Way to go Uruguay!! Marijuana completely legal.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by jryley

Im fairly confident most casual marijuana smokers will easily put your sheltered wanna be outdoorsman / sub par salaried lifestyle to shame pal.

that is quite easily the stupidest thing I have ever read on the Internet.

Not only do you not have a clue at all who he is, but you throw money into the mix with your nonsense?

How many million did you make last year?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jryley

lol I think its clear potty that most guys can see youre a sad sad saaad human being. grow yourself a brain.

Honestly, I feel horrible for any kids you may be raising as most would agree its pretty tough to put forth a valid opinion on something they are so soon to pass an incorrect judgement on, without any knowledge whatsoever of it, and unfortunately your kids are going to take on the same narrow minded fascist ideals you seem to spew.

Do yourself a favour and actually research a topic before you start calssifying cancer patients, professionals, pro athletes, poilitiacians etc etc etc as life failures. Im fairly confident most casual marijuana smokers will easily put your sheltered wanna be outdoorsman / sub par salaried lifestyle to shame pal.

Bwahahaha. .I make more in a month, than you do in a year. Lol, freaking hilarious...lol

I use you as entertainment, and get paid for it..lol

I really don't care what you think. Funny part is your a retard and you didn't even need drugs, always some intelligent post ffom you...lol

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Bwahahaha. .I make in a more in a month, than you do in a year. Lol, freaking hilarious...lol
My taxes probably pay for your welfare. ..

I use you as entertainment, and get paid for it..lol

I really don't care what you think. Funny part is your a retard and you didn't even need drugs...

can I borrow $5,000?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

can I borrow $5,000?

Is it for drugs?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

.I make more in a month, than you do in a year.

And that is relevant how???? C'mon Potty.....

Seriously, who cares whether one thing is more or less harmful than another thing? I cannot in good concience tell another adult that he cannot use something that harms no one else because I think it's bad for him, and that he will be charged and fined or imprisoned if he uses it. If one thinks otherwise I guess run for Mayor of New York and ban large soda drinks.

[Deo101]

I suppose your d$ck is bigger too. Your use of the word retard is offensive. Do you not know any mentally ill people. Are there no "retards" in your family. Pot smokers or otherwise. You're clearly a hypocrite who has lost any respect from every poster on this thread aside from Ken. And it isn't because of your stand on the legalization of pot. It's the insensitive a hole coming through. I have alot more assumptions about the kind of guy you are but I'll keep them to myself.

[Nikanit]

Originally Posted by MtnGiant

HOLY CARP!!!!!
WTFrigg are you talking about man!!!!
Smoke a fatty and chill brah....then take a REALITY chill pill.
Your analogy is so far off the charts.....dont sign any legal documents in your state of mind please.

Ya I know ur jokn

[avb3]

Having not read every post here, I thought this article might be of interest.



http://www.businessinsider.com/sanja...on-weed-2013-8

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Is it for drugs?

nope, I'd like $50,000 but I figure a high roller like you may be able to peel 5G's out of you pocket change and not even remember I owe you!!!

[Nikanit]

Originally Posted by Calgary Dave

That's not the question I asked. Read again......
Would you allow your 3 year old to be around Adults drinking heavily.......Would you bring your 3 year old into a bar on a Friday night? Everything completely legal...the only "drug" consumed is alcohol....obviously it's a perfectly safe vice....so lets bring your children into the mix....

As for responsible "toking"..... A successful, intelligent businessman and family man, might use marijuana at night, after the kids are in bed, while sitting on the patio drinking wine. Or he might had a smoke while out camping. Or he might use it while enjoying a movie in his house with his wife. An ounce of weed might last him a couple of months, used only in these circumstances. See, you've probably never come across someone like this...or more accurately you HAVE, but had NO idea they were in fact pot smokers.

That sounds like myself. I'm a good person too and always help out my fellow man. I look after my elderly parents with love, and bought a place to be near them. I have a very loving family and many friends. I am educated, have a great marriage, and all my stuff is paid for. I have no criminal record either. I'm not afraid of people judging me because sometimes people just see the stereotypes of dope smokers. I admit there are definitely some people out there that are "chronic", I know a few...but in my experience of living in Vancouver for 25 years,( I'm a native Albertan) I got rid of my previous attitude towards these "dope smoking hippies", and realized how wrong I was. Anyone want's to attack me here, I will not reply. I won't argue with anybody about how they don't like me just because I'm a smoker.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Deo101

I suppose your d$ck is bigger too. Your use of the word retard is offensive. Do you not know any mentally ill people. Are there no "retards" in your family. Pot smokers or otherwise. You're clearly a hypocrite who has lost any respect from every poster on this thread aside from Ken. And it isn't because of your stand on the legalization of pot. It's the insensitive a hole coming through. I have alot more assumptions about the kind of guy you are but I'll keep them to myself.

Do you honestly think anyone will care about this thread next week or after it is closed?

Interesting.

I have met the man, once. We had a long chat with other forum members in Calgary. He is a nice fellow. I have seen his threads. I have seen how he interacts with others.

