Snowmobile trespass

[Kaz Dog]

Originally Posted by beltburner

I understand the farmers anger but he's playing a dangerous game. Myself and many others I know usually have a shorty shotgun with us when riding/sledding. That could have got real ugly real fast.

I hope you're joking about carrying a shorty shotgun while sledding.......what you going to shoot, Frosty the snowman?.......LOL

[TyreeUM]

He should pay for any damages he caused to the sled, they should be charged with trespassing. Lesson learned should be stay off private land unless you have permission, end of story.

[norwestalta]

How do you not know you're on private property?
Cause and effect.
I would expect each and everyone of us to do the same because the Mounties aren't going to help you. How are they going to catch two guys on skidoos? I really don't think that a camera is a very equalizer. So the landowner is a bad guy because he won't tolerate trespassing? How many places did they cross before they got to his place? If they had permission to cross the other land they'd know they didn't have permission to cross his.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

just some points to consider

1. gun was never pointed at them in a threatening manner
2. Snowmobiler was swearing at landowner
3.Snowmobiler got off sled and had hands raised and confronted landowner
4.Snowmobiler was revving engine and moving forward
5. 2 Snowmobilers
6. other truck at gate with witness
7. Trespass is definite
8. should never happened
9.Citizen arrest hold till authorities come if the hadn't left immediately

David

Finally.........someone who actually listened to what was said, and watched the video. I agree with you, but you can not take a gun (loaded or not), to a confrontation like this. Expectations are if you are carrying it, you may use it, and the whole level of an angry discussion, can change into something deadly in a second. Trespassing is one of the biggest evils out there today, but no one should die for it.

Unfortunately trespassers like this are all to common, it's mentioned on here on almost a daily basis. Just look at how many members on here don't really even consider trespassing a real crime, "whats the big deal" is the battle cry of the ignorant trespasser.

If you believe they didn't know they were on private land, most likely you display the same actions when you are out "there", and find nothing wrong with it......NO RESPECT.

[Bolete]

Originally Posted by bobalong

Finally.........someone who actually listened to what was said, and watched the video. I agree with you, but you can not take a gun (loaded or not), to a confrontation like this. Expectations are if you are carrying it, you may use it, and the whole level of an angry discussion, can change into something deadly in a second.

What happens when you are hunting our own land and happen to come across trespassers? You are obviously armed - can you confront them in that situation? I'm sure that happens multiple times every year.

I'm sure there is a difference between being armed (rifle slung over shoulder) and threatening or pointing a firearm.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Bolete

What happens when you are hunting our own land and happen to come across trespassers? You are obviously armed - can you confront them in that situation? I'm sure that happens multiple times every year.

I'm sure there is a difference between being armed (rifle slung over shoulder) and threatening or pointing a firearm.

ha left his property with his gun for the confrontation.

[Ken07AOVette]

After watching the 2nd video, I realized a couple things.

1- he had his finger on the trigger. He meant business.
2- the one he hit, it must have been extremely difficult not to react and beat the living hell out of him, while of course waiting for the RCMP to arrive and take over.

More kudos to the sledders for keeping cool minds.

[Bolete]

Originally Posted by Gust

ha left his property with his gun for the confrontation.

I wasn't speaking to the snowmobile incident - just a question in general.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Bolete

I wasn't speaking to the snowmobile incident - just a question in general.

My Bad.

[Ken07AOVette]

Did the gopro save a homidide or 2?

Did the wild farmer see it?

They stick out like a police light, I bet he knew it was there.

Really interested to hear the follow up on this.

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Did the gopro save a homidide or 2?

Did the wild farmer see it?

They stick out like a police light, I bet he knew it was there.

Really interested to hear the follow up on this.

Broad daylight, bystander in a separate vehicle...if he was intending to actually shoot someone, I highly doubt the go-pro would have stopped him

[220swifty]

Originally Posted by Kaz Dog

I hope you're joking about carrying a shorty shotgun while sledding.......what you going to shoot, Frosty the snowman?.......LOL

If it's legal, (which it is) why do you care?

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Bolete

What happens when you are hunting our own land and happen to come across trespassers? You are obviously armed - can you confront them in that situation? I'm sure that happens multiple times every year.

I'm sure there is a difference between being armed (rifle slung over shoulder) and threatening or pointing a firearm.

