Voluntary Creel Surveys

[Daceminnow]

So, given the opportunity would you be open and willing to participate in voluntary creel surveys to help improve Alberta’s fishery. Assuming all data collected from you “Joe Angler” would end up in the proper hands (SRD/F&W/Biologists). The survey would include simple yet imperative information such as catch success , length of catch, species, general appearance of catch, hours fished, and location fished on the body of water. Keep in mind this survey would need to be very user friendly c/w online accessible, printable on the water data recording sheets as well as the ability for participants to register their findings online. If need be I’m sure one or both of our existing fish conservation organizations such as Walleye Unlimited or Trout Unlimited could be involved. It has been done to some extent in the past. Easy. For those of you that are unfamiliar with a typical creel survey I’ve found a good definition, and completed result info in the link below from a US DNR site as well as a link to completed results from a creel survey done at Lake Of The Woods here in Canada to help influence your decision.


http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fis...eelsurvey.html

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodcons...nr_e005404.pdf


Dace

[Gust]

Yes, I would do one everytime I went out. I also know some code writers who could create a simple user platform/survey with instant stats even complex stat call up,,, would it be autonomous from SRD or to SRD or on the Dace webpage, AO?

Hey Dace, you finally succumbed to the poll,,, all hail the poll!!!

[Okotokian]

Is this just a hypothetical "would you" question because you are curious, or are you really trying to make this happen? It's not really clear. If the latter, what is your position or role in all this? Do you work for SRD or something? Thanks.

[MoFugger21]

Yes!

And actually, in my last email to Terry Clayton last week, I asked him if there had been any thought put forward by the SRD to do something like this. Unfortunately, I have yet to receive a response to that email, so I can't comment on what he said....

[BeeGuy]

What would the value of this data be?

I could see that it may identify the economic value of specific fisheries, but am unsure how it would provide any biological data of value beyond what the traditional survey methods provide.

[GOT1!]

Booooo!!! to the voter who cares NOT about the Alberta Fisheries future. It's fine if you didn't wish to participate in that particular type of program, but you actually don't care??.... think the poll needed and extra spot to vote for not being interested in creel surveys and results maybe. Hopefully that would've been chosen instead.....

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by GOT1!

Booooo!!! to the voter who cares NOT about the Alberta Fisheries future.

Someone trolling?

Dace, I think that this is one of those "push polls" where you design the poll in order to get the answer that you want........either you'd like to participate or you just don't care?

Sure, I would participate if I knew how.

[GOT1!]

Not trolling at all. But may be able to this weekend by all the posts I read about bringing the long rods. Winterized to early this year I guess. Don't take my post the wrong way. The poll just needed another option is all I was trying to say!

[Daceminnow]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Is this just a hypothetical "would you" question because you are curious, or are you really trying to make this happen? It's not really clear. If the latter, what is your position or role in all this? Do you work for SRD or something? Thanks.

i meant to keep it simple. cut and dry. you'd be in if asked, or out. no on the SRD. i am "Joe Angler." no different than you, unless you don't fish?

Originally Posted by MoFugger21

Yes!

And actually, in my last email to Terry Clayton last week, I asked him if there had been any thought put forward by the SRD to do something like this. Unfortunately, I have yet to receive a response to that email, so I can't comment on what he said....

that's part of the reason i started the thread Mo. hoping some of our members would speak out as to if this would be something they'd participate in and maybe just maybe the powers to be would see the shown interest from the rec angler.

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

What would the value of this data be?

what would the value of the data of the links to the creel surveys in both minnesota and ontario be? you tell me bee, you're the guy that uses all the big words. are you saying SRD's conducting surveys to collect data from "Joe Angler" is a bad idea?

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Someone trolling?

Dace, I think that this is one of those "push polls" where you design the poll in order to get the answer that you want........either you'd like to participate or you just don't care?

Sure, I would participate if I knew how.

you bet dave. you'd either participate or you wouldn't. you choose. if you wouldn't help out i can't see any other reason then not caring for the future of albertas fishery. no?


