Crossbows, to be or not to be

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Talking lefty Canuck would throw em for a loop.

Yup, especially if he started talking in the third person...

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I'm generally against crossbows for archery seasons because of all of the reasons ever expressed. But here's an alternative and I think it would benefit any of the string hunters.

If crossbows were allowed in archery seasons BUT at the same time there were several additional bowzones created around the province it would provide additional opportunity. Places that come to mind, are red deer, Medicine Hat, lethbridge. Any of the towns that are becoming larger urban centres could benefit from this. The loss in opportunity to current bow hunters would be made up by having more areas with archery only opportunity. Many of these areas are already very difficult to rifle hunt because of human population densities, many acerages etc. so the rifle opportunity isn't there to be lost.

Ok let's take it in another direction, what if archery zones were created to encompass a variety of Eco systems across the province. Boreal forest, parkland,mountains, foothills, prairie. So that archery could be enjoyed throughout the province for a variety of game. We might even look at archery only tags for those areas, so that the string hunters couldn't encroach onto the rifle zones if they strike out. It would eliminate the hunters who only use strings as a method of engaging the longer seasons. The hunters who would choose to hunt with strings only would be serious about it and less likely to be weekend warriors more likely to wound game through inexperience.

Everyone wins a bit and everyone loses a bit by doing the above. The biggest losers would be rifle hunters but don't jump on me yet.... as stated above lots of the areas that could be converted to bow zones aren't conducive to rifles already.

Think about it for awhile, there's not many downsides.

It's nice to see that there is room for compromise. More Archery areas, more opportunities and the inclusion of Crossbows .. well said !

[xxclaro]

Years ago, I realized it would be nice to hunt the archery season, the weather being nicer, season longer and less idiots shooting at you. I didn't own a compound or recurve, nor did I have much money. I did own a nice Excalibur crossbow though, which I couldn't use. So naturally I tried to change the regulations to suit me....or not. I saved my money, bought a bow and equipment, and then spent hours every day practicing to make sure I was ready to hunt. I'm glad I did it now, and find I enjoy both recurve and compound more than the crossbow. Without a doubt the latter is easier to pick up and use. Why else would people be clamoring to able to use them?

I was 16 when I bought mine, the guy set my 20 and 30 yard pins and I took it home. Was shooting apples at 30 yards that afternoon. Learning the compound was different. At first I thought it was pretty easy, was shooting pretty good. Then I learned what happens when you are in an awkward position or excited and your form breaks down, you torque the bow, drop your arm or a hundred other things that happen to make your shot sail off into the wild blue yonder. Not that a crossbow or even rifle are immune to this, but certainly less susceptible. I can tell you that just this year I had chances at both moose and elk that would have been relatively easy with a crossbow but couldn't get it done with compound. Trying to get that string back slowly, without being seen, while in a position you didn't expect is a real challenge. Anyway, my thoughts on the matter is leave it alone, it's workin fine. I did make sure to write to the email provided and explain my position on the matter, so thanks for providing that.

[buckstop660]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Honestly.....I think more game is lost with rifles over all else. Likely due to sheer numbers.

LC

Your still avoiding the answer. Does competency with your weapon result in less wounded and or lost animals. Therefore if crossbows are easier to be competent with, are they not a better option for the less competent, and the result would be less wounded or lost animals,

[petew]

What company are you a shill for Buckstop660 ?
I notice you just came on here from the US and have a grand total of 5 posts.
So what difference is it to you what we do in Alberta? unless you have a sales interest.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by buckstop660

Your still avoiding the answer. Does competency with your weapon result in less wounded and or lost animals. Therefore if crossbows are easier to be competent with, are they not a better option for the less competent, and the result would be less wounded or lost animals,

You keep wanting to put words in my mouth...lol

Freudian slip?...doesn't one avoid a question? Not avoid an answer?

It is the responsibility of all hunters to be competent with their weapon of choice some take longer than others To become proficient/competent and some people are more proficient with one than the other. Some people are never competent no matter what weapon they choose.

You answered your own question...why do you suppose crossbows are allowed for the handicapped or physically challenged?

LC

[winged1]

Originally Posted by buckstop660

Your still avoiding the answer. Does competency with your weapon result in less wounded and or lost animals. Therefore if crossbows are easier to be competent with, are they not a better option for the less competent, and the result would be less wounded or lost animals,

Can't agree. Your just looking at a whole new level of incompetence, multiplied as ease of use improves. I'm back on the fence.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I'm generally against crossbows for archery seasons because of all of the reasons ever expressed. But here's an alternative and I think it would benefit any of the string hunters.

