NOT a CCW thread

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

So you are saying CCW'ers are going to police manners with lethal force?

Episode 1, Ruggy: Mr. Manners

"Hmmm, there's a guy spitting, I better go confront him,, oh it's chew, he gets a pass. Oh look there's a fat woman and I can see her thong underwear, I better flash my gun and tell her to pull up her pants. I TOLD MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOUR TO OIL THE SPRINGS ON HIS KIDS TRAMPOLINE, WHERE'S HIS MANNERS? That doofus just cut the line, well I'll show him!"

The other day you chastised Beedude for using a single instance to explain a point,, you said something to the effect of singular incidents aren't good arguments. Yet most of your posts are of these singular incidents.

Now I see where you are coming from.

You call beating and stabbing women merely bad manners and equate it to cutting in line.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

Now I see where you are coming from.

You call beating and stabbing women merely bad manners and equate it to cutting in line.

Your post is a non sequitur. Read back and then read in order of the posts. If you put my post behind rugs post then yes it would be a caustic statement.

[Scott h]

Posted by 260

"My bottom line regarding carry in "public places" is that I am not concerned about criminals or wild animals ---my concern is more about the potential for "normal" folks to get silly if they have a bad day, get a bit impared, take exception to my driving..... My world is not a scary place, but I would be uncomfortable with the idea that anyone can pack anywhere. Sorry, but of thousands of students I've seen go through school, I know there are some pretty unpredictable folks out there.
I have no issue with folks using any legal firearm on their own property."

Couldn't agree more. How many guys on here have blown their lids after a few too many and ended up with bloody knuckles or a broken nose? On the other hand if you pull a gun your life will probably be ruined however it turns out.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Posted by 260

"My bottom line regarding carry in "public places" is that I am not concerned about criminals or wild animals ---my concern is more about the potential for "normal" folks to get silly if they have a bad day, get a bit impared, take exception to my driving..... My world is not a scary place, but I would be uncomfortable with the idea that anyone can pack anywhere. Sorry, but of thousands of students I've seen go through school, I know there are some pretty unpredictable folks out there.
I have no issue with folks using any legal firearm on their own property."

Couldn't agree more. How many guys on here have blown their lids after a few too many and ended up with bloody knuckles or a broken nose? On the other hand if you pull a gun your life will probably be ruined however it turns out.

I've "blown my lid" before. Lots of times I've had a gun in the truck too. Never once did I feel compelled to take out my gun. Or a knife, or a pipe wrench, or a shovel or any other weapon.

In fact, I grew up in a time and place where it was fairly common for dust ups to occur. Most people carried guns in their trucks as a matter of course. Can't recall a single shooting.

And if we look at the stats...these types of incidents are incredibly rare even in the gun "crazy" states. Most shootings in the states as in Canada are gang related.

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Posted by 260

"My bottom line regarding carry in "public places" is that I am not concerned about criminals or wild animals ---my concern is more about the potential for "normal" folks to get silly if they have a bad day, get a bit impared, take exception to my driving..... My world is not a scary place, but I would be uncomfortable with the idea that anyone can pack anywhere. Sorry, but of thousands of students I've seen go through school, I know there are some pretty unpredictable folks out there.
I have no issue with folks using any legal firearm on their own property."

Couldn't agree more. How many guys on here have blown their lids after a few too many and ended up with bloody knuckles or a broken nose? On the other hand if you pull a gun your life will probably be ruined however it turns out.

On more than one occasion I've had individuals come into my business upset and call me a few colorful names, all the time I have a pistol on my hip. Had one guy try and come around the counter and get in my face. Pulling my gun was not on the top of my list to do in that situation. Until another weapon is brandished it stays holstered.

Come on down and spend some time down here and see for yourself, it's not the evil wild wild west like some would want you to believe it is.

It is possible to keep a level head in a heated situation.

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

if a gun is a tool, what do you build with it?

Freedom. (Dinner too).

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

On more than one occasion I've had individuals come into my business upset and call me a few colorful names, all the time I have a pistol on my hip. Had one guy try and come around the counter and get in my face. Pulling my gun was not on the top of my list to do in that situation. Until another weapon is brandished it stays holstered.

Come on down and spend some time down here and see for yourself, it's not the evil wild wild west like some would want you to believe it is.

It is possible to keep a level head in a heated situation.

You need to remember that these guy will rail against the anti gun agenda of the media here, but believe everything they hear coming from the U.S. media.

There is also a lot of anti American sentiment up here.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Gust

Your post is a non sequitur. Read back and then read in order of the posts. If you put my post behind rugs post then yes it would be a caustic statement.

Were you not responding to rugs post.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

Were you not responding to rugs post.

nope, wild & free

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Freedom. (Dinner too).

were free in Canada, no guns required to build that.

point is I've never used a gun to repair or build anything, I've used guns to puncture a target at a distance. the target is always tasty too. a gun is a tool for destruction not creation. explosives are also tools, but they're even more regulated then firearms due to the destructive nature of the tool in question.

gust had the best answer so far, perforation for AC.

