Pigeon Lake Fisheries Management Plan

Rob Miskosky · #1 02-18-2009, 01:54 PM

PUBLIC MEETING
Review of the Proposed Management Plan and Fishing Regulations for Pigeon Lake and an opportunity to provide feedback.

Alberta Sustainable Resource Development
Fish and Wildlife Division
Fisheries Management Branch, Red Deer
Will be Hosting Two Public Meetings:

FIRST MEETING:
When: March 3, 2009, 7:00pm
Where: Nisku Inn, 1101-4th St. Nisku AB.

SECOND MEETING:
When: March 5, 2009, 7:00pm
Where: Wayside Inn, 4103-56th St. Wetaskiwin AB

BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES · #2 02-18-2009, 01:55 PM

Count me in , Might be my chance to actually speak to the people that matter instead of sending letters with no reply . Im there .Hopefully we can get others out .

BigRackLover · #3 02-18-2009, 04:39 PM

Is the proposed plan available to review before the meeting? If so, where can I find it?

BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES · #4 02-18-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

Is the proposed plan available to review before the meeting? If so, where can I find it?

Ive been looking also , but nothing , Makes me wonder where these people hear that there going to put a bait ban on Pigeon well here's the 2009 proposed changes and there's nothing stated .And nothing about Pigeon lake ither .

http://srd.alberta.ca/fishwildlife/f...ble_100608.pdf

Rockymtnx · #5 02-26-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGBADJOHN

Ive been looking also , but nothing , Makes me wonder where these people hear that there going to put a bait ban on Pigeon well here's the 2009 proposed changes and there's nothing stated .And nothing about Pigeon lake ither .
http://srd.alberta.ca/fishwildlife/f...ble_100608.pdf

BBJ, you better make sure you can attend a meeting.
I think there is going to be many disappointed anglers (including myself) with what is going to be announced. It sure is being kept hush hush. Remember they aren't just holding a public meeting for the good of their health.

Unfortunately I won't be able to attend these meetings. So you boys make sure to voice your opinion for me.

bowbow · #6 03-02-2009, 02:43 AM

You know. I dont post much on here but I am going to give my thoughts on all this talk about bait bans, tag systems and all that great stuff.

Personally, I think its a great idea because in my mind all across Alberta needs help and bad. Ive noticed in my experience that during the warm months you rarely see as many fish being kept and taken home and the ice season you theres fish on the lake everywhere. People are keeping fish left and right and I do not understand why. Our lakes are small and the few lakes that have good numbers of big fish are all taken home and in a few years its near impossible to find good fishing. I know of this from a few lakes that Ive fished often over the years. I think that us as fisherman(woman) need to regulate ourselves on keeping fish because i know that theres alot of people who may take their limit of pike home and then go out the next weekend and keep another 3 pike... while there are fish in the freezer.
Support Catch and Release, I cant stress it enough.
(I just kept 2 walleye from a lake that 3 can be kept for the first time in 5 years or more, because i wanted to eat walleye)
Now, along with this bait ban.. I dont see why this would want to be in affect unless they really want it to be a trophy lake and are trying to do the same sort of things like trout lakes.
I am going to try pretty hard to go and listen to what they have to talk about and what it is they want to get as a response from the anglers. As for Pigeon lake, I think a lot more than just a bait ban has to be in effect... that lake is in trouble...
Regardless, it wont bother me if lakes are catch and release only and as for a bait ban.. I am pretty sure I can get over that and use the artificial lures that are out there to catch fish.
But I think that the anglers need to work together on this more than rely on fish and wildlife. They know the biology and populations and how to control that aspect of the lakes so why dont we encourage some catch and release.

** Do they want a bait ban so that fewer number of fish are caught, which in turn means more fish are released healthy rather than risk that chance of later dieing after the release?

Thanks guys.

BigRackLover · #7 03-02-2009, 11:16 AM

So is that the official rumor? Bait Ban? What else? Do you have any evidence? Example a document or annoucment?

bowbow · #8 03-02-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

So is that the official rumor? Bait Ban? What else? Do you have any evidence? Example a document or annoucment?

