NOT a CCW thread

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

fair enough, but someone carrying a rock large enough to be used as a weapon in public wouldn't make you question his intent? hockey stick, bat, high heels could all be used as a weapon, but really are not considered weapons until they are used as one. see the distinction.

The point I was trying to convey is anything can be used as a weapon.

You said "the right to carry a weapon in public however does not exist. there is no distinction between benign carry and carrying with intent until the moment of the crime. so if you're carrying a weapon, it is easier to assume that it will be used then it is to constantly second guess everyone in public"

People will use what they have at hand if they decide to do someone harm. We've seen it time and time again. It happened yesterday in Toronto and in Pennsylvania.

To answer this question "would you accept people walking around with batons, cludgels and sword on their hip/back along side firearms?"

The answer is yes.

[wags]

Originally Posted by raab

Good post. I honestly don't get why some groups are advocating so hard to get rid of all firearms. If no average citizen has any firearms we are sittings ducks if/when any political sort of strife happens in this country. Personally I'd rather see something like Switzerland use to have where pretty much every male at 20 undergoes basic recruit training, and enlisted into the militia until 30. They were then issued a rifle and 50 rounds of sealed ammunition that they kept at home.

Maybe its just my internal conspiracist coming out but something just doesn't seem right about wanting to take away ALL firearms.

Originally Posted by Ryry4

I agree. It has nothing to do with being a conspiracy theorist. All you have to do is read up on some not to distant history.

Not sure how this can happen since that infringes on one's personal rights...doesn't it?

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

I know dozens of people that carry a knife around with them at all times. Does that frighten you.

The definition of a "weapon" in the Canadian Criminal Code is "anything that can be used to physically harm someone". Yes, anything. High heel shoe, rock, hockey stick, golf club, stapler, television set, etc.

I'm not sure you can get a decent holster for a TV (are you wielding a flat screen?), a Trinitron would be a beast to wield and I'd pay to see TV mixed martial arts. Anyone who carries a big rock (at least one that could do good damage) must have a good belt on their pants or at the least suspenders. High heel shoe? Ever try chasing someone when you've lost a regular soled shoe? Stapler, well if it was made before 1970 maybe,, but tell me, how many staples have you punched in a row, I find staplers always jam on the third staple.

We carry two steel putters while we fish, I might get my Dad a decent wedge, but we're awful golfers so some training is needed.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

I know dozens of people that carry a knife around with them at all times. Does that frighten you.

The definition of a "weapon" in the Canadian Criminal Code is "anything that can be used to physically harm someone". Yes, anything. High heel shoe, rock, hockey stick, golf club, stapler, television set, etc.

What ya figure the probabiliy of 30k on planet earth being killed in total by you list of dangerous weapons ..... dont answer its a fore gone conclusion

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by Gust

I'm not sure you can get a decent holster for a TV (are you wielding a flat screen?), a Trinitron would be a beast to wield and I'd pay to see TV mixed martial arts. Anyone who carries a big rock (at least one that could do good damage) must have a good belt on their pants or at the least suspenders. High heel shoe? Ever try chasing someone when you've lost a regular soled shoe? Stapler, well if it was made before 1970 maybe,, but tell me, how many staples have you punched in a row, I find staplers always jam on the third staple.

We carry two steel putters while we fish, I might get my Dad a decent wedge, but we're awful golfers so some training is needed.

Gust, did you miss the point I was trying to portray or are you just giving me the gears?

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

The point I was trying to convey is anything can be used as a weapon.

You said "the right to carry a weapon in public however does not exist. there is no distinction between benign carry and carrying with intent until the moment of the crime. so if you're carrying a weapon, it is easier to assume that it will be used then it is to constantly second guess everyone in public"

People will use what they have at hand if they decide to do someone harm. We've seen it time and time again. It happened yesterday in Toronto and in Pennsylvania.

To answer this question "would you accept people walking around with batons, cludgels and sword on their hip/back along side firearms?"

The answer is yes.

glad I live in a peaceful country and don't feel the need myself. and I have the utmost respect for your choice to move to a country where you can satisfy your own needs, I really do. like Harper said, "it's a free country, you're free to leave at anytime".

it's a cultural thing. peaceful cultures don't carry weapons without intent, the US has been in one war or another for most of its existence and has a different culture. consider the context of independence for both nations, the US escaped the bondage of British imperialism, while Canada was set free. an escapee is more concerned with being put back in chains while the free'd man less so, hence the cultural difference. both take measures to prevent it just differently.

still with violent crime rates in Canada falling and no distinctive weapons in public, no ccw or open carry we must be doing something right.

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by wags

Not sure how this can happen since that infringes on one's personal rights...doesn't it?

You're not sure how what can happen?