He is taking a stand against illegal narcotics, and he is faulted for that?

I also disagree with the 'mentally handicapped slang' but I am not going to lose sleep over it. I may have used it once or twice myself, please forgive me for not being PC 24/7/365/45.8

It is an anonymous forum with people either posting for enjoyment or education.

Not a thing said in here will affect Canada ever, and unless 2 people fighting online meet in a dark alley and someone suffers a broken nose, not a thing said will affect anyone personally unless you let it.

No wonder the Mods call themselves babysitters.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

And that is relevant how???? C'mon Potty.....

Seriously, who cares whether one thing is more or less harmful than another thing? I cannot in good concience tell another adult that he cannot use something that harms no one else because I think it's bad for him, and that he will be charged and fined or imprisoned if he uses it. If one thinks otherwise I guess run for Mayor of New York and ban large soda drinks.

I merely responded to what he said about my salary. And OKO, I don't care what people do, all I said is how I feel about it. If people want to destroy their bodies, have at her. Just don't bring it around me, my family or my property.Again, it's just MY opinion.No one has to like it or agree with me.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Bwahahaha. .I make more in a month, than you do in a year. Lol, freaking hilarious...lol

I use you as entertainment, and get paid for it..lol

I really don't care what you think. Funny part is your a retard and you didn't even need drugs, always some intelligent post ffom you...lol

I rather doubt that.

Most high paying jobs require critical thinking and an ability to spell.
Neither of which seem to be your strong suit.

I also do not believe that you don't care what others think.
First of all that is a pretty basic and normal human characteristic to care what others think...and if you really didn't care it would be a sign of a serious psychosis.
Second...you keep responding to gthe posts.
Third... you bothered to respond at all.. to a thread about something that a banana republic a couple thousand miles away legislated.

Not that it matters.

Otherwise all of the potheads I actually know have good upper middle class jobs and incomes, own their own homes etc... they are all doing much better than any drunk I know. A couple own their own businesses and one is a Cardiologist.
It’s pretty easy to make off the cuff assumptions and assign labels to people and things having no actually knowledge of them...but it is incredible dishonest and shallow to do that.

I don't know about everyone else but I'd rather put up with a few retards now and again than have to deal with narrow minded, dishonest liars.

Present company excepted of course.

Not that you care…

[pottymouth]

This thread is like the druggies in High school. I walk by and state my opinion, when a whole bunch of them are getting high behind the school, trying to get me to join and accept them. I didn't break then, I wont break now. Smoke your dope in your mom's basement, just keep it away from me. I'm entitled to live my life with my opinions!! And I will !

And, to all the guys who attack Ken's character...Grow up! The man has done more for society and especially this site, he deserves a lot more respect. His time, generosity and contributions are more than most of AO combined. It speaks volumes to what kind of man and family he is and has!

Now I'm done with this thread, write whatever you want, my attitude and opinion won't change, and actually has only been reinforced by certain peoples posts!

Cheers!

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

This thread is like the druggies in High school. I walk by and state my opinion, when a whole bunch of them are getting high behind the school, trying to get me to join and accept them. I didn't break then, I wont break now. Smoke your dope in your mom's basement, just keep it away from me. I'm entitled to live my life with my opinions!!

And, to all the guys who attack Ken's character...Grow up! The man has done more for society and especially this site, he deserves a lot more respect. His time, generosity and contributions are more than most of AO combined. It speaks volumes to what kind of man and family he is and has!

Now I'm done with this thread, write whatever you want, my attitude and opinion won't change, and actually has only been reinforced by certain peoples posts!

Cheers!

what about my $5,000???

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

He is taking a stand against illegal narcotics, and he is faulted for that?

No, he is being faulted for making false accusations, false claims, and calling people names and lumping everyone into a stereotype based on ignorance.
No different than a member referring to another as a "dumb Ni**er" merely because of his race.

My brother in-law is a fireman. He takes a stand against marijuana. Doesn't like it's use, will probably never use it. But he has no problems with someone that chooses to use it. He asks intelligent questions and certainly wouldn't refer to a cannabis smoker as a "retard" just because that person chooses to smoke it.

You notice none of the pot smokers here refer to non-smokers as retards just because they DON'T smoke.

I hope the mods stay completely out of this thread as it will die out on its own course. Nothing will change and us partakers have no interest in forcing our choices on anyone else. You want to be a tea-totaler? Good for you. I applaud that. I'll even associate with you, just as I'll associate with a cigarette smoker even though I don't agree with it one bit, and wouldn t want any of my family using it (and not one of them do,btw. Touch wood)

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

If people want to destroy their bodies, have at her. Just don't bring it around me, my family or my property.

That's my opinion too.

[billie]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

....... just keep it away from me.

You may be quite surprised how many people around you that repect exactly that point, and do not let you know what they do in privacy. A "responsible" person would never infringe on another's comfort, or they would not be "responsible".

