Legalize drugs.....

[ctd]

If we could do things Ken's way then more jobs would be availible in Ft Mac for us non drug users.

After reading all the posts on here. I have come to a truthfull conclusion for myself. I don't really care enough, I have seen directly what alcoholism does to familys, I have seen what drugs to to familys, I have seen what anger issues have done to familys, I have seen what other addictions have to done to familys all first hand. They all have one common denomenator, stupidity.

Who cares. People are stupid and make stupid choices. No matter how you try to help them they will continue to make stupid choices. Not saying that drug use, or abstaining from drug use is stupid. Just people make stupid choices.

Raise your kids in an drug infested, alcohol infested, violance infested, sexual infested garbage hole and chances are they will follow at least one of your traits.

I would hope that you would want your kids and anyone else you might be a mentor for to not have the same bad habits you have. But then again maybe you don't care enough. Hiding your habits from your kids is not right as it only shows them that they can do it and get away with it.

It is like driving. We all think we drive very well. We are quick to point a finger at young kids these days and their horrible driving. Yet how and where do these youg kids learn to drive. (from the habits of their parents), From the past few years and paying attention to the people who speed the most, run red lights, dont use signals to change lanes and other bad habits. Most of those people have kids in their vehicle and the Adults are smoking and or talking on their cell phones.

Again stupid people make stupid choices.

Set the example for not only you own family but for others. If you drink do it responsibly, if you do crack, coke pot etc do it responsibly. Do not buy it in front of your kids, do not leave it laying aorund for them to get into.

[beansgunsghandi]

100 percent of the people who are now meth users started with oxygen, and definitely some nitrogen. Make 'em illegal, kill anyone using them! That makes about as much sense as saying pot caused meth addictions.

Of course those are pre-disposed to doing any sort of drug started with pot, or their own medicine cabinets, or alcohol. To say that any one of those substances caused a more serious addiction is missing the point that for whatever reason someone wanted to alter reality, and did so.

If anyone wants to read something that I guarantee will be intensely interesting no matter how you feel about drugs try Gabor Mate's, "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts." Mate is a doctor who worked Vancouver's lower east side in a clinic for years. I'm pretty sure no one will feel the same about addiction and drugs after reading that book. Life is seldom black and white.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by outwalking

I'm not defending, I'm posting my opinion just as you are. If there is a lesser of the two, yes I am of the opinion that marijuana is lower on the scale. Doesn't really matter to me if that's alright with you or not. It's an open conversation.

B&E's are less of a crime than murder. Simple solution along your same line of thought is to then stop prosecuting B&E's...save time and tax money and jail space. It is not societies fault you have a nice TV and did not invest better in a lock.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

so engineers with engineering degrees are not functioning members of society?

It is because of the middle class hypocrites saying they should be allowed to do illegal drugs when ever they want is the only reason there is a problem. Simple solution is stop buying drugs...no more problem. The fact he has to lose reality to cope underlies an emotional and mental problem. That needs to be addressed to fix his problem...because it is a problem.

Alcholics and drug addicts will always argue it is not a problem...it is a choice...right up until it kills them. Hopefully they stop or die before they kill someone else.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I used to be a social worker in the Boyle street (95th street) area of Edmonton.

I volunteered there back in about 1984/85. I helped build the community center then. Very scary area back then. I saw a group of scary women do some serious damage to a guy one day. Police did not get there in time. It was drug related.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

So if I choose to use a drug, am I the criminal or the victim?

Syco, I've seen the damage too. I used to be a social worker in the Boyle street (95th street) area of Edmonton. But the point is not whether they are harmful or not, nor whether one or the other is a "gateway drug". The issue is whether you feel you need government to make criminals of people for doing something that affects only them and no one else (don't bring up driving stoned. That's already against the law). It's really a "Hands up everyone who wants the Nanny State" issue.

There are lots of things I don't want my kids doing but don't advocate making illegal. Might as well make unprotected sex a crime. It carries a lot of risk and does a lot of damage.

You are a criminal if you do or sell drugs. Society give the user a ton of breaks to try and get clean.

If you have unprotected sex and knowingly have a VD...you can be charged with assault or attempted murder (aids) type charges. People have been found guilty and gone to jail for it. So yes...in some instances unprotected sex is a crime.

Still comes down to this question...