[raab]

Originally Posted by wags

Not sure how this can happen since that infringes on one's personal rights...doesn't it?

In the States its written into the constitution so it would be very difficult. Here all it would take is the right leaders to get into power and you could see your firearms made illegal tomorrow.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

Gust, did you miss the point I was trying to portray or are you just giving me the gears?

There was wiggle room for some much needed humour.

We do carry golf clubs while fishing.

[wags]

Originally Posted by Ryry4

You're not sure how what can happen?

Originally Posted by raab

In the States its written into the constitution so it would be very difficult. Here all it would take is the right leaders to get into power and you could see your firearms made illegal tomorrow.

Sorry, I meant force everyone to attend the military.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

glad I live in a peaceful country and don't feel the need myself. and I have the utmost respect for your choice to move to a country where you can satisfy your own needs, I really do. like Harper said, "it's a free country, you're free to leave at anytime".

it's a cultural thing. peaceful cultures don't carry weapons without intent, the US has been in one war or another for most of its existence and has a different culture. consider the context of independence for both nations, the US escaped the bondage of British imperialism, while Canada was set free. an escapee is more concerned with being put back in chains while the free'd man less so, hence the cultural difference. both take measures to prevent it just differently.

still with violent crime rates in Canada falling and no distinctive weapons in public, no ccw or open carry we must be doing something right.

As I said earlier CCW doesn't make any sense in Canada we don't need it. A open carry permit where you could legally wear your gun in public holstered should not be a problem.

I think instead of blaming guns for problems we should start blaming the real culprit which is mental illness and start having screenings when kids go into high school.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by wags

Sorry, I meant force everyone to attend the military.

In the constitution isn't there something about being part of a strong militia?

Wonder when that will become the amendment flavour of the day?

[raab]

Originally Posted by wags

Sorry, I meant force everyone to attend the military.

Conscription... but really how bad would it be to go take 3 months of training to be able to defend yourself and your country if anyone ever invaded? There is a reason switzerland is the safest country in the world, and it's not because they took guns away.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by raab

There is a reason switzerland is the safest country in the world, and it's not because they took guns away.

Mountains and easily corruptible banks?

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by Gust

There was wiggle room for some much needed humour.

We do carry golf clubs while fishing.

That's funny.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by raab

As I said earlier CCW doesn't make any sense in Canada we don't need it. A open carry permit where you could legally wear your gun in public holstered should not be a problem.

I think instead of blaming guns for problems we should start blaming the real culprit which is mental illness and start having screenings when kids go into high school.

open carry would be tough, my previous posts I think is a good place to start though. you don't get the reputation of being a kind, polite, compassionate people if everyone is packing heat. just saying.

high school is a start, but schizophrenia the mental illness most likely to produce a violent offender usually manifests later in life however. there's a lot of kids with issues who turn out just fine. 1 in 3 suffer from some sort of mental illness. the big question is how do you deal with psychopathy, that's a tricky one.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/07...%80%99/64.html

[wags]

Originally Posted by raab

Good post. I honestly don't get why some groups are advocating so hard to get rid of all firearms. If no average citizen has any firearms we are sittings ducks if/when any political sort of strife happens in this country. Personally I'd rather see something like Switzerland use to have where pretty much every male at 20 undergoes basic recruit training, and enlisted into the militia until 30. They were then issued a rifle and 50 rounds of sealed ammunition that they kept at home.

Maybe its just my internal conspiracist coming out but something just doesn't seem right about wanting to take away ALL firearms.

Originally Posted by raab

Conscription... but really how bad would it be to go take 3 months of training to be able to defend yourself and your country if anyone ever invaded? There is a reason switzerland is the safest country in the world, and it's not because they took guns away.

3 months and 10 years are two different things. With that being said, the point being forced. Forced sounds like something against my rights.

I also don't know how much I can correlate having to be in the military and Switzerland being the safest country in the world. Doesn't Isreal require all members of society to enroll in the military? They don't seem so safe there, in the grand scheme of things.

Cheers

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

glad I live in a peaceful country and don't feel the need myself. and I have the utmost respect for your choice to move to a country where you can satisfy your own needs, I really do. like Harper said, "it's a free country, you're free to leave at anytime".

it's a cultural thing. peaceful cultures don't carry weapons without intent, the US has been in one war or another for most of its existence and has a different culture. consider the context of independence for both nations, the US escaped the bondage of British imperialism, while Canada was set free. an escapee is more concerned with being put back in chains while the free'd man less so, hence the cultural difference. both take measures to prevent it just differently.

still with violent crime rates in Canada falling and no distinctive weapons in public, no ccw or open carry we must be doing something right.

I think your reasoning is flawed, but unlike many people I let others make their own decisions. I just would like it if everyone else gave me the same. If you don't want to do something, then don't but please don't tell me what I can and can't do.

