Crossbows, to be or not to be

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Seeing as we live in Alberta, let's go with how archery/bows are defined here

From ALBERTA regulations:

Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head. An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.) in length that has a tip that bears a head that is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object. Furthermore, it must either have a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.


LC

The same Alberta that voted NDP...hmmm anyways a crossbow initially is drawn by muscular power, held by muscular power and released by muscular power...from that stand point just getting out of the truck requires muscular power...no I am not a lawyer....just having fun with ya LC.

Luv bow hunting which to me is spending time in the outdoors, if I happen to take a game animal legally and fair chase than I am extremely proud and proud of those who do the same.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Seeing as we live in Alberta, let's go with how archery/bows are defined here

From ALBERTA regulations:

Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head. An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.) in length that has a tip that bears a head that is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object. Furthermore, it must either have a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.

LC

That definition can be easily changed so providing that as proof for your argument isn't very strong.

Everytime one of these threads appear I'm amused by all of the myths about them. Holding them shouldered on a rest all day might sound good but in reality critters don't always stand broadside to you exactly where you want them. Just like hunting with traditional archery equipment, you might have to stand in your tree stand and adjust your position to get a clear shot. Crossbows are heavy and you can't hold it shouldered for long in instances like that, anymore than you can hold a compound bow drawn all day. So, you have to shoulder the crossbow while a with a compound bow you have to draw it. Wanna split hairs on which on requires more movement?

Wrt the learning curve.....I think that a crossbow is easier to become consistent with vs a compound bow but it's not quite as easy as some people let on. Anyone that thinks that spending an hour learning how to shoot a crossbow is enough is leaving themselves open to failure. Simply cocking it differently each time will cause the bolt to Fly differently each time. Even graphite bolts are not all the same and you have to test each one out of a box of six to find the one that is the most consistent.....the same with the arrowheads....you have to find the right combination. Then again, I know guys that take three shots with their rifle in prep for hunting season and if they can hit a paper plate at 100m that's good enough.

Fighting against including crossbows in archery only season has nothing to do with definitions and all of the excuses given, it's about protectionism and that's it. Why do you think that the ABA went after atatl and spears?

I'd like to see crossbows included in the archery only zones like wmu 248. There are tons of deer and too few archery hunters to manage the numbers.

[xxclaro]

Two questions, if I may..

1) Who is currently not hunting the archery season due to the fact that crossbows aren't permitted for the able bodied?

2)Why aren't they?

[Yaha Tinda]

....Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow.

An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.) Or in the case of a crossbow one that requires a minimum of 90kg (200lbs) to be drawn.

An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.) in length or in the case of a crossbow an arrow not less than 35 cm (14 in.) that has a tip that bears a head that is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object. Furthermore, it must either have a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.

fixed it for you....now wasn't that easy.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

That definition can be easily changed so providing that as proof for your argument isn't very strong.

I'd like to see crossbows included in the archery only zones like wmu 248. There are tons of deer and too few archery hunters to manage the numbers.

This is not directly aimed at you HunterDave

You don't have to be a scientist or a legal secretary to know and understand the definition and function of a crossbow differs from that of a conventional bow.

Definitions included in regulations typically are clear and concise and if you don't understand the intent, it typically means you are trying to twist them to fit your needs.

Furthermore.... Crossbows have been included in the 248 bow zone for MANY YEARS...in fact you can use a xbow from October 25-December 7 and shoot 3 WT deer, one of which can be antlered!

So if folks are going to argue for inclusion...maybe check where it is ALREADY INCLUDED

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

I would like to know...

How many guys have crossbows now

How many guys actively use them for hunting during regular general season

How many guys actively use them for hunting the 248 WT season

How many guys would take up crossbow use if it was included in archery only seasons

LC

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

You don't have to be a scientist or a legal secretary to know and understand the definition and function of a crossbow differs from that of a conventional bow.

Definitions included in regulations typically are clear and concise and if you don't understand the intent, it typically means you are trying to twist them to fit your needs.

Furthermore.... Crossbows have been included in the 248 bow zone for MANY YEARS...in fact you can use a xbow from October 25-December 7 and shoot 3 WT deer, one of which can be antlered!

LC

Really, it's been awhile since I've used my crossbow in 248 and I wasn't aware that crossbows are now approve there. It wasn't legal to use there the last time that I was there. Good stuff!

Wait, doesn't the archery season in wmu 248 open in September?

You missed the point about the definition that you are using to define crossbows. Yes, the regs clearly define what can and can't be used during archery seasons, I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is that the definition can be easily amended to include crossbows in the reg definition, and it would if the regulations ever changed. You are using a definition that can be changed, unlike a dictionary definition that can't. Catch my drift?

