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Old 02-14-2019, 08:50 AM
CalgaryDan CalgaryDan is offline
 
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Default New gun - Eventually a 25 SST?

Hey guys, a while back I made a thread asking for advice about a first time hunting rifle that I wanted to be a jack of all trades but still be relatively easy on the recoil. There were a lot of great suggestions with the 25-06 and 7mm-08 being a couple of the more common suggestions.

After doing a ton of reading on the subject I had kinda settled on a 25-06 despite understanding that the biggest draw back for this cartridge was the lack of heavy for caliber bullets that limited some of its potential, particularly on elk sized game.

Now I’m reading about the Blackjack 131 gr and 128gr Hammer Hunter bullets which have the potential to change that.

As these rounds are made for short actions and require a 7 or 8” twist I’m curious if it would be possible to buy a Tikka in 25-06 and down the road rebarrel/chamber it for 25sst. Or would it be better to simply rebarrel it to accommodate the heavier bullets when the opportunity presents itself?

I’m new to all of this so any input would be appreciated!
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:06 AM
DLab DLab is offline
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To start with ,you'll need a Magnum bolt head I'm thinking ,the 25/06 doesn't have that.Mag change also for feeding short fat cases.
Definitely will need to hand load for the Wildcat,sourcing specific cases and bullets in Canada may be problematic,pricey at best,that's if those Blackjack's or Hammer's are still available by the time you burn out that 25/06 barrel.
In short ,shoot the 06 you may be surprised how well it works for your intended purpose.
For an easier conversion I would be looking at the .270 Sherman long or just buy a Tikka in .270 Win.it will do every thing you're after,basically the same case and recoil factor anyway.

What you're asking about is a lot of chewing for a first bite ,if you get my drift.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:49 AM
CalgaryDan CalgaryDan is offline
 
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Originally Posted by DLab View Post
To start with ,you'll need a Magnum bolt head I'm thinking ,the 25/06 doesn't have that.Mag change also for feeding short fat cases.
Definitely will need to hand load for the Wildcat,sourcing specific cases and bullets in Canada may be problematic,pricey at best,that's if those Blackjack's or Hammer's are still available by the time you burn out that 25/06 barrel.
In short ,shoot the 06 you may be surprised how well it works for your intended purpose.
For an easier conversion I would be looking at the .270 Sherman long or just buy a Tikka in .270 Win.it will do every thing you're after,basically the same case and recoil factor anyway.

What you're asking about is a lot of chewing for a first bite ,if you get my drift.
My wife accuses me of that whenever I’m looking at getting into a new hobby, she typically isn’t wrong.

I like doing things from scratch and definitely prefer things that are a little oddball or unique. If the heavy for cartridge trend keeps up for the 25’s would the Tikka 270 WSM be an appropriate action to start with?
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:17 PM
fps plus fps plus is online now
 
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The tikka wsm would work fine
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:46 PM
Dubious Dubious is offline
 
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If your going with the wildcat round your going to have to reload, your going to have to source all the standard reloading equipment AND all the wildcat equipment you need to construct the round. it can be a pain and costly to find wildcat dies and brass or having to make the brass and buying extra dies to make false shoulders and stepping brass down before fire forming. not to mention finding a gunsmith that has a reamer and go/no gauges for your build. if they don't have it you may also have to buy them to chamber the rifle once and then have a reamer and gauges sitting in your basement that you only used the one time. people don't usually go wildcatting on there first rifle there's a lot that you need to know and if you don't have someone to mentor you in person the task can be very difficult for someone just breaking into the sport. there also the back end costs like a range membership or driving out to the bush buying a crono so you can get the speeds of your loads wildcatting/reloading can be very resource heavy.

or you can just buy a factory chamber like 25-06 and buy rounds off the shelf and not have to worry about all the prep before you can even fire a round.

and lastly the game won't know the difference between the 3300fps 131gr blackjack bullet and the 100gr 3300 fps 25-06 bullets. I Knocked down a nice 5x6 bull elk with my 25-06 100gr load and he was drt and I won't hesitate to use it on moose either.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:10 PM
CalgaryDan CalgaryDan is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dubious View Post
If your going with the wildcat round your going to have to reload, your going to have to source all the standard reloading equipment AND all the wildcat equipment you need to construct the round. it can be a pain and costly to find wildcat dies and brass or having to make the brass and buying extra dies to make false shoulders and stepping brass down before fire forming. not to mention finding a gunsmith that has a reamer and go/no gauges for your build. if they don't have it you may also have to buy them to chamber the rifle once and then have a reamer and gauges sitting in your basement that you only used the one time. people don't usually go wildcatting on there first rifle there's a lot that you need to know and if you don't have someone to mentor you in person the task can be very difficult for someone just breaking into the sport. there also the back end costs like a range membership or driving out to the bush buying a crono so you can get the speeds of your loads wildcatting/reloading can be very resource heavy.