I have known many people that smoke over the years, and none that were "responsible" ever even so much as mentioned anything around my kids, or indulged at inappropriate times.

Same for everyone else who thinks their world is "retard" free .

[missingtwo]

I find it very ignorant, rude and offensive that someone would use the word "retard" so freely. It says a lot about the poster.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

This thread is like the druggies in High school. I walk by and state my opinion, when a whole bunch of them are getting high behind the school, trying to get me to join and accept them. I didn't break then, I wont break now. Smoke your dope in your mom's basement, just keep it away from me. I'm entitled to live my life with my opinions!! And I will !

And, to all the guys who attack Ken's character...Grow up! The man has done more for society and especially this site, he deserves a lot more respect. His time, generosity and contributions are more than most of AO combined. It speaks volumes to what kind of man and family he is and has!

Now I'm done with this thread, write whatever you want, my attitude and opinion won't change, and actually has only been reinforced by certain peoples posts!

Cheers!

Thats rich!
First off you started the name calling.
Everything after that was just people getting sucked in by you.

Also... please don't try to make it sound like the potheads at school that offered you an experience were strong arming you.
They made you an offered and you refused.
It was no big deal.
At worst they perhaps called you a nerd or something if you were rude about it.
There was no breaking or arm twisting or titanic struggle where you were pitted against the evil pusher.
You simply resisted peer pressure and temptation the same way that millions of others did and do every day.

And finally... I sort of doubt your intensity would be welcomed among most pot smokers so don't flatter yourself.
Nobody is likely to invite you to their pot party the same way nobody would likely invite me...and for the same reason.
I stopped smoking it many many years ago.

All people here invited you to do was open to open your mind a bit and allow that people should be permitted to choose for themselves like you did... but not simply because it happens to be unlawful this week.
And... that pot users are not the drooling idiots that you seem to think they are.

Now... relax...theres no reason for grudges.
Have a couple legal beers...have even more if it makes you feel better.
Tomarrow is a whole new day

[Deo101]

If a person took ambient every night to sleep, or an antidepressant to over come their anxiety would you consider them a retard junky? This is the biggest double standard of you ask me. I've flown sky high on cough medicine but that's Ok. If your child has A. D. D are you ok with them drugging him/her into zombie mode. Let's face it, prescription medications are worse than weed. Most of them don't cure what they're prescribed for and cause more side effects than weed. Side effects (or affects? don't blast me haha) such as anal leakage, shortness of breath, death even. They advertise a drug for whatever ailment (a lot of. minor things) and actually say death is a side affect.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by billie

You may be quite surprised how many people around you that repect exactly that point, and do not let you know what they do in privacy. A "responsible" person would never infringe on another's comfort, or they would not be "responsible".

I have known many people that smoke over the years, and none that were "responsible" ever even so much as mentioned anything around my kids, or indulged at inappropriate times.

Same for everyone else who thinks their world is "retard" free .

Yes.

Friends and descent people do not burden others with their private issues or their vices or morality...especially where children are concerned.

[NEWB]

Originally Posted by Deo101

If a person took ambient every night to sleep, or an antidepressant to over come their anxiety would you consider them a retard junky? This is the biggest double standard of you ask me. I've flown sky high on cough medicine but that's Ok. If your child has A. D. D are you ok with them drugging him/her into zombie mode. Let's face it, prescription medications are worse than weed. Most of them don't cure what they're prescribed for and cause more side effects than weed. Side effects (or affects? don't blast me haha) such as anal leakage, shortness of breath, death even. They advertise a drug for whatever ailment (a lot of. minor things) and actually say death is a side affect.

Say it ain't so.... Oh wait..


Watch the Documentary Generation RX.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1355568/...?ref_=tt_ov_pl

It is very interesting...

"For decades, scores of doctors, government officials, journalists, and others have extolled the benefits of psychiatric medicines for children. GENERATION RX presents "the rest of the story" and unveils how this era of unprecedented change in Western culture really occurred - and what price has been paid by our society. International award-winning filmmaker Kevin P. Miller (Let Truth Be The Bias, The Promised Land) "delivers a jaw-dropping emotional ride," and "weaves a terrifying tale of criminal conspiracy, the mass abandonment of medical ethics, and the routine betrayal of an entire generation." By employing the expertise of internationally respected professionals from the fields of medicine, ethics, journalism, and academia, GENERATION RX investigates collusion between drug companies and their regulatory watchdogs at the FDA and focuses on the powerful stories of real families who followed the advice of their doctors - and faced devastating consequences for doing so. GENERATION RX is a film about families who confronted horror and found nowhere to turn for help - and how scores of children have been caught in the vortex of mind-bending drugs at the earliest stages of their growth and development. This powerful documentary also questions whether we have forced millions of children onto pharmaceutical drugs for commercial rather than scientific reasons. Ultimately, Generation RX may help parents decide whether the perceived benefits of these medications outweigh the serious risks to children."