[sjemac]

A compound bow requires no more skill than a crossbow does. It only requires more muscle power. End of story. Stop trying to pretend bow hunters are special.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I would like to know...

How many guys have crossbows now

How many guys actively use them for hunting during regular general season

How many guys actively use them for hunting the 248 WT season

How many guys would take up crossbow use if it was included in archery only seasons

LC

Yes
No
No
Wouldn't have to

I don't have time to bow hunt anymore. FOR SALE- Excalibur Exomax with all the bells and whistles and a climbing tree stand $1000 Obo.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Really, it's been awhile since I've used my crossbow in 248 and I wasn't aware that crossbows are now approve there. It wasn't legal to use there the last time that I was there. Good stuff!

Wait, doesn't the archery season in wmu 248 open in September?

You missed the point about the definition that you are using to define crossbows. Yes, the regs clearly define what can and can't be used during archery seasons, I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is that the definition can be easily amended to include crossbows in the reg definition, and it would if the regulations ever changed. You are using a definition that can be changed, unlike a dictionary definition that can't. Catch my drift?

There are several seasons in 248, only the portions which overlap Strathcona and Leduc counties is the crossbow valid during that specific season and separate tags valid.

A bow and a crossbow as defined anywhere....are different catch my drift?

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by sjemac

A compound bow requires no more skill than a crossbow does. It only requires more muscle power. End of story. Stop trying to pretend bow hunters are special.

Lol.....that's your opinion. Thanks for that.

LC

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

How many days did you crossbow hunt this year?

LC

Zero. I also hunted zero days with my rifle, unless you count being in the bush everyday in November with a 30.06 in my truck just in case I came across a deer, hunting.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

There are several seasons in 248, only the portions which overlap Strathcona and Leduc counties is the crossbow valid during that specific season and separate tags valid.

A bow and a crossbow as defined anywhere....are different catch my drift?

LC

Ahhhh, you tricked me. You said that crossbows had been legal to use in Wmu 248 when it is only a portion of it. Simply shameful, Lefty.

[Hunt4Ever]

Originally Posted by sjemac

A compound bow requires no more skill than a crossbow does. It only requires more muscle power. End of story. Stop trying to pretend bow hunters are special.

Wow...how can you argue that....LMAO

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Ahhhh, you tricked me. You said that crossbows had been legal to use in Wmu 248 when it is only a portion of it. Simply shameful, Lefty.

No trickery, just figured you would know

LC

[xxclaro]

Originally Posted by sjemac

A compound bow requires no more skill than a crossbow does. It only requires more muscle power. End of story. Stop trying to pretend bow hunters are special.

You are wrong. Compound requires far more skill. End of story.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by jaylow?

I think to protect archery season it should be limited to recurve and longbow. Compounds offer too much mechanical assistance in way of let off. It's hard to be righteous about having to hold draw when the cams have taken the majority of that away.

I agree 100% get rid of compounds and we get rid of having so many zones on the draw for archery.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by TBark

Likely another reason bowhunters do not want crossbows in archery season is if hunter surveys show more animals taken during archery season as a result of crossbows, the archery season for certain species will go to a draw, if not already on a draw. And number of tags on that draw will be reduced also.

TBark

There lies the rub.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by xxclaro

You are wrong. Compound requires far more skill. End of story.

And traditional requires far more skill than compounds...beating a dead horse here.

They are all bows and should be thrown all into the same seasons, zones etc.

Imagine if rifle hunting got broken down into groups for different seasons, single shot, open sights, optic assisted etc they are all rifles.

I got to admit when I was heavy into muzzleloading and was using a 50 cal Hawkins came across a fella with a scoped out knight inline I was taken that this was deemed a muzzleloader, freaking thing was shooting two inch groups out at 200 yards, I was lucky to lob a 385 gr hornady Great Plains bullet any where near the side of a barn let alone hit it but it was a muzzleloader and we all got along, use to call it cheating and used by less skilled hunters just picking on them. Thing is we all got along and accepted the fact we were muzzleloading hunting...

Just wish the same could be said with bows used during archery season, can hardly wait to pull out the crossbow just gotta put down the old Jennings bow of 21 years...and find the cash to get a excalibre bow

[Hydro1]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

And traditional requires far more skill than compounds...beating a dead horse here.

They are all bows and should be thrown all into the same seasons, zones etc.

Imagine if rifle hunting got broken down into groups for different seasons, single shot, open sights, optic assisted etc they are all rifles.

I got to admit when I was heavy into muzzleloading and was using a 50 cal Hawkins came across a fella with a scoped out knight inline I was taken that this was deemed a muzzleloader, freaking thing was shooting two inch groups out at 200 yards, I was lucky to lob a 385 gr hornady Great Plains bullet any where near the side of a barn let alone hit it but it was a muzzleloader and we all got along, use to call it cheating and used by less skilled hunters just picking on them. Thing is we all got along and accepted the fact we were muzzleloading hunting...