You may think Canada is a nice peaceful country where everything is rainbows and ice cream and nothing bad ever happens, just don't walk into a warehouse in Edmonton on the wrong day.

[raab]

Originally Posted by wags

3 months and 10 years are two different things. With that being said, the point being forced. Forced sounds like something against my rights.

I also don't know how much I can correlate having to be in the military and Switzerland being the safest country in the world. Doesn't Isreal require all members of society to enroll in the military? They don't seem so safe there, in the grand scheme of things.

Cheers

It's 3 months of full time training and then you do drills in your hometown for the next 10 years to keep in shape and stay sharp. It can be forced if its in the interest of national security. With the Russian Bear looking like they'll take back Ukraine things could get very tense in the next few years here. Anyways were starting to get off topic.

Why this works in keeping crime low is that the population as a whole is trained in self defence and how to look after themselves if put in a bad situation basically. Also with guns everywhere no one can easily get the upper hand on the average citizen by simply breaking a law.

[Wild&Free]

how can I tell you what you can and cannot do, you live in another country with its own culture and it's own laws. the US may consider itself the greatest nation on earth, but that's just subjective.

and I think your reasoning is also flawed as out of all the warehouses, and all the days they've been opened you base your position on an incident with an extremely low probability. I'll take my chances.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Gust

I wonder how the family of the popcorn incident are feeling right now, or the
family of the kid who taunted the CCW'er with his car stereo?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...rmit-guns-utah

They're probably wishing they taught them some manners.

Why don't you ask Teresa Barron what she thinks of CCW? http://www.easybakegunclub.com/news/...mans-life.html

...or how about these victims and countless others that were saved by aa CCW holder in Utah...http://www.4utah.com/content/news/to...Nk2Q9tJtkKq3VA

Or hey, you could ask this woman how she feels about CCW...another life saved by CCW...http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/m...-from-being-be Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. praised Blackmore Wednesday in a statement to the Milwaukee-Wisconsin Journal Sentinel: “I want to get to a day when acts like this are viewed as a citizen doing their civic duty. Criminals have got to be reassessing things right now. They have to be asking themselves if it is worth it anymore, might they face resistance or be shot? That’s a good thing.”

Are you OK telling someone, "Sorry, your mom was killed today, but we just can't have people going around shooting killers and rapists."?

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

how can I tell you what you can and cannot do, you live in another country with its own culture and it's own laws. the US may consider itself the greatest nation on earth, but that's just subjective.

and I think your reasoning is also flawed as out of all the warehouses, and all the days they've been opened you base your position on an incident with an extremely low probability. I'll take my chances.

And I'll take mine.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by rugatika

They're probably wishing they taught them some manners.

Why don't you ask Teresa Barron what she thinks of CCW?

http://www.easybakegunclub.com/news/...mans-life.html

...or how about these victims and countless others that were saved by aa CCW holder in Utah...http://www.4utah.com/content/news/to...Nk2Q9tJtkKq3VA

Or hey, you could ask this woman how she feels about CCW...another life saved by CCW...http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/m...-from-being-be Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. praised Blackmore Wednesday in a statement to the Milwaukee-Wisconsin Journal Sentinel: “I want to get to a day when acts like this are viewed as a citizen doing their civic duty. Criminals have got to be reassessing things right now. They have to be asking themselves if it is worth it anymore, might they face resistance or be shot? That’s a good thing.”

Are you OK telling someone, "Sorry, your mom was killed today, but we just can't have people going around shooting killers and rapists."?

So you are saying CCW'ers are going to police manners with lethal force?

Episode 1, Ruggy: Mr. Manners

"Hmmm, there's a guy spitting, I better go confront him,, oh it's chew, he gets a pass. Oh look there's a fat woman and I can see her thong underwear, I better flash my gun and tell her to pull up her pants. I TOLD MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOUR TO OIL THE SPRINGS ON HIS KIDS TRAMPOLINE, WHERE'S HIS MANNERS? That doofus just cut the line, well I'll show him!"

The other day you chastised Beedude for using a single instance to explain a point,, you said something to the effect of singular incidents aren't good arguments. Yet most of your posts are of these singular incidents.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Gust

So you are saying CCW'ers are going to police manners with lethal force?

Episode 1, Ruggy: Mr. Manners

"Hmmm, there's a guy spitting, I better go confront him,, oh it's chew, he gets a pass. Oh look there's a fat woman and I can see her thong underwear, I better flash my gun and tell her to pull up her pants. I TOLD MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOUR TO OIL THE SPRINGS ON HIS KIDS TRAMPOLINE, WHERE'S HIS MANNERS? That doofus just cut the line, well I'll show him!"

