Oilers Fans Matter

[270person]

Originally Posted by Trochu

No chance. Why trade for McDavid if you're just putting yourself in the same spot Edmonton is in? The fans often overvalue their players.

Like you're doing now you mean? If you think 3 "good" players and 2 draft picks is unreasonable for the worlds biggest name....well i cant help you.McDavid Takes the Jockey into the stratosphere. He's the best hockey player in the world hands down.

We aren't even talking the marketability. Again, hands down the biggest draw in hockey. Flames would probably even become the fan favorite in Alberta. You'd get out of the Squashed Beer Can Dome and into something from this century. Just imagine your glee.

Oilers aren't my team either.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Maybe down the road a bit, depending on the unknowable future it works out that way. The only deals I can think of that went that way would be the Herschel Walker and Ricky Williams trades, and in both cases, it was because the star player dropped of a cliff or got hurt.

The Oilers didn't win by "trading" Gretzky, they didn't win by trading Messier or Coffee either. The players in return or the draft picks never replaced their value, at least not in my opinion. I don't think Ottawa won in the Karlson trade, BOS didn't win in the Seguin trade, VAN didn't win in the Luongo trade, Subban was the better player in that trade, and it's pretty clear to me that NAS won that trade hands down, add names like Gilmour, Chara, etc... The record of trades where a bonafide superstar is moved isn't a good one for the team that traded them away.

I'd reverse your point and it would have the same effect. Look at what one single player has done for the franchise, almost single handedly. He's dragged them to where they are today pretty much by himself, it's clear to everyone the sad (sadder) state the Oilers would be in without him on the team. If that doesn't prove his worth, I don't know what will.

You are so much closer to getting to the top when you have that generational player - Crosby, Kane, Doughty, Ovechkin, even a Brodeur. Having that anchor point makes putting the rest of the pieces together a heck of a lot easier than building from the middle of the road, unless you're Detroit lol, and you draft two likely hall of famers in the 6th and 7th rounds in back to back years.

Your comparison to the 80's Oilers is poorly chosen.

Firstly, Gretzky was traded in 1988 and the Oiler's won a cup in 1990 (without the generational player).

Gretzky had a fabulous supporting cast of future hall of fame'rs around him. Where are this versions Messier's, Coffey's, Kuri's, Fuhr's, Anderson's, etc?

How many of the current Oiler's outside of McJesus are future HOF'ers? The number is either 0 or 1 (don't pick one, you'd be wrong). The current supporting cast isn't fit to carry the hockey bags of those 80's Oilers.

When the Great One was traded to teams with inferior supporting casts (like today's oiler's) how many cups did he win? The number is either 0 or 1 (again, don't pick 1)

Also Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, etc. weren't traded to make the Oiler's better back then. Pocklington needed money so Gretzky was gone, he wouldn't pay Messier so he was gone. Same with Coffey. They weren't hockey trades.

Edmonton could make a hockey trade to improve their team, but not with the current gang of old boys there in the front office now.

Do you really think there's enough in the hopper or room in the salary cap in the next 3 or 4 years to provide McDavid with even half the supporting cast he needs?

Meanwhile McDavid is one serious knee injury away (God forbid) from losing his wheel's which is his greatest asset. Skill at speed.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Jamie

2 of those guys for Mcdavid?

[sgill808]

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by 270person

You're a funny guy, you actually think a team giving up their No. 1 center, future captain, starting goalie, and 1st overall pick is "low". This isn't a fantasy pool...

Sure, he's good, but does he play goal? Are starting goalies easy to find?

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by 270person

Like you're doing now you mean? If you think 3 "good" players and 2 draft picks is unreasonable for the worlds biggest name....well i cant help you.McDavid Takes the Jockey into the stratosphere. He's the best hockey player in the world hands down.

We aren't even talking the marketability. Again, hands down the biggest draw in hockey. Flames would probably even become the fan favorite in Alberta. You'd get out of the Squashed Beer Can Dome and into something from this century. Just imagine your glee.

Oilers aren't my team either.

Nope, not like what I'm doing. Tough to overvalue the top players on the team that's in second.

[HunterDave]

So, the decision to sack Chirelli was a “team decision” and he was told after the second period of last night’s game. Is that why the players came out in the third with more of a jump in their stride? It makes me wonder.....

[bessiedog]

:well..........boys



........ gotta admit....... she’s tough to positive up on dis stuff....

But I guess on the bright side,
Wifey told me not to throw out my oilers colored brown paper bag wit the eyes just right....


I get to reuse and recycle! Dats a good thing.... :/





Go Oil!

[Twisted Canuck]

Bessie, if they had a Hart Trophy for fans...you'd be the Oilers MVP buddy. They need the support of the fans, even though sometimes it's pretty hard. We are a tough crowd to please, but you always hang in there. Yup, you'd get the Fan's Hart for sure.

[Jamie]

I am still having a very hard time believing they let him sign that Goalie.
Bob said today this had been in the works for a bit and that PC knew it was probably coming. As well, PC was in charge of signing the GT and giving him top 20 $$$ and a no trade contract. Based on 30 games......

