RCMP Gun Seizure Meeting With Danielle Smith

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Congrats..

Yet it says nothing about your charter of rights and freedoms..

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html

You should run.. I'd be embarrassed..

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by Rockman

The law is the law and rights are rights. When we start excusing and overlooking any entity breaking the law, including LE, it's a slippery slope to the loss of more and more freedoms.

I see no gray area there and find it rather scary to see someone(s) defending blatant disregard for freedoms and the law. That's my opinion.

Nailed it.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Yes I have heard that saying.. The other 95% of the population that aren't gun owners are quite happy the RCMP secured the guns, in fact, it is a very small few who are mad about this, i'd say less than 25% of gun owners. How about you walk in their shoes? Have you ever lost someone who was shot by a stolen gun? I have..

Difference is, they are securing private property that is at high risk of being stolen and used in crimes.. END OF STORY..

borrow.. lol. ok.. I'm sure they were using the guns while they had them..



haha.. exaggerate much?.. If my house was evacuated, and under a state of emergency, and you were a LEO ordered to do that. Sure.


You should really take your own advise.. your points just completely undermined your ability to comprehend what is actually going on. But if you want to twist the story around and make it what it isn't.. Have at er..



Your right.. But Maybe you should reread your rights and freedoms during a state of emergency...



http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?pa...7&display=html


Yeah.. Pretty cut and dry..

Oh....BS.

First of all what criminal would make the drive to High River past a ring of displaced residents wiggle into town in boats past police and military patrols using some very sophisticated observation equipment... to enter a flooded town that was arguably the best protected in Canada at that time while everyone argues that getting a firearm on the streets anywhere else is so easy?
Especially since it would likely have been easier to find and steal firearms and valuables in Calgary or anywhere else in Canada at that same time.

Second, it's not like the cops couldn't have accessed those homes with owner permission and even keys.
Residents...at least most of them...were still in the area... and they could have been reached and permission given.
They could have even been taken along to their homes to secure those arms.

And finally while I do feel for you in regards to your personal tragedy... in a free country you don't impose upon the rights and freedoms of a whole population because of individual and anecdotal tragedy.

We don't ban alcohol or cars because some people combined the two and then run others down even though that is FAR more common than a stolen firearm being used to commit murder or any other crime.

As for your estimate of what percentages of firearm owners/non-owners approve they are your own numbers and have no basis in fact.
You have no idea how people really feel about this and while I agree that most non-owners would likely agree with you if the question was posed as a firearms issue... those same people would likely feel very different if an unbiased question regarding property was posed instead.

And that is the salient issue... property.
It doesn't matter what that property is....all goods are equal under the law and individual feelings about what sort of property has been seized should not be allowed to enter the conversation and cloud judgment.
It is not right ro fair for individuals to judge the merit of a property argument based upon how they feel about the items taken.

It was in a nut shell poor judgement and heavy handedness on the part of the RCMP.

[pseelk]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

End of story for you - if that's the case, then stop posting. It's not the end of the story.

The state of emergency was called AFTER the police started beating down doors - they actually used spike strips to keep people out of town. Even the ones that didn't have homes flooded were kept out - and you agree with that? Any firearms owner that supports ownership 100% should be appalled that this happened, i'm amazed at how much people support what the RCMP does.

This doesn't smell like a trial to you? This never happened in Calgary, why only high river?

"Must look out for the good of the public" - yep, that's how they sell it - public safety.

They just wanted to see if they could get away with it.Afterall if they can get away with it in Alberta,The rest of the country would be a cake walk.I'm with you.This can not be allowed to go unpunished.IMO.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Do you know how many locked up commercial establishments had their doors kicked in to make sure they were vacant??? Perhaps not a single one???

Insurance shouldn't have to be used to repair damage done by the police....I'd be really po'd having to put out $500 for a deductible and have my home insurance rates go up because my door was kicked in on an evacuated home.

I bet lots of commercial estabishments were checked.. Were they kicked in?

Why not use insurance? Your rates are going up because you live in a flood plain anyways..

[skidderman]

The biggest concern I have is that the very people that are our protectors clearly lied about their intentions. This in itself spells a loss of trust no matter if the intentions were right or wrong.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

End of story for you - if that's the case, then stop posting. It's not the end of the story.

The state of emergency was called AFTER the police started beating down doors - they actually used spike strips to keep people out of town. Even the ones that didn't have homes flooded were kept out - and you agree with that? Any firearms owner that supports ownership 100% should be appalled that this happened, i'm amazed at how much people support what the RCMP does.