I have no idea, Im trying to figure that out too I jut gave my little opinion on it, thats all.

BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES · #9 03-02-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRackLover

So is that the official rumor? Bait Ban? What else? Do you have any evidence? Example a document or annoucment?

Ive heard that rumor for the past two years . I don't think it holds any truth to it .

happy perch fisher · #10 03-02-2009, 05:09 PM

A bait ban is a great thing for pigion lake. Do you really need bait during the summer to catch walleye out of pigion. A plain white jig will do the same thing. During the winter it will do huge things for pike whitefish and burbot and the few perch left. Whitefish and burbot will distractly lower the number of fish caught. Way less pike will be hooked deeper and this will result in less people ripping there 2 dollars rigs out of there throuts. I would rather see full catch and release put into effect. But that can never happen. Because of all the old whitefish fisherman would have a riot so there just making it extermly hard to catch them. But i think its to late anyhow the whitefish are finished only the really old big fish remain. All the huge pike that where in pigion are almost all gone and the number of smaller pike are dropping ever year. The burbot have surived the 80's to 90's masscures of them being tossed on the ice. But are now fulling victim to people actually targeting them and there number are way way way down. The perch are basically removed altogther there was still some big guys hanging around in deep water. But a certian group of guys have been hammering them 4 years and there basically gone now. The stocker walleye have'nt been spawning and alot of orignal walleye the ones that spawn in the river have suffered massive losses to the numbers via the tags. Basically all the walleye over 21inches where the walleye that where the orignal walleye. So when the first year of tags came for 1 over 50cm they basically all got removed. So basically all the walleye in pigion lake are from the same genration the stocker genration. The few orignal walleye that are able to spawn are to few in number and there fry just end up as prey for the stockers just like every genration. Also the stockers are around 8-9 years old so they only have a few more years to go. So basically the fishing is going to get alot worse over the next few years. Theres not much that can be done except massivly stocking but they lack the fish and the money to do that. So like i said its going to get alot worse.

BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES · #11 03-06-2009, 11:43 PM

Did anyone make it to the meeting yesterday ? Wondering what sorts of idea's were brought up.

fish-man · #12 03-07-2009, 03:04 PM

Bait ban?

Has the fishing gotten that much worse in Pigeon the last couple of years? I remember catching walleye at will; the problem wasn't too few of them but too many, with not enough food.

BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES · #13 03-09-2009, 11:22 AM

Here folks I was able to get the data that was handed out at meetings and am posting it for everyone to view.

budd77 · #14 03-09-2009, 12:46 PM

If a bait ban was implemented on Pigeon Lake what would the walleye eat? If you take away the millions of tubs of minnows the walleye will completly clean out everything that swims including walleye fry.

BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES · #15 03-09-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budd77

If a bait ban was implemented on Pigeon Lake what would the walleye eat? If you take away the millions of tubs of minnows the walleye will completly clean out everything that swims including walleye fry.

All the thousands upon thousands of perch they say there are in the lake .

budd77 · #16 03-09-2009, 03:00 PM

If there are all these perch why aren't they eating them now? If a bait ban is put in place will they send a message to all the walleye that they have to start eating perch now and maybe instructions on how to catch and eat perch. I know this is a stupid idea but an even more stupid idea would be implemnting a bait ban. If there is such a high number of walleye(which there is) and they are stunting because of lack of food it would be alot better to either issue more tags or open the lake till the walleye numbers have dropped to a point that the lake can support itself. What would a bait ban do to help this. Yes catch and release fishing kills some fish and using bait catches more fish but if some fish don't die and keep reproducing even at a low rate and no additional food species are stocked the walleyes will starve and become more stunted. I've seen skinny pigeon walleye. Take their alternative food source(minnows from fishermen) and you can only imagine how skinny they will get

BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES · #17 03-09-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budd77