I would still confront them, and sling the gun over my shoulder if it wasn't there already, might ease a bit of the tension. I have been with my cousin when we confronted trespassers on his land. We spotted them from his quarter beside, went back to the truck and drove over to them. They had left his gate open as well. We had our guns with us, but never really considered a gun being part of it.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

just some points to consider

1. gun was never pointed at them in a threatening manner
2. Snowmobiler was swearing at landowner
3.Snowmobiler got off sled and had hands raised and confronted landowner
4.Snowmobiler was revving engine and moving forward
5. 2 Snowmobilers
6. other truck at gate with witness
7. Trespass is definite
8. should never happened
9.Citizen arrest hold till authorities come if the hadn't left immediately

David

Citizens arrest for what?
The only thing that anyone could be rightly arrested for at that point was assault and that would have been the sledders arresting the other fella.

[elkhunter11]

More kudos to the sledders for keeping cool minds.

So swearing at someone while advancing towards them them is keeping a cool mind?

What I see is two trespassers that could care less who owns the land that they are using, and they are aggressive towards anyone that attempts to hold them responsible for their trespassing.

Did the landowner go overboard by carrying a shotgun? Quite possibly he did, but I did not see him threaten anyone, or point the shotgun at anyone. If the landowner had threatened the snowmobilers with the shotgun, the prosecutor would not still be deciding whether or not, to lay charges.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So swearing at someone while advancing towards them them is keeping a cool mind?

What I see is two trespassers that could care less who owns the land that they are using, and they are aggressive towards anyone that attempts to hold them responsible for their trespassing.

Did the landowner go overboard by carrying a shotgun? Quite possibly he did, but I did not see him threaten anyone, or point the shotgun at anyone. If the landowner had threatened the snowmobilers with the shotgun, the prosecutor would not still be deciding whether or not, to lay charges.

You better watch the video again

Unless he is Chuck Norris reincarnate or the 2 guys are senior citizens, if the shotgun was truly empty they could have fed it to him. If someone had hit me like that while armed or most anyone here it would have ended differently.

[Speckle55]

here is your answer Citizen’s Arrest

he had just trespassed on his property and then his neighbor

also as posters have said guns on snowmobilers is common

David

Canada[edit]

Federal[edit]

Canada's blanket arrest authorities for crimes or violations of federal statutes are found in the Criminal Code. In Canada, a criminal offence is any offence that is created by a federal statute -- there are no provincial "crimes".

Criminal offences are divided into three groups: Indictable, Dual Procedure, and Summary Conviction. For the purposes of arrest, dual procedure offences are considered to be indictable.

The Criminal Code provisions related to citizen arrests were changed in 2012, by the Citizen’s Arrest and Self-defence Act.[11] As a consequence, it is now possible to make a citizen's arrest in Canada in circumstances where a "reasonable" amount of time has lapsed between the commission of a property-related offence and the arrest.[12]


CRIMINAL CODE[13]


Arrest without warrant by any person
494. (1) Any one may arrest without warrant
(a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or(b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes (i) has committed a criminal offence, and(ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person.

Arrest by owner, etc., of property
(2) The owner or a person in lawful possession of property, or a person authorized by the owner or by a person in lawful possession of property, may arrest a person without a warrant if they find them committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property and
(a) they make the arrest at that time; or(b) they make the arrest within a reasonable time after the offence is committed and they believe on reasonable grounds that it is not feasible in the circumstances for a peace officer to make the arrest.
Delivery to peace officer
(3) Any one other than a peace officer who arrests a person without warrant shall forthwith deliver the person to a peace officer.

For greater certainty
(4) For greater certainty, a person who is authorized to make an arrest under this section is a person who is authorized by law to do so for the purposes of section 25.

Provincial[edit]

There are several arrest authorities found through the various provincial statutes. The most notable citizen's arrest authority in Ontario is found in the Trespass to Property Act, but there are others found in the Highway Traffic Act, the Liquor Licence Act, and many others.


TRESPASS TO PROPERTY ACT[14]


Arrest without warrant on premises
9. (1) A police officer, or the occupier of premises, or a person authorized by the occupier may arrest without warrant any person he or she believes on reasonable and probable grounds to be on the premises in contravention of section 2.Delivery to police officer

(2) Where the person who makes an arrest under subsection (1) is not a police officer, he or she shall promptly call for the assistance of a police officer and give the person arrested into the custody of the police officer.

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Citizens arrest for what?
The only thing that anyone could be rightly arrested for at that point was assault and that would have been the sledders arresting the other fella.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by beltburner

I understand the farmers anger but he's playing a dangerous game. Myself and many others I know usually have a shorty shotgun with us when riding/sledding. That could have got real ugly real fast.