This doesn't smell like a trial to you? This never happened in Calgary, why only high river?

"Must look out for the good of the public" - yep, that's how they sell it - public safety.

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Ive found the local state of emergency in high river as early as the 22 june,the provincial decloration came later. Just saying.

just saying you state the start of the state of emergency different than fish gunner and this was brought up in another thread.

If High River declared a state of emergency what power does the RCMP have that is different before versus after the Province also declares a state of emergency?

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

If High River declared a state of emergency what power does the RCMP have that is different before versus after the Province also declares a state of emergency?

Not the power to break down peoples doors. Bear in mind that Calgary declared a state of emergency as well, there were no seizures. High River was the only town that had firearms taken - but not the only one flooded.

As far as i'm concerned, this was a test to see what they can get away with - and i'm willing to bet that we will see it again in the future. If people are ok with it, then they've just given the RCMP more power - they just set a precedent.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Oh....BS.

First of all what criminal would make the drive to High River past a ring of displaced residents wiggle into town in boats past police and military patrols using some very sophisticated observation equipment... to enter a flooded town that was arguably the best protected in Canada at that time while everyone argues that getting a firearm on the streets anywhere else is so easy?
Especially since it would likely have been easier to find and steal firearms and valuables in Calgary or anywhere else in Canada at that same time.

So they put a chainlink fence around the town, and had guards every 20m? All they did was put up road blocks, and had a patrols going on. If someone wanted to, they could easily get in. Or maybe they stayed in, since that is an option also. Or what about the first group of returns? What if someone like our "friend" up in mayerthrope decided this was the perfect opportunity to stay in the flood zone, and go collect all the guns/ammuntion he can, and just have a hay day on anyone returning after the flood. Crazy as it sounds, situations like this are happening more and more.

Second, it's not like the cops couldn't have accessed those homes with owner permission and even keys.
Residents...at least most of them...were still in the area... and they could have been reached and permission given.
They could have even been taken along to their homes to secure those arms.

Now that is funny..how do you get ahold of +5000 home owners that have taken up residence elsewhere? How do you know all the homeowners have evacuated? How do you know they aren't trapped in the basement barely keeping their head above water? Do you wait til you contact someone at the residence?

It doesn't matter what that property is....all goods are equal under the law and individual feelings about what sort of property has been seized should not be allowed to enter the conversation and cloud judgment.

BUT THEY ARE NOT EQUAL.. Not everyone can own a gun (legally).

[58thecat]

Here we go round 5 I thinkI missed the expert opinions from this forum.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

End of story for you - if that's the case, then stop posting. It's not the end of the story.

The state of emergency was called AFTER the police started beating down doors - they actually used spike strips to keep people out of town. Even the ones that didn't have homes flooded were kept out - and you agree with that? Any firearms owner that supports ownership 100% should be appalled that this happened, i'm amazed at how much people support what the RCMP does.

This doesn't smell like a trial to you? This never happened in Calgary, why only high river?

"Must look out for the good of the public" - yep, that's how they sell it - public safety.

Yes, it is.. No one will be fired or anything.

The state of emergency was called AFTER the police started beating down doors -

Do you know why they do that (beat down doors)? to get people to safety.. You know.. the lowly grandma that doesn't ever answer her door.

they actually used spike strips to keep people out of town. Even the ones that didn't have homes flooded were kept out - and you agree with that?

Yes.. I do.. A whole town without power or water. Can you imagine the logistics if you allowed the unflooded ones to stay? Now you need more police to ensure those people are staying in their house (not stealing property)..

This doesn't smell like a trial to you? This never happened in Calgary, why only high river?

It sounds like a losing trial (most are anyways, only the lawyers win).

Different LEO's. RCMP = high river, CPS = Calgary. and I imagine since they are under different jurisdictions, that would have something to do with it, also that Calgary wasn't evacuated.

[nekred]

JB AOL

You are not getting it.... Many on this forum and one in particular who is not posting fought very hard against the percieved criminalization of firearms owners. ALL Firearms owners had to be registered regardless of past history use etc. there is more invasion of privacy for owning a firearm WITHOUT due process than there is for a sex offender. foe a sex offender to be registered it has to go through a court of law and requires a judge to render a judgement which then is also subject to an appeal process.

