Powder coat bullets.....anyone?

[360hunt]

I'm wondering if anyone else on Albertaoutdoorsmen
Has tried power coating bullets?
Recently I found myself learning how to cast 45 and 30 caliber bullets. I first tried tumble lubing my casts for reloading with lee liquid alox.
It works well but what a sticky, smelly mess.
The idea of the lube is to prevent leading in the barrel by coating the exterior of the bullet much like a copper jacket would.
I saw a video on line of someone powder coating their casts rather then lubing.
Turns out there is something to this. No mess, no smell and a nice coating to prevent handling of lead.
I'm really starting to crank out the production line and saving huge $.
Have I lost my mind? Or are their others doing this?
Cheers 360hunt

[Ronan_357]

I was considering it for my airgun mostly just for handling purposes. From what found the biggest hurdle to get over was uniform coating, either by static charging the projectiles when using powder or by using a liquid powder coating.

Check out castboolits.com, might be helpful

[360hunt]

I have tried the liquid powder coating but I found it to be a bigger mess than the liquid alox.
I found using the powder form in a brass tumbler creates enough charge for the coating to stick.
Then I bake them @400 for 20 minutes.
I managed to pound a 500 grain 45cal bullet into a pancake with a hammer. The coating stuck on and showed no signs of coming off.

[tikka250]

I am coating 45acp and 357 and I have found a 2min shake in a tuperware container then a 12 min bake at 400-425 can't recall. Then just size and shoot. Keep in mind I don't care if they are not perfectly coated as I'm just loading cheap close range plinking ammo.

[360hunt]

Out of curiosity.....what powder are you using?

[mgvande]

Looking into it but I do know that alox is a lot simpler. If you want cool looking bullets then powder coat away. The trick for simplicity seems to find a paint that you can shake and bake.

[nastycanasta]

I bought powder from Princess Auto. I have had good luck with it so far.

[32-40win]

I have the stuff I need to do it, but, the one bullet I wanted to try it for, casts too big to work with it. Easy enough to do, haven't screwed myself up to getting another mould for it yet. The batch I did try, needed too much sizing, and the paint came off due to that, it passed the smashed bullet tests just fine, but the sizing process was too much for it.

[qwert]

I found Lee Alox application much smoother and less messy by
- thinning the Lee Alox with mineral spirits (aka paint thinner or Varsol)
- I keep a small plastic container used only for Alox/MS.
- after manually tumbling to apply thinned Alox, I just dump out on wax paper to dry and make no attempt to separate for drying.
- if desired, a second coat of thinned Alox can produce a thicker but more uniform coating than un-thinned Alox.

IMHE, powder coating is a better alternative than both Alox or traditional bee’s wax / Alox bullet lubes.

I apply the powder using a screw top Ziploc container (with # 5 inside a triangled arrow recycling symbol) and 25 grain, black, 6mm AirSoft pellets, (AFAIK, it is the interaction of the plastic bowl and. AirSoft pellets that creates the static charge that holds the powder to the boolits.)
I put the sealed Ziploc containers in a vibrating tumbler for ~10 minutes, then finish off with a vigorous manual inversion and shaking.
I remove the coated boolits using a set of medical haemostats, with sharp pointed jaws turned inward to grip the coated boolit without dislodging much powder.
I place the boolits base down on ‘no-stick’ aluminum foil, and bake in a common convection type toaster oven. IIRC my inexpensive oven thermometer indicates ~ 375F, and I hold for ~ 20 minutes.

IMHE powder coating of short fat bullets is a LOT easier as they will more easily stand on their base.
I have tried to coat long .308 & .338 rifle boolits, but they seldom survive the trip to the oven still standing. I have not yet tried any of the common solutions such as placing the boolit base in a hole or hanging by a thin wire, and/or spraying with an electrostatic powder sprayer.
I tried baking in a pile (like drying Alox), but the results were disappointing.

As expected, the pile baked boolits had lots of coating roughness and variable thickness. I tried the pile baked boolits for fire-forming (@~1800 fps) and while the (new, unfired Lapua) brass was properly formed as expected, the 100 yd target was undamaged and fully reusable (as it had no holes). (Normally, I get 50 shot, 1-2 MOA results fire-forming with TL Alox, or bee’s wax / Alox Lube-Sized.)
The pile baked boolits also left a LOT of powder color (black) fouling, (powder coated pistol boolits leave little or no fouling or leading.)