The other day you chastised Beedude for using a single instance to explain a point,, you said something to the effect of singular incidents aren't good arguments. Yet most of your posts are of these singular incidents.

Manners was partly tongue in cheek.

As to your other point, if you notice the quoted part of my post (your words), you mentioned two specific incidents where CCW ostensibly cost people their lives. I responded in kind with several incidents where several lives were saved by CCW. You were attempting to conjure up an emotional reaction to two heart wrenching incidents, rather than pose a logical argument. I can play the emotional game as well if you wish to go that route, as CCW saves the lives of mothers, fathers, daughters, and sons. People that if it were up to you, would be dead for the simple reason you didn't want them to be able to adequately defend themselves against evil.

I know you want to have your cake and eat it too, but anecdotally, factually, morally, and statistically, you don't have a leg to stand on. All of which have been posted on this forum several times over, but you people refuse to accept the facts and keep on going off on these specific (heart wrenching granted...) incidents, as if CCW specifically or handguns in general lead to people turning into crazed killers. It just has not ever been seen or demonstrated to occur.


Handguns are a tool that are only as good or as evil as the person that wields them. Until there are more evil people in the world (who will always have access to weapons regardless of the laws), than good people, I will want the law abiding citizens to have equal access to guns as the bad guys.

[fish gunner]

Just think no canadian in living history has been shot or killed by a ccw holder and of the .05 per 100k that do get killed by firearms how many made that bed ?? Just saying we can have pop corn fight and no one will die at least statistically speaking. .

[Gust]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Manners was partly tongue in cheek.

As to your other point, if you notice the quoted part of my post (your words), you mentioned two specific incidents where CCW ostensibly cost people their lives. I responded in kind with several incidents where several lives were saved by CCW.

I know you want to have your cake and eat it too, but anecdotally, factually, morally, and statistically, you don't have a leg to stand on. All of which have been posted on this forum several times over, but you people refuse to accept the facts and keep on going off on these specific (heart wrenching granted...) incidents, as if CCW specifically or handguns in general lead to people turning into crazed killers. It just has not ever been seen or demonstrated to occur.


Handguns are a tool that are only as good or as evil as the person that wields them. Until there are more evil people in the world (who will always have access to weapons regardless of the laws), than good people, I will want the law abiding citizens to have equal access to guns as the bad guys.

Once again, it is necessary to get info out from both sides; the older argument used to be about keeping guns from criminals,, I posted actual facts/findings on straw purchasing and laws that would keep these purchases from happening. Redforg, instead of reading the info, just decided to call me a liberal.

Hand guns are a tool, we get that,, you may have missed another post of mine on the U.S trying to iron out the 2nd amendment for 200 + years so that it functions as intended. Can't remember what I got slagged for that. You also missed my post on how I think it's really interesting to see States act within the Union as they were supposed to (i.e., marijuana, ccw, logging, etc...), but a member decided my comment was of a sentiment of citizen encroachment.

Later, I'll post a post of yours under my name, and I will get slagged as a lefty liberal.

I've posted both pro and con facts and articles but still, I get called a bla-bla-bla. So we're back to flicking thumb tacks at each other.

[Wild&Free]

doesn't everyone have the right to be judged by twelve instead of carried by six?

self defense is there to get the upper hand to escape a bad situation using reasonable force not enact vigilante justice. sometimes killing a person is justified, most of the time it isn't.

[Wild&Free]

if a gun is a tool, what do you build with it?

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Gust

Once again, it is necessary to get info out from both sides; the older argument used to be about keeping guns from criminals,, I posted actual facts/findings on straw purchasing and laws that would keep these purchases from happening. Redforg, instead of reading the info, just decided to call me a liberal.

Hand guns are a tool, we get that,, you may have missed another post of mine on the U.S trying to iron out the 2nd amendment for 200 + years so that it functions as intended. Can't remember what I got slagged for that. You also missed my post on how I think it's really interesting to see States act within the Union as they were supposed to (i.e., marijuana, ccw, logging, etc...), but a member decided my comment was of a sentiment of citizen encroachment.

Later, I'll post a post of yours under my name, and I will get slagged as a lefty liberal.

I've posted both pro and con facts and articles but still, I get called a bla-bla-bla. So we're back to flicking thumb tacks at each other.

OMG!!! Stop blaming me for your weak arguments. They are so weak you've taken to arguing both sides of the issue in an attempt to win a point.



Hope this helps.

If I've offended you, I'm truly sorry. I didn't know being a Liberal was such a bad word. My Bad.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

if a gun is a tool, what do you build with it?

Air Conditioning via perforation.

Anywhere that you need a hole or a series of holes.

Quicker than a drill for those pesky pilot holes.

Quick dispatch of Halibut that you decide to keep,, not exactly a building per se.