The comparison for firearms owners all having to be registered without due process is much like every person who is equipped with the organs to commit a sex crime having to be registered whether or nit they have committed a crime.

Now there is a huge group of people whose freedom and privacy was unnecessarily invaded by the authorities, enforced by the RCMP that fough a long battle to rid Canada of the LGR and this group of folks are watching closely on ANY percieved or actual threat of this farce being utilised/ accepted, or condoned. The seizure of firearms in High River is indicative of the the fear of having firearms being seized unnecesarily. In the original LGR there was a clausein there about ehere a Sate of Emergency is declared that Law enforcement authorities were granted the power to seize firearms to prevent the threat of armed riots etc. In the most extreme sense this could mean that foreign troops under authority of the UN could be dispatched to seize all CANADIAN firearms.

This is still in place but only for those firearms classed as restricted or prohibited.

So when Long guns are being seized WITHOUT due process it raises the flags of all the watchdogs who are concerned with their own personal freedom. As a former soldier I may not agree with youro religion but will fight to the death for your right to worship the way you choose in accorance with other laws. If your religion requires child sacrifice then we will have an issue.

All it takes for wrong to prevail is for 51% to do nothing. If we do not hold our authorities accountable we will wake up one day in a police state and realise that we no longer have any recourse... A vote is only good if there is strength and meaning behind it....and it is respected....

When the police have wrongfully accused you and acted contrary to law and there is no recourse remember this moment.

While I was in service I served All Canadians... even those whose ear I would not pi$$ in if their brain was on fire!....

[fargineyesore]

Good points. I'm going to email my MP and tell him I want the Feds to step in and investigate and charge/fire, etc. who is responsible for this and ensure it isn't allowed to be swept under the rug or be repeated. Not sure what response I'll get, but we'll see I guess. I am constantly dismayed by the attitude of the RCMP, or other police forces, but lately the RCMP, that the law only applied to peons like me and not them. Getting really sick of it actually, and I'm disappointed there are people out there that see no issue with it. They'll really be screaming when it does affect their rights, but until it does, whatever. Shows that there's too many people that don't give a crap about others.

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by fargineyesore

I'm disappointed there are people out there that see no issue with it.

x2. Small minded people who can't grasp the big picture.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

So they put a chainlink fence around the town, and had guards every 20m? All they did was put up road blocks, and had a patrols going on. If someone wanted to, they could easily get in. Or maybe they stayed in, since that is an option also. Or what about the first group of returns? What if someone like our "friend" up in mayerthrope decided this was the perfect opportunity to stay in the flood zone, and go collect all the guns/ammuntion he can, and just have a hay day on anyone returning after the flood. Crazy as it sounds, situations like this are happening more and more.



Now that is funny..how do you get ahold of +5000 home owners that have taken up residence elsewhere? How do you know all the homeowners have evacuated? How do you know they aren't trapped in the basement barely keeping their head above water? Do you wait til you contact someone at the residence?



BUT THEY ARE NOT EQUAL.. Not everyone can own a gun (legally).

Not everyone can own a gun (legally) Really, if someone wants a gun they can get one and there are a lot of easier places than a flooded town.

[CanuckShooter]

Does anyone have any knowledge of any commercial establishments in High River having their doors kicked in by the police so they could search for 'potential victims'?? Or was the B&E search and seizure exclusive to firearm owners homes??

[Mickey]

Why was the search and seizure only conducted in High River and not in Calgary?

Is it because the Wild Rose Party has the elected official in High River?

Redford Denying that anything even happened makes this a lot more suspicious. (tin foil hat off)

All firearms owners should be infuriated with the way this is being treated and rally together, not let this be a way for them to break us down further.

Someone needs to answer and be held responsible/accountable for the laws that were broken by the men and women who are sworn to uphold the law.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Not the power to break down peoples doors. Bear in mind that Calgary declared a state of emergency as well, there were no seizures. High River was the only town that had firearms taken - but not the only one flooded.

As far as i'm concerned, this was a test to see what they can get away with - and i'm willing to bet that we will see it again in the future. If people are ok with it, then they've just given the RCMP more power - they just set a precedent.

Nobody searched homes and a little old lady died in her apartment. So I guess you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Another thread of guess, conjecture, conspiracy theories at least gives you and I something to read on the train home.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by nekred

JB AOL

You are not getting it.... Many on this forum and one in particular who is not posting fought very hard against the percieved criminalization of firearms owners. ALL Firearms owners had to be registered regardless of past history use etc. there is more invasion of privacy for owning a firearm WITHOUT due process than there is for a sex offender. foe a sex offender to be registered it has to go through a court of law and requires a judge to render a judgement which then is also subject to an appeal process.

