Calgary Herald - Guns taken by RCMP from High River Homes

[Silverado04]

Rights aren't rights if they can just be taken away by the very institution that guarantees them.

Sounds a lot more like privileges to me.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by Silverado04

Rights aren't rights if they can just be taken away by the very institution that guarantees them.

Sounds a lot more like privileges to me.

You blind? Did u not read my post?

[Silverado04]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

You blind? Did u not read my post?

Did I quote you and respond to you? Or I did I make a general statement?

Go get another coffee and settle down.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

CSSA sent out a mass email regarding this yesterday.

Hello, my name is xxxxxxx, membership NFA-00xxxxxx

As you may know, the town of High River has suffered catastrophic flooding recently, requiring complete mandatory evacuation of the town. In the recent days, the RCMP which are blocking access either in or out of town have decided to go door to door within evacuated homes and complete a search for firearms that were left behind. The evacuation order was swift and a lot of people had no time to bring a change of clothes, wallet and in some cases medications. Needless to say, firearms were not retrieved. I spoke with an RCMP officer who informed me of this. When asked how they would ensure that firearms were returned to their legal and rightful owners, he informed me that they could use the LGR data. I was stumped by this information. People in the area, and not just firearm owners are up in arms in this regard. This is seen as theft and perhaps even looting on the RCMP's part. Hopefully, this is nothing more than simply ensuring that these firearms do not fall into the hands of "undesirable". But, we do have an issue accepting this as a simple precautionary measure as they town is under lock down anyways. Seemingly, in the minds of most folks whose homes have been compromised and broken into, this seems rather disturbing. Furthermore, the statement made to me personally regarding the LGR data is also disturbing. Perhaps this officer was saying more that he should have or perhaps he was blowing hot air.

In any event, I believe that immediate interaction from the NFA to ensure the rights of not only it's membership, but that of all legal and lawful gun owner is warranted. I patiently await a reply.

Regards,

xxxxxxxx

[Scotty P.]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

It's a state of emergency. What makes you think that the criminal code or any other democratic institutions apply?

Good point! I guess if this is true the residents should have loaded everyone of their firearms and taken them with them during the evacuation. Heck they could hand out extra rifles to their neighbors even if they didn't have a valid firearms license cause after all the criminal code or any other democratic institutions don't apply in this situation, right?

[elkhunter11]

News flash.... PM Harper orders rcmp (non-caps deliberate) to stop taking firearms from High River homes.

What are the chances of them obeying???0


Heard on cbc (" ") radio news this am.

The solution is simple, declare martial law, and order the military to enforce the governments directive, using whatever force is necessary. Given that there is already a state of emergency in effect, and the military is already present, it would be easy enough to do. I wonder how much the RCMP would enjoy being the ones having the law forced on them for a change?

[6.5swedeforelk]

Catching up on reading this thread, I got a cold chill!!

I've figured out the scheme behind this illogical act...

Visualize this future press release:

rcmp ( " ") release to press sources...

IN TIMES OF DIRE NATIONAL EMERGENCY SUCH AS THE HIGH RIVER FLOOD, WE DEEM IT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC AND GUN OWNERS TO COLLECT & SAFELY STORE ALL FIREARMS.

HOWEVER, SINCE THE LONG GUN REGISTRY HAS BEEN DISMANTLED AGAINST OUR SPECIFIC WISHES, WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DISTRIBUTE THESE FIREARMS BACK TO THEIR OWNERS.

What do you think of that, or am I being too critical of a fine, law abiding upstanding institution?


Sorry, Silverado... this giant step toward a police state has me on edge.

[gitrdun]

From what I understand elk, the military has been relieved of duties and pulled out. I certainly haven't seen any of the armoured vehicles around.

[Old Hunter]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

CSSA sent out a mass email regarding this yesterday.

Read it and sent a note back. Then I read here. Sad. Now I read PM tells police to cease. That's good but still don't have a warm fuzzy feeling when reading LGR data may still be available and being relied upon for ownership info. I know my own data would be severely off base now, having bought, sold and traded many since the LGR was scrapped.

This is my note from yesterday with a reply from Tony Bernardo today.



I have forwarded your list of questions to the Prime Minister's office. We'll see if we get answers.



Tony Bernardo

__________________________________

CILA / ICAL
Defending Canada's Heritage
P. 905-571-2150 F. 905-436-7721

----- Forwarded Message -----

To: info@cdnshootingsports.org
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 6:41:03 PM
Subject: Re: [CSSA-CILA E-News] It can't happen here? Police outrage in Alberta by out-of-control RCMP.




What further info is available?




What items, besides firearms, were seized (it is a seizure)




Under what authority were these items seized from homes?




Was there a warrant issued by a court of competent jurisdiction for search and seizure of anything?




Was the concern possibly looters?




If so, who was in the restricted flood zone besides police and emergency workers and what other valuable property was removed for safe keeping?




Who issued the order for police to remove property of any description?




How does one prove ownership in the event the flood waters destroyed any records held?