If crossbows were allowed in archery seasons BUT at the same time there were several additional bowzones created around the province it would provide additional opportunity. Places that come to mind, are red deer, Medicine Hat, lethbridge. Any of the towns that are becoming larger urban centres could benefit from this. The loss in opportunity to current bow hunters would be made up by having more areas with archery only opportunity. Many of these areas are already very difficult to rifle hunt because of human population densities, many acerages etc. so the rifle opportunity isn't there to be lost.

Ok let's take it in another direction, what if archery zones were created to encompass a variety of Eco systems across the province. Boreal forest, parkland,mountains, foothills, prairie. So that archery could be enjoyed throughout the province for a variety of game. We might even look at archery only tags for those areas, so that the string hunters couldn't encroach onto the rifle zones if they strike out. It would eliminate the hunters who only use strings as a method of engaging the longer seasons. The hunters who would choose to hunt with strings only would be serious about it and less likely to be weekend warriors more likely to wound game through inexperience.

Everyone wins a bit and everyone loses a bit by doing the above. The biggest losers would be rifle hunters but don't jump on me yet.... as stated above lots of the areas that could be converted to bow zones aren't conducive to rifles already.

Think about it for awhile, there's not many downsides.

Not sure what you mean when you say we could create more bow zones. As it is now, almost every WMU that has hunting also has an archery season allready, just starts sooner in the year.
As for having more archery closer to the larger towns/cities like you mentioned, I think that is up to the county to implement, just like strathcona county does. The reason they have that additional season is because of all the vehicle vs. big game collisions that occur every year in Strath County.

By the way guys, I am getting a little tired of hearing about the "Edmonton Bow Zone". Iv'e heard it on hunting shows, and Iv'e seen it mentioned here on AO, but for the life of me I cannot figure out exactly what that means, and I have never seen it on a map.
There are places within the city limits where you can bowhunt, but they are very scarce and I doubt thats what people mean when they talk about the "Edm. Bow Zone.

[winged1]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Not sure what you mean when you say we could create more bow zones. As it is now, almost every WMU that has hunting also has an archery season allready, just starts sooner in the year.
As for having more archery closer to the larger towns/cities like you mentioned, I think that is up to the county to implement, just like strathcona county does. The reason they have that additional season is because of all the vehicle vs. big game collisions that occur every year in Strath County.

By the way guys, I am getting a little tired of hearing about the "Edmonton Bow Zone". Iv'e heard it on hunting shows, and Iv'e seen it mentioned here on AO, but for the life of me I cannot figure out exactly what that means, and I have never seen it on a map.
There are places within the city limits where you can bowhunt, but they are very scarce and I doubt thats what people mean when they talk about the "Edm. Bow Zone.

Calgary's is 212 and Edmonton's is 248

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by winged1

Calgary's is 212 and Edmonton's is 248

OK, I can live with that, even though it doesen't make sense. As long as everyone is on the same page.

[buckstop660]

Originally Posted by petew

What company are you a shill for Buckstop660 ?
I notice you just came on here from the US and have a grand total of 5 posts.
So what difference is it to you what we do in Alberta? unless you have a sales interest.

No money coming in to me from any company. I'm Retired. I'm pro archery be it verticle or crossbow. I think I explained my self in the first post I made. I have been through this battle and have watched those opposed to crossbow make claims that is no more than emotional hogwash. I see one of your members said the reason some are against inclusion is due to protectionism or selfish motives. I found your site due to comments on another forum regarding opposttion comments here . I'm here to support the guys wanting full inclusion.

Is an opinion any less valuable whether its a first post or thousands. I also have friends in Alberta. Besides Maybe I'll come hunt Alberta one day.

[ont-xbower]

Hello fellow archers.

My first post.

I live in southern Ontario and we have been able to us xbows for archery hunting for several years now.

I can understand the opposition to xbows from the vertical guys. However from what I have read if all goes well you will see full inclusion as early as the start of the 2016 deer season.

When xbows became legal here we had the below results.

A boost to revenue for additional deer seal purchases.
Elderly hunters and apprentise hunters started to bow hunt.
Deer harvest levels were increased to the mnr standards.
Increased revenue for archery shops for xbows and arrows.
Increase of non resident hunters. Revenue up.
Many of your vertical hunters will transition over to the crossbow....
Ontario crossbow hunters far exceed the vertical method.
Ontario hunters don't care what bow you use. We are all humters doing what we love to do.


I hunt with a crossbow and have done very well putting prime organic venison on the table with my crossbow.and in the end thats what its all about...

I have sent my comments in from a province that allows you to use what you want during the open archery season.

Good luck to the future crossbow hunters in Alberta. Ontario is behind you 100%....

[petew]

What does my site have to do with any of this ? Nowhere on it is there even a mention of the crossbow , good or bad, positive or negative. . Whats you point ?