Dace

[bobalong]

Back in the early ninties we used to collect fin samples for the SRD, or whaterver they were called back then. We used to do Pinehurst, Siebert and I believe Spencer, although I never fished Spencer. They would buy the leeches and throw in a few buck for gas as well. We were going fishing anyway, and they appreciated (back then anyway) the help. We used to have about 5-8 boats show up and they said they would get more info from a couple days of fin samples than a whole summer of creel surverys. I would ask them about doing fin sampling.

[BeeGuy]

I think the type of data and it's purpose should be carefully assessed.

If the purpose is to assess fish stocks, I think the bio's should stick to the tried and true survey methods.

If the purpose is to measure fishing-person-hours and success rate in order to identify the economic value of a resource, that should be clarified.

Collecting data, especially passively like this is easy and has a moderate cost. Curating and analyzing costs even more.

When you look at the limited resources these agencies are dealing with, and how long it takes for even their normal survey data to get analyzed and written up, I don't know how they'd be able to take on extra projects.

Enough with the criticism...



Overall I like the data collection idea. I do a lot of it myself, too much in fact, and I know the pitfalls that one can fall into.

If the resources were available to run these extra projects, I would fully support them, no doubt, but without the extra resources they would require, I just see a guy at a desk who is now trying to balance this on top of trying to summarize netting data for MacGregor etc etc.


One of my first posts here was about the iFish Alberta App., and how it had a great potential for data collection of this type. I have to agree with Gustav that an online automated system using a standardized form would be a good way to go. On the flip side, fisherman have always been known for their secrecy about "Lake X" and so on, and I'm not sure everyone would be happy with creel data being publicly available.

[BeeGuy]

There's been some great threads lately whose topics have more or less broached the subjects of sustainable resource management and public involvement/stakeholder consultation.

There seems to be a considerable number of individuals who would like to be more involved in the process somehow.

I'm new to the province and am only vaguely familiar with the various fish-organizations.

Shouldn't all of these concerns that are being continuously raised be able to be satisfied through one or a few of these organizations?

[slivers86]

I'm with ya on this one Dace.

[BGSH]

I believe all streams and creeks and rivers that hold wild trout in Alberta should be C&R period, other places around the world have C&R fisheries that work wonders NOT for us but for the FISHES sake.



Shawn

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by BGSH

I believe all streams and creeks and rivers that hold wild trout in Alberta should be C&R period, other places around the world have C&R fisheries that work wonders NOT for us but for the FISHES sake.



Shawn

What does that opinion have to do with the poll or original question?

[Gust]

The survey platform can be put together in a manner that the lake/stream would come up as ******** to the public viewer but stats could be shown in form of irrigation districts and multiple counties. Also, it can be set up as a private diary of sorts, so, you would open it in a personal folder, with your W.I.N plus a P.I.N and fill out per outing and submit weekly with results quarterly. There would be mandatory fields, lake-stream-fish-length-health-bait-lure-flyfishing and non-mandatory but helpful other fields i.e., water temperature, time of day, number of visible fishers, etc and an "other" box for something notable on that date,,,,,, I'm just making this up as I go along,, if anyone else has an idea, please add to it. As for who compiles and such, well there are grants/funds for such things and I'm sure there are a lot of bio/stat/bureaucrat students looking for work or retired biofolk who'd love to pour over the info and don't forget volunteers,,, it's extremely do-able and saleable (money for compilers).

As for detailed access to information (and this should cause a flame war,,,, oh well),, a non-disclosure agreement is signed by the compilers, pagewriters and managers of the survey (pretty much seems that way already). For the rest of us, well, we get to see results not per lake/district. But should we ask for detailed info, then we sign a strict non-disclosure agreement,,,, I doubt poachers would do that.