Something is not adding up. Someone is lying or someone is the absolute worst business man in the history of the world.

Are you Fricking kidding me?

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Bessie, if they had a Hart Trophy for fans...you'd be the Oilers MVP buddy. They need the support of the fans, even though sometimes it's pretty hard. We are a tough crowd to please, but you always hang in there. Yup, you'd get the Fan's Hart for sure.

Bessie does rock. But now I know that he lives in Southern Alberta it makes sense..
;-)

[223MB]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I am still having a very hard time believing they let him sign that Goalie.
Bob said today this had been in the works for a bit and that PC knew it was probably coming. As well, PC was in charge of signing the GT and giving him top 20 $$$ and a no trade contract. Based on 30 games......

Something is not adding up. Someone is lying or someone is the absolute worst business man in the history of the world.

Are you Fricking kidding me?

I’m willing to give the koskinen a chance, mind blowing that he was given that contract after such a small sample size though. They could have waited until the end of the season and even if he put up .920+ numbers and a buttload of wins he would still only be worth 4.5ish. But if he craps the bed you could have signed him to a much more team friendly contract in the 2.5 range and a shorter term too.

If we are lucky and he turns into a #1 4.5 could end up being a good deal but only time will tell. In order to get a true idea of the goalie your dealing with you must improve the team in front of him first. You could put the leagues current #1 goalie in the pipes right now and he wouldn’t have the greatest numbers.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by 223MB

I’m willing to give the koskinen a chance, mind blowing that he was given that contract after such a small sample size though. They could have waited until the end of the season and even if he put up .920+ numbers and a buttload of wins he would still only be worth 4.5ish. But if he craps the bed you could have signed him to a much more team friendly contract in the 2.5 range and a shorter term too.

If we are lucky and he turns into a #1 4.5 could end up being a good deal but only time will tell. In order to get a true idea of the goalie your dealing with you must improve the team in front of him first. You could put the leagues current #1 goalie in the pipes right now and he wouldn’t have the greatest numbers.

Thats not my point. It doesn't matter if he is the second coming of Ken Dryden. Someone gave the keys to the vault of the guy they were about to fire. Or they had no plans on firing him and it was a last second choice. Thats the issue.

[223MB]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Thats not my point. It doesn't matter if he is the second coming of Ken Dryden. Someone gave the keys to the vault of the guy they were about to fire. Or they had no plans on firing him and it was a last second choice. Thats the issue.

Which is where the problem definitely lies, among PC being fired the entire front office should have gone as well. Hockey ops, president, GM, assistant GM, head of scouting etc. As they all have influence on signings, trades and player movement within a club. That signing would have gone by many ears prior to the paperwork being filed.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

........ gotta admit....... she’s tough to positive up on dis stuff....

It is unfortunate someone lost their job, but from a fans perspective, isn't this the best thing that's happened to the organization since signing McDavid?

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I am still having a very hard time believing they let him sign that Goalie.
Bob said today this had been in the works for a bit and that PC knew it was probably coming. As well, PC was in charge of signing the GT and giving him top 20 $$$ and a no trade contract. Based on 30 games......

Something is not adding up. Someone is lying or someone is the absolute worst business man in the history of the world.

Are you Fricking kidding me?

Instead of posting (blabbing) on here about Oilers, you should have listened to Bobby's Burgers statement that when the management team met in Phoenix last week, they ALL decided to give Miko the contract based on what they saw coming up next year for goalies available. This was NOT a CHIA deal on it's own.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Thats not my point. It doesn't matter if he is the second coming of Ken Dryden. Someone gave the keys to the vault of the guy they were about to fire. Or they had no plans on firing him and it was a last second choice. Thats the issue.

I have a very hard time believing that it was PC decision to sign Koskinen to those terms. I suspect the owner, AGM, president, etc. were influential in this.

Originally Posted by 223MB

Which is where the problem definitely lies, among PC being fired the entire front office should have gone as well. Hockey ops, president, GM, assistant GM, head of scouting etc. As they all have influence on signings, trades and player movement within a club. That signing would have gone by many ears prior to the paperwork being filed.

I agree, so as to above, the organization is just as susceptible to making bad decisions (I don't think its a terrible signing, but I appear to be in the minority) as PC.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by RandyBoBandy

Instead of posting (blabbing) on here about Oilers, you should have listened to Bobby's Burgers statement that when the management team met in Phoenix last week, they ALL decided to give Miko the contract based on what they saw coming up next year for goalies available. This was NOT a CHIA deal on it's own.

Oh, I heard that because I was watching the news conference.. But no way should they let the guy they were about to fire do the negotiations. And if they did, they are dumber than I thought. It could have waited till this weekend. Your new goalie got a sweet heart deal based on the incompetence of people above the GM. Do you think that PC gave a crap about what he gave up knowing he was headed out the door?