Just wish the same could be said with bows used during archery season, can hardly wait to pull out the crossbow just gotta put down the old Jennings bow of 21 years...and find the cash to get a excalibre bow

Those new Excaliburs look sharp!
Been eyeballing this one. Sadly I'll have to sell my arm to buy it.
Wait, they're so easy to use, I could still use it with one arm!!
kidding.
http://excaliburcrossbow.org/catalog...trix_405_mega_

[petew]

How ironic to read that those that think Bow hunting shouldn't have it's own season, that was put in place because of the difficulty of hunting with a bow crying that there shouldn't be a special season because they can't do it , because it is to difficult for them .

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Hydro1

Those new Excaliburs look sharp!
Been eyeballing this one. Sadly I'll have to sell my arm to buy it.
Wait, they're so easy to use, I could still use it with one arm!!
kidding.
http://excaliburcrossbow.org/catalog...trix_405_mega_

Don't forget to get your disability permit

Yeah those bows are nice rigs.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Excaliber does not make a bow.....they make x-guns

LC

[lake side]

gun
ɡən/
noun
1.
a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.
synonyms: firearm, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, carbine, automatic, handgun, semiautomatic, machine gun, Uzi; More


bow1
bō/
noun
1.
a knot tied with two loops and two loose ends, used especially for tying shoelaces and decorative ribbons.
"a girl with long hair tied back in a bow"
synonyms: loop, knot; ribbon
"she tied a bow in her hair"
2.
a weapon for shooting arrows, typically made of a curved piece of wood whose ends are joined by a taut string.
synonyms: longbow, crossbow; re-curve
"an archer's bow"


No such thing as a "-Xgun"


I use all 3 weapons for hunting , cross bow, compound bow and rifles. To me there is no advantage of using a crossbow over today's new compounds.

The division and elitism in our community is alarming. How can we expect others to support our past time when there is so much division within. We are doomed.

L.S.

[Lefty-Canuck]

My comment was tongue in cheek...

LC

[dmcbride]

I have hunted with a crossbow, compound and longbow. If I was suddenly forced to choose one and my survival depended on it, compound hands down.

Why, more range, more accurate, less wieght, more maneuverable, faster follow up shots.

If crossbows get more youth and seniors in the field (which has been the case where crossbows have been allowed in the archery season) I am all for it.

Don't get me wrong I beleive bow hunters have some valid concerns. I just don't think it would be as bad as some would make it out to be judging from other places that have allowed crossbows into the archery season. That being said this is Alberta, and we are unique.

I dunno, maybe just allow youth, seniors and people who can't pull a bow to use crossbows in the archery season?

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

There are several seasons in 248, only the portions which overlap Strathcona and Leduc counties is the crossbow valid during that specific season and separate tags valid.

A bow and a crossbow as defined anywhere....are different catch my drift?

LC

Well, in the interests of being clear about things, I must point out that you can hunt with both a high powered rifle and/or a xbow in a large section of WMU 248 during the general season.
There are at least 4 different seasons that occur in 248 from Sept.1 to Dec.7 and depending what time of year it is, and the location you plan to hunt, there can be different regs to follow, some of which overlap each other.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Excaliber does not make a bow.....they make x-guns

LC

Sinner you said that bad word!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Well, in the interests of being clear about things, I must point out that you can hunt with both a high powered rifle and/or a xbow in a large section of WMU 248 during the general season.
There are at least 4 different seasons that occur in 248 from Sept.1 to Dec.7 and depending what time of year it is, and the location you plan to hunt, there can be different regs to follow, some of which overlap each other.

Wrong there is no general big game season in 248. Rifle can not be used for big game there ever.

LC

[deerguy]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I have hunted with a crossbow, compound and longbow. If I was suddenly forced to choose one and my survival depended on it, compound hands down.

Why, more range, more accurate, less wieght, more maneuverable, faster follow up shots.

If crossbows get more youth and seniors in the field (which has been the case where crossbows have been allowed in the archery season) I am all for it.

Don't get me wrong I beleive bow hunters have some valid concerns. I just don't think it would be as bad as some would make it out to be judging from other places that have allowed crossbows into the archery season. That being said this is Alberta, and we are unique.

I dunno, maybe just allow youth, seniors and people who can't pull a bow to use crossbows in the archery season?

No more people will get out with a crossbow then will get out with a gun. If someone can not pull back a bow due to an accident then by all means, they should be able to use a crossbow, but just because some guy can't be bothered to take up archery does not mean he should be able to grab a crossbow and hunt in the archery season.