If there are all these perch why aren't they eating them now? If a bait ban is put in place will they send a message to all the walleye that they have to start eating perch now and maybe instructions on how to catch and eat perch. I know this is a stupid idea but an even more stupid idea would be implemnting a bait ban. If there is such a high number of walleye(which there is) and they are stunting because of lack of food it would be alot better to either issue more tags or open the lake till the walleye numbers have dropped to a point that the lake can support itself. What would a bait ban do to help this. Yes catch and release fishing kills some fish and using bait catches more fish but if some fish don't die and keep reproducing even at a low rate and no additional food species are stocked the walleyes will starve and become more stunted. I've seen skinny pigeon walleye. Take their alternative food source(minnows from fishermen) and you can only imagine how skinny they will get

There reasoning for the bait ban is to limit the risk and mortality rate of the walleye from taking the bait to deep . This is what there thinking is . Ive only ever seen 2 dead fish in that lake .... But they magically say theres thousands of them .... WHERE .

fish-man · #18 03-09-2009, 05:30 PM

I used to fish Pigeon with minnows and jig head all the time. I don't remember deep-hooking a single fish, almost all of them could be released in about 2 seconds.

I repeat, is Pigeon seriously experiencing a shortage of walleye? When I was last there 2 years ago the problem was too many of them.

happy perch fisher · #19 03-09-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budd77

If there are all these perch why aren't they eating them now? If a bait ban is put in place will they send a message to all the walleye that they have to start eating perch now and maybe instructions on how to catch and eat perch. I know this is a stupid idea but an even more stupid idea would be implemnting a bait ban. If there is such a high number of walleye(which there is) and they are stunting because of lack of food it would be alot better to either issue more tags or open the lake till the walleye numbers have dropped to a point that the lake can support itself. What would a bait ban do to help this. Yes catch and release fishing kills some fish and using bait catches more fish but if some fish don't die and keep reproducing even at a low rate and no additional food species are stocked the walleyes will starve and become more stunted. I've seen skinny pigeon walleye. Take their alternative food source(minnows from fishermen) and you can only imagine how skinny they will get

While its been 6 days i guess i got explain it agian.

Walleye numbers are slowly declining in pigion its not noticable yet. Probably won't be for 2 years. I would say over 90 percent of the fish are stockers that have'nt been spawning. The fish from the 1990's where the ones spawning in the creek. The last genration of stockers where giving specail habbit in pigion lake in the hopes they would spawn there. While they have'nt been. Most of the orignal walleye have been removed by the tags and the few that are spawning in bewteen 17-20inch range are slowly being removed by the tags. Also most of there fry are being eaten by the stocker walleye. So very small walleye are being added to the population. So basically when the stockers start to die there numbers will drop rapidly down. There is a ton of catch and release mortatlity. How many guys u see just horking the walleye out of the water by just lifting with there rod. You probably reducded there chance of survival from 98to90 percent and if there hooked in the gill there probably only a 25 percent chance of them suriving. Theres tons of inexperenced anglers that have little fish handling experince that probably drop them on the side of the boat a couple time rip the jig out by just pulling straight and more stuff like that. What about the guys using barb hooks. There are so many people that do that. Which is so stupid because its not like u can't just drop your jig down and get another one. Slip bobbers are a really bad thing 2 if your not watching them at all times the walleye will just take it deep. I've seen that happen so many times. Most people will just yank it out so they won't have to retie there hook. Then there release it swimming half sideways swimming down. Now theres pike during winter. There trying to allow pike to grow to a big size and allow them to spawn more. While guess what going to happen people will just nail them with tipup. There never get to those sizes. Because the pike will take the bait into the gills and people won't want to lose there 3-5 dollar pike rigs so there just yank and release the 30+ some inch all bloddy pike back down the hole so it can die. I would say 40+ inch one but 98percent of people are going to keep it for its meat and also so they can brag to everyone. A bait ban is going to do huge things for that lake. If you can't catch a walleye at pigion without bait you sould stop fishing because you apparently are the one worse fisherman i ever seen or heard about. I've tossed a rock tied to a hook down there and have caught a walleye just by sturring up the ground. I didn't know why people can't just accept that its going to good things for the lake.