[Nikanit]

Originally Posted by Deo101

If a person took ambient every night to sleep, or an antidepressant to over come their anxiety would you consider them a retard junky? This is the biggest double standard of you ask me. I've flown sky high on cough medicine but that's Ok. If your child has A. D. D are you ok with them drugging him/her into zombie mode. Let's face it, prescription medications are worse than weed. Most of them don't cure what they're prescribed for and cause more side effects than weed. Side effects (or affects? don't blast me haha) such as anal leakage, shortness of breath, death even. They advertise a drug for whatever ailment (a lot of. minor things) and actually say death is a side affect.

I agree. I don't medicate my son for A.D.D for just that reason, and he's a lot better for it. My baby brother died 3 years ago due to prescription drugs, and he was never a pot smoker. He was addicted to prescription pills and had a doctor who was more than willing to prescribe them. He died in his sleep from a narcotic (Liquid chloral hydrate)that this doctor prescribed for sleep, that should have never been given to him since it was usually used in hospitals. It stopped his heart...

[silverdoctor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JDbM...ature=youtu.be

[huntingd]

I don't have anything against pot smokers. Or whatever. If you want to do it great. Go ahead. That's your decision and I have no right to make it for you. That being said, while I don't agree with the retard comment, good for you potty and ken. You have certain ideals and stick to them. In the long run if people want to smoke pot they will do it whether it is legal or not.

[Nikanit]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JDbM...ature=youtu.be

Bahahahahaha!!!!!

Still not as good as when I was in junior high school, someone put a dead gopher in a hole in the wall at our school library. They had to close it down for a week while they hunted down the stank...

[Gust]

A Good read, I know it's tough for some on here, but, try. Just try to read the whole article.

by Terence Young



Terence Young, Member of Parliament for Oakville, Ontario, is the founder and Chair of Drug Safety Canada, a research and public advocacy organization based in Oakville. He has been active in issues related to prescription drug safety since March 2000, after losing his 15-year-old daughter Vanessa to the Johnson & Johnson manufactured drug Prepulsid, marketed by Janssen-Ortho Inc.

Prescription drugs taken as prescribed in hospitals are the fourth leading cause of death in the US and Canada, after cancer, heart disease and strokes. They cause about 10,000 deaths a year in Canada and about 106,000 deaths a year and over two million serious injuries in the US. As many as another 10,000 deaths a year in Canada are thought to occur outside hospitals due to the wrong drug, dosage errors and adverse reactions. One out of four admissions to internal medicine in Canadian hospitals is related to prescription drugs, of which 70% are preventable. Canadians now spend more on prescription drugs ($24 billion) than we do on doctors ($18 billion).

All drugs cause adverse effects. The only difference between a drug and a poison is dosage. Many drugs are marketed at dosages that are risky for many patients, referred to as a narrow therapeutic index. Sixteen major drugs have been pulled off the North American market since 1997 for injuring or killing patients including the drug that killed Vanessa Young – Prepulsid. Vioxx alone may have killed 55,000-65,000 patients before being withdrawn by the manufacturer, Merck, in 2004.

Over-the-counter drugs also cause many deaths. Every year, more than 15,000 patients die in North America from ordinary aspirin and Ibuprofen. Tylenol is the cause of thousands of hospital admissions and hundreds of deaths annually in North America.

Patient information leaflets are dangerous because they create a false sense of security, listing only minor adverse reactions. Drug labels are 30-50 pages of fine print, written by lawyers. Very few doctors ever read them. Those who do are often confused. Instead, they get their drug information from commissioned ‘detail reps’ who exaggerate the effectiveness of the drugs and play down the risks.

Most doctors get the rest of their drug information at Continuing Medical Education conferences or meetings held at expensive restaurants, resorts or on exotic trips sponsored by the drug companies. Big pharma spends upwards of $20,000 per doctor a year to create debts of gratitude. Doctors do not believe these gifts affect their prescribing habits; a drug rep’s dream.

Doctors in North America accept $ 4 billion per year in free samples of the newest and most expensive drugs and use them to create debts of gratitude in their patients. Since most illnesses get better on their own and the placebo effect works 30-70% of the time, patients believe the samples worked and begin buying them unnecessarily, sometimes for life.

Specialists are paid up to $20,000 per patient to enroll patients in drugs trials out of their offices. They have to mention that this is a trial, but are not required to tell the patients they are being paid to do so. A specialist can make up to $2 million on the side out of their office with 100 patients and never have to tell them they are being treated like a canary in a mine in exchange for money.

All drugs must be approved as safe and effective by Health Canada. To get approved, new drugs do not have to be proven more effective or even as effective as the existing bestseller for that condition. They only have to be proven slightly more effective than a sugar pill (placebo). Yet every new drug has new adverse effects. So there is often little chance the benefits will outweigh the risks. No one tells the patients.

Safe does not mean safe by any measurable standard. Safe is a moving target. Safe means that the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks for the population the drug is intended to treat and for its intended use. However, 70% of doctors, with the direct encouragement and illegal promotion of the ‘detail reps’ prescribe drugs off-label, for uses the drugs were never approved for – the cause of most drug deaths. Few patients understand the risks they are assuming when they agree to off-label use.

