Snowmobile trespass

[Lone_Wolf]

You can take the most mild mannered person, put them on a sled or ATV, and suddenly they own the world. You can tell the landowner has been dealing with this issue for some time and his frustration finally boiled over.

The frustration that lead him to confront the sledders and inform them of their wrong doing was not overboard. But he should have left the gun at home. That was overboard.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by riden

Does anyone know the fine for trespass in Sask?

I don't think they have a fine. I think you get cursed at, slapped upside the head and threatened with a shotgun by an alpaca farmer. But I'm not 100 % sure. There may be a bill collector involved as well.

Hey you can't make this stuff up. I seen it on the internet.

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Was CASTLE DOCTRINE brought in to Canada when I was in Hawaii?

Were we taken over by TEXAS?


It doesn't matter how anyone on the board 'feels' about trespassing, this guy pulled a shotgun on 2 snowmobilers, hit 1 of them and kicked the snowmobile.


He was wrong. Maybe he could/should have charged them with trespassing on his I would assume posted land, but he went way too far. They should have not gone on his land, but if that gun was loaded someone could have paid the ultimate price.

If this was 'your' son or daughter or father on the sled would you feel the same way?

Well said!

[Mb-MBR]

He says he had no intention of using the gun but by him kicking the sled, I would say he was the aggressor and had every intention to start something. What would have happened if the guy stood in front of his sled and maybe pushed the guy??? Not saying the trespassing is ok and justified.

I say the cops should ask for the gopro footage and if they have enough evidence, charge all parties.

[Speckle55]

just some points to consider

1. gun was never pointed at them in a threatening manner
2. Snowmobiler was swearing at landowner
3.Snowmobiler got off sled and had hands raised and confronted landowner
4.Snowmobiler was revving engine and moving forward
5. 2 Snowmobilers
6. other truck at gate with witness
7. Trespass is definite
8. should never happened
9.Citizen arrest hold till authorities come if the hadn't left immediately

David

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by bhguy

our elk farm

Originally Posted by bhguy

I'd never post personal info on any site why would anyone ever do that?

How many elk farms are in Alberta?

You are not anonymous.

[srp71]

I grew up on a farm within an hour of Capital City.Trust me when I say there are many people that think that just because they are in the country they can go where they please .Until you've spent your time fixing cut fences,filling in ruts in that first year alfalfa field,stood scratching your head while looking at an area the size of a football field that has been totally destroyed by some punks doing donuts in the field maybe you really won't understand.Maybe landowners should start going into the city and start plowing up people's front lawns.Betcha the comments would be different."just kids on snowmobiles"maybe thier parents shoulda did a better job teaching them respect.So tell me Ken,if I come to your house and start doing brake stands on some of your new pavement,are you gonna come running out and ask me nice to stop and come in and have a hot chocolate and sing kumbya ?? Or you gona drag me out the window of my truck by the hair and teach me what for???The problem here is the lack of respect for others.And the jack wad with the gun.But he's probly cooked his own goose now anyway.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

just some points to consider

1. gun was never pointed at them in a threatening manner
2. Snowmobiler was swearing at landowner
3.Snowmobiler got off sled and had hands raised and confronted landowner
4.Snowmobiler was revving engine and moving forward
5. 2 Snowmobilers
6. other truck at gate with witness
7. Trespass is definite
8. should never happened

David

Sheesh, logic is something missed by many

For those who don't know, Sask does not require "Plated" ATV use in their province, no registration required..

Tough to report actually, and don't kid yourself those who push the envelope understand it's near impossible to describe a couple "peeps" wearing helmets on ATV's trespassing..

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Lone_Wolf

You can take the most mild mannered person, put them on a sled or ATV, and suddenly they own the world. You can tell the landowner has been dealing with this issue for some time and his frustration finally boiled over.

The frustration that lead him to confront the sledders and inform them of their wrong doing was not overboard. But he should have left the gun at home. That was overboard.

Prime example!
I little yutube interlude courtesy of Walt Disney's Goofy!
Cat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZgiVicpZGk

[Mekanik]

Ain't nobody right in this one boys and girls.

Charge them all.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

What is a land owner to do?

If a man can no longer protect his land and his livelihood then we have given control away.

The guy who commits the offensive action has more rights than the guy defending against those actions.

[srp71]

Oh one more thing.Im not singling anyone out personally but rather what was said.If that had been my kids on them sleds this wouldn't haven happened.They've been taught better.Theyve been taught to respect and to earn everything they get or have .Not given a sense of entitlement that they can run rampant and expect not to be held accountable.

[pikeslayer22]

Let me get this straight...Some of you are condoning this guy pulling a gun on another human being?

[.257Weatherby]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I know what I would do.

If I got away without incident it would be straight to the RCMP with the video, asking the RCMP to pursue charges of uttering threats, common assault, assault with a weapon, pointing a firearm, use of firearm in commission of an offense, intimidation, unlawful confinement, threat of bodily harm, damage to personal property.

