Pacific NorthWest LNG Project Not Proceeding

[79ford]

This goes back to government didling... this almost made it then the harper government put off the decision until after the election.... then trudeau got in power started really didling and screwing around. Now the project is dead.

Petronas was pretty slow too, same with everyone else on the coast, same thing in the tarsands everyone wanted to build during the peak and now the price kinda sucks for the commodity and the government is pretty lousy too.

The lng window is gone, the united states, australia and qatar beat us to the punch. Lng went from 18$ per unit to 6-9$ now and the west coast needs something like 9-13$ to make the money back in a happy fashion.

I am sort of amazed it took this long to kill these projects, i remember having this conversation with my father 2 years ago saying nothing would go because the companies building had no money because of the oil price crash and he price of lng was already sliding

[fishead]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

July 1 2018 is a day anxiously awaited I'm sure

Hilarious every response s like, you know nothing, you are so immature.
Typical can't even have a solid discussion about energy.
Wind and solar without a viable means for storage equals not your main source for energy.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Wind and solar.......

Fun fact. Average coal plant. 500 MW

Average wind turbine 1.5 MW

Wind isn't steady. You still need back up for when it can't produce.

Where shall we place 400 wind turbines?

[Redfrog]

If the facts don’t fit the theory, change the facts


Have the people who make these decisions been living in a bubble? They never heard of Notley, Trudeau, carbon taxes, Al gore's glowing assessment of JT and the Paris accord, or social conscience in place and humming along by the NDP?

"Gas is going to be used for a long time. This happened because the projects in Canada got tied up for so long by enviro and native groups that ports were built in other jurisdictions like Australia that got on with it. Stall stall stall until the demand is filled elsewhere, and then pat yourself on the back that you did something for the environment, even though the product is still being produced and used elsewhere. We can just be righteously smug and poorer. "

Such clarity in thinking for such a young mind.

[Deer Hunter]

Lots of energy around in more aggressive countries...


http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/04/qatar...rgy-plans.html

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Fun fact. Average coal plant. 500 MW

Average wind turbine 1.5 MW

Wind isn't steady. You still need back up for when it can't produce.

Where shall we place 400 wind turbines?

Not that hard to figure out, put them where the wind is blowing.....
Compared to pump jacks, coal mines, open pit oil sands,refineries or even coal fired generating stations a windmill seems pretty innocuous.
As a side note, wind turbines are getting bigger and more efficient each year. I think the newest is 8 or 9 MW so instead of 400 they would need 60.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Not that hard to figure out, put them where the wind is blowing.....
Compared to pump jacks, coal mines, open pit oil sands,refineries or even coal fired generating stations a windmill seems pretty innocuous.
As a side note, wind turbines are getting bigger and more efficient each year. I think the newest is 8 or 9 MW so instead of 400 they would need 60.

How many windmills are running near where you live?

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Why would I wait til then ????
As a side note, some of the worst stoners and drunks I've ever met were in the oil and gas field. Why do you think they had to implement so much testing ????

Originally Posted by Scott h

Not that hard to figure out, put them where the wind is blowing.....
Compared to pump jacks, coal mines, open pit oil sands,refineries or even coal fired generating stations a windmill seems pretty innocuous.
As a side note, wind turbines are getting bigger and more efficient each year. I think the newest is 8 or 9 MW so instead of 400 they would need 60.

Please stay in N.Van. and please keep the koolaid to yourself.

I was quite active in the alternatives industry. They cannot compete without ridiculous subsidies and cost the taxpayer ridiculous money to "replace" anything at the moment.

NG plants are far more enviro friendly and far more productive for the coatvthan anything else on themmarket right now.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Why would I wait til then ????
As a side note, some of the worst stoners and drunks I've ever met were in the oil and gas field. Why do you think they had to implement so much testing ????

Hmm....and I would have thought it would be east of hastings street, you know where that is right?

The difference between the stoners in the oil patch and the stoners on the left coast is that oil patch workers don't have the grand disillusion of a utopia where the 32 million people of Canada are supplied with heat for their homes, power for said homes, transportation, food grown by our farmers, the list goes on, can be serviced by windmills and solar panels. Won't even get into the byproducts of petro chemicals you use on a daily basis, as I'm sure you know what all those are? Have a look around.