A drug considered safe today can be considered not safe tomorrow if the drug company comes up with a new drug to replace a bestseller. Safe is an arbitrary standard set by drug companies and Health Canada based on what they have to sell. That leads to hundreds of injuries and deaths. No one tells the patients. Drugs are proven safe after four phases of testing. Phase four is selling a new drug on the open market. Any patient taking a new drug is becoming part of a giant drug trial. Because no one ever tells the patients, they can’t provide an informed consent.

Pharmaceutical companies are not required to report adverse reactions to their drugs using worldwide totals and only report the injuries and deaths that occur in each jurisdiction, a much smaller number. Safety information is viewed as “commercial secrets.” This makes it impossible for regulators to determine how dangerous the drugs truly are.

The information Health Canada analyzes to review/approve new drugs is kept secret, preventing independent researchers from reviewing it or challenging it; the same information that is routinely published on the FDA website.

The Canadian Pharmacists Association reported to the Romanow Commission that between $2-$9 billion per year is wasted on the overuse and misuse of prescription drugs. Doctors simply do not report adverse drug reactions (less than 1% is reported). This lack of data prevents regulators from spotting killers and getting risky drugs off the market before they injure or kill many patients. Drug labels often report a number of adverse drug reactions, which is about 1/100th of the reality, making patients victims of their doctor’s reporting negligence.

In Ontario, under the current Coroner’s Act, all prescription and over-the-counter drug deaths are identified as “natural.” This keeps everyone off the hook legally.

Drug companies take adverse drug reaction reports and manipulate the data before reporting them to their ‘partners’ at Health Canada, usually blaming the patient by assuming (often with no evidence) it was an overdose, the patient had a previously undiagnosed ‘condition’ or they were a “poor metabolizer.” They never conclude there is anything wrong with the drug itself. If they are unable to blame the patient, they simply change the label, which few doctors ever read, adding a new “contraindication” in the fine print. By the time Vanessa Young died from Prepulsid, there had been five label changes over 10 years, yet sales had kept growing to $1 billion per year.

Since the 1960s, 41 drugs have been taken off the Canadian market, many or most for injuring or killing patients. No one at Health Canada has even kept a record of why these drugs were withdrawn. Drugs crash, as planes do. No one would ask Air Canada to investigate its own crashes. The independent Transportation Safety Board does that. So why do we ask Health Canada to investigate its crashes?

Beginning in 1997, Health Canada was directed to support the pharmaceutical industry as a ‘partner’ in health care. They have done so by supporting the industry agenda: increasing drug approvals and sales by promoting “Smart Regulation” under the euphemism “Progressive Licensing.” Progressive Licensing would add new post market surveillance it says, yet working to speed up drug approvals for its industry ‘partners’. Many of the drugs taken off the market were ‘fast track’ approvals. We don’t rush air traffic controllers because that would be dangerous and we should not rush drug approvals, period.

There is a career track at Health Canada for senior bureaucrats, which includes taking an early pension and then starting a new job in industry. One decision made by a drug reviewer or senior Health Canada official can mean more than $100 million a year in sales for one drug (i.e. Losec).

Health Canada has refused to enforce the rules against Direct to Consumer Advertising of prescription drugs in Canada, ads which use fear to drive patients into doctors’ offices to demand the most expensive new drugs that may or may not help them, but which have new adverse effects. Research has proven most doctors will give their patients these drugs.

From 2000, the name Health Protection Branch disappeared from use and Marketed Health Products Directorate took its place. Health Canada went from protecting Canadians to helping the drug companies market drugs to them.

When a drug is injuring or killing patients or gets bad publicity, officials at Health Canada and the pharmaceutical companies exchange notes so our regulators are directed what to say to the media about the drug by the people who make and sell it.

Health Canada does not routinely investigate why drugs kill patients. It tracks the adverse drug reaction reports on their website. That’s like a police officer filling out crime reports and never investigating them.

Health Canada does not order risky or dangerous drugs off the market although no responsible Minister of Health would refuse to take bureaucratic direction on such an action. Instead they ‘negotiate’ the fine print on safety warnings and the drug labels to help keep the drugs on the market, knowing most doctors never read them.

[Nikanit]

Originally Posted by Gust

A Good read, I know it's tough for some on here, but, try. Just try to read the whole article.

by Terence Young



Terence Young, Member of Parliament for Oakville, Ontario, is the founder and Chair of Drug Safety Canada, a research and public advocacy organization based in Oakville. He has been active in issues related to prescription drug safety since March 2000, after losing his 15-year-old daughter Vanessa to the Johnson & Johnson manufactured drug Prepulsid, marketed by Janssen-Ortho Inc.

