Calgary Herald - Guns taken by RCMP from High River Homes

[hal53]

Originally Posted by MtnGiant

ya I saw that after I replied....thats why mine was edited

sorry, lol, getting blinded by a tin foil reflection...LOL

[just_dave]

Originally Posted by hal53

again...read the post from the military guy that was actually there, instead of like all of us, drawing conclusions from a computer

Wouldn't that too be drawing a conclusion from a computer?

[elkhunter11]

As they did have to essentially break in to get to the guns (or in most cases use a locksmith),

Just who determined that it was necessary to break into houses that were locked , and in an area being guarded by the police, and the military?

My firearms are always legally stored, but if after being evacuated from my home for a week, the last thing that I should have to deal with, is damage to my home caused by police breaking in.

[CheeseBurger]

Certain rights are revoked when a state of emergency is declared. Not certain which ones but that is the purpose behind declaring a state of emergency. They can get around certain laws. I'm not saying this in a bad way, it is a very useful tool, but it can easily be misused as well.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Elko

Almost everything said so far in this thread is false, if you do not know what you are talking about, please don't say anything.

But of course most high count posters on here would have nothing to say then.

So what are the police supposed to do when they find firearms in the highest point of the house, not secured, leave them to be stolen, they are being held only, unless of course they are illegal to start with.

And unless you know what is actually happening in high river, blaming any level of gov't for this is crap.

According to some of you, the RCMP must have created this flood just so they could seize guns and collect overtime.

But don't forget, all those police that have left there families and lives to be there to help others, for as long as it takes.

Originally Posted by greylynx

Well you tell us what is happening in High River.

I find your comment that the RCMP created this problem an insult to every
Albertan's intelligence.

You must be the RCMP.

The RCMP are removing firearms from house dwellings.

Do us a favour and reply what part of the Criminal Code you operatives of the state are using.

Thank you

It's a state of emergency. What makes you think that the criminal code or any other democratic institutions apply?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by just_dave

Wouldn't that too be drawing a conclusion from a computer?

good point....thanks

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

It's a state of emergency. What makes you think that the criminal code or any other democratic institutions apply?

Beeguy:

After the FLQ crisis the war measures act was removed with the intention of such atrocities never happening again in Canada.

Hello war measures act 2013 in High River Alberta.

Beeguy: Do you think such a barbaric act would have happened in Ontario or Quebec?

[Stop Staring at my Rack]

Originally Posted by CheeseBurger

This is a quote from a CGN member that was there:

Quote Originally Posted by celtic1123 View Post
Hey guys, I was one of the soldiers that was there helping out the RCMP. I can tell you from the groups I worked with that only guns that were unlocked and not in a safe were taken. If guns were locked up and hidden away (aka someone couldn't grab and go) they were left in the residence. We only took firearms that were unlocked and in the open, and were even ordered not to actively look for guns. The ones we came across were handled with care (I tried to assure that as best I could, although the RCMP was doing quite a good job of it already) and marked with the address from where they were taken. So the proof of ownership would only have to be proof of residence and a PAL/RPAL. As for charges the Mounties I talked to (and made sure to ask this question), said that filing charges most likely would not occur. As they did have to essentially break in to get to the guns (or in most cases use a locksmith), however there were a few people that had loaded handguns stashed in their houses. . . those I think are more of a toss up on if there will be charges. But from the rank and file Mounties most of them (there at least) didn't like the idea of charging anyone.

As for the people wanting to get in to their residences. . . I can see where they are coming from. But at the same time I can tell you that there was significant damage to a lot of these homes. Several first responders actually fell through staircases and some structural collapse in areas. If people are let in to their homes and end up having the structure collapse on them there will be a huge uproar on why people were allowed back into unsafe structures.

EDIT- by stashed handguns I mean that they were sitting in the open, clearly visible. Not that they were hidden in a drawer, or anything like that.

So who knows this person?
Not to be the devils advocate but could have been posted by anyone..... good way to try and diffuse the situation...

[Stop Staring at my Rack]

Originally Posted by schmedlap

I don't see anyone suggesting that, in general, "cops are evil". For myself, quite the reverse. What you would see, if you actually read the thread, is a lot of people who wonder what the possible motivation for such a selective seizure of private property, from those helpless to defend themselves against it, is. There are no tinfoil hats involved. There are a lot of people who are fed up with this kind of hypocrisy (?). In fact, what you see is a lot of sad cynicism about the priorities of the authorities in such a sad situation. It is disgraceful, and no level of "reverence" for those involved excuses it.