What if there are no records, as it is not an offense to purchase a firearm with the correct licence and retain no record?




I am just a bit disturbed by this action. Are the CSSA/CILA lawyers already on this?




Is a letter of protest being issued to the Prime Minister by our organization?




Just things that came to mind.

[Silverado04]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

From what I understand elk, the military has been relieved of duties and pulled out. I certainly haven't seen any of the armoured vehicles around.

Yeah, highway through Airdrie has been littered the past couple days with army heading north.

[dyaz1628]

i guess its a double edged sword. Mayby the cops and military should leave and let the people fend for themselves. But remember no whining after they are gone that they are helpless

[elkhunter11]

From what I understand elk, the military has been relieved of duties and pulled out. I certainly haven't seen any of the armoured vehicles around.

Too bad, I would rather see the military being present if the RCMP chooses to ignore our government , just as they did when the CFOs openly defied the government. The government should have made an example of the CFOs then, to ensure compliance in the future.

i guess its a double edged sword. Mayby the cops and military should leave and let the people fend for themselves. But remember no whining after they are gone that they are helpless

What harm can firearms do, if they are in locked homes, with no people present, and the RCMP and police are ensuring that nobody can return to those homes?

[Silverado04]

Originally Posted by dyaz1628

i guess its a double edged sword. Mayby the cops and military should leave and let the people fend for themselves. But remember no whining after they are gone that they are helpless

What exactly are the cops doing right now beside keeping people from their homes?

[BobMarliesDonkey]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Might work....lol

In this case... weapons would have been secured.... I hope.
If not... thats another can of worms.
In a locked house... in a locked container.
The law says nothing about the need to keep em dry or for someone to be home.

IOW firearms were taken although the law had been satisfied by the owners to the extent that it is any of their darn business.

It would be different if the gun locker had burst and the darn things were strewn about in the open.
.

Where does the law say you're long gun has to be in a locked container? If its unloaded, trigger locked and kept by your front door it would be legally stored as long as your ammunition is locked.

BMD

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by dyaz1628

i guess its a double edged sword. Mayby the cops and military should leave and let the people fend for themselves. But remember no whining after they are gone that they are helpless

Clearly, no one has asked them to leave. But would it be too much to ask that one's privacy and home not be raped and pillaged?

[elkhunter11]

Where does the law say you're long gun has to be in a locked container? If its unloaded, trigger locked and kept by your front door it would be legally stored as long as your ammunition is locked.

Ammunition does not have to be locked up, if it is stored separately.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by Silverado04

Yeah, highway through Airdrie has been littered the past couple days with army heading north.

That strategy sure makes sense... remove the only non-volunteers not pulling big-bucks overtime.

[Twobucks]

RCMP have been the one agency to fail in the response to the floods - Calgary Police (and others) have been incredible.

I saw a post asking "where are the media" - the media are the ones who first brought this disgrace to our attention. The media are also banned from access to the area - unlike in Calgary, Bragg Creek, Morley, Sik Sika, Medicine Hat. . .

We blow it off when the hippies complain about RCMP tactics at protests, we blow it off when media complain about access to scenes and information -- and now we have to deal with it when RCMP become the looters.

Our province is full of heros right now, people coming together to help each other. Everyone is pulling in the same direction - except for the paramilitary RCMP. Shame on them.

We won't forget you High River. Help will come soon.

[stuckincity]

I've been wondering about a couple of things.

Are "they" reading this thread and seeing how upset people are about their antics?

Will the computers of those against it be constantly monitored from now on so they can look for "troublemakers" to harass?

These thoughts crossed my mind more than once.

[pikergolf]

more.........
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews...28-021149.html

[TBD]

Originally Posted by BobMarliesDonkey

Where does the law say you're long gun has to be in a locked container? If its unloaded, trigger locked and kept by your front door it would be legally stored as long as your ammunition is locked.

BMD

If no bolt then trigger locked - you're correct gun can be sitting on your kitchen table (unless it's a restricted) ....

TBD

PS ... I think this is bureaucrats/politicians/"authorities" making a big deal out of nothing - media will be anxious to interview gun owners - they'll pick the biggest RED NECK for the 6 o'clock hour and televise his/her OVER REACTIONS across the country.

Be careful, let's see first if guns are returned in the condition they were taken !

.... ya gotta know their looking for an opportunity to defame our community

.... AND there's been a lot of complaints in the past several years with the RCMP detachment in HIGH RIVER

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by stuckincity

I've been wondering about a couple of things.

Are "they" reading this thread and seeing how upset people are about their antics?

Will the computers of those against it be constantly monitored from now on so they can look for "troublemakers" to harass?

These thoughts crossed my mind more than once.

Count on it!! CPIC will be spewing data out on all negative posters.

The color of your eyes, every gun you own, if you were dumb enough to register. Oh, I forgot! ALL data has been destroyed. heh heh
One "select all" one "cut & paste" an unlimited sized data storage and yeh the original records in the original storage area has been deleted.