Prescription drugs taken as prescribed in hospitals are the fourth leading cause of death in the US and Canada, after cancer, heart disease and strokes. They cause about 10,000 deaths a year in Canada and about 106,000 deaths a year and over two million serious injuries in the US. As many as another 10,000 deaths a year in Canada are thought to occur outside hospitals due to the wrong drug, dosage errors and adverse reactions. One out of four admissions to internal medicine in Canadian hospitals is related to prescription drugs, of which 70% are preventable. Canadians now spend more on prescription drugs ($24 billion) than we do on doctors ($18 billion).

All drugs cause adverse effects. The only difference between a drug and a poison is dosage. Many drugs are marketed at dosages that are risky for many patients, referred to as a narrow therapeutic index. Sixteen major drugs have been pulled off the North American market since 1997 for injuring or killing patients including the drug that killed Vanessa Young – Prepulsid. Vioxx alone may have killed 55,000-65,000 patients before being withdrawn by the manufacturer, Merck, in 2004.

Over-the-counter drugs also cause many deaths. Every year, more than 15,000 patients die in North America from ordinary aspirin and Ibuprofen. Tylenol is the cause of thousands of hospital admissions and hundreds of deaths annually in North America.

Patient information leaflets are dangerous because they create a false sense of security, listing only minor adverse reactions. Drug labels are 30-50 pages of fine print, written by lawyers. Very few doctors ever read them. Those who do are often confused. Instead, they get their drug information from commissioned ‘detail reps’ who exaggerate the effectiveness of the drugs and play down the risks.

Most doctors get the rest of their drug information at Continuing Medical Education conferences or meetings held at expensive restaurants, resorts or on exotic trips sponsored by the drug companies. Big pharma spends upwards of $20,000 per doctor a year to create debts of gratitude. Doctors do not believe these gifts affect their prescribing habits; a drug rep’s dream.

Doctors in North America accept $ 4 billion per year in free samples of the newest and most expensive drugs and use them to create debts of gratitude in their patients. Since most illnesses get better on their own and the placebo effect works 30-70% of the time, patients believe the samples worked and begin buying them unnecessarily, sometimes for life.

Specialists are paid up to $20,000 per patient to enroll patients in drugs trials out of their offices. They have to mention that this is a trial, but are not required to tell the patients they are being paid to do so. A specialist can make up to $2 million on the side out of their office with 100 patients and never have to tell them they are being treated like a canary in a mine in exchange for money.

All drugs must be approved as safe and effective by Health Canada. To get approved, new drugs do not have to be proven more effective or even as effective as the existing bestseller for that condition. They only have to be proven slightly more effective than a sugar pill (placebo). Yet every new drug has new adverse effects. So there is often little chance the benefits will outweigh the risks. No one tells the patients.

Safe does not mean safe by any measurable standard. Safe is a moving target. Safe means that the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks for the population the drug is intended to treat and for its intended use. However, 70% of doctors, with the direct encouragement and illegal promotion of the ‘detail reps’ prescribe drugs off-label, for uses the drugs were never approved for – the cause of most drug deaths. Few patients understand the risks they are assuming when they agree to off-label use.

A drug considered safe today can be considered not safe tomorrow if the drug company comes up with a new drug to replace a bestseller. Safe is an arbitrary standard set by drug companies and Health Canada based on what they have to sell. That leads to hundreds of injuries and deaths. No one tells the patients. Drugs are proven safe after four phases of testing. Phase four is selling a new drug on the open market. Any patient taking a new drug is becoming part of a giant drug trial. Because no one ever tells the patients, they can’t provide an informed consent.

Pharmaceutical companies are not required to report adverse reactions to their drugs using worldwide totals and only report the injuries and deaths that occur in each jurisdiction, a much smaller number. Safety information is viewed as “commercial secrets.” This makes it impossible for regulators to determine how dangerous the drugs truly are.

The information Health Canada analyzes to review/approve new drugs is kept secret, preventing independent researchers from reviewing it or challenging it; the same information that is routinely published on the FDA website.

The Canadian Pharmacists Association reported to the Romanow Commission that between $2-$9 billion per year is wasted on the overuse and misuse of prescription drugs. Doctors simply do not report adverse drug reactions (less than 1% is reported). This lack of data prevents regulators from spotting killers and getting risky drugs off the market before they injure or kill many patients. Drug labels often report a number of adverse drug reactions, which is about 1/100th of the reality, making patients victims of their doctor’s reporting negligence.

In Ontario, under the current Coroner’s Act, all prescription and over-the-counter drug deaths are identified as “natural.” This keeps everyone off the hook legally.

Drug companies take adverse drug reaction reports and manipulate the data before reporting them to their ‘partners’ at Health Canada, usually blaming the patient by assuming (often with no evidence) it was an overdose, the patient had a previously undiagnosed ‘condition’ or they were a “poor metabolizer.” They never conclude there is anything wrong with the drug itself. If they are unable to blame the patient, they simply change the label, which few doctors ever read, adding a new “contraindication” in the fine print. By the time Vanessa Young died from Prepulsid, there had been five label changes over 10 years, yet sales had kept growing to $1 billion per year.

