Grazing Lease Access Denied

[crawfish]

So called a leaseholder tonight that has a lease next to a property I frequently hunt. Asked kindly for permission during bow season, as last season I saw two large herds in there. He told me no, because all bow hunting does is stir up the elk and then you cant get them in rifle season.... I proceeded to ask if he has cattle out during bow season and he said no. I didn't want to argue with him and **** him off, but I know that he can't deny access unless he does... He even said hunting should be allowed year round because there are too many elk....

Normally I would just leave it and hunt elsewhere, but I really want permission as I know my chances in there are really good, just wondering if I should pursue this farther (call F&W?) or just access the lease anyways. (would this be legal, as I let him know my intentions and he doesn't have a reason to not allow?) The lease is in the middle of nowhere, and I access it from nowhere near his land.

sorry for the rant, I just hate when leaseholders try to deny our access to crown land....

[ryeguy21]

there are 100000 million threads on this already. Did you care to try the search function?

[Bub]

Originally Posted by ryeguy21

there are 100000 million threads on this already.

Pretty sure with the exact same thread name too

[Slicktricker]

I don't get why this gets asked so much it's not hard to understand lease land
If there's cattle or any harvest and not on foot don't go, if non of the above call and say hey going in have good day cannot stop you if on foot and non of the above are on the lease land

[JWCalgary]

Call the settlement officer and escalate.

Sent from my SM-G530W using Tapatalk

[spellswrong]

Originally Posted by Slicktricker

I don't get why this gets asked so much it's not hard to understand lease land
If there's cattle or any harvest and not on foot don't go, if non of the above call and say hey going in have good day cannot stop you if on foot and non of the above are on the lease land

True technically you're allowed to go on but its better to call into you county land management office. They will file the complaint and notify the lease holder if they deny you entry again make sure to keep track of when you call and what they said and keep pushing. It will go on the lease holders file and it makes it easier as time goes on for people to get quick easy access.

Side note youre supposed to notify the lease holder when you plan to be on the land and they can ask how many people in youre party (they cannot limit the number) give them a range sept 20-27 for example. Time and time again ive had lease holders that have denied access "randomly" check fences while ive been on their property

[dustinjoels]

I've read all the threads before and was just wondering if anyone has escalated the situation and then the lease holder just throws a cow or two in there to stop access?

[crawfish]

Originally Posted by ryeguy21

there are 100000 million threads on this already. Did you care to try the search function?

While I understand it's been asked before, I have yet to see an a full clear answer to whether anyone has been charged for accessing a lease that has been denied access to for illegimate reasons such as mine. Just looking for a clear answer to this specific case, or what the lease authorities would have to say? Sorry for asking a question that you didn't have to read...?

[Johnnyg313]

I look forward to this posting every year. Cheap entertainment!!!😆

[Dune12]

First off, tell the rest of the people getting after you about this post to take a hike. A brother is in need, just be kind...geez. Legally, there is no reason to deny you to the land. You cannot be charged in anyway for accessing the land without his permission. I would personally just access the land and be done with it. But if you are still needing some peace of mind, call the RCMP, not F&W. They are totally separate entities.

[LKILR]

Tell him if he don't let you in your Gona post the legal land description on AO and he will have 100 hunters to deal with instead of just you .

[shootermcgavin]

Call the settlement officer and escalate. This is a fight worth fighting for imo... As far as I'm concerned we shouldn't even have to ask. Such a bull crap system!

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by shootermcgavin

Call the settlement officer and escalate. This is a fight worth fighting for imo... As far as I'm concerned we shouldn't even have to ask. Such a bull crap system!

I agree. But I don't mind contacting the lease holder first to see what activity they are using the land for. If they have livestock on then I decline access for rifle hunting. When I'm denied access for no good reason I proceed and let the leaseholder contact the land manager or authorities

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Slicktricker

I don't get why this gets asked so much it's not hard to understand lease land
If there's cattle or any harvest and not on foot don't go, if non of the above call and say hey going in have good day cannot stop you if on foot and non of the above are on the lease land

Not totally true, if it is dry out and fire restrictions are on you can be denied access as well.

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Not totally true, if it is dry out and fire restrictions are on you can be denied access as well.

Yup. We agree on that!

[buschy03]

If he or she doesn't want you on there, stay out of there, respect the lease holder, go find somewhere else to hunt, leave it alone....not that important all your going to do is make for some bad relations and perhaps screw it up for the next guy..