If you stop prosecuting...does it get worse? People quote Holland but the facts are they stopped policing long before they publically stated they won't prosecute. The laws are all still on the books. It is still illegal to use drugs...but the police just continue to turn away. They have not improved their stats. So...if drugs are easier to get...do you not see more people will get them?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by outwalking

Holy cripes, this isn't a discussion, this is a bunch of people telling a few others how it is and that is that, end of story.

I apologize, I threw in the medicinal thing as an afterthought, I'm well aware hemp doesn't have any medicinal qualities, my bad, thanks for being so quick to point it out. My point was "alternative production" or whatever the heck I actually said.

This is getting ridiculous, to insinuate that Joe Blow down the street smoking a joint and reading a gun mag (for example) in his garage after he tucked his kids into bed is directly contributing to the demise of innocent children is insane! For crying out loud people, pull your heads out of the ground. What about the jerkoff who drank a couple mickeys, went and felt up his daughter? I'm sure that's been a root cause of more than one prostitute on the street turning tricks for her next buzz.

Someone was talking about their loser journeyman who drank and smoked weed and was a complete moron. Pot and booze aside, that guy would still be a loser.

To lump pot in the same category as meth, crack, and heroin is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Apparently this view makes me scum of society, a baby killer, an enforcer of illegal activities. How about you stop going to the doctor, forget about heart surgery, write your own Will, convey your own land, spay your own dog, fix your own car, cut your own hair, because all you are doing is putting your honest money into the hands of people who are going to buy some weed and kill your children.

To not accept the consequences of your actions in doing illegal drugs shows you only have blinders on insofar as what your actions are doing to people including kids. Your financial support of the drug pushers in Calgary is not cool. You think the drug dealers are ethical? Seriously?

You need to visit the real world versus suburbia. You live in a world were you are part of the problem...not part of the solution. Rather than make excuses just openly say "to hell with society and other people...I am going to continue to corrupt the world around me because getting high is really, really, really important to me. More so than any of you and more so than any of my kids...cause it is my right and destiny". It just does not make sense.

So laws are meant to be broken. Do you poach F&W also? Seriously...what is worse...buying illegal drugs and supporting drug dealer to kids and adults versus taking an extra fish or deer now and again?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Tosh

so this is what its like being a cop talking to a bunch of drug addicts....gonna be a long conversation.....wish i had a taser gun. LOL.

ROTFLMAO... Sad but funny at the same time because to a non stoner it just does not compute. I can really see how being a cop would be very, very frustrating... Talking to a stoner in the garage while the kids are crying in the house.

[Sundancefisher]

If someone wanted an addiction...pick sex and fishing.

Then after marriage you have a strong right hand to hold the fishing rod tighter. Win/win. Complimentary addictions.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by outwalking

...yeah, decided to elaborate on this one. Just because my opinion is different than yours doesn't necessitate you lumping me in your little category of degenerates.

I'd rather see money spent getting the pimps and dealers off the streets. I'd rather see a meth lab busted than a grow show, I'd rather see a welfare bum scumbag loser get charged for posession of crack cocaine than a college charged with posession of marijuana. I'd rather a drunk driver get a DUI than someone get a photo radar ticket. I for one can't care about everything so I pick my battles. It all sucks, but some things suck more.

You can't get the dealers off the street if middle class suburbia is out buying drugs. You need to stop the market..dry it up...versus making excuses why free will means stupid choices that negatively impact society.

[pophouseman]

http://economics.about.com/od/income...galize_pot.htm

[pophouseman]

read this article and explain to me how weed is worse then alcohol:

http://www.globalregina.com/Sask+fat...765/story.html

The fact is any person can do damage with ANYTHING if they are moronic enough, but with a level head, anything can be safe.

I,for one LOVE gambling. Friday or saturday night my friends know they can find me at the casino......but guess what, I can afford to lose and I set a limit, is there a problem with this?????????? I have seen people shoving their rent money into slot machines......the problem (gambling,weed,beer etc.) is not the substance, its the idiots that lack will power. If your actions do not harm anyone other then yourself, I say do whatever you want.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

If your actions do not harm anyone other then yourself, I say do whatever you want.

So the very thing that keeps the cartels, Hell's Angels, dealers, growers, distributers etc in motion and swimming in money causes no harm to anyone?

Same answer as pro-users, my body my money my choice....

Unfortunate you are unable to see past your nose.

[Albertadiver]

Drugs hurt families. Drugs hurt individuals. Drugs are probably the single largest factor in crime whether it is over disputes, to feed an addiction, or offences committed while under the influence.

Why is there even a debate?