budd77 · #20 03-09-2009, 09:28 PM

It doesn't have anything to do with being able to catch fish. My buddy and i have hung a bare jig 6' down over 18' of water and still caught them. No you don't need bait to catch but the walleyes have to eat something. For the reasons you give they should implement a bait ban province wide. No minnows, leaches, crawlers, maggets, power bait, or gulp. You can save the f'n pike so that they spawn so the walleye will have little pike to eat. And as far a hooking mortality I've caught 1000's of pigeon walleye and i can't ever remember killing one from it swallowing a jig.

happy perch fisher · #21 03-09-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budd77

It doesn't have anything to do with being able to catch fish. My buddy and i have hung a bare jig 6' down over 18' of water and still caught them. No you don't need bait to catch but the walleyes have to eat something. For the reasons you give they should implement a bait ban province wide. No minnows, leaches, crawlers, maggets, power bait, or gulp. You can save the f'n pike so that they spawn so the walleye will have little pike to eat. And as far a hooking mortality I've caught 1000's of pigeon walleye and i can't ever remember killing one from it swallowing a jig.

Wow just wow you acctually bielve that the walleye live off the minnows the fall off your hook and that if a bait ban is put in place that they will die of starvation

. No point in responding to the rest of your post because your clearly uneducated about alberta fisherys.

budd77 · #22 03-09-2009, 10:14 PM

No food to begin with. have ate themselves out of house and home and probably will continue to do so. If you ever fished pigeon you would realize these fish are hungry.

happy perch fisher · #23 03-10-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budd77

No food to begin with. have ate themselves out of house and home and probably will continue to do so. If you ever fished pigeon you would realize these fish are hungry.

There not straving there not in the best of shape but there certianly are not straving.

pdfish · #24 03-10-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy perch fisher

While its been 6 days i guess i got explain it agian.

Walleye numbers are slowly declining in pigion its not noticable yet. Probably won't be for 2 years. I would say over 90 percent of the fish are stockers that have'nt been spawning. The fish from the 1990's where the ones spawning in the creek. The last genration of stockers where giving specail habbit in pigion lake in the hopes they would spawn there. While they have'nt been. Most of the orignal walleye have been removed by the tags and the few that are spawning in bewteen 17-20inch range are slowly being removed by the tags. Also most of there fry are being eaten by the stocker walleye. So very small walleye are being added to the population. So basically when the stockers start to die there numbers will drop rapidly down. There is a ton of catch and release mortatlity. How many guys u see just horking the walleye out of the water by just lifting with there rod. You probably reducded there chance of survival from 98to90 percent and if there hooked in the gill there probably only a 25 percent chance of them suriving. Theres tons of inexperenced anglers that have little fish handling experince that probably drop them on the side of the boat a couple time rip the jig out by just pulling straight and more stuff like that. What about the guys using barb hooks. There are so many people that do that. Which is so stupid because its not like u can't just drop your jig down and get another one. Slip bobbers are a really bad thing 2 if your not watching them at all times the walleye will just take it deep. I've seen that happen so many times. Most people will just yank it out so they won't have to retie there hook. Then there release it swimming half sideways swimming down. Now theres pike during winter. There trying to allow pike to grow to a big size and allow them to spawn more. While guess what going to happen people will just nail them with tipup. There never get to those sizes. Because the pike will take the bait into the gills and people won't want to lose there 3-5 dollar pike rigs so there just yank and release the 30+ some inch all bloddy pike back down the hole so it can die. I would say 40+ inch one but 98percent of people are going to keep it for its meat and also so they can brag to everyone. A bait ban is going to do huge things for that lake. If you can't catch a walleye at pigion without bait you sould stop fishing because you apparently are the one worse fisherman i ever seen or heard about. I've tossed a rock tied to a hook down there and have caught a walleye just by sturring up the ground. I didn't know why people can't just accept that its going to good things for the lake.