Flame away

[horsetrader]

I participated in two such surveys years ago one was in cooperation with a gov. agency and one with the Morissburg fish and game. This was before the internet revolution.....lol so everything was hand written and either mailed in or dropped off things could be done so much easier now. The information at that time was collected to keep an eye on areas that could possibly need more attention with out wasting huge amounts of money. You don't need to be a brainiac to read and see if there is a decline in numbers or size. When a problem is seen THEN it can be turned over to the powers who be. It is a positive idea Dace that has proven itself in the past. I would definitely participate.

[fishpro]

I think creel surveys are a very good idea, it would give F&W a good idea of the size distribution as well as general health of the population. It would also be good for seeing how satisfied anglers are with certain fisheries. They already have creel surveys at many mountain lakes, why not expand it?

[tacklerunner]

I'm in!

[Daceminnow]

so, after over 300 views only 37 people cared to vote yes or no? why? there's only two options. too big of decision?


are you undecided?


do you think polls on this forum are retarded? especially the ones with only two options to select from.


do you fish and care about the resource but think the SRD, Biologists and F&W are doing a bang up job, and require no help or input from us "Joe Angler"? are you happy to pay your 25 bucks a year for a licence and go about your fishing? no complaints?



do you not fish and don't care, and just read threads on a fishing forum cause you got nothing better to do?



do you believe it's a waste of time, and the SRD would never entertain the idea of the program on a continual basis even though these surveys have been done in Alberta before?



do you believe the creel survey is not the best/most effceint way for "Joe Angler" to assist in the collecting of data? the collection of fin samples in the past has been mentioned. are there other ways we as anglers could assist?



any more thoughts? no?

so, everyones happy with the fishing in Alberta today? we are all comfortable our children and grandchilden will be able to still catch a fish in our waters years down the road? we're all cool with paying a measly 25 bucks a year and letting the powers that be handle our future fishery, no input from us?

interesting.

Dace

[BeeGuy]

If the poll was worded differently it would have seen more participation.

As it is, there really aren't 2 options.

For example, just because I don't want to participate in a creel survey, does not mean I don't care about the future of the alberta fishery.

Poll contains judgement, and assumptions.

[Dust1n]

Alberta's Long Term Fishery is F*****.
we don't have the right regulations on a lot of our lakes and rivers and a lot of the people who go fishing don't even know what species of fish it is what they managed to catch even though they want to keep it. IMO i think we should have a Fish ID and/or a brief explanation on the regulations and how to use them.
IMO that would help our fisherys alot.
people post on here about others not knowing that kind of fish they are and decide to keep them or fish out of season.
example
-the brown trout slaughter at stauffer
-the people stomping on the head on brown trout at the bow
my own experiences
-bait fishing on the bow
-keeping walleye mistaking them for pike

How much more is there of this is in Alberta without even us seeing whats going on or people not saying anything about it.
I'm not saying have a huge exam but a simple test that should take you a few mins to fill out on the desk if that much.

i voted no because i wouldn't be able to make it, not that i don't care about Alberta's future fishery's

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Fish Hunter7

Alberta's Long Term Fishery is F*****.
we don't have the right regulations on a lot of our lakes and rivers and a lot of the people who go fishing don't even know what species of fish it is what they managed to catch even though they want to keep it. IMO i think we should have a Fish ID and/or a brief explanation on the regulations and how to use them.
IMO that would help our fisherys alot.
people post on here about others not knowing that kind of fish they are and decide to keep them or fish out of season.
example
-the brown trout slaughter at stauffer
-the people stomping on the head on brown trout at the bow
my own experiences
-bait fishing on the bow
-keeping walleye mistaking them for pike

How much more is there of this is in Alberta without even us seeing whats going on or people not saying anything about it.
I'm not saying have a huge exam but a simple test that should take you a few mins to fill out on the desk if that much.

i voted no because i wouldn't be able to make it, not that i don't care about Alberta's future fishery's

All of those things you mentioned are definitely bad, but do you think they have a significant impact on the fishery? Enough of an impact to affect a species success in a water body? Yes, it is a subjective question.

I mean, the Bow R. is teeming with fish, if those fish weren't poached would it be possible to notice or measure an increase in the fish population?

