Snowmobile trespass

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

If you take away all the what if's and maybe coulda's , and and stick to the facts as they were presented in the video .This thread shrinks to about 2 pages.Bottom line is the landowner took a gun and went after some guys he says rode where they shouldn't ...

Trespassing...

Trespassing, it's called TRESPASSING!

[expmler]

Originally Posted by BobNewton

You're telling me it to be impossible that the map maker made a mistake?

Newly inherited land and the new occupier isn't that sure of his boundaries?

Out hunting with a good buddy that made a mistake while getting permission?

You logic is wrong my friend. If you cannot admit mistakes can happen. There's the problem.

No ones perfect. Not even you friend.

When I am out looking for some place to hunt I carry an RM map with me. When I find a piece of land that I want to hunt on, the map tells me who owns it. The RM map also shows you where the owners home is. I take the map to the owner and point out the piece of land on the map and ask for permission. If it is not his land or there is a mistake on the map the farmer always knows it. Like I said before there is not a farmer in this province that doesn't know exactly where his land begins and ends. If I do not talk face to face with the actual landowner I stay off.

There is no reason these two couldn't have done the same thing before they went out for a ride. If they had done that, this "incident" never would have taken place.

Those kind of "mistakes" are a result of laziness or indifference to the landowner.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

Trespassing...

Trespassing, it's called TRESPASSING!

I fixed it for you so now you can sleep easy

[expmler]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If in the opinion of the RCMP, and the crown prosecutor, the landowner actually threatened the snowmobilers with the shotgun, he would have been arrested very quickly, rather than still be waiting for the prosecutor to decide whether or not to lay charges.

Exactly, this happened 1 month ago. The two douches probably wanted him charged and didn't get their way so they went to the media.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

I absolutely would say something . There is a right way to do it and a wrong way . Packing a gun with intent and then trying to pick a fight by kicking his sled and slapping the guy is not a smart way to live a long happy life

Well, the farmer is older than those other 2, probably older than both of them put together, and I suspect his life would be a lot happier if trespassing snowmobilers stayed off his and his neighbours' lands they have no rights to be on, doing things like killing his cat by running it down, getting stuck in his yard, harassing his animals, cursing and swearing like those two were, and acting aggressively.

You all do realize that farmers who are neighbours look after one another's property, don't you? My FIL was a farmer and when there was something like that going on they rallied to one another's aid. After all, as has often been pointed out, the police are merely hours away if needed now. Some here have suggested the farmer was 'trespassing' on that neighbour's land - that's BS. I would suspect that the guy waiting at the end of the lane was likely the owner of that land where the altercation took place.

I agree with those who have said the video we are seeing is an edited version of the whole thing. I can't help but wonder who was waiting for them at the gate at the end of the lane we see just before the video 'ends'. And I wonder what possible conversation took place there. I hope the police got the whole video (but I doubt it).

I also suspect this wasn't the first time those snowmobiler guys went on private land without permission, nor was it the first time the farmer has had to deal with such people. I wouldn't be surprised at all if those snowmobilers had been on that land before. Likely after a long winter the farmer had just simply had enough and unfortunately but necessarily took matters into his own hands. As I inferred earlier in this thread, if that farmer had had a hickory axe handle in hand I suspect most here would be praising him. And I also suspect, due to the language and mannerisms of the snowmobilers, that he wouldn't have gotten off without injury. I think the presence of that firearm kept things from being worse.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

I fixed it for you so now you can sleep easy

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

& thnx

[HunterDave]

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Well, the farmer is older than those other 2, probably older than both of them put together, and I suspect his life would be a lot happier if trespassing snowmobilers stayed off his and his neighbours' lands they have no rights to be on, doing things like killing his cat by running it down, getting stuck in his yard, harassing his animals, cursing and swearing like those two were, and acting aggressively.

You all do realize that farmers who are neighbours look after one another's property, don't you? My FIL was a farmer and when there was something like that going on they rallied to one another's aid. After all, as has often been pointed out, the police are merely hours away if needed now. Some here have suggested the farmer was 'trespassing' on that neighbour's land - that's BS. I would suspect that the guy waiting at the end of the lane was likely the owner of that land where the altercation took place.