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by buckstop660

No money coming in to me from any company. I'm Retired. I'm pro archery be it verticle or crossbow. I think I explained my self in the first post I made. I have been through this battle and have watched those opposed to crossbow make claims that is no more than emotional hogwash. I see one of your members said the reason some are against inclusion is due to protectionism or selfish motives. I found your site due to comments on another forum regarding opposttion comments here . I'm here to support the guys wanting full inclusion.

Is an opinion any less valuable whether its a first post or thousands. I also have friends in Alberta. Besides Maybe I'll come hunt Alberta one day.

Full inclusion will mean less opportunity for all. Adding crossbows will result in limited entry licenses for what was previously a general (over the counter) season. I would also predict the need to shorten the archery season. Crossbows = Lost Opportunity. Crossbows are a serious threat to Alberta archers.

I still support special permits for those unable to use conventional archery gear, and agree it needs to be a lot easier and less demeaning process to acquire that permit. Aside from that there is no argument that will convince me otherwise that crossbows have any place in an Alberta archery season.

[buckstop660]

Originally Posted by petew

What does my site have to do with any of this ? Nowhere on it is there even a mention of the crossbow , good or bad, positive or negative. . Whats you point ?

I should have said this site not yours. As far as your position on crossbows or inclusion, then why question mine, my lack of posts, my employment, where I live, or why I care? I hope you support crossbow inclusion and are fine with shareing the woods with another tool.

[buckstop660]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

Full inclusion will mean less opportunity for all. Adding crossbows will result in limited entry licenses for what was previously a general (over the counter) season. I would also predict the need to shorten the archery season. Crossbows = Lost Opportunity. Crossbows are a serious threat to Alberta archers.

I still support special permits for those unable to use conventional archery gear, and agree it needs to be a lot easier and less demeaning process to acquire that permit. Aside from that there is no argument that will convince me otherwise that crossbows have any place in an Alberta archery season.

I can only speak of the states and that hasnt been the experience here. Many hunters that have hunted with compounds have switched to crossbows. Does it really matter which you fill your tag with a compound or a crossbow.

Everything you just suggested is strictly a guess an opinion without any facts to back-up your claim. Read the post made by the Ontario hunter. There isnt a serious threat to Alberta or any other places that have crossbow inclusion.

[xxclaro]

Originally Posted by ont-xbower

Hello fellow archers.

My first post.

I live in southern Ontario and we have been able to us xbows for archery hunting for several years now.

I can understand the opposition to xbows from the vertical guys. However from what I have read if all goes well you will see full inclusion as early as the start of the 2016 deer season.

When xbows became legal here we had the below results.

A boost to revenue for additional deer seal purchases.
Elderly hunters and apprentise hunters started to bow hunt.
Deer harvest levels were increased to the mnr standards.
Increased revenue for archery shops for xbows and arrows.
Increase of non resident hunters. Revenue up.
Many of your vertical hunters will transition over to the crossbow....
Ontario crossbow hunters far exceed the vertical method.
Ontario hunters don't care what bow you use. We are all humters doing what we love to do.


I hunt with a crossbow and have done very well putting prime organic venison on the table with my crossbow.and in the end thats what its all about...

I have sent my comments in from a province that allows you to use what you want during the open archery season.

Good luck to the future crossbow hunters in Alberta. Ontario is behind you 100%....

Hmmmm.....another non resident with an opinion on how we should do things here, and on the very first post no less. I've hunted in Ontario, and Alberta kicks it's azz. I'd like to keep it that way.

[petew]

Originally Posted by xxclaro

Hmmmm.....another non resident with an opinion on how we should do things here, and on the very first post no less. I've hunted in Ontario, and Alberta kicks it's azz. I'd like to keep it that way.

X2
The shills are just starting to come out from under the carpet.

[Hydro1]

Originally Posted by xxclaro

Hmmmm.....another non resident with an opinion on how we should do things here, and on the very first post no less. I've hunted in Ontario, and Alberta kicks it's azz. I'd like to keep it that way.

X3.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by buckstop660

I can only speak of the states and that hasnt been the experience here. Many hunters that have hunted with compounds have switched to crossbows. Does it really matter which you fill your tag with a compound or a crossbow.

Everything you just suggested is strictly a guess an opinion without any facts to back-up your claim. Read the post made by the Ontario hunter. There isnt a serious threat to Alberta or any other places that have crossbow inclusion.

You should realize harvests within archery season DIRECTLY IMPACT, draws and tag allocation in Alberta for all hunters. So you should read up on the history of hunting and archery in Alberta further, you might understand a few things better if you do.

LC

[buckstop660]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

You should realize harvests within archery season DIRECTLY IMPACT, draws and tag allocation in Alberta for all hunters. So you should read up on the history of hunting and archery in Alberta further, you might understand a few things better if you do.