LOTS more information at
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...d-Alternatives

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ating-Boolits&

Good Luck, YMMV.

[DRE75]

I just started powder coating my bullets, .309 170 and 180 grain. I am using Emerald Coatings "Tool Blue" with great results in a "shake and bake" method, as described above in a #5 plastic (polypropylene) container.

I preheat the bullets to about 150F and put them in the container and shake them for about a minute, then put them in a strainer to get excess powder off, and then bake at the instructed settings (375F for 10 minutes, iirc) and have had good results so far.

5 lb hammer test pounded 1/4" of the bullet in (my alloy is about 12 BHN, water quenched to around 15 BHN) and no coating loss, so I'm happy, the only thing I'm still wondering about and I'll have to do testing to see, is do I gas check them still or not? I'm going to be building loads for my 30-06 and 300wm, and in the 300wm I'm sure I'm going to dial down the loads for pressure and velocity, so time will tell.

[Don_Parsons]

Good info here.

Tag

Don

[qwert]

Originally Posted by DRE75

snip
the only thing I'm still wondering about and I'll have to do testing to see, is do I gas check them still or not? I'm going to be building loads for my 30-06 and 300wm, and in the 300wm I'm sure I'm going to dial down the loads for pressure and velocity, so time will tell.

Are you baking the boolits standing alone or in a pile?
How do you keep them standing, especially without a full flat base?

I install the gas checks before coating, but still have problems keeping them standing.
I suspect that boolits with GC installed are more resistant to gas cutting up the sides.

Flat base pistol boolits stand more reliably, and the coating does bake to the base, but does run down the boolit to form a sharp edge radial ridge against the no-stick foil which must be removed to enter the case mouth. It can often be broken off with my fingers but a Lee push through die is more consistent and easier.

While very dangerous SEE (secondary explosive effect) is not fully understood, reduced charges of slow burning powder in larger capacity cases seem to be a common factor.
I have had good results using IMR SR4759, which is recommended for reduced charges.
I have avoided trying any case fillers in bottle-neck cases, but might try in a straight wall case, (there are reports of bore ring formation caused by poly-fillers).
Some suggest raising the muzzle to shake the powder to the flash hole is helpful.
I have found more consistent results and velocities by using magnum primers.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[Pathfinder76]

What are boolits?

[qwert]

Originally Posted by chuck

What are boolits?

Cast lead bullets,

LOTS more information at
http://castboolits.gunloads.com

Good Luck, YMMV.

[The Flint&Fly Guy]

I powder coat 280gr "boolits" for my .444M they have accounted for two deer so far. (Hopefully an elk yet this week!)

[mgvande]

Originally Posted by DRE75

I just started powder coating my bullets, .309 170 and 180 grain. I am using Emerald Coatings "Tool Blue" with great results in a "shake and bake" method, as described above in a #5 plastic (polypropylene) container.

I preheat the bullets to about 150F and put them in the container and shake them for about a minute, then put them in a strainer to get excess powder off, and then bake at the instructed settings (375F for 10 minutes, iirc) and have had good results so far.

5 lb hammer test pounded 1/4" of the bullet in (my alloy is about 12 BHN, water quenched to around 15 BHN) and no coating loss, so I'm happy, the only thing I'm still wondering about and I'll have to do testing to see, is do I gas check them still or not? I'm going to be building loads for my 30-06 and 300wm, and in the 300wm I'm sure I'm going to dial down the loads for pressure and velocity, so time will tell.

If your mold calls for a gc then gc. I have heard of poor accuracy with gc moods and no gc crimped on. All my molds but one are flat based as I'm usually shooting BP. If your running low velocities then one does not require a gc mold. Smokeless with a 300win or 308, you probably will be wanting a gc as you will be pushing them fast.

[DRE75]

Originally Posted by qwert

Are you baking the boolits standing alone or in a pile?
How do you keep them standing, especially without a full flat base?

My alloy is 2% tin and 3% antimony and less than a percent of copper, which was interesting to make work with the melt.

I lay them all out in a bunch on the baking tray, with parchment paper under, and shake them out to make sure they're not piled up on each other. It's very important to preheat and use only as much powder as necessary, and shake off excess powder before putting them on the tray, my first batch I did with a LOT of powder and they all melted together, it was a write-off; melted them back down to cast again.

I considered standing them all up but it would likely be an exercise in frustration, as I'd likely spend time standing them all up and have them knock over putting them in the toaster oven.