From item #3 of the Fisheries management plan, and I quote "In 2003, index netting surveys determined that only two percent of walleye in Pigeon Lake were hatched naturally, and the remainder were stocked fish. By 2008, the percentage of naturally born walleye had increased to 46 per cent." So, you're refuting Fisheries Management claim that 46% were born naturally, thereby indicating that the "stockers" are indeed spawning? Sorry, I gotta believe the SRD has more in-depth and accurate ways of measuring this than yourself.

happy perch fisher · #25 03-10-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdfish

From item #3 of the Fisheries management plan, and I quote "In 2003, index netting surveys determined that only two percent of walleye in Pigeon Lake were hatched naturally, and the remainder were stocked fish. By 2008, the percentage of naturally born walleye had increased to 46 per cent." So, you're refuting Fisheries Management claim that 46% were born naturally, thereby indicating that the "stockers" are indeed spawning? Sorry, I gotta believe the SRD has more in-depth and accurate ways of measuring this than yourself.

I can't really explain this because i didn't want reveal everything because that would give away some info that i didn't want to spread around regarding those stockers. But a easy way to figure it out is by looking at the number of small walleye you catch compared to over 17 ones. Probably 50-1 If it was 46 percent there would be a hell of alot more small walleye. I can prove it but doing so would give away info that i didn't want everyone to know.

pdfish · #26 03-11-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy perch fisher

I can't really explain this because i didn't want reveal everything because that would give away some info that i didn't want to spread around regarding those stockers. But a easy way to figure it out is by looking at the number of small walleye you catch compared to over 17 ones. Probably 50-1 If it was 46 percent there would be a hell of alot more small walleye. I can prove it but doing so would give away info that i didn't want everyone to know.

I think you should reveal your beliefs/info so that everyone can see where you're basing your hypothesis from. Its not like its tough to catch walleye in pigeon, I don't think people need tips to do that. And in the years and years I've been fishing pigeon (roughly 17), I've only caught probably a dozen "small" walleye under the 17 inch mark.

SNAPFisher · #27 03-11-2009, 04:45 PM

Personally HPF, I think you are absolutely full of s__t. It is hard to believe the way you berate your fellow poster here only to reveal you are somehow...wise and have access to information you cannot reveal....give me a BREAK!!

A couple of times out this ice season I have been surprised by walleye under 12 inches. I have caught a handful of tiny walleye this year. The smallest was about 8 inches. That is the first time I have caught some smaller sizes out of there. Seems to be some more natural reproduction occurring...that or I was just in the right place a bunch of times....or wrong place if your looking for hawgs.

happy perch fisher · #28 03-11-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

Personally HPF, I think you are absolutely full of s__t. It is hard to believe the way you berate your fellow poster here only to reveal you are somehow...wise and have access to information you cannot reveal....give me a BREAK!!

A couple of times out this ice season I have been surprised by walleye under 12 inches. I have caught a handful of tiny walleye this year. The smallest was about 8 inches. That is the first time I have caught some smaller sizes out of there. Seems to be some more natural reproduction occurring...that or I was just in the right place a bunch of times....or wrong place if your looking for hawgs.

I'm not going to reveal anything. You can think whatever you want snapfisher i could care less. I'm not going to post info on here that 1000's of people are going to read then spread around.

budd77 · #29 03-12-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

Personally HPF, I think you are absolutely full of s__t. It is hard to believe the way you berate your fellow poster here only to reveal you are somehow...wise and have access to information you cannot reveal....give me a BREAK!!

A couple of times out this ice season I have been surprised by walleye under 12 inches. I have caught a handful of tiny walleye this year. The smallest was about 8 inches. That is the first time I have caught some smaller sizes out of there. Seems to be some more natural reproduction occurring...that or I was just in the right place a bunch of times....or wrong place if your looking for hawgs.

I agree 100%

Don Meredith · #30 03-16-2009, 06:22 AM

Those of you interested should read the background information and take the survey at My Wild Alberta. It closes March 31!