's not even funny. Letting the landowner know about what happened probably wouldn't go over to well and good luck getting permission in this area. I guess afterwards the trapper would run around complaining about the anti's, eh? If that's what's happening then maybe the problem isn't with anti trappers, it's with anti idiots. Some people are there own worst enemy.

I think that the intelligent thing to do would be to thank the individual and try to build a rapor with him. That way you may earn his respect and he might even tell his buddies that you're an okay guy. Reputations go a long way around here, good and bad.

I'm pretty sure that you'd be hard pressed to find a F&W Officer around here who, under the circumstances, would charge you with tampering with a trap. Very doubtful IMO.

[Trappingman]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Pulling something like that off might work where you trap but you'd have to be a special kind of stupid to try it around here. Notwithstanding that you'd better know who you are dealing with, what do you think someone would do if they did get beat up....lol! There are so many ways to screw someone like that it's not even funny. Letting the landowner know about what happened probably wouldn't go over to well and good luck getting permission in this area. I guess afterwards the trapper would run around complaining about the anti's, eh? If that's what's happening then maybe the problem isn't with anti trappers, it's with anti idiots. Some people are there own worst enemy.

I think that the intelligent thing to do would be to thank the individual and try to build a rapor with him. That way you may earn his respect and he might even tell his buddies that you're an okay guy. Reputations go a long way around here, good and bad.

I'm pretty sure that you'd be hard pressed to find a F&W Officer around here who, under the circumstances, would charge you with tampering with a trap. Very doubtful IMO.

If someone filed a complaint you would be charged simple as that Dave

[parfleche]

Fellows If I may :: :40 years ago it was 1976 . Those were the years the Federal Provincial Committee for Humane trapping was formed .
As far as REAL rules of ethics I believe it was whatever it took to snare a coyote, Short snares on a piece of haywire , with Hoffman locks and some with no locks ! A LOT with no locks . You could get a county or municipal bond to chase coyotes on snowmobiles etc. ALL acceptable then .
THAT or those years were what got all the rules brought in on trapping etc . It was a weekly debate on TV with antis coming out of the woodwork !a person by the name of Clement in BC comes to mind ! and the practices of the day were gradually stopped and a lot of improvements were brought in AND I might add BY TRAPPERS not antis!
It was our lot to clean the mess up . Unfortunately some of this has died very hard . I was part of that effort , I submitted an idea record and prototype to the committee and it became lost . Low and behold someone very near my area came up with the power snare patent . Life sucks . But in all fairness to compare today,s trappers to what went on 40 years ago is wrong . It may be in certain areas IE: USA or perhaps some diehard old timers or some lazy trappers who may not have the time or the will to improve themselves . The Conibear for example is a fruit of that improvement Due to Frank Conibear
The Ram Power snare with credit due to Bruce Bertram of Birtle Manitoba
The Sauvageaux Body Grip due to Guy Sauvageaux Quebec
As is the Belisle Bo0dy grip AND footsnare due to Michele Belilse himself
The Rudy Body grip and Rudy red wolf trap due to Rudy also of Quebec
Ld L is another fine body grip
The Sennecker stinger snare and trigger due to Marty Sennecker of Hays Alberta
I could go on but in every case a trapper has been the one to modify or improve methods in fur taking in Canada
Canada as you may may not know is the leader in and at the forefront of humane trapping in the world !
Resident trappers in Alberta are regulated to 24 hour trap checks ! That was not in existence 40 years ago
Traps Now have to be certified for use foothold or body grip so that again is an improvement
The criteria for a humane dispatch in a body grip or submersion set is 300 seconds or 5 minutes Both the same time ! But it is what it is
THAT was not an issue 40 years ago !
A trappers certification course has to be passed before a person may set traps out . THAT was not necessary 40 years ago
So the by the seat of your pants trapping is not legal today as it should not be !
Can some of today,s methods be improved? I,m sure they could and I would bet a trapper will be the one who brings that about !
All the while remembering that it takes THOUSANDS of dollars to bring an idea to fruition!
I strive very hard to keep up the best practices and trap ethically!
So could you show me where this is not the case ? I,m sure you could!! But the consumption of alcohol while driving is zero and THAT is still an issue LOL
So Yes forty years ago what is posted above did not exist . I was there I am still part of it and I take exception with those who would without proof lump us all in the same basket ! Thanks

[Shane s]

Very well said sir.
X2

[Thunder/FX]

Originally Posted by Trappingman

If someone filed a complaint you would be charged simple as that Dave

Your interpretation of the law is so very incorrect.
The live animal in the set is NOT part of the set.
If the person has lawful access to the property for the purpose of hunting your out of line.
The dispatch of the animal is not a disturbance of the set.
Actually it is THAT simple.
Get your facts straight