If you can't understand that, I don't have the time or the Crayons to explain it to you.
LOLOL

[millartech]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I have a very hard time believing that it was PC decision to sign Koskinen to those terms. I suspect the owner, AGM, president, etc. were influential in this.







I agree, so as to above, the organization is just as susceptible to making bad decisions (I don't think its a terrible signing, but I appear to be in the minority) as PC.

The Koskinen contract shows that this mess isnt all on Chia, but he was definitely a problem. His trade track record dating back to the Bruins is terrible. 4.5 mill to a goalie who has started 24 games, is 30 years old, and lacks consistency is a bad contract. A new GM wont fix the deep rooted issues in that organization.


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[YYC338]

Originally Posted by millartech

The Koskinen contract shows that this mess isnt all on Chia, but he was definitely a problem. His trade track record dating back to the Bruins is terrible. 4.5 mill to a goalie who has started 24 games, is 30 years old, and lacks consistency is a bad contract. A new GM wont fix the deep rooted issues in that organization.


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Bingo!

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by millartech

The Koskinen contract shows that this mess isnt all on Chia, but he was definitely a problem. His trade track record dating back to the Bruins is terrible. 4.5 mill to a goalie who has started 24 games, is 30 years old, and lacks consistency is a bad contract. A new GM wont fix the deep rooted issues in that organization.


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Would Calgary give Rittich 4.5 million per year right now?

[brendan's dad]

I watched the Nicholson interview today. When he was speaking about Koskinen he actually said they choose Koskinen over Talbot. He then back tracked a little and said Talbot is still an important part of the organization. If Talbot is still an Oiler after the Allstar break I will be very surprised.

[trapperdodge]

I'm an oiler fan but they are quite possibly the worst franchise in pro hockey.

How many times have they made the playoffs in the last 20 years? They are like the Blue Jays. It doesn't matter.

[Talking moose]

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[Talking moose]

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[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by YYC338

Your comparison to the 80's Oilers is poorly chosen.

Firstly, Gretzky was traded in 1988 and the Oiler's won a cup in 1990 (without the generational player).

Gretzky had a fabulous supporting cast of future hall of fame'rs around him. Where are this versions Messier's, Coffey's, Kuri's, Fuhr's, Anderson's, etc?

How many of the current Oiler's outside of McJesus are future HOF'ers? The number is either 0 or 1 (don't pick one, you'd be wrong). The current supporting cast isn't fit to carry the hockey bags of those 80's Oilers.

When the Great One was traded to teams with inferior supporting casts (like today's oiler's) how many cups did he win? The number is either 0 or 1 (again, don't pick 1)

Also Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, etc. weren't traded to make the Oiler's better back then. Pocklington needed money so Gretzky was gone, he wouldn't pay Messier so he was gone. Same with Coffey. They weren't hockey trades.

Edmonton could make a hockey trade to improve their team, but not with the current gang of old boys there in the front office now.

Do you really think there's enough in the hopper or room in the salary cap in the next 3 or 4 years to provide McDavid with even half the supporting cast he needs?

Meanwhile McDavid is one serious knee injury away (God forbid) from losing his wheel's which is his greatest asset. Skill at speed.

Even if we completely ignore all the other names on my trade list like you just conveniently did, the fact of the matter is pretty simple. The Edmonton Oilers were NOT a better hockey team after any or all of those guys left town, and you can add Chris Pronger to the list as well.

The cap is and will continue to go up. I absolutely believe that it can be done, PIT and CHI both did it while paying their top two guys an equal or very close percentage of their total cap space. PIT is still rolling years and years into those deals, CHI hit the wall, but that's because Toews, Keith, and Seabrook are all nearing the end of the line, but they had an amazing run.

There's going to be several teams in the same boat in short order, so I guess we're going to find out pretty quick what the new NHL looks like, but 9-10 MM/per is going to become pretty common is my guess.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Would Calgary give Rittich 4.5 million per year right now?

[millartech]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Would Calgary give Rittich 4.5 million per year right now?

Even though Rittich is 4 years younger, has shown more consistency, and Calgary's salary cap isnt as screwed up as Edmonton's, no I wouldn't. Not mid season, he needs to prove he can do it over the course of the season.

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[sgill808]

I was listening to Sportsnet Radio and I think Elliott Freedman was on (I cant remember who it was exactly), but he said the Oilers have the worst winning percentage out of every major sports team, not just the NHL, in North America since Katz bought the team.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by millartech

Even though Rittich is 4 years younger, has shown more consistency, and Calgary's salary cap isnt as screwed up as Edmonton's, no I wouldn't. Not mid season, he needs to prove he can do it over the course of the season.

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So Calgary is going to make the playoffs, and should win a round or two.... maybe. With the need around the league for goal tending and the desire to have 2 NHL ready goaltenders, do the Flames really want Rittich going to free agency. On Cap friendly he is only under contract until the end of this year. If you ask me now, the guy seems like he is having so much that he would play for free but it is still a gamble when other teams will have the opportunity to make offers.