The comparison for firearms owners all having to be registered without due process is much like every person who is equipped with the organs to commit a sex crime having to be registered whether or nit they have committed a crime.

Now there is a huge group of people whose freedom and privacy was unnecessarily invaded by the authorities, enforced by the RCMP that fough a long battle to rid Canada of the LGR and this group of folks are watching closely on ANY percieved or actual threat of this farce being utilised/ accepted, or condoned. The seizure of firearms in High River is indicative of the the fear of having firearms being seized unnecesarily. In the original LGR there was a clausein there about ehere a Sate of Emergency is declared that Law enforcement authorities were granted the power to seize firearms to prevent the threat of armed riots etc. In the most extreme sense this could mean that foreign troops under authority of the UN could be dispatched to seize all CANADIAN firearms.

This is still in place but only for those firearms classed as restricted or prohibited.

So when Long guns are being seized WITHOUT due process it raises the flags of all the watchdogs who are concerned with their own personal freedom. As a former soldier I may not agree with youro religion but will fight to the death for your right to worship the way you choose in accorance with other laws. If your religion requires child sacrifice then we will have an issue.

All it takes for wrong to prevail is for 51% to do nothing. If we do not hold our authorities accountable we will wake up one day in a police state and realise that we no longer have any recourse... A vote is only good if there is strength and meaning behind it....and it is respected....

When the police have wrongfully accused you and acted contrary to law and there is no recourse remember this moment.

While I was in service I served All Canadians... even those whose ear I would not pi$$ in if their brain was on fire!....

Until we know more facts... there is mostly guess work in your post. Fear of nothing is still fear. Giving adjective like seized may very well be incorrect. There may be a few goof ups or none. Likely not a conspiracy but if there is the RCMP acted inappropriately then changes and protections need to be implimented. We need tangible facts. Why don't someone who believe a conspiracy happened contact that Sun reporter and see how many have come forward with complaints of illegal search and seisure? It has been a long, long time with no story out of the hysteria.

Not saying I know for sure nothing happened... but I can make all the accusations I want and never back them up. What are they worth? Absolutely nothing. Just a bunch of folks getting together to whine about the government. In order for that whining to have any value to effect change in our society you have to have the strength to back it up.

Otherwise a person is just deemed to be a kook.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...in_canada.html

Like these guys.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

So they put a chainlink fence around the town, and had guards every 20m? All they did was put up road blocks, and had a patrols going on. If someone wanted to, they could easily get in. Or maybe they stayed in, since that is an option also. Or what about the first group of returns? What if someone like our "friend" up in mayerthrope decided this was the perfect opportunity to stay in the flood zone, and go collect all the guns/ammuntion he can, and just have a hay day on anyone returning after the flood. Crazy as it sounds, situations like this are happening more and more.



Now that is funny..how do you get ahold of +5000 home owners that have taken up residence elsewhere? How do you know all the homeowners have evacuated? How do you know they aren't trapped in the basement barely keeping their head above water? Do you wait til you contact someone at the residence?



BUT THEY ARE NOT EQUAL.. Not everyone can own a gun (legally).

You've obviously got no idea of the surveillance capability the military has and no idea of how disaster response plans roll out.
I'm pretty sure everyone that was interested knew exactly where to regitser their new location.

Whatever.... keep supporting the idea of a police state... you're half way there already... but don't complain when you get what you wished for.

[Vigilante]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Ransack.. lol..ok.. I'm sure they did more damage than 8 ft of water..

NO.. that makes no sense at all..

Living in HIGH RIVER, which is on a flood plain, that floods EVERY year. This is something you should be ready for. END OF STORY.

At the end of the day, everyone has their guns back, so what's the big deal? Oh that's right, they entered my property w/o my permission, secured & saved my firearms, then returned them to me.. they should be punished..

As a resident in High River, I am EXTREMELY OFFENDED by this remark in particular, as well as pretty much everything else you have said in this thread.

My house is no where NEAR a flood plain. Where my house is in town, and where most of the hardest hit in town live, it has NEVER flooded before. The water was diverted towards my house, because of man made roads and waterways.