I agree with those who have said the video we are seeing is an edited version of the whole thing. I can't help but wonder who was waiting for them at the gate at the end of the lane we see just before the video 'ends'. And I wonder what possible conversation took place there. I hope the police got the whole video (but I doubt it).

I also suspect this wasn't the first time those snowmobiler guys went on private land without permission, nor was it the first time the farmer has had to deal with such people. I wouldn't be surprised at all if those snowmobilers had been on that land before. Likely after a long winter the farmer had just simply had enough and unfortunately but necessarily took matters into his own hands. As I inferred earlier in this thread, if that farmer had had a hickory axe handle in hand I suspect most here would be praising him. And I also suspect, due to the language and mannerisms of the snowmobilers, that he wouldn't have gotten off without injury. I think the presence of that firearm kept things from being worse.

I never said the Sledders didn't do anything wrong . As for the rest of you post .you are assuming a lot of things that you have no proof of . You imagine things that you have no Idea of what happened. I never heard the sledders swearing at the farmer either. For all you know those guys have never ridden around there before .

[elkhunter11]

I never heard the sledders swearing at the farmer either.

Try watching the video with the sound turned on.

It would very hard not to hear at least one snowmobiler swearing at the landowner.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Try watching the video with the sound turned on.

It would very hard not to hear at least one snowmobiler swearing at the landowner.

X2....pretty apparent there was some cursing even before they got to the farmer...

LC

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

X2....pretty apparent there was some cursing even before they got to the farmer...

LC

Yes I heard the cussing before they stopped but I did not hear them swearing at him .maybe it was drowned out by the news reader of the sounds of slapping and kicking. Irrelevent anyway. some dude comes at you holding agun and kicking your vehicle I suspect your gonna swear at him whether your in the wrong or not .

This is getting pretty nitpicky now so I'll let all you fellas talk about the nuances and details ammongst yourelves

[fish gunner]

Geeze right of free roaming sure makes sense , no liability to the land owner, extra charge if wrong doing is proven ...everybody wins.. what was that song we sung in school this land was made for you and me .... hmmmm where did that train of thought go.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Well, the farmer is older than those other 2, probably older than both of them put together, and I suspect his life would be a lot happier if trespassing snowmobilers stayed off his and his neighbours' lands they have no rights to be on, doing things like killing his cat by running it down, getting stuck in his yard, harassing his animals, cursing and swearing like those two were, and acting aggressively.

You all do realize that farmers who are neighbours look after one another's property, don't you? My FIL was a farmer and when there was something like that going on they rallied to one another's aid. After all, as has often been pointed out, the police are merely hours away if needed now. Some here have suggested the farmer was 'trespassing' on that neighbour's land - that's BS. I would suspect that the guy waiting at the end of the lane was likely the owner of that land where the altercation took place.

I agree with those who have said the video we are seeing is an edited version of the whole thing. I can't help but wonder who was waiting for them at the gate at the end of the lane we see just before the video 'ends'. And I wonder what possible conversation took place there. I hope the police got the whole video (but I doubt it).

I also suspect this wasn't the first time those snowmobiler guys went on private land without permission, nor was it the first time the farmer has had to deal with such people. I wouldn't be surprised at all if those snowmobilers had been on that land before. Likely after a long winter the farmer had just simply had enough and unfortunately but necessarily took matters into his own hands. As I inferred earlier in this thread, if that farmer had had a hickory axe handle in hand I suspect most here would be praising him. And I also suspect, due to the language and mannerisms of the snowmobilers, that he wouldn't have gotten off without injury. I think the presence of that firearm kept things from being worse.

If this breaks down to rural farmers vs urban sledders, I can see landowners who now allow access for marked snowmobile trails to rethink this kindness.

As far as the rcmp advising that Sk land must be posted before charges can be laid (as heard on cbc)... well I guess the police are always right.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

SSS

Ralphie had it right!

The helmets could pass for rocks, but
won't the handlebars kinda stickout?