[leeelmer]

This has happened to me before.
Easy fix, look up your local grazing lease management on the internet.
It will give you a list of contacts for your area.
Typically it will be the grazing lease agrologist.
They will contact the lease holder and explain that they cannot deny you access.
The agrologist will call you back and let you know how it went, then call the lease holder again.
NOw if they still deny you access, then the agrologist will give a dispute resolution form to fill out.
You sent it in, and they will assign a dispute resolution officer(land settlement officer) to the case, and he will contact both parties, and give a binding decision in writing to you most likely giving you access. and you wont have to deal with the lease holder again on this issue.
Also to note:
If the lease holder leaves his cattle on the lease for the sole purpose of not allowing hunters in hunting season. ANd you can prove this EG: grass is not good for cattle(not enough) lease holder feeding cows on lease. Those types of things. THe land settlement officer can change the lease to cows not allowed on after a certain date: like October31
I have been threw this a few times.
NOt many problems with lease holders. But there always seams to be one.
ANd yes this is a hill I will die on, every time.
It is crown land, and the lease holder only leases the right to graze livestock, or put in a crop.
Anyone can give me a PM and I will give you my number and explain the process in grater detail.

[The moose]

If his reasons are because it "stirs up elk for rifle season" then I would look to escalate.
I am usually one here to back the leaseholders as many have very valid reasons for denying access or already have a group of hunters in area and more would just reduce success rate for everyone and be fruitless.

To me this sounds like the gentleman does not archery hunt and wants to use it as a personal hunting location come rifle season. If so, gentlemen like this cause trouble for all persons looking to enter lease as well as trouble for leaser's

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by buschy03

If he or she doesn't want you on there, stay out of there, respect the lease holder, go find somewhere else to hunt, leave it alone....not that important all your going to do is make for some bad relations and perhaps screw it up for the next guy..

so your suggestion is to bend over and take it?

[The moose]

one other thing to note is the relationship between the landowner you currently are hunting on and the lease holder. Its possible starting into it with one causes problems with the other. Speak to the landowner in which you are using the land and get their take. Can only help, and possible gets you in without escalation

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by The moose

one other thing to note is the relationship between the landowner you currently are hunting on and the lease holder. Its possible starting into it with one causes problems with the other. Speak to the landowner in which you are using the land and get their take. Can only help, and possible gets you in without escalation

technically speaking this person is the owner, it's public land.

[Husty]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

technically speaking this person is the owner, it's public land.

Its lease land, its not his, its owned by her Majesty the Queen in right of Alberta under the care of whoever provincially oversees it. The Queen is just being kind enough to let us use it

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Husty

Its lease land, its not his, its owned by her Majesty the Queen in right of Alberta under the care of whoever provincially oversees it. The Queen is just being kind enough to let us use it

although called "crown land" it's not owned by the crown. it's either federally or provincially owned.

[dustinjoels]

Originally Posted by The moose

one other thing to note is the relationship between the landowner you currently are hunting on and the lease holder. Its possible starting into it with one causes problems with the other. Speak to the landowner in which you are using the land and get their take. Can only help, and possible gets you in without escalation

This is exactly why I would never escalate a situation in regards to accessing lease land around where I normally hunt. Farmers talk and are oftentimes a close knit community. Anger the leaseholder and he complains to all his neighbors and guess what, maybe that farmer whose private land you had access to says no next fall when you ask him.

In no way am I saying that we shouldn't be able to access the lease land, but you better sure escalating the situation is worth it.

[andy1]

omg!

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by dustinjoels

This is exactly why I would never escalate a situation in regards to accessing lease land around where I normally hunt. Farmers talk and are oftentimes a close knit community. Anger the leaseholder and he complains to all his neighbors and guess what, maybe that farmer whose private land you had access to says no next fall when you ask him.

In no way am I saying that we shouldn't be able to access the lease land, but you better sure escalating the situation is worth it.

My experience is completely the opposite.

I know a place well where neighbouring landowners often experience elk issues because of the difficult hunting access to a grazing lease. They are ****ed at the rancher who has created an elk sanctuary. Herds have grow enormously and the problem is significant.

The neighbours love a person who will escalate the access process in order to hunt these elk.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

My experience is completely the opposite.

I know a place well where neighbouring landowners often experience elk issues because of the difficult hunting access to a grazing lease. They are ****ed at the rancher who has created an elk sanctuary. Herds have grow enormously and the problem is significant.

The neighbours love a person who will escalate the access process in order to hunt these elk.

mine too.

often when someone is a jerk to you, they're a jerk to everyone.

[Bub]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

often when someone is a jerk to you, they're a jerk to everyone.

Couldn't agree more.
And if the surrounding landowners follow his/her lead, I wouldn't want anything to do with those people anyway.

[crawfish]

thanks to everyone who took the time to reply / pm me, your insight is much appreciated!