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

If the poll was worded differently it would have seen more participation.

As it is, there really aren't 2 options.

For example, just because I don't want to participate in a creel survey, does not mean I don't care about the future of the alberta fishery.

Poll contains judgement, and assumptions.

No your wrong there is two options ...**** or get off the pot.
If you won't participate in a simple creel survey to help the Alberta fishery.
Then I would say you can't care THAT much.

And your right the pole dose contain judgement and assumption but maybe that is what is needed to get people involved.Asking nicely has not seemed to work maybe making people ashamed will.

[horsetrader]

[QUOTE=Fish Hunter7;1180188]Alberta's Long Term Fishery is F*****.
we don't have the right regulations on a lot of our lakes and rivers and a lot of the people who go fishing don't even know what species of fish it is what they managed to catch even though they want to keep it. IMO i think we should have a Fish ID and/or a brief explanation on the regulations and how to use them.
IMO that would help our fisherys alot.
people post on here about others not knowing that kind of fish they are and decide to keep them or fish out of season.
example
-the brown trout slaughter at stauffer
-the people stomping on the head on brown trout at the bow
my own experiences
-bait fishing on the bow
-keeping walleye mistaking them for pike

How much more is there of this is in Alberta without even us seeing whats going on or people not saying anything about it.
I'm not saying have a huge exam but a simple test that should take you a few mins to fill out on the desk if that much.

i voted no because i wouldn't be able to make it, not that i don't care about Alberta's future fishery's[/QUOTE]



I don't understand this answer it is not some thing you go to it is a form or an internet survey you fill out when you get back from fishing in the comfort of your own home. No different then your doing right now. The idea of filling a form out by hand and mailing it in is long since gone. Think it over again 7.

[BeeGuy]

Thanks for your rare and insightful commentary horse!

[BGSH]

Originally Posted by daceminnow

so, after over 300 views only 37 people cared to vote yes or no? Why? There's only two options. Too big of decision?


Are you undecided?


Do you think polls on this forum are retarded? Especially the ones with only two options to select from.


Do you fish and care about the resource but think the srd, biologists and f&w are doing a bang up job, and require no help or input from us "joe angler"? Are you happy to pay your 25 bucks a year for a licence and go about your fishing? No complaints?



Do you not fish and don't care, and just read threads on a fishing forum cause you got nothing better to do?



Do you believe it's a waste of time, and the srd would never entertain the idea of the program on a continual basis even though these surveys have been done in alberta before?



Do you believe the creel survey is not the best/most effceint way for "joe angler" to assist in the collecting of data? The collection of fin samples in the past has been mentioned. Are there other ways we as anglers could assist?



Any more thoughts? No?

So, everyones happy with the fishing in alberta today? We are all comfortable our children and grandchilden will be able to still catch a fish in our waters years down the road? We're all cool with paying a measly 25 bucks a year and letting the powers that be handle our future fishery, no input from us?

Interesting.

Dace

no it is because the 275 people do not care and it is a shame, they better start caring or there is going to be nothing to fish for anymore period.

[Dust1n]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

All of those things you mentioned are definitely bad, but do you think they have a significant impact on the fishery? Enough of an impact to affect a species success in a water body? Yes, it is a subjective question.

I mean, the Bow R. is teeming with fish, if those fish weren't poached would it be possible to notice or measure an increase in the fish population?

I think it would make a difference but not a huge one. a dissension best for the long term fishery.

probibly not because theres enough food to support all of those trout. but theres also the death from C&R and other preditors whether it be the odd bull trout lurking around the city or the birds of prey circling the river everyday.

[chubbdarter]

Its great to have a Poll that means something unlike the ones weve seen before.
Every bit of info provides , history, updated info, and valuble info that may complete the data needed.
If random netting results provide info, I must assume creel surveys must also provide important data.

[BGSH]

What really should be happening is Biologists and f&w and so on should be going fishing with the everyday fishermen not in uniform to see what really goes on around them.