[praire hunter]

charge both parties, and let a judge decide who is right and who is wrong.

[steelsoldier3]

I can understand both points of view... Both sides did things that should not have happened and I'm sure they are both a little more conscious of that now.

Glad nothing serious happened.

[jungleboy]

you guys better pick up the pace. I see Snow and mud forum has 19 pages dedicated to this subject

[beltburner]

You're on my land so you deserve to DIE!!!! That seems to be the attitude of so many posts on here. All I can say is what the hell is wrong with you guys?? Yes the sledders are also at fault but injuring or killing someone for hurting your dirt or even a fence?? Gee I wonder why the government is cracking down on gun laws when they read such nice forums as this. This should have been locked a long time ago.

[elkhunter11]

Yes the sledders are also at fault but injuring or killing someone for hurting your dirt or even a fence?

So who was hurt or killed?

[norwestalta]

It is not a rural landowner vs sledder issue. It is property owners vs trespassers. I can't imagine anybody being happy with strangers on their property with out permission.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by beltburner

You're on my land so you deserve to DIE!!!! That seems to be the attitude of so many posts on here. All I can say is what the hell is wrong with you guys?? Yes the sledders are also at fault but injuring or killing someone for hurting your dirt or even a fence?? Gee I wonder why the government is cracking down on gun laws when they read such nice forums as this. This should have been locked a long time ago.

Who was injured or killed?

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If in the opinion of the RCMP, and the crown prosecutor, the landowner actually threatened the snowmobilers with the shotgun, he would have been arrested very quickly, rather than still be waiting for the prosecutor to decide whether or not to lay charges.

In your opinion.

You should take a look at what exactly defines assault in Canada.
A spoken word is not required.
Basically anyone who makes you feel reasonably threatened by word, act or gesture. That gun did pass over those guys at least twice and he did act aggresivly and actually strike an individual while armed.

Further you should also consider the guys stated intent.... after the fact.

There are plenty of good reasons not to rush to charges and no need to hurry.

The crown has a lot of perogative here.

They must consider what is in the publics interest and whether or not a guilty act was committed with respect to both the landowner and the sledders.

If we look at the testimonies on tape... it is clear that one did commit a guilty act and the others might not have.

Now.. they need to decide how best to proceed in the interest of all and consider whether or not anyone is actually demanding charges or counter charges.

My thought is that the Crown is looking for ways to not wreck an otherwise good guy and model citizens life over a short moment where he acted out of character...but if he did the same thing again this weekend.... he'd be in the crowbar motel that same day.

Thats why we call it a justice system not a legal system.

[beltburner]

In this case only a sled got hurt. I'm talking about all the crazy comments from people on this post. Putting up single strand barbed wire etc. It's all good till a couple kids having a good time get decapitated.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by beltburner

In this case only a sled got hurt. I'm talking about all the crazy comments from people on this post. Putting up single strand barbed wire etc. It's all good till a couple kids having a good time get decapitated.

I guess you missed the posts saying they would have run over the farmer when he touched the sled.

Going by your user name I am assuming "touch my sled and you die" is OK with you.

[calgarysledguy]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

you guys better pick up the pace. I see Snow and mud forum has 19 pages dedicated to this subject

Lol I know. Im finding myself reading this on both forums. If the farmer gets away with pulling out a gun in this situation I guess ill pull out one on the next guy who cuts across my lawn past the shoveled sidewalk to pick up his mail and slap him in the face. Same with the guy that sticks a flyer under the wiper of my truck at the mall parking lot or the guy that squeegee my windshield at an intersection.

If you think the farmer should get away with this Get Bent. These guys could have been out doing B&Es or something much worse. And if they did do something other then just sled across this guys field to deserve this well then they should be punished buy the cops . Im sure we'll here the charges on the news one day

This could have been handled much better.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by calgarysledguy

Lol I know. Im finding myself reading this on both forums. If the farmer gets away with pulling out a gun in this situation I guess ill pull out one on the next guy who cuts across my lawn past the shoveled sidewalk to pick up his mail and slap him in the face. Same with the guy that sticks a flyer under the wiper of my truck at the mall parking lot or the guy that squeegee my windshield at an intersection.