I have little concern with what people do in private with their own property, but in public there's a code of conduct and here in Canada part of that code is being unarmed and peaceful something the vast majority have no issue with.

the violent crime stats speak for themselves, we don't need guns in public on private citizens to maintain a peaceful coexistence with each other.

current laws are too restrictive for how you use your property in regards to hand guns. I'll support any motion towards lifting those restrictions up to a point as would a majority of others who have no stake in the debate. the guns in public will take a lot more convincing and a lot more violence in our society and culture to justify in my vote.

I am trying to help here. I hunt, I use firearms and I follow the law.

[220swifty]

When you hunt, your intent is to kill game. Your gun is the tool used to make that happen. No different than the shovel you used to push snow all winter is the tool you used for that task.

Maybe you hunt with an enfeild. So it wasn't designed to kill game, but it works. Just like I shovel snow with a grain shovel.

Saying a gun isn't a tool because it isn't used to build or repair anything is pretty ridiculous. Lots of tools are designed for a purpose other than building or repairing. I could make you a list, but I hope you get the point.

[fish gunner]

The tool question from W&F sparked a idea , so I talked to a friend with some law schooling . One can use a knife in almost any situation a pistol could be utilized in self defence ie the person is close enough to be a legitimate threat to ones safety. Fair enought I suggest . Now after defending ones self (hypothetically) now standing in front of the wig. You had a knike on your person ..with what intent ? It a tool your honour, I cut open bales, cut my mail open , open boxes, cut rope some times its a screw driver or a pry bar . Did you ,when picking up you knife this morning have any use for that knife as a weapon ? No you honor.
Now same scenario with a pistol .what use does one have with a gun in self defence??? Did you intend to use the pistol as a wepon when you picked it up this morning ? No your honor. then why did you pick up the pistol ?? Please accept this is my gist of anothers explination .
Unless unregisterd user is correct and going to over throw the gov.. lol . Intent to do harm, no matter the motivation good or bad, its that cut and dry. Unless some one can post up a list of out side of the box uses for a pistol .. my buddy had me stumped. Any one .

[220swifty]

Pest control, target shooting, livestock euthanasia, just off the top of my head.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

When you hunt, your intent is to kill game. Your gun is the tool used to make that happen. No different than the shovel you used to push snow all winter is the tool you used for that task.

Maybe you hunt with an enfeild. So it wasn't designed to kill game, but it works. Just like I shovel snow with a grain shovel.

Saying a gun isn't a tool because it isn't used to build or repair anything is pretty ridiculous. Lots of tools are designed for a purpose other than building or repairing. I could make you a list, but I hope you get the point.

it is the destructive nature of a firearm that makes the tool argument not work on the Anti crowd, I was being a bit on the facitious(sp) side. I've stated my position, you yours. so let's work together to start change and find a solution that satisfies everyone. was that not the intent of the thread?

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

it is the destructive nature of a firearm that makes the tool argument not work on the Anti crowd, I was being a bit on the facitious(sp) side. I've stated my position, you yours. so let's work together to start change and find a solution that satisfies everyone. was that not the intent of the thread?

The first step in finding a solution would, as many others have said for years is scrapping C-68.

[insurgus]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

After participating in the thread that was running until it got locked last night, it is pretty clear there is a division between members on CCW in Canada. I know where I stand, but understand the division too.

That had me thinking today, how does this forum view handguns as a defensive tool, in places other than the urban public. Let's say, for example, a bill was introduced tomorrow that allowed handgun owners to essentially use them as they would a non-restricted, and store them as they see fit at home. It would also make it legal to use a firearm on your own property for defense of life and livelyhood.

Discuss, without getting this one locked too.

I approve this message.

[220swifty]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

it is the destructive nature of a firearm that makes the tool argument not work on the Anti crowd, I was being a bit on the facitious(sp) side. I've stated my position, you yours. so let's work together to start change and find a solution that satisfies everyone. was that not the intent of the thread?

Fair enough, I missed the facetious part. Yep, the intent of the thread was working together to find a solution. That's why I initially wanted CCW out of the thread, it's too polarizing, and eventually dominates the conversation like it has here. Not to mention, we are a long way from having that discussion on a national level, so perhaps we should wait until we get closer to that bridge before attempting a crossing.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

Pest control, target shooting, livestock euthanasia, just off the top of my head.

As a rural person on private land yes. I take the gist to be the intent to use the pistol ...

[220swifty]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

As a rural person on private land yes. I take the gist to be the intent to use the pistol ...