or you can just buy a factory chamber like 25-06 and buy rounds off the shelf and not have to worry about all the prep before you can even fire a round.

and lastly the game won't know the difference between the 3300fps 131gr blackjack bullet and the 100gr 3300 fps 25-06 bullets. I Knocked down a nice 5x6 bull elk with my 25-06 100gr load and he was drt and I won't hesitate to use it on moose either.
Thanks! I do appreciate the feedback and when I start into something I often go over the top. I do like to look down the road and set a goal to accomplish when I get into something that will force me to expand my knowledge base and there is definitely so much to learn!
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:12 AM
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3blade 3blade is offline
 
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Don’t let the long range bench/competition stuff you read online get in the way of hunting. Some guys get their willy in a knot over 0.003 BC differences. It don’t matter.

Buy a quality rifle, scope, binos, bino harness, pack, good ammo, boots, appropriate clothing...things that will actually make a difference.

Spend all that extra time you would have spent reloading on scouting, shooting and getting used to walking all day.

Comparing guns and ballistics is fun, but the opportunities to utilize long range capability are exceptionally few and far between in the field.

Re: what gun/caliber, you got the best answer from kurt right off the bat in your last thread. A T3X in 270win (NOT WSM - feeding issues and good luck finding brass/ammo) will do everything you ever need to hunt in Alberta.
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:51 AM
DLab DLab is offline
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I didn't read your other thread before suggesting a .270 Win.in my previous post,this advice for a newbie just made sense.Get one ,learn to shoot it out to 300 yards with consistent shot placement. Practise from a bench ,prone bi-pod or back pack top ,standing with shooting sticks. These are things you need.

Buy decent optics and equipment and practise till you're familiar with all of it.
Here's a scenario for you that I have seen personally ,you head out for a hunt ,you drive 4 hours to get to the destination ,get every thing ready ,go to grab your ammo and this sick feeling suddenly over comes you as you visually picture in your mind's eye your ammo sitting on the kitchen table at home.
After 30-60 seconds of self hate and loathing along with some choice wording questioning your IQ level in a very loud tone,you remember passing a store a 1/2 hour back with an Ammo sales sign.Sure enough they have some .270 Win. in stock.
What they won't have,not one box of,is .25 SST loaded with 131 grain Blackjack's.
Just saying..take it for what it's worth.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:35 PM
blackburbot blackburbot is offline
 
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Wildcats/custom rifles are fun. Certainly a conversation topic where ever you take them and shoot them. Thats the problem with customs. You need to shoot them to actually understand how they shoot in all climates.

Rich Sherman has some nice ideas for the shorts. I am getting one in 6.5SS. But it will be costly. Dies are $280USD, so close to $400CDN by the time they actually arrive at my door. Chambered barrel will run you the same as any barrel....as long as reamer is available. Brent from Neerlandia COOP is thinking about starting to bring the reamers in for rent. Brass, the Shermans are essentially an improved SAUM round, but Sherman stamped brass will soon be available from Bighorn sales.

Next comes the fun....getting the thing to actually shoot and shoot consistantly. Hope you have time to make a $2000 barrel assembly, plus whatever the action/trigger/stock/scope costs worth owning. You dont want to talk up a rifle and long range efficient cartridge and can't make decent shots on paper or steel at 800+ yards.

Do you need a Sherman to get to 800+yards.... NO, a simple 243win makes it there no problem, just need a couple more clicks on the turret. Hitting power of the 243 vs Sherman...thats a topic of ethics and don't want to open that can of worms. But the cool factor of having a unique cartridge is great, just remember its harder to sell a custom compared to a factory chambering once the $5000 novelty wears off
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:10 PM
CalgaryDan CalgaryDan is offline
 
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Thanks for all of the feedback! I do like the idea of these new bullets but for practical purposes your advice is definitely sound.