I'd found in my second batch (which I went very light on the PC after the write-off batch) that there were sometimes small patches of bullet that have a lack of coating, like a thin strip up the side, which I attributed to the surface facing down on the tray not being coated. I added a bit more powder and about halfway through the bake I "shook" the tray very slightly to rotate the bullets a bit and try to alleviate the issues. It was still there in a few bullets but was far less than before... I figure if I run into issues with leading or anything I'll give those particular bullets a second light coating, sizing will bring them to the right place anyways.

[mgvande]

Originally Posted by DRE75

My alloy is 2% tin and 3% antimony and less than a percent of copper, which was interesting to make work with the melt.

I lay them all out in a bunch on the baking tray, with parchment paper under, and shake them out to make sure they're not piled up on each other. It's very important to preheat and use only as much powder as necessary, and shake off excess powder before putting them on the tray, my first batch I did with a LOT of powder and they all melted together, it was a write-off; melted them back down to cast again.

I considered standing them all up but it would likely be an exercise in frustration, as I'd likely spend time standing them all up and have them knock over putting them in the toaster oven.

I'd found in my second batch (which I went very light on the PC after the write-off batch) that there were sometimes small patches of bullet that have a lack of coating, like a thin strip up the side, which I attributed to the surface facing down on the tray not being coated. I added a bit more powder and about halfway through the bake I "shook" the tray very slightly to rotate the bullets a bit and try to alleviate the issues. It was still there in a few bullets but was far less than before... I figure if I run into issues with leading or anything I'll give those particular bullets a second light coating, sizing will bring them to the right place anyways.

Sounds like 2 coats would be the ticket. You should post some pics.

[DRE75]

What's a good hosting site for images? I habe a few on my phone I can put up.

[DRE75]

https://ibb.co/fmPZrb

https://ibb.co/k7PpPw

[Homesteader]

Look like the old Barnes XLC’s

[32-40win]

Your usual barrier on cast bullets between plain base and gaschecks is about 16-1700fps. Slower barrel twist is almost always better, but, still subject to ideal stabilization twist rates, as bullet weights go higher and bullets go longer in the given caliber. Gaschecks are there to protect the corners of the bullet base. Likewise, if you size a bullet too much, you decrease lube capacity on it, and that can bite you as well, it will lead down towards the muzzle. Some people say you can run a PC-PB bullet a bit quicker, maybe into the 17-1800 range, you are still going to need the right alloy for that speed vs twist range. It is still subject to shear forces because of rotational speed, each hardness range has its limits, and even the hardest, does not have the strength of the copper gilding metal on a jacketed bullet. Paper patching falls somewhere in between lubed PB bullet and up towards a jacketed one, but is a pain in the butt to do large batches of it.

[mgvande]

Originally Posted by DRE75

https://ibb.co/fmPZrb

https://ibb.co/k7PpPw

How much diameter are you increasing after you powder coat?

[mgvande]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

Your usual barrier on cast bullets between plain base and gaschecks is about 16-1700fps. Slower barrel twist is almost always better, but, still subject to ideal stabilization twist rates, as bullet weights go higher and bullets go longer in the given caliber. Gaschecks are there to protect the corners of the bullet base. Likewise, if you size a bullet too much, you decrease lube capacity on it, and that can bite you as well, it will lead down towards the muzzle. Some people say you can run a PC-PB bullet a bit quicker, maybe into the 17-1800 range, you are still going to need the right alloy for that speed vs twist range. It is still subject to shear forces because of rotational speed, each hardness range has its limits, and even the hardest, does not have the strength of the copper gilding metal on a jacketed bullet. Paper patching falls somewhere in between lubed PB bullet and up towards a jacketed one, but is a pain in the butt to do large batches of it.

I like the paperpatched bullet. You can use a dead soft slug at higher speeds which generally will expand a lot better. Mind you my molds have a rather large metplat for that purpose. If one patches dry it is rather quite quick to do. I shoot mostly black so I'm not sure if the dry method works with smokless as I see people using sizers to really get it stuck on the bullet. I'm going to find out though when my new mold arrives

[DRE75]

Did some 12ga slugs up today, 7/8 oz Lee key drive. Not sure if I'm going to powdercoat them yet, being in a wad I just don't see a purpose to do it, besides looking cool.


ebay image hosting free

[mgvande]

I don't think PC would be necessary with those. It would look cool though.