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

So the very thing that keeps the cartels, Hell's Angels, dealers, growers, distributers etc in motion and swimming in money causes no harm to anyone?

Same answer as pro-users, my body my money my choice....

Unfortunate you are unable to see past your nose.

Well Ken, as the orignal post questions legalizing drugs. I will answer you on your comments.

If the governement was to legalize and regulate drugs, they could regulate and tax the items at their discretion. Put the little baggies beside the beer at a government run liquor store, or dispense through a pharamacy and it would clean up more of the garbage off the street. Gangs, cartels, Hells angels (Et.Al) would then have no reason to form and no capital to operate. There would be no dealers on every corner, and their would be no laced drugs and no health concerns. (these are my sightings past my nose)

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

Drugs hurt families. Drugs hurt individuals. Drugs are probably the single largest factor in crime whether it is over disputes, to feed an addiction, or offences committed while under the influence.

Why is there even a debate?

Once Again, drugs never hurt anyone.....STUPID PEOPLE are what hurts others......... same logic as saying guns kill people

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

Once Again, drugs never hurt anyone.....STUPID PEOPLE are what hurts others......... same logic as saying guns kill people

Wrong. Drugs hurt people. Guns don't hurt people unless someone careless is operating it. Drugs hurt people regardless of who consumes it.

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

Wrong. Drugs hurt people. Guns don't hurt people unless someone careless is operating it. Drugs hurt people regardless of who consumes it.

please explain how and why...........because ill say:

WRONG. Drugs don't hurt people unless someone STUPID is using them

[TheClash]

well I would say that many people have fired a gun legally and have suffered no ill effects and no one has been harmed or laws broken in order to do so. However, any illegal drug that has been used has a). caused bodily harm to the user and b.) has caused societal harm by being grown, manufactured, processed, shipped, distributed and bought illegally.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

please explain how and why...........because ill say:

WRONG. Drugs don't hurt people unless someone STUPID is using them

Rather than me posting dozens of web links, like this one, http://listverse.com/2007/09/27/top-...their-effects/ , how about you prove that consumption of any amounts of LSD, Crack, Meth, Ecstacy, Heroin, etc. are not harmful?

The fact is, drugs hurt people. Period.

[Scott N]

My guess would be the drug alcohol has destroyed more lives than all of the illegal drugs combined.

[TheClash]

Originally Posted by Scott N

My guess would be the drug alcohol has destroyed more lives than all of the illegal drugs combined.

i'd agree with that.

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by TheClash

well I would say that many people have fired a gun legally and have suffered no ill effects and no one has been harmed or laws broken in order to do so. However, any illegal drug that has been used has a). caused bodily harm to the user and b.) has caused societal harm by being grown, manufactured, processed, shipped, distributed and bought illegally.

Allright.... ONCE AGAIN my comments assume drugs were legal. also I am sure that many times people have fired guns legally and have suffered ill effects, you guys like to use circular logic...don't you? Also, please explain how drugs cause any more "bodily harm" to the user the tobacco???

Explain to me how the following is harmful to me or anyone else.

Lets say I have No kids and no wife at home. I get home from work, smoke a joint i bought from the government store (the tax dollars used to build a new school say) hop in the shower and order a pizza. I rent a movie and watch it knowing i will be perfectly sober to drive to work in 12 hours. I go to sleep and wake up for another productive day at the office.

NOW................................ GO






Tobacco is WWWAAAAYYYYY worse for your body then marijuana. and alcohol's affects are more potent to good judgement as well. If we could jail idiots...then we would be onto something............

.Diver, what I am saying is no object/substance independant of a stupid person's judgement is dangerous. a knife is fine in the kitchen, give to a moron to run down some stairs and you could have a harmful situation...you dig??

[TheClash]

the point is they are not legal...other than that I agree with your comments they are no more harmful than alcohol and tobacco.....and i am saying that I think ALL of them are harmful from the get go. meaning that everyone that tries them suffers negative effects from them. I hate them all.

if they were legal then i would have just as much problem with users and abusers of them as I do with the products you have mentioned.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

Well Ken, as the orignal post questions legalizing drugs. I will answer you on your comments.