[toomanyhobbies]

Quit spewing crap. There is no requirement to remove the bolt, a non-restricted only needs a trigger lock. If it is stored in a securely locked room, it doesn't even need the lock on the firearm.

Originally Posted by TBD

If no bolt then trigger locked - you're correct gun can be sitting on your kitchen table ....

TBD

PS ... I think this is beaureaucrats/politcians/"authorities" making a big deal out of nothing - media will be anxious to interview gun owners - they'll pick the biggest RED NECK for the 6 o'clock hour and televise his/her OVER REACTIONS across the country.

Be careful !

[TBD]

Originally Posted by stuckincity
I've been wondering about a couple of things.

Are "they" reading this thread and seeing how upset people are about their antics?

Will the computers of those against it be constantly monitored from now on so they can look for "troublemakers" to harass?

These thoughts crossed my mind more than once.

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

Count on it!! CPIC will be spewing data out on all negative posters.

The color of your eyes, every gun you own, if you were dumb enough to register. Oh, I forgot! ALL data has been destroyed. heh heh
One "select all" one "cut & paste" an unlimited sized data storage and yeh the original records in the original storage area has been deleted.

For the real baddy posters - they'll be requesting your IP - address from SHAW.

TBD

[Dog hunter]

Not much we outsiders can do other than vent,people of high river should be going to every media outlet they can , if they haven't already,this crap has happened before and it never gets to the public.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by toomanyhobbies

Quit spewing crap. There is no requirement to remove the bolt, a non-restricted only needs a trigger lock. If it is stored in a securely locked room, it doesn't even need the lock on the firearm.

... and NO a securely locked room would have to meet a "gun rooms" specs otherwise all guns in that room need to be inoperable - either trigger locked or bolt / firing pin removed

In lieu of a trigger lock - you can remove the bolt !

TBD

... do you know what the word lieu means - if not pls look it up in a dictionary before driveling out your mouth - RE .

... maybe it would be WISE to do some market research in HIGH RIVER after this Mess is over - I'm interested in a comparison b/w the percentage of houses breached by the RCMP where residents had a PAL vs the homes where residents DID not.

[Dr. Phil A]

Been rolling this over in my head overnight.

It was the mayor of Highriver that declared the state of emergency therefore it was a municipal call, not a provincial or federal call. So is there a bylaw in each municipality to deal with state of emergency? What guidlines are used? Do they refer to provinical or federal act? there is more to this than meets the eye for sure.

Guns have two enemies: Rust and politicians.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by BobMarliesDonkey

Where does the law say you're long gun has to be in a locked container? If its unloaded, trigger locked and kept by your front door it would be legally stored as long as your ammunition is locked.

BMD

See how this has moved from a disaster to a totally inane situation.
From scrambling for your life counting your kids & go, to " I just got in from gopher shooting, do I put the gun in the basement locker. Wait, don't go with the kids yet. Have to separate ammo from gun.

DAMN THEM!!!

Do you know how much time my relatives had to collect family, catch the cat & grab something after the dike gave way???
15 bloody minutes, and they drove out with water covering the car grill.

[northerntrapper]

I was wondering why the 'authorities' haven't rode out onto the reserves and tried taking their guns? I'm guessing it wouldn't be easy pickings out there.

[silverdoctor]

Why do these threads always end up with gun owners scrapping it out amongst each other??

According to this plan, the RCMP are/were allowed to enter homes without warrant, but this is still underhanded. What I would like to know is if gun owners homes were specifically targetted.





According to the emergency managemet act of alberta - straight off the queens printer:

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/E06P8.pdf


Powers of Minister in emergency
19
(1)
On the making of the declaration and for the duration of the state of emergency, the Minister may do all acts and take all necessary proceedings including the following:
(a) put into operation an emergency plan or program
(b) authorize or require a local authority to put into effect an emergency plan or program for the municipality;
(c) acquire or utilize any real or personal property considered necessary to prevent, combat or alleviate the effects of an emergency or disaster;
(d) authorize or require any qualified person to render aid of a type the person is qualified to provide;
(e) control or prohibit travel to or from any area of Alberta;
(f) provide for the restoration of essential facilities and the distribution of essential supplies and provide, maintain and co-ordinate emergency medical, welfare and other essential services in any part of Alberta;
(g) cause the evacuation of persons and the removal of livestock and personal property from any area of Alberta that is or may be affected by a disaster and make arrangements for the adequate care and protection of those persons or livestock and of the personal property;
(h) authorize the entry into any building or on any land, without warrant, by any person in the course of implementing an emergency plan or program;
(i) cause the demolition or removal of any trees, structures or crops if the demolition or removal is necessary or appropriate in order to reach the scene of a disaster, or to attempt to forestall its occurrence or to combat its progress;
(j) procure or fix prices for food, clothing, fuel, equipment, medical supplies, or other essential supplies and the use of any property, services, resources or equipment within any part of Alberta for the duration of the state of emergency;
(k) authorize the conscription of persons needed to meet an emergency.