'I intended to go to thee range after work and fire my pistol. Since my office is on the other side of the city from my home, and the range is close to my office, I brought my pistol with me. Due to the high occurance of theft from vehicles in parkades, I do not feel comfortable leaving a firearm unattended in the vehicle, and that is why it was on my person when I was attacked'

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

'I intended to go to thee range after work and fire my pistol. Since my office is on the other side of the city from my home, and the range is close to my office, I brought my pistol with me. Due to the high occurance of theft from vehicles in parkades, I do not feel comfortable leaving a firearm unattended in the vehicle, and that is why it was on my person when I was attacked'

That my friend is premedatation now if used you pistol as a bottle opener and had corroborating evidence ie yes your honour the big guy always opened his beer with his colt. That would take away the premeditation .

[BeeGuy]

The argument that a firearm is just a tool like any other is often touted but perpetually without merit.

It should be glaringly obvious that you cannot equate a shovel with a firearm.

These things are not equal and it requires a great leap in logic to believe they are.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

'I intended to go to thee range after work and fire my pistol. Since my office is on the other side of the city from my home, and the range is close to my office, I brought my pistol with me. Due to the high occurance of theft from vehicles in parkades, I do not feel comfortable leaving a firearm unattended in the vehicle, and that is why it was on my person when I was attacked'

How's about you start a new thread, leave this on up for the CCW debate, and ask your original thoughts, add a poll and then start an ideas session to get the baby steps going.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

That my friend is premedatation now if used you pistol as a bottle opener and had corroborating evidence ie yes your honour the big guy always opened his beer with his colt. That would take away the premeditation .

Swifty's original explanation would fare better than the bottle opener scenario and would not be premeditation.

A man gets sentenced to Life for pre-meditated murder,, the man pleaded insanity as he murdered his wife while wearing her wedding dress.

Why?

His wife was a size 1 and he was a size 7, so in order to wear the dress he had to have it altered in order to go to the next step.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Gust

Swifty's original explanation would fare better than the bottle opener scenario and would not be premeditation.

A man gets sentenced to Life for pre-meditated murder,, the man pleaded insanity as he murdered his wife while wearing her wedding dress.

Why?

His wife was a size 1 and he was a size 7, so in order to wear the dress he had to have it altered in order to go to the next step.

Where do find this stuff ?? Hotels .com has capt obvious we get capt obscurea. Do you get the cool outfit.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Where do find this stuff ?? Hotels .com has capt obvious we get capt obscurea. Do you get the cool outfit.

Nooo, there's a name for those questions to train young lawyers to open their brains. They're usually played as yes & no only answers and are good games for long road trips.

The more famous one is;

52 bicycles, 4 people and one of them will drown. Why?

[Gust]

A fitting picture for this thread;

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

The argument that a firearm is just a tool like any other is often touted but perpetually without merit.

It should be glaringly obvious that you cannot equate a shovel with a firearm.

These things are not equal and it requires a great leap in logic to believe they are.

tool


/to͞ol/


noun

noun: tool; plural noun: tools



1. a device or implement, esp. one held in the hand, used to carry out a particular function.

2. Tool is an American rock band from Los Angeles, California. Formed in 1990, the group's line-up has included drummer Danny Carey, guitarist Adam Jones, and vocalist Maynard James Keenan http://vimeo.com/44278797

[raab]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

were free in Canada, no guns required to build that.

point is I've never used a gun to repair or build anything, I've used guns to puncture a target at a distance. the target is always tasty too. a gun is a tool for destruction not creation. explosives are also tools, but they're even more regulated then firearms due to the destructive nature of the tool in question.

gust had the best answer so far, perforation for AC.

I have little concern with what people do in private with their own property, but in public there's a code of conduct and here in Canada part of that code is being unarmed and peaceful something the vast majority have no issue with.

the violent crime stats speak for themselves, we don't need guns in public on private citizens to maintain a peaceful coexistence with each other.

current laws are too restrictive for how you use your property in regards to hand guns. I'll support any motion towards lifting those restrictions up to a point as would a majority of others who have no stake in the debate. the guns in public will take a lot more convincing and a lot more violence in our society and culture to justify in my vote.

I am trying to help here. I hunt, I use firearms and I follow the law.

If we were truly free would it be a big deal to wear a firearm in public? Basically by saying people shouldn't be able to wear them in public because something could happen you are judging the person/group before they've had a fault. It's akin to me saying I don't think people should be allowed to drive because they might get drunk, speed, not follow the laws and kill someone.

I think if it were to happen you'd need a lot of restrictions and education on the topic. Also would need places where guns are prohibited such any drinking establishments, etc... But I don't think it would be the end of the world and random people would all of the sudden be getting shot. Especially if people are only allowed to have open carry's.

[Wild&Free]

the function, to penetrate a target at a distance with great force...

[260 Rem]

One thing is for sure, that being that even gun enthusiasts do not agree on any form of handgun carry in "public" places ... but a large majority have no issue with use on your own private property. Perhaps that is where we need to start? IMO, it is not realistic to plan a trip to the moon before designing a rocket.