If the governement was to legalize and regulate drugs, they could regulate and tax the items at their discretion. Put the little baggies beside the beer at a government run liquor store, or dispense through a pharamacy and it would clean up more of the garbage off the street. Gangs, cartels, Hells angels (Et.Al) would then have no reason to form and no capital to operate. There would be no dealers on every corner, and their would be no laced drugs and no health concerns. (these are my sightings past my nose)

You are blinded to the big picture. You have to keep your eyes off the joint. If you take away just pot from drug dealers...you open up pot to a wider audience. The customer base for drug dealers to move up to hard drugs increases. They now need to sell even harder and they will. So you want to legalize pot...there is a clear link then to legalizing other hard drugs...now everything is legal...so where is the deterent to try it at least once? Easier to find...easier to use...probably sold as safer...government approved. Great...so you think you made society safer? Seriously?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

Once Again, drugs never hurt anyone.....STUPID PEOPLE are what hurts others......... same logic as saying guns kill people

So as a society you are saying...hey...let's make it easier to hurt people or let people hurt themselves? So why spend money making cars safer, furnaces safer, toys safer? China makes a ton of things cheaper...dry wall with formaldahyde...great...milk with melamine...yum...toys with lead...fun!

Stupid kids get what they deserve if they get the dangerous toys that choke them.

If all people were smart...then no body would use pot. Unfortunately there is a dumb segment to the population that do need to be told not to shoot themselves by accident or on purpose. Society does that for the greater good because there is a cost to social problems.

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

You are blinded to the big picture. You have to keep your eyes off the joint. If you take away just pot from drug dealers...you open up pot to a wider audience. The customer base for drug dealers to move up to hard drugs increases. They now need to sell even harder and they will. So you want to legalize pot...there is a clear link then to legalizing other hard drugs...now everything is legal...so where is the deterent to try it at least once? Easier to find...easier to use...probably sold as safer...government approved. Great...so you think you made society safer? Seriously?

I am saying Legalize all drugs, cut the dealers and growers off at the knees. just because it is legal doesn't mean you HAVE to do it. I don't smoke or chew tobacco, but it is legal so maybe I should start .....no, i am smarter then that............ IF a person does not have the common sense or smarts to stay away from something harmful.....couldn't we almost call that natural selection.....If a junkie wants some meth, Give it to him legally...then your neighbours house won't burn down your house after it's underground meth lab explodes..........which may be helpful to society.....maybe

[pophouseman]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

So as a society you are saying...hey...let's make it easier to hurt people or let people hurt themselves? So why spend money making cars safer, furnaces safer, toys safer? China makes a ton of things cheaper...dry wall with formaldahyde...great...milk with melamine...yum...toys with lead...fun!

Stupid kids get what they deserve if they get the dangerous toys that choke them.

If all people were smart...then no body would use pot. Unfortunately there is a dumb segment to the population that do need to be told not to shoot themselves by accident or on purpose. Society does that for the greater good because there is a cost to social problems.

Once again you are putting words in my mouth. All I have said is no THING is inherently dangerous, the danger comes from the user (re:idiot) Make a car as safe as you want, the moron texting while going 120 kph in a school zone is still going to kill someone...is it the cars fault?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Scott N

My guess would be the drug alcohol has destroyed more lives than all of the illegal drugs combined.

Tell that to all the people in Mexico that get killed by the dozens or the millions using Afgani heroin, or the millions on crack and meth in the US.

In some respects...alcohol is as bad or worse then drug addiction today...so your solution is to make drugs more accessible like alcohol is? What do you think would happen to your statistics? Is drug addiction going to rise or fall related to alcohol addiction? A buddy of mine suffering depression started drinking. Then unfortunately met the wrong woman at the wrong time at a bar that sold crack. Next thing he lost 50 lbs, his job, his family and almost lost his life or ended up in jail. For all the depressed people drinking...I hope you lose and they don't get even easier access to drugs.

So alcohol is bad...are you suggesting we should just ignore illegal drugs?

I don't get your point either.

[winged1]

with the tonnage of drugs moving north across the US/Mexican border, and sufficient firearms moving south to make it all happen, I doubt that those on the inside have any desire to share thier wealth through legalization.

I personally believe that pot is an equal to alcohol in regards to impairment. I don't consider it a 'gateway' drug, no more so than nicotine or alcohol. I do feel however that regular users could better apply thier resources in regards to lifestyles. Legalized drugs, including prescriptions, are as bad in many cases.

A buddy of mine suffering depression started drinking. Then unfortunately met the wrong woman at the wrong time at a bar that sold crack. Next thing he lost 50 lbs, his job, his family and almost lost his life or ended up in jail.

Exact same story as my brother in law, except he committed suicide.