Since the 1960s, 41 drugs have been taken off the Canadian market, many or most for injuring or killing patients. No one at Health Canada has even kept a record of why these drugs were withdrawn. Drugs crash, as planes do. No one would ask Air Canada to investigate its own crashes. The independent Transportation Safety Board does that. So why do we ask Health Canada to investigate its crashes?

Beginning in 1997, Health Canada was directed to support the pharmaceutical industry as a ‘partner’ in health care. They have done so by supporting the industry agenda: increasing drug approvals and sales by promoting “Smart Regulation” under the euphemism “Progressive Licensing.” Progressive Licensing would add new post market surveillance it says, yet working to speed up drug approvals for its industry ‘partners’. Many of the drugs taken off the market were ‘fast track’ approvals. We don’t rush air traffic controllers because that would be dangerous and we should not rush drug approvals, period.

There is a career track at Health Canada for senior bureaucrats, which includes taking an early pension and then starting a new job in industry. One decision made by a drug reviewer or senior Health Canada official can mean more than $100 million a year in sales for one drug (i.e. Losec).

Health Canada has refused to enforce the rules against Direct to Consumer Advertising of prescription drugs in Canada, ads which use fear to drive patients into doctors’ offices to demand the most expensive new drugs that may or may not help them, but which have new adverse effects. Research has proven most doctors will give their patients these drugs.

From 2000, the name Health Protection Branch disappeared from use and Marketed Health Products Directorate took its place. Health Canada went from protecting Canadians to helping the drug companies market drugs to them.

When a drug is injuring or killing patients or gets bad publicity, officials at Health Canada and the pharmaceutical companies exchange notes so our regulators are directed what to say to the media about the drug by the people who make and sell it.

Health Canada does not routinely investigate why drugs kill patients. It tracks the adverse drug reaction reports on their website. That’s like a police officer filling out crime reports and never investigating them.

Health Canada does not order risky or dangerous drugs off the market although no responsible Minister of Health would refuse to take bureaucratic direction on such an action. Instead they ‘negotiate’ the fine print on safety warnings and the drug labels to help keep the drugs on the market, knowing most doctors never read them.

Word.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Gust

A Good read, I know it's tough for some on here, but, try. Just try to read the whole article.

by Terence Young



Terence Young, Member of Parliament for Oakville, Ontario, is the founder and Chair of Drug Safety Canada, a research and public advocacy organization based in Oakville. He has been active in issues related to prescription drug safety since March 2000, after losing his 15-year-old daughter Vanessa to the Johnson & Johnson manufactured drug Prepulsid, marketed by Janssen-Ortho Inc.

Prescription drugs taken as prescribed in hospitals are the fourth leading cause of death in the US and Canada, after cancer, heart disease and strokes. They cause about 10,000 deaths a year in Canada and about 106,000 deaths a year and over two million serious injuries in the US. As many as another 10,000 deaths a year in Canada are thought to occur outside hospitals due to the wrong drug, dosage errors and adverse reactions. One out of four admissions to internal medicine in Canadian hospitals is related to prescription drugs, of which 70% are preventable. Canadians now spend more on prescription drugs ($24 billion) than we do on doctors ($18 billion).

All drugs cause adverse effects. The only difference between a drug and a poison is dosage. Many drugs are marketed at dosages that are risky for many patients, referred to as a narrow therapeutic index. Sixteen major drugs have been pulled off the North American market since 1997 for injuring or killing patients including the drug that killed Vanessa Young – Prepulsid. Vioxx alone may have killed 55,000-65,000 patients before being withdrawn by the manufacturer, Merck, in 2004.

Over-the-counter drugs also cause many deaths. Every year, more than 15,000 patients die in North America from ordinary aspirin and Ibuprofen. Tylenol is the cause of thousands of hospital admissions and hundreds of deaths annually in North America.

Patient information leaflets are dangerous because they create a false sense of security, listing only minor adverse reactions. Drug labels are 30-50 pages of fine print, written by lawyers. Very few doctors ever read them. Those who do are often confused. Instead, they get their drug information from commissioned ‘detail reps’ who exaggerate the effectiveness of the drugs and play down the risks.

Most doctors get the rest of their drug information at Continuing Medical Education conferences or meetings held at expensive restaurants, resorts or on exotic trips sponsored by the drug companies. Big pharma spends upwards of $20,000 per doctor a year to create debts of gratitude. Doctors do not believe these gifts affect their prescribing habits; a drug rep’s dream.

Doctors in North America accept $ 4 billion per year in free samples of the newest and most expensive drugs and use them to create debts of gratitude in their patients. Since most illnesses get better on their own and the placebo effect works 30-70% of the time, patients believe the samples worked and begin buying them unnecessarily, sometimes for life.

Specialists are paid up to $20,000 per patient to enroll patients in drugs trials out of their offices. They have to mention that this is a trial, but are not required to tell the patients they are being paid to do so. A specialist can make up to $2 million on the side out of their office with 100 patients and never have to tell them they are being treated like a canary in a mine in exchange for money.