You'd be open to a few rows of wind mills on the hills of north van? Or just another NIMBY?

[Ken07AOVette]

I would put a windmill through my roof into my living room if I got free power.
These NIMBY people drive me insane.
The worst I have found are in Banff, the thought is 'I am already here, why should anything change? Why do we need more houses?' (hoteels, business, etc)

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Please stay in N.Van. and please keep the koolaid to yourself.

I was quite active in the alternatives industry. They cannot compete without ridiculous subsidies and cost the taxpayer ridiculous money to "replace" anything at the moment.

NG plants are far more enviro friendly and far more productive for the coatvthan anything else on themmarket right now.

Sorry but I split my time between North Van and Calgary. Maybe we are neighbors.
I didn't say I was against gas (in fact it's been quite lucrative due to some mineral rights I own), I merely stated that oil and gas has seen better days and it's probably on it's way out. Technology is replacing it whether you or I want it or not.

[rem338win]

Im all foe technology replacing O and G when its cost effective and independently sustainable.

We aint there so until then......

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Sorry but I split my time between North Van and Calgary. Maybe we are neighbors.
I didn't say I was against gas (in fact it's been quite lucrative due to some mineral rights I own), I merely stated that oil and gas has seen better days and it's probably on it's way out. Technology is replacing it whether you or I want it or not.

Have any stats to back that up? A year to year global usage of petroleum/coal products?

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Hmm....and I would have thought it would be east of hastings street, you know where that is right?

The difference between the stoners in the oil patch and the stoners on the left coast is that oil patch workers don't have the grand disillusion of a utopia where the 32 million people of Canada are supplied with heat for their homes, power for said homes, transportation, food grown by our farmers, the list goes on, can be serviced by windmills and solar panels. Won't even get into the byproducts of petro chemicals you use on a daily basis, as I'm sure you know what all those are? Have a look around.

You'd be open to a few rows of wind mills on the hills of north van? Or just another NIMBY?

I would absolutely be open to wind mills in North Van, but I would really like to see them in Calgary where they would make much more sense.
How about you. Would you like a sour gas plant next to your child's school, or are you a bit of a NIMBY type ???

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Scott h

I would absolutely be open to wind mills in North Van, but I would really like to see them in Calgary where they would make much more sense.
How about you. Would you like a sour gas plant next to your child's school, or are you a bit of a NIMBY type ???

Ummmm......check out my location

Can even one up the Shell Caroline gas plant, extremely sour line runs thru my property about 300 yds from the house (with my luck that gas makes it's way to north van, probably even heats one of suzukis house's) . Lease about 350 yds away (although shut in)
NIMBY? Hardly

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Im all foe technology replacing O and G when its cost effective and independently sustainable.

We aint there so until then......

Yes you may be right, BUT those numbers are changing rapidly. Projects are coming on line so fast now that there will be very little room for oil and gas prices to ever rise very high again I suspect.
When entire countries are planning out right bans on gas and diesel cars, the writings on the wall.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...diesel-n781431

[duck duck goose]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

So how do you go back and forth between Alberta and Phoenix Arizona USofA an electric car or an electric plane. Oh snap don't tell me you got a giant electric snow bird RV's.
Thanks for your input.

Actually I hang glide, it gets the best MPG. Tough part is when you need the bathroom though

[fishead]

Originally Posted by Scott h

I would absolutely be open to wind mills in North Van, but I would really like to see them in Calgary where they would make much more sense.
How about you. Would you like a sour gas plant next to your child's school, or are you a bit of a NIMBY type ???

If wind and solar made so much sense they would be everywhere already, quit slugging nonsense and do you homework. Maybe some innovations will come a long but we are not there yet.

[Bighorn River]

The market has spoken. The economics don't work. Trying to pin it on minor policy differences is silly.

It's going to be really interesting who this board is going to try and blame in 2 years when/if we have a UCP government and oilsands investments are still stalled and declining, coal plants closing etc. This downturn could become the new normal. Its not just friends who've lost their jobs who are going to be angry its richer Albertans who realize the 6 figure incomes, and second homes in Arizona and lowest taxes in the country can't be delivered without the gusher that was oil and gas.