Second of all, Insurance does NOT cover ANY DAMAGE DUE TO RCMP. Do you have some special rider to cover damage from them wrecking your stuff? If I break into your house and wreck your stuff you are covered under THEFT and VANDALISM. To make those claims, you would have to file a Police Report. For some reason, the RCMP in High River, is not willing to file reports on crimes that they committed.


Why don't you PM me your address, and next time you are away, I will come to your place and take your stuff, but I will leave a note so you can come pick it up when you get back. What would be the big deal with that? I assure you that I am WAY more trustworthy than some of the people that were in my house while I was gone.




This is the kind of BS thinking that put our society in the crap hole place where it is today. Total blind faith that everyone collecting a check from the government is just looking out for your best interest, and the willingness to let someone else pick up the tab.

[leeaspell]

^^^^ well said sir.

[Vigilante]

Also, how do you get a hold of all of the people? We were all told to register with both evacuation centers, and then the Red Cross. 90% of people did that. We told them who we were, where we lived, where we were staying, and how to contact us. We also told them if anyone was missing or might be in our houses. This was all before they started kicking down doors, and quite a bit before they started seizing guns.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Vigilante

Second of all, Insurance does NOT cover ANY DAMAGE DUE TO RCMP. Do you have some special rider to cover damage from them wrecking your stuff? If I break into your house and wreck your stuff you are covered under THEFT and VANDALISM. To make those claims, you would have to file a Police Report. For some reason, the RCMP in High River, is not willing to file reports on crimes that they committed.

Interesting spin i'm sure most here never thought about.

Originally Posted by Vigilante

This is the kind of BS thinking that put our society in the crap hole place where it is today. Total blind faith that everyone collecting a check from the government is just looking out for your best interest, and the willingness to let someone else pick up the tab.

Well said.

[elkhunter11]

^^^^ well said sir.

Very well said.

[MoFugger21]

Originally Posted by Vigilante

As a resident in High River, I am EXTREMELY OFFENDED by this remark in particular, as well as pretty much everything else you have said in this thread.

My house is no where NEAR a flood plain. Where my house is in town, and where most of the hardest hit in town live, it has NEVER flooded before. The water was diverted towards my house, because of man made roads and waterways.

Second of all, Insurance does NOT cover ANY DAMAGE DUE TO RCMP. Do you have some special rider to cover damage from them wrecking your stuff? If I break into your house and wreck your stuff you are covered under THEFT and VANDALISM. To make those claims, you would have to file a Police Report. For some reason, the RCMP in High River, is not willing to file reports on crimes that they committed.


Why don't you PM me your address, and next time you are away, I will come to your place and take your stuff, but I will leave a note so you can come pick it up when you get back. What would be the big deal with that? I assure you that I am WAY more trustworthy than some of the people that were in my house while I was gone.




This is the kind of BS thinking that put our society in the crap hole place where it is today. Total blind faith that everyone collecting a check from the government is just looking out for your best interest, and the willingness to let someone else pick up the tab.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

X2 I don't fault the officers on the ground for carrying out orders, but the bozo who gave the order needs a trip to the woodshed.

'just following orders'


Didn't work out well for the Nazi's.....

Participating in the commission of a criminal act...just following orders is no defence... And neither is ignorance of the very laws you have sworn to uphold.

[silverdoctor]

Well, sun news chimes in with clips of the red queen...


http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/f.../2649891915001

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Nobody searched homes and a little old lady died in her apartment. So I guess you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Another thread of guess, conjecture, conspiracy theories at least gives you and I something to read on the train home.

Considering all the cut-and-pasting you do of news articles it's conveniently ironic on your part that you don't mention the fact the little old lady told the police that she planned to leave, refusing to at the time the police went door to door informing residents of the evacuation order. Your statement that nobody searched homes, and a little old lady died is grossly misleading and a borderline libelous statement

Your constant trolling, accusing others of conjecture, and conspiracy theories is tiresome.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

Considering all the cut-and-pasting you do of news articles it's conveniently ironic on your part that you don't mention the fact the little old lady told the police that she planned to leave, refusing to at the time the police went door to door informing residents of the evacuation order. Your statement that nobody searched homes, and a little old lady died is grossly misleading and a borderline libelous statement

Your constant trolling, accusing others of conjecture, and conspiracy theories is tiresome.

Perhaps a bit more door kicking may have saved that lady. why dont you post up your "facts" LD .that way we can compare" facts".