X2

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

You think that they have an impenetrable net around the city?
What's easier, remove the tools that could be used to kill or put an armed guard in every house?
I never said I agree with them breaking in, I do not but I am oit there and do not know the entire circumstances, just like every other person screaming foul in this forum, my point was more that the RCMP are not shopping, they are securing and taking precautions.

Of course not. Just as I think a state of emergency does not negate or revoke the rights of citizens.

Unreasonable search and seizure. If they went to EACH HOUSE and searched, that is one thing.....

But if the RCMP used CPIC to target the residences of firearms owners, that is quite another issue no?

[Scotty P.]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Here is the sticker - after this happening who would ever obey the police when told to evacuate their homes? And just who is supposed to protect our property from the police?

I was just thinking the same thing. I dont know if I would be leaving mine behind after this story. But I guess theres no way of taking restricted firearms so I can completely see people not wanting to leave.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Beeguy:

After the FLQ crisis the war measures act was removed with the intention of such atrocities never happening again in Canada.

Hello war measures act 2013 in High River Alberta.

Beeguy: Do you think such a barbaric act would have happened in Ontario or Quebec?

Are you serious?

Hell yeah I think it could happen in upper and lower Canada.

The Voyageurs and minute men would be ****ed too!

[CheeseBurger]

Originally Posted by Stop Staring at my Rack

So who knows this person?
Not to be the devils advocate but could have been posted by anyone..... good way to try and diffuse the situation...

I'm just sharing the information. Take it for what it is.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Originally Posted by greylynx

That will be the story they use. All in the name of public safety.

Who cares about entering a private residence with no warrant. Public safety.

And the stupid will continue to believe this.

The RCMP and ARMY kicking down doors for public safety.

I guess that is ok, they will never come after me. I have nothing to hide. How Liberal.

[NewGuard84]

Originally Posted by hal53

again...read the post from the military guy that was actually there, instead of like all of us, drawing conclusions from a computer

Can you point me to what exactly in the soldier's post from CGN makes these actions legal and justifiable? I'm having trouble with this still. Oh right state of emergency... Better use that blanket for free reign.

For your reference, this is what Section 8 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms says:

“Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure.”

Further to earlier posts, the search MAY be justifiable in the name of ensuring flood victims are safe and not stranded in a degenerating property. Now, please help me follow your logic about how the seizure of the firearms was justified? I may be missing something. Keep in mind they apparently came across guns and were able to determine they were loaded guns somehow, all after apparently being formally instructed not to look for guns.

In my view, the sequence of events cannot occur without a questionable step somewhere along the way.

[MtnGiant]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

It's a state of emergency. What makes you think that the criminal code or any other democratic institutions apply?

You just proved the point of the "Right to Bear Arms" arguement and a pro CCW arguement without even knowing it

Thanks for putting your foot in your mouth once again.

[Stop Staring at my Rack]

Originally Posted by CheeseBurger

I'm just sharing the information. Take it for what it is.

No worries, just stating the obvious....
Thanks for posting, we need to find the other side of the story, just looking for credibility...

[hal53]

Originally Posted by NewGuard84

Can you point me to what exactly in the soldier's post from CGN makes these actions legal and justifiable? I'm having trouble with this still.

For your reference, this is what Section 8 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms says:

“Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure.”

Further to earlier posts, the search MAY be justifiable in the name of ensuring flood victims are safe and not stranded in a degenerating property. Now, please help me follow your logic about how the seizure of the firearms was justified? I may be missing something. Keep in mind they apparently came across guns and were able to determine they were loaded guns somehow, all after apparently being formally instructed not to look for guns.

In my view, the sequence of events cannot occur without a questionable step somewhere along the way.

it's a state of emergency???...the may have been instructed "not too look for guns", but when some idiot leaves one on the coffee table , loaded, u think they should check it out??... the laws may not always be right, but the sense I get here from some posters about their "rights", is truly frightening....

[greylynx]

I am out of here.

sorry for expressing my views.

[MtnGiant]

Originally Posted by greylynx

I am out of here.

sorry for expressing my views.

Baby please dont go

Baby please dont go down to New Orleans

Baby please dont go

[NewGuard84]

Originally Posted by hal53

it's a state of emergency???...the may have been instructed "not too look for guns", but when some idiot leaves one on the coffee table , loaded, u think they should check it out??... the laws may not always be right, but the sense I get here from some posters about their "rights", is truly frightening....