LC

Why are you convinced that crossbow inclusion will result in a increased kill to the point of adversly affecting your harvest numbers. It hasnt in the states.

[Hydro1]

Deer hunting in the states isn't near what it is in alberta.
Perhaps using how the states manages the deer populations isn't your best argument.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by buckstop660

No money coming in to me from any company. I'm Retired. I'm pro archery be it verticle or crossbow. I think I explained my self in the first post I made. I have been through this battle and have watched those opposed to crossbow make claims that is no more than emotional hogwash. I see one of your members said the reason some are against inclusion is due to protectionism or selfish motives. I found your site due to comments on another forum regarding opposttion comments here . I'm here to support the guys wanting full inclusion.

Is an opinion any less valuable whether its a first post or thousands. I also have friends in Alberta. Besides Maybe I'll come hunt Alberta one day.

Interesting fact, that most states that have Xguns, included in the archery season, also have Zero, 3 day or 10 day rifle seasons only! and archery season in the states run into January and Feb.

How many rifle days does Missouri have?

Other than whitetail what other big game species does Missouri have?

What's the estimated herd sizes in Missouri, for all big game species?

Do you believe rifle guys would give up 3 months of rifle hunting in some area's here in Alberta, just to be able to use a xgun in the archery season?

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by buckstop660

No money coming in to me from any company. I'm Retired. I'm pro archery be it verticle or crossbow. I think I explained my self in the first post I made. I have been through this battle and have watched those opposed to crossbow make claims that is no more than emotional hogwash. I see one of your members said the reason some are against inclusion is due to protectionism or selfish motives. I found your site due to comments on another forum regarding opposttion comments here . I'm here to support the guys wanting full inclusion.

Is an opinion any less valuable whether its a first post or thousands. I also have friends in Alberta. Besides Maybe I'll come hunt Alberta one day.

Let me know when you want to come up and hunt Buckstop. I'll Hunter Host you.

[waterninja]

I see nothing wrong with a fellow hunter from Ontario or even the USA putting in their nickles worth. One thing I have always liked about being on this forum is all the different ideas and opinions that are put foreward. Sometimes I read something that I had never thought of before, and whats wrong with getting input from other sources?
I honestly don't think that xbows will be the death of hunting in AB. I would say the majority of new xbow hunters are going to find out the hard way that it's not as easy as they think. I say this as a third year serious bow hunter who now can appreciate just how hard it is to get in bow range of a Deer.
I can see some problems, however, with Moose numbers declining. I hope any changes made reflect this.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by Hydro1

Deer hunting in the states isn't near what it is in alberta.
Perhaps using how the states manages the deer populations isn't your best argument.

That's for sure! In some of those states there are so many deer it is crazy. I've hunted in Michigan. From the stand I was in I counted nearly 100 deer in the fields I could see in the last hour before sunset. The farmer who's land we were on told us if we ran out of tags just come back to the cabin and he'd give us more! (Yeah, I got one )

That was in the late 90's. Michigan deer population = 6 million! Ontario's deer population at the same time was estimated at about 300,000.

[Ultimate Predator]

NO!NO!NO !to crossbows stay out of the archery season when u shoulder your weapon to shoot it should be in a general season! I'm not sure y people like these things I think it is the lack of practice needed just pick it up and shoot the scopes on. Do your selves a favor go down to your local pro shop and get set up with a real bow !!!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Lefty .. since when was the time required to become proficient the fundamental criteria for inclusion of Crossbows in the archery category ?
If that were the case I'm thinking there would be far fewer "Bowhunters" out there.

The relevance being that the number of archery hunters could increase significantly,which would likely increase the harvest, which could result in more WMUs being put on draws for some species.

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I see nothing wrong with a fellow hunter from Ontario or even the USA putting in their nickles worth. One thing I have always liked about being on this forum is all the different ideas and opinions that are put foreward. Sometimes I read something that I had never thought of before, and whats wrong with getting input from other sources?

I agree, fresh perspectives from people from vastly different geophysical or bio-diverse regions sometimes helps shake up our view of things towards something positive, or help point out a flaw that we might have just accepted as a norm. bla-bla-bla.

welcome to ao forums Missouri guy and Ontarian.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I see nothing wrong with a fellow hunter from Ontario or even the USA putting in their nickles worth. One thing I have always liked about being on this forum is all the different ideas and opinions that are put foreward. Sometimes I read something that I had never thought of before, and whats wrong with getting input from other sources?
I honestly don't think that xbows will be the death of hunting in AB. I would say the majority of new xbow hunters are going to find out the hard way that it's not as easy as they think. I say this as a third year serious bow hunter who now can appreciate just how hard it is to get in bow range of a Deer.
I can see some problems, however, with Moose numbers declining. I hope any changes made reflect this.

X2