I’m thinking I’ll likely pick up a decent used 25-06 and get my feet wet doing some reloading with it to learn the basics before committing to something that will be a much bigger investment in time and money. If the heavy weight 25’s stick around I could always look to rebarrel with a faster twist to take advantage of them and learn some more while I’m at it.
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:23 PM
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catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalgaryDan View Post
Thanks for all of the feedback! I do like the idea of these new bullets but for practical purposes your advice is definitely sound.

I’m thinking I’ll likely pick up a decent used 25-06 and get my feet wet doing some reloading with it to learn the basics before committing to something that will be a much bigger investment in time and money. If the heavy weight 25’s stick around I could always look to rebarrel with a faster twist to take advantage of them and learn some more while I’m at it.
There have been a ton of big elk and moose killed over the years with bullets like 120 grain Hornadys and the lighter Barnes bullets and everything in between.
I have to echo those that caution about jumping blindly into the realm of wildcats .
They are not for the inexperienced , for sure!
Cat
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:18 PM
weedcatcher weedcatcher is offline
 
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So you like the 25-06 but want heavier for caliber bullets, and something oddball. The 6.5-06 is only 0.007” bigger in caliber, but you can get up to 160gr bullets with ease. 140 grainers even easier. They’re easy to make out of a tikka. I know. I have one.
Start by buying a 6.5x55, then just have it reamed out to fit the aught six case. I even use 25-06 cases. I run them through my sizing die and have no issues.
I use 125gt partition, 129gr ballistic tips, or 130 gr accubonds. I’m not done playing.
Anyway, it’s an idea to think about.
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:52 AM
Beeman3 Beeman3 is offline
 
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If you just go out and buy a 25-06 you are not going to be shooting the Blackjack or the Hammers. Be sure to research how much twist is needed for those bullets. The Hammer Hunter needs a super fast twist. Big Horn sales will not be bringing in Sherman brass as was said earlier. I verified that this week as I was going to order some. I am putting together a switch barrel gun in 6SST and 7SST. Don't let some of these guys scare you. IF you want it, build it. Reamers can be rented from Rich for $50 for 14 days I believe. There is a canadian dealer being set up in Northen Alberta to handle all the Sherman wildcats. THe ADG brass is suppose to be great stuff. Lots of info at Sherman Wilcats website. Give Rich a call, he's very helpful and will answer all your questions or concerns. I also built a 6.5 Sherman 5 years ago. Amazing performance out of the 270 case. I went SST this time because there is almost no brass prep.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:21 AM
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58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
There have been a ton of big elk and moose killed over the years with bullets like 120 grain Hornadys and the lighter Barnes bullets and everything in between.
I have to echo those that caution about jumping blindly into the realm of wildcats .
They are not for the inexperienced , for sure!
Cat
You gotta get your feet wet sometime.......one foot at a time.....don't take the plunge though.....luv having something no one else has.....yup I got a beauty 6-284....some other do too but not exactly configured as per my riffffle
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:27 AM
DLab DLab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeman3 View Post
If you just go out and buy a 25-06 you are not going to be shooting the Blackjack or the Hammers. Be sure to research how much twist is needed for those bullets. The Hammer Hunter needs a super fast twist. Big Horn sales will not be bringing in Sherman brass as was said earlier. I verified that this week as I was going to order some. I am putting together a switch barrel gun in 6SST and 7SST. Don't let some of these guys scare you. IF you want it, build it. Reamers can be rented from Rich for $50 for 14 days I believe. There is a canadian dealer being set up in Northen Alberta to handle all the Sherman wildcats. THe ADG brass is suppose to be great stuff. Lots of info at Sherman Wilcats website. Give Rich a call, he's very helpful and will answer all your questions or concerns. I also built a 6.5 Sherman 5 years ago. Amazing performance out of the 270 case. I went SST this time because there is almost no brass prep.
I'm curious,no disrespect intended ,was your first hunting rifle an extreme performance Custom Magnum Wildcat that you jumped right into reloading for using custom components with zero reloading experience?
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:39 AM
Beeman3 Beeman3 is offline
 
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No it was not. Maybe I misread the OP. The SST will be much easier to load for as ADG makes brass ready to go. For a 25SST it would need to be neck sized though. Comes in 6.5 and the 7SST brass is available in May I believe. If this is the OP’s first gun it may be a big step. I read it as he wanted to have a do all gun for the first time. I will add that the 25SST is not a do all in my opinion. To small for elk. However guys have taken elk with the new Blackjack bullet. New hunting version is also going to be released soon. I am also looking into brining in some hammers to try in my new SST’s.
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