Then I would contact a Collection Agency and have them go after him for the damages to the snowmobile. (hood)

THEN I would go to the media.

Guys and Gals, this thread went on for 128 posts on that cgnutter site before it was locked .

I hope the discussion can and will remain civil here, you guys are more mature and adult like..by the way when did I become an adult?

While the landowner has every right to be pssied, he did escalate it way and beyond
the need for the gun.

He could have blocked the road as he did with his truck and have a camera to record the actions of the sledders as did the sledders to record their run.

As for the trespassing bit sports user groups know that ignorance is no excuse either.

Ken, you mentioned a collection agency and a few items to after, but you missed the prized alpacas he was trying to save from being stressed

Best Regards,
Rob

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by srp71

So tell me Ken,if I come to your house and start doing brake stands on some of your new pavement,are you gonna come running out and ask me nice to stop and come in and have a hot chocolate and sing kumbya ?? Or you gona drag me out the window of my truck by the hair and teach me what for???The problem here is the lack of respect for others.And the jack wad with the gun.But he's probly cooked his own goose now anyway.

I have cameras, and I like flying south, you do the math.



Since we are being funny, if you try to steal my cheeseburger out of my van I am going to grab my cane and remember my chun-king-do training. Or was that dun-king-do(nuts) training

[Lone_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

just some points to consider

1. gun was never pointed at them in a threatening manner
2. Snowmobiler was swearing at landowner
3.Snowmobiler got off sled and had hands raised and confronted landowner
4.Snowmobiler was revving engine and moving forward
5. 2 Snowmobilers
6. other truck at gate with witness
7. Trespass is definite
8. should never happened
9.Citizen arrest hold till authorities come if the hadn't left immediately

David

Why cloud the issue with facts?

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Prime example!
I little yutube interlude courtesy of Walt Disney's Goofy!
Cat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZgiVicpZGk

LOL, good stuff! I had to save that one.

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

Let me get this straight...Some of you are condoning this guy pulling a gun on another human being?

I don't think anyone in here has openly condoned that. Nor do I think anyone has condoned the fact the two sledders had invaded/were invading private property. So far it's been a civil discussion regarding who exactly is in the wrong.

[elkhunter11]

From what I saw, the snowmobiler was actually more the aggressor. Even though the landowner had a shotgun, the snowmobiler was approaching the landowner while swearing at him. Obviously, the snowmobiler was not at all afraid of the firearm. Further, neither snowmobiler thought that they had done anything wrong, so trespassing obviously means nothing to them.
I did not see the landowner point the shotgun at anyone, or threaten to use the shotgun, at any time.
I for one would not have been carrying a shotgun, but I certainly would not have approached those two snowmobilers without backup of some kind.
If charges are to result, the snowmobilers should be included.

[srp71]

Since we are being funny, if you try to steal my cheeseburger out of my van I am going to grab my cane and remember my chun-king-do training. Or was that dun-king-do(nuts) training [/QUOTE]

Well if you got the cheeseburgers I'll bring the hot chocolate!!!!!

[Deer Hunter]

Taking the law into your own hands with weapons just because someone has wronged you is pathetic. Didn't Weibo Ludwig try that?

If you pull a gun out and come towards someone kicking their machine, you better be prepared to use it. The guy was lucky the sledders weren't armed, or didn't take the shotgun from him, and finish what he started.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by srp71

Since we are being funny, if you try to steal my cheeseburger out of my van I am going to grab my cane and remember my chun-king-do training. Or was that dun-king-do(nuts) training

Well if you got the cheeseburgers I'll bring the hot chocolate!!!!![/QUOTE]

Done! Let's go fishing!!

Great pacific salmon lodge June 18-21

(was that shameless?)

[70chevy]

Now this guy is serious

[Mistagin]

Not too bright bringing out the shotgun, but then I suppose none of us were there and none of us know the background either.

Not too bright of the snowmobilers either, they sure were aggressive with their language. I wonder who was waiting for them at the gate at the end of the video, I'm sure it wasn't RCMP.

Guess we'll have to wait to see who and what charges will be laid.

I also wonder what ya'll would be saying about the old guy if he'd been carrying a hickory axe handle instead of the gun?

[elkhunter11]

I also wonder what ya'll would be saying about the old guy if he'd been carrying a hickory axe handle instead of the gun?

Probably an entirely different attitude from many people. He would be the good guy, and the snowmobilers would be the bad guys.

[dgl1948]

For those who don't know, Sask does not require "Plated" ATV use in their province, no registration required..

Not true. In Sask your sled has to be plated to be on public land or trails. You can only ride private land with permission to be without plates.

They have no need to be on private property. Sask has hundreds of miles with sled trails. There is also a road allowance around every section or every 2 sections, depending on where you are in the province.