All drugs must be approved as safe and effective by Health Canada. To get approved, new drugs do not have to be proven more effective or even as effective as the existing bestseller for that condition. They only have to be proven slightly more effective than a sugar pill (placebo). Yet every new drug has new adverse effects. So there is often little chance the benefits will outweigh the risks. No one tells the patients.

Safe does not mean safe by any measurable standard. Safe is a moving target. Safe means that the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks for the population the drug is intended to treat and for its intended use. However, 70% of doctors, with the direct encouragement and illegal promotion of the ‘detail reps’ prescribe drugs off-label, for uses the drugs were never approved for – the cause of most drug deaths. Few patients understand the risks they are assuming when they agree to off-label use.

A drug considered safe today can be considered not safe tomorrow if the drug company comes up with a new drug to replace a bestseller. Safe is an arbitrary standard set by drug companies and Health Canada based on what they have to sell. That leads to hundreds of injuries and deaths. No one tells the patients. Drugs are proven safe after four phases of testing. Phase four is selling a new drug on the open market. Any patient taking a new drug is becoming part of a giant drug trial. Because no one ever tells the patients, they can’t provide an informed consent.

Pharmaceutical companies are not required to report adverse reactions to their drugs using worldwide totals and only report the injuries and deaths that occur in each jurisdiction, a much smaller number. Safety information is viewed as “commercial secrets.” This makes it impossible for regulators to determine how dangerous the drugs truly are.

The information Health Canada analyzes to review/approve new drugs is kept secret, preventing independent researchers from reviewing it or challenging it; the same information that is routinely published on the FDA website.

The Canadian Pharmacists Association reported to the Romanow Commission that between $2-$9 billion per year is wasted on the overuse and misuse of prescription drugs. Doctors simply do not report adverse drug reactions (less than 1% is reported). This lack of data prevents regulators from spotting killers and getting risky drugs off the market before they injure or kill many patients. Drug labels often report a number of adverse drug reactions, which is about 1/100th of the reality, making patients victims of their doctor’s reporting negligence.

In Ontario, under the current Coroner’s Act, all prescription and over-the-counter drug deaths are identified as “natural.” This keeps everyone off the hook legally.

Drug companies take adverse drug reaction reports and manipulate the data before reporting them to their ‘partners’ at Health Canada, usually blaming the patient by assuming (often with no evidence) it was an overdose, the patient had a previously undiagnosed ‘condition’ or they were a “poor metabolizer.” They never conclude there is anything wrong with the drug itself. If they are unable to blame the patient, they simply change the label, which few doctors ever read, adding a new “contraindication” in the fine print. By the time Vanessa Young died from Prepulsid, there had been five label changes over 10 years, yet sales had kept growing to $1 billion per year.

Since the 1960s, 41 drugs have been taken off the Canadian market, many or most for injuring or killing patients. No one at Health Canada has even kept a record of why these drugs were withdrawn. Drugs crash, as planes do. No one would ask Air Canada to investigate its own crashes. The independent Transportation Safety Board does that. So why do we ask Health Canada to investigate its crashes?

Beginning in 1997, Health Canada was directed to support the pharmaceutical industry as a ‘partner’ in health care. They have done so by supporting the industry agenda: increasing drug approvals and sales by promoting “Smart Regulation” under the euphemism “Progressive Licensing.” Progressive Licensing would add new post market surveillance it says, yet working to speed up drug approvals for its industry ‘partners’. Many of the drugs taken off the market were ‘fast track’ approvals. We don’t rush air traffic controllers because that would be dangerous and we should not rush drug approvals, period.

There is a career track at Health Canada for senior bureaucrats, which includes taking an early pension and then starting a new job in industry. One decision made by a drug reviewer or senior Health Canada official can mean more than $100 million a year in sales for one drug (i.e. Losec).

Health Canada has refused to enforce the rules against Direct to Consumer Advertising of prescription drugs in Canada, ads which use fear to drive patients into doctors’ offices to demand the most expensive new drugs that may or may not help them, but which have new adverse effects. Research has proven most doctors will give their patients these drugs.

From 2000, the name Health Protection Branch disappeared from use and Marketed Health Products Directorate took its place. Health Canada went from protecting Canadians to helping the drug companies market drugs to them.

When a drug is injuring or killing patients or gets bad publicity, officials at Health Canada and the pharmaceutical companies exchange notes so our regulators are directed what to say to the media about the drug by the people who make and sell it.

Health Canada does not routinely investigate why drugs kill patients. It tracks the adverse drug reaction reports on their website. That’s like a police officer filling out crime reports and never investigating them.

Health Canada does not order risky or dangerous drugs off the market although no responsible Minister of Health would refuse to take bureaucratic direction on such an action. Instead they ‘negotiate’ the fine print on safety warnings and the drug labels to help keep the drugs on the market, knowing most doctors never read them.

Listen Gust....I don't know why you are trying to ruin a perfectly good grudge match by refering to facts but it will surely cause no end of trouble.

Ignorance is bliss my friend....don't you know that?

Please stop the maddness!!!