So its OK for you to have a firearm, but not OK for someone who is legitimately there who might have been coyote hunting? The 'dangerous game' has you equally ante'd into that particular jackpot. (I'll assume the ranch fellow had a co-operative relationship with his neighbor allowing him access, at least most rural folk that I know do). That information also brings up a good point: most rural landowners posting in this thread have noted that the trespass calls are ignored by the police, but you don't often see the police ignoring firearms calls. "The trespassers have firearms" will probably get a much swifter response time to the complaint.

If the rancher was on his own land, the sledders should have been forced to walk off the land and back to their trucks. The machines stay put as evidence for the RCMP to deal with the removal of. The longer they're in evidence the greater the inconvenience to the ignorant trespassing D-B's. I'll note I've not watched the video yet due to being on my phone so I can't comment on the presence of the firearm. On his own land I'd see no issue (many legitimate reasons to have it present) but on somebody else's property I can't really support it to the same extent.

[Kaz Dog]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

If it's legal, (which it is) why do you care?

Didn't say it was illegal, but if you are not a trapper, I do not understand the logic carrying a shorty shotgun while sledding?

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Kaz Dog

Didn't say it was illegal, but if you are not a trapper, I do not understand the logic carrying a shorty shotgun while sledding?

Well you never know there could be a moose on the trail that needs dispatching.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Kaz Dog

Didn't say it was illegal, but if you are not a trapper, I do not understand the logic carrying a shorty shotgun while sledding?

target practice? 3 shots in the air if your alone and in an accident? peice of mind if you breakdown in the bush and have to walk out? rabbit stew? doesnt really matter when u think about it.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

target practice? 3 shots in the air if your alone and in an accident? peice of mind if you breakdown in the bush and have to walk out? rabbit stew? doesnt really matter when u think about it.

They frown on that when you are in Revelstoke

Might be ok in Valemount, bunch of drug smoking hippies

[tri777]

Absolutly horrible video edited,should of showed me minute before&after incident!
With the pathetic view i get, I'm 1000% with homeowner!

[nelsonob1]

The farmer certainly has every right to be angry with the trespass but not smart bringing the shotgun with him. My guess is that since this is all over CBC he will lose his PAL.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

You better watch the video again

Unless he is Chuck Norris reincarnate or the 2 guys are senior citizens, if the shotgun was truly empty they could have fed it to him. If someone had hit me like that while armed or most anyone here it would have ended differently.

So you feel that it's appropriate to trespass on private property, and then approach the landowner while swearing at him, when he confronts you?

[tri777]

I hoping the farmer saves his PAL licence by telling
that he just happend to out hunting just when the obnoxious
loud sledders came upon his spot,and scaring off his game.

[Lone_Wolf]

Originally Posted by tri777

Absolutly horrible video edited,should of showed me minute before&after incident!

Agreed. I would VERY interested to see what took place after the video as it does appear they are confronted by another person. It's fair to say they had not just trespassed on one property that day but many properties (and I'm sure times before that).

In my honest opinion, the two sledders come off as a pair of obnoxious punks in the video. And also in my opinion they knew they were trespassing and are now trying to come off as innocent recreationists.

Other than brandishing the firearm I applaud the landowner. If your trespassing on my property I'd confront you as well. If you ride up on your sled to within a foot of me I'd kick it as well. If you get off your sled and approach me with your arms up in the air I'd strike you in the head as well.

[brownbomber]

Trespassing is a pretty good way to get yourself a black eye in my parts. Know a couple kids that were "ripping it up" cutting fences, leaving gates open, chasing livestock etc. Got spoken to, although adults had parents talked to. In the end it was best if they had listened but sometimes the hard way is the only way some learn.

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by brownbomber

Trespassing is a pretty good way to get yourself a black eye in my parts. Know a couple kids that were "ripping it up" cutting fences, leaving gates open, chasing livestock etc. Got spoken to, although adults had parents talked to. In the end it was best if they had listened but sometimes the hard way is the only way some learn.

Not as hard as a length of barbwire strung 3 feet off the ground.

[ChrisHntr]

Originally Posted by Lone_Wolf

Agreed. I would VERY interested to see what took place after the video as it does appear they are confronted by another person. It's fair to say they had not just trespassed on one property that day but many properties (and I'm sure times before that).

In my honest opinion, the two sledders come off as a pair of obnoxious punks in the video. And also in my opinion they knew they were trespassing and are now trying to come off as innocent recreationists.

Other than brandishing the firearm I applaud the landowner. If your trespassing on my property I'd confront you as well. If you ride up on your sled to within a foot of me I'd kick it as well. If you get off your sled and approach me with your arms up in the air I'd strike you in the head as well.

I couldn't agree more. As many sledders have stated, several carry firearms with them. I wouldn't approach anybody trespassing in a rural area without a means of defense.