There is a specific Snowmobile Act in Sask that requires you to have landowner permission in order to ride his land.

The Supreme Court has ruled out the posting of private land. They have said that "private land is just that, private"

Was the landowner right, no and he will have to deal with that. The problem we have in Sask. is winter crops being damaged, spring and summer crops being damaged fences cut by sledders and ATV's. I have caught them riding through my tame hay and you can call the RCMP and they will do nothing. These were not kids riding sleds, and they should feel the weight of the law as well. If the landowner losses his PAL maybe they should lose a drivers licence as well.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

Not true. In Sask your sled has to be plated to be on public land or trails. You can only ride private land with permission to be without plates.

They have no need to be on private property. Sask has hundreds of miles with sled trails. There is also a road allowance around every section or every 2 sections, depending on where you are in the province.

There is a specific Snowmobile Act in Sask that requires you to have landowner permission in order to ride his land.

The Supreme Court has ruled out the posting of private land. They have said that "private land is just that, private"

Was the landowner right, no and he will have to deal with that. The problem we have in Sask. is winter crops being damaged, spring and summer crops being damaged fences cut by sledders and ATV's. I have caught them riding through my tame hay and you can call the RCMP and they will do nothing. These were not kids riding sleds, and they should feel the weight of the law as well. If the landowner losses his PAL maybe they should lose a drivers licence as well.

Thanks for the clarification on plating in Sask, I thought it was not required on ATV's there when I last looked into it.

Your logic for loosing PAL vs Drivers Licence is GOLDEN...

[Kaz Dog]

The sledders were in the wrong to trespass, assuming they were! They should be charged with breaking the law, with their own video.

The landowner/farmer/alpaca breeder should have brought a camera and a bat instead of a shotgun, let us all see how this plays out........

To be on the side of the landowner/farmer/alpaca breeder: I wonder if he had grown tired of the complaining to the RCMP about snowmobile trespassers and his concern with stress to his livestock? I wonder if the RCMP told him there is little they could do (at all or without "proof")? I wonder if the Justice Department informed the RCMP that trespass allegations are hard or impossible to prosecute because there is no evidence? I wonder if it takes a guy "at the end of his rope", with a shotgun in hand (loaded or unloaded), to get trespassers to go to the media/RCMP with a video to show a "redneck farmer" with a gun? I do not agree with his bringing a shotgun out to confront these guys, but no harm was done, and as upset as he was, he never threatened either person by pointing the gun at them. I figure he will still be charged.

To be on the side of the sledders: As a sledder myself, I can not say anything in their defense until I am able to see the 15-45 minutes of video before the confrontation with the landowner. Coming from Saskatchewan, I know of frustrations farmers have with sledders trespassing. I do not care to hear a sledders' reason for being on farmland he does not have permission to be on. Clubs there have negotiated with farmers to place groomed trails across their private land, and loose this access when ignorant sledders trespass off of the trail/on other parts of the farmland.

There is more to this story then is seen on the short video clip here, let's see how the RCMP/Justice Department of Saskatchewan handles this going forward.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by srp71

I grew up on a farm within an hour of Capital City.Trust me when I say there are many people that think that just because they are in the country they can go where they please .Until you've spent your time fixing cut fences,filling in ruts in that first year alfalfa field,stood scratching your head while looking at an area the size of a football field that has been totally destroyed by some punks doing donuts in the field maybe you really won't understand.Maybe landowners should start going into the city and start plowing up people's front lawns.Betcha the comments would be different."just kids on snowmobiles"maybe thier parents shoulda did a better job teaching them respect.So tell me Ken,if I come to your house and start doing brake stands on some of your new pavement,are you gonna come running out and ask me nice to stop and come in and have a hot chocolate and sing kumbya ?? Or you gona drag me out the window of my truck by the hair and teach me what for???The problem here is the lack of respect for others.And the jack wad with the gun.But he's probly cooked his own goose now anyway.

What a great idea....we had a fellow in a jet boat saying some very disrespectful things to my wife one year [river runs through middle of our property] and honest to jones if I could have found out where he lived I was going to park my truck in front of his house on city land and give him a taste of his own medicine...and then maybe do a little dance on his head...probably just as well nobody in the jet boat community would rat him out.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Thanks for the clarification on plating in Sask, I thought it was not required on ATV's there when I last looked into it.

Your logic for loosing PAL vs Drivers Licence is GOLDEN...

ATV's no, sleds yes.

[beltburner]

I understand the farmers anger but he's playing a dangerous game. Myself and many others I know usually have a shorty shotgun with us when riding/sledding. That could have got real ugly real fast.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by beltburner

I understand the farmers anger but he's playing a dangerous game. Myself and many others I know usually have a shorty shotgun with us when riding/sledding. That could have got real ugly real fast.

I'm learning here.

You carry while sledding,, and if you were confronted on private property you would have what?