The glory days for fossil fuels are over. The only question is whether we are able to manage the decline or whether the transition is more painful. The signals are clear and technological change is so fast I just hope we can adapt.

[BobM]

All the tree huggers in BCwant to be carbon free let's help them out shut down the trans mountain pipeline for 2 weeks and ng pipelines to the Vancouver area.

The new Priemer sounds like a repeat of Dave Barrett in the 70'sand where do the Natives think their welfare will come from when they shut down all resource industry. Don't think for one minute Treudeau will help.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Yes you may be right, BUT those numbers are changing rapidly. Projects are coming on line so fast now that there will be very little room for oil and gas prices to ever rise very high again I suspect.
When entire countries are planning out right bans on gas and diesel cars, the writings on the wall.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...diesel-n781431

The time line is probably long after the terms of these people That are in government pushing this. Like 20-30 years extended to 40-50. We will see when it happens and how broke these countries will be.
They never mentioned all the special provisions for industry yet either.
And all out ban in the near future would cripple a country.
Oh what? No military forces unless they can get there by peddle bike?
Good luck.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Yes you may be right, BUT those numbers are changing rapidly. Projects are coming on line so fast now that there will be very little room for oil and gas prices to ever rise very high again I suspect.
When entire countries are planning out right bans on gas and diesel cars, the writings on the wall.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/auto...diesel-n781431

If a country bans gas and diesel it doesnt mean the competing technology is viable, it means there are other forces at play.

You also admit that alternative fuels are not ready to replace fossil fuels, so why push it? Why subsidize them and ruin the economic benefits of developing a new technology using the free market and private investment?

[Deer Hunter]

Off topic wrt lng but global oil demand continues to not only grow but accelerate.



https://www.arcenergyinstitute.com/s...on-versus-gdp/

[Newview01]

Also off topic, but one must also ask, why would the powers that be want us to be driving electric cars? The hype and the push are unnatural.

[CF8889]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Also off topic, but one must also ask, why would the powers that be want us to be driving electric cars? The hype and the push are unnatural.

The truth is out there, right Mulder?

[roughneckin]

Yup fossil fuels will eventually slowly pass on but until then they are a necessity to our life as it stands.
How does one mine for the metal that makes windmills....fossil fuels
How does one mine lithium and move the product to a production facility across oceans and place inside vehicles and storage facilities for later use...fossil fuels and destruction of rain forest rivers
How do we mine the rare minerals that produce the solar panels...fossil fuels and child labor in Africa
How do we create dams and turbines that produce "green energy" but huge amounts of methane gases from bio breakdown....fossil fuels

The easiest way to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels is all die. Otherwise it will be a long time before anything drastically changes.

And if anyone hasn't seen this...without the subsidy program the windmills in Canada will probably die off....
http://www.calgaryherald.com/bang+ev...935/story.html

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by CF8889

The truth is out there, right Mulder?

[Norwest Alta]

Fossil fuels will be here long after many of us are fossils. It is required for all our needs and wants. From fertilizer to grow food to wind turbines fossil fuels are as important today as they will be tomorrow.

[Peter Gill]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Not that hard to figure out, put them where the wind is blowing.....
Compared to pump jacks, coal mines, open pit oil sands,refineries or even coal fired generating stations a windmill seems pretty innocuous.
As a side note, wind turbines are getting bigger and more efficient each year. I think the newest is 8 or 9 MW so instead of 400 they would need 60.

6,258 Mw of installed coal generation capacity in AB, to replace that with your 9 Mw wind turbine would require 695 of them, IF the wind blew at optimum speed all of the time, which of course it does not. The AB Independent Power Producers Society estimates wind at best 35% efficient, so we'd need over 2000 of your wind turbines, assuming someone creates a viable & cost-effective storage system.

Not quite the entire story though, sad to say for wind power. For 2015 (last year for which I have data), coal in AB produced over 41,000 GwH while wind produced a whopping 3800 GwH. So we would need an almost 11-fold increase in wind generation to replace coal, again assuming a viable storage system as above.

Good luck with that.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Also off topic, but one must also ask, why would the powers that be want us to be driving electric cars? The hype and the push are unnatural.

My guess would be because most of the educated population of the world believe carbon is ruining the enviroment ????