If you think the farmer should get away with this Get Bent. These guys could have been out doing B&Es or something much worse. And if they did do something other then just sled across this guys field to deserve this well then they should be punished. Im sure we'll here the charges on the news one day

This could have been handled much better.

If the guy went across your lawn frequently, damaging your grass, and causing your dog to go a little wild in the yard every time he did, I can believe you probably would confront him. Not likely with a gun, that is wrong, but I bet you would confront him, and then when he started waving his arms and swearing at you, are you really sure you wouldn't give him a little cuff to the side of the head?

[expmler]

Originally Posted by calgarysledguy

Lol I know. Im finding myself reading this on both forums. If the farmer gets away with pulling out a gun in this situation I guess ill pull out one on the next guy who cuts across my lawn past the shoveled sidewalk to pick up his mail and slap him in the face. Same with the guy that sticks a flyer under the wiper of my truck at the mall parking lot or the guy that squeegee my windshield at an intersection.

If you think the farmer should get away with this Get Bent. These guys could have been out doing B&Es or something much worse. And if they did do something other then just sled across this guys field to deserve this well then they should be punished. Im sure we'll here the charges on the news one day

This could have been handled much better.

So I guess you are open to a couple country boys doing some sledding on your lawn or maybe grabbing a 12 pack, lawn chairs and a bbq and setting up on your driveway for an afternoon of relaxation.

Pretty sure men with guns would show up.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by expmler

So I guess you are open to a couple country boys doing some sledding on your lawn or maybe grabbing a 12 pack, lawn chairs and a bbq and setting up on your driveway for an afternoon of relaxation.

Pretty sure men with guns would show up.

I sure would like a nice spot to service my equipment. Maybe fix some oil leaks. Should be good to be close to a parts place. No permission required I'll just show up so don't wait up for me.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by expmler

So I guess you are open to a couple country boys doing some sledding on your lawn or maybe grabbing a 12 pack, lawn chairs and a bbq and setting up on your driveway for an afternoon of relaxation.

Pretty sure men with guns would show up.

That is not a fair comparison to what actually happened.

Using the same sort of logic...would you be alright with a guy storming out of his house...armed and smacking you in the melon if you drove down his street realized you made a wrong turn so decided to use his driveway to turn around in and while so doing leaked a bit of oil or left some tire marks upon it and caused the dogs to bark?

Of course not.

Now... if he drove up on the lawn...turned a few donuts, crushed the flower beds and spun a rock through the window... we might all feel differently but again...that is not what happened.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

In your opinion.

You should take a look at what exactly defines assault in Canada.
A spoken word is not required.
Basically anyone who makes you feel reasonably threatened by word, act or gesture. That gun did pass over those guys at least twice and he did act aggresivly and actually strike an individual while armed.

Further you should also consider the guys stated intent.... after the fact.

There are plenty of good reasons not to rush to charges and no need to hurry.

The crown has a lot of perogative here.

They must consider what is in the publics interest and whether or not a guilty act was committed with respect to both the landowner and the sledders.

If we look at the testimonies on tape... it is clear that one did commit a guilty act and the others might not have.

Now.. they need to decide how best to proceed in the interest of all and consider whether or not anyone is actually demanding charges or counter charges.

My thought is that the Crown is looking for ways to not wreck an otherwise good guy and model citizens life over a short moment where he acted out of character...but if he did the same thing again this weekend.... he'd be in the crowbar motel that same day.

Thats why we call it a justice system not a legal system.

Let's look at the simple facts.

1. this incident occurred last month.

2, No charges have resulted.

In this day and age when the RCMP and the prosecutors are anxious to trample on firearms owners at every opportunity, the fact that no charges have resulted, makes it clear that the so called "assault while armed" isn't so clear in the eyes of those who enforce our laws.

As for Canada having a "justice system" , rather than a "legal system", get a grip on reality! We don't have C-68 to provide justice to Canadians. If there really was a justice system, the High River incident would have resulted in charges against the RCMP, and Redford would be under investigation for her misuse of the Alberta taxpayers money.