You may not have much experience in examining how authorities move from a public street to entering a private premises to seizing items or detaining people, but I do. There are serious constitutional issues at play here, whether you see them or not. It goes to the heart of what it means to be a Canadian. States of Emergency are problematic for this reason. All proper order goes out the window. Thanks for the discussion. Good points and I agree to disagree respectfully.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by hal53

it's a state of emergency???...the may have been instructed "not too look for guns", but when some idiot leaves one on the coffee table , loaded, u think they should check it out??... the laws may not always be right, but the sense I get here from some posters about their "rights", is truly frightening....

Something smells, if I have the presence of mind to go into the basement to go get my guns, I have the presence of mind to at least put them in a closet. I can see one or two people forgetting, but a wack of people do not bring their guns up out of the basement and then leave them laying around knowing there is a chance of evacuation. I just don't believe that.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Something smells, if I have the presence of mind to go into the basement to go get my guns, I have the presence of mind to at least put them in a closet. I can see one or two people forgetting, but a wack of people do not bring their guns up out of the basement and then leave them laying around knowing there is a chance of evacuation. I just don't believe that.

wonder how many guns they picked up?...or did the reporter hear one small statement and made a story out of it???
"what did u find in your search?"
" lots of water damage, couple guns in the open that we took for safe storage, next question?"

[Redfrog]

"And people wonder why some think not everyone in Canada should be allowed to carry handguns? Imagine the 50 residents all proudly showing off their cocked and locked S&W .45's at the standoff."

Not sure where that came from, but it does support your argument. Oh wait there it is "IMAGINE". I thought it was something you had read in a report.

Relax people. If you haven't done anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.

These people are from the government, they are here to help.

This blockade and demo is being handled exactly like all the rest of the ubrest has been handles in Canada.

Remember at Attapiskat when the cops kicked in the doors and confiscated dangerous stuff. Remember whne they pit down that spiked belt on parliament hill to stop people from smuggling food in to Teresa? Remeber how quickly the 'occupy' protests were wrapped up?

Remember how everyone ignored the public announcements that the RCMP were going from house to house taking firearms in High River.?

It's just business as usual. Here have a piece of cheese, I got it from my government.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by hal53

wonder how many guns they picked up?...or did the reporter hear one small statement and made a story out of it???
"what did u find in your search?"
" lots of water damage, couple guns in the open that we took for safe storage, next question?"

Good question, was a few places or lots of residence? I'm going off the opening statement in the article.

RCMP revealed Thursday that officers have seized a “substantial amount” of firearms from homes in the evacuated town of High River.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Hell+Re...#ixzz2XTaRI6Ja

[hal53]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Good question, was a few places or lots of residence? I'm going off the opening statement in the article.

RCMP revealed Thursday that officers have seized a “substantial amount” of firearms from homes in the evacuated town of High River.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Hell+Re...#ixzz2XTaRI6Ja

I read it thanks, but to a reporter trying to sell get their name on a story for that rag, a substantial amount, is maybe more than one????...just sayin'

[Kanonfodder]

I am dubious that the story from CGN as the PMO office states that no military personel entered homes in High River, so someone's lying

@davidakin: PMO source: No DND/CF people entered anyone's home in High River, AB.

[MtnGiant]

Originally Posted by NewGuard84

You may not have much experience in examining how authorities move from a public street to entering a private premises to seizing items or detaining people, but I do. There are serious constitutional issues at play here, whether you see them or not. It goes to the heart of what it means to be a Canadian. States of Emergency are problematic for this reason. All proper order goes out the window. Thanks for the discussion. Good points and I agree to disagree respectfully.

Sounds like you have some law training????

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

I am dubious that the story from CGN as the PMO office states that no military personel entered homes in High River, so someone's lying

@davidakin: PMO source: No DND/CF people entered anyone's home in High River, AB.

one post earlier stated the RCMP got the entry tools from the military, too much un answered questions and innuendo from one "reporters" story....too many reporters, not enough breaking news, anybody hear if the train fell in the river?

[Stop Staring at my Rack]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

I am dubious that the story from CGN as the PMO office states that no military personel entered homes in High River, so someone's lying

@davidakin: PMO source: No DND/CF people entered anyone's home in High River, AB.

I saw that too... good eye for detail!