Gunsmith shot by police Ontario - Page 3

WolfmanAB · #61 11-09-2021, 10:57 AM

He was a stroke survivor and walked around with a cane. According to those who knew him he moved slow like a sloth. His wife was in her 60s.

cowmanbob · #62 11-09-2021, 11:09 AM

If he occasionally did gunsmithing work for the OPP he would have been fairly easy to apprehend alive.

Ken07AOVette · #63 11-09-2021, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Sticking with the guesses, seeing as how he was a gunsmith and had a customer, it's quite likely he was holding a firearm. If he heard someone suddenly enter, and he faced the door to look, the gun may have been inadvertently pointing towards the door. While I described pretty much the same scenario that you did, my version sounds far less threatening than yours, perhaps because I didn't purposely want to make it appear to be threatening?

Good point, but I would lay dollars to doughnuts if the old fella had the firearm experience everyone has said, he would very likely not point an unloaded firearm at someone making entry, unless he was shocked and

and down the rabbit hole we go. So easy to jump to conclusions when we have ZERO information.

elkhunter11 · #64 11-09-2021, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Good point, but I would lay dollars to doughnuts if the old fella had the firearm experience everyone has said, he would very likely not point an unloaded firearm at someone making entry, unless he was shocked and

and down the rabbit hole we go. So easy to jump to conclusions when we have ZERO information.

He wouldn't even have to actually point it , for someone who is jumpy or paranoid to think that he is pointing it. Simply seeing someone holding a firearm, could cause some people to think they were being threatened.

Jumpy police officers have been known to open fire on another police officer, because they imagined that he was a threat to them.

Cement Bench · #65 11-09-2021, 02:10 PM

was under the impression the Asian wife was unloading groceries and was out face down at gunpoint
one wonders if the gunsmith heard the commotion?

wonder if the customer was an undercover cop or a real customer?

wonder if the customer was told or threatened not to talk by the powers that be?

so,many questions and of course no answers for a lonnnnnnnngggggggg time

Pathfinder76 · #66 11-09-2021, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

If he occasionally did gunsmithing work for the OPP he would have been fairly easy to apprehend alive.

Exactly. This is ridiculous.

nick0danger · #67 11-09-2021, 03:02 PM

To add to the OPP portion, why did the Toronto Police not use local resources? Say the OPP had a relationship with the gunsmith, you go to house with Toronto police, make sure he can't make a run for it, and call him and politely ask him to come outside. Something stinks, and I just hope we find out the real details.

elkhunter11 · #68 11-09-2021, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick0danger

To add to the OPP portion, why did the Toronto Police not use local resources? Say the OPP had a relationship with the gunsmith, you go to house with Toronto police, make sure he can't make a run for it, and call him and politely ask him to come outside. Something stinks, and I just hope we find out the real details.

I sincerely doubt that we will ever learn the truth.

SakoAlberta · #69 11-09-2021, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I sincerely doubt that we will ever learn the truth.

Now, that is the truth.

chickensashimi · #70 11-09-2021, 04:00 PM

......and so it begins......

HyperMOA · #71 11-09-2021, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Apparently the TPS did not notify local OPP detachment that they were executing a search warrant.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...0-year-old-man

That is quite the article. One police officer shot at least 4 rounds. There may have been more, but with certainty one officer did fire at least 4 rounds.

Redhorse Ranch · #72 11-09-2021, 05:30 PM

Anybody remember the Sawyer Robison case? The police and media painted him as all kinds of evil.

He was acquitted of all charges.

This sounds like the same kind of monumental screwup.

Phil McCracken · #73 11-09-2021, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I sincerely doubt that we will ever learn the truth.

With all due respect, I believe we will after the investigation is concluded.

Right now, all we have is media self serving narratives, and what social media and AO think what happened.

...

RandyBoBandy · #74 11-09-2021, 07:01 PM

Is this another reason for body cams, when performing a search?? Or is that just for TV??

glen moa · #75 11-09-2021, 07:10 PM

What is stopping the customer from talking?

elkhunter11 · #76 11-09-2021, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

With all due respect, I believe we will after the investigation is concluded.

Right now, all we have is media self serving narratives, and what social media and AO think what happened.

...

We will only be told the version that the police decide to release to the media, it may, or may not be the truth. We still don't know who gave the illegal orders during the High River gun grab, even after it was ruled that the police exceeded their authority. We only know what actually happened when officers killed the person at the Vancouver airport, because the incident was videotaped. Without the videotape, the officers lies would likely have been accepted as the truth.

brendan's dad · #77 11-09-2021, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

We will only be told the version that the police decide to release to the media, it may, or may not be the truth. We still don't know who gave the illegal orders during the High River gun grab, even after it was ruled that the police exceeded their authority. We only know what actually happened when officers killed the person at the Vancouver airport, because the incident was videotaped. Without the videotape, the officers lies would likely have been accepted as the truth.

If I had a nickle for every time you typed "High River" on AO, I would have retired years ago.

elkhunter11 · #78 11-09-2021, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

If I had a nickle for every time you typed "High River" on AO, I would have retired years ago.

Of course you and the RCMP would like it if everyone just forgot about their illegal activities at High River, and the fact that they were never held accountable. And nobody has been held accountable for them shooting up the firehall, while trying to shoot one of their own in Nova Scotia either.

jungleboy · #79 11-09-2021, 10:19 PM

The fact that there is no information coming out on this incident would suggest that mistakes were made and stories need to be aligned in order to minimize damage

elkhunter11 · #80 11-09-2021, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungleboy

The fact that there is no information coming out on this incident would suggest that mistakes were made and stories need to be aligned in order to minimize damage

The fact that the customer that was supposedly present isn't talking is what concerns me the most. Why isn't he/she talking?

Ken07AOVette · #81 11-09-2021, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The fact that the customer that was supposedly present isn't talking is what concerns me the most. Why isn't he/she talking?

Informant.

You can rest easy now.

Stand down.

Talking moose · #82 11-09-2021, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The fact that the customer that was supposedly present isn't talking is what concerns me the most. Why isn't he/she talking?

Wants to remain alive.

Scott N · #83 11-10-2021, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungleboy

The fact that there is no information coming out on this incident would suggest that mistakes were made and stories need to be aligned in order to minimize damage

Exactly.

waldedw · #84 11-10-2021, 04:30 AM

Wow here we are post #84 and all we know for sure is that a 70 year old gunsmith is dead and was shot by the police with a search warrant, lots of innuendoes and maybe's and what if's and cop bashing but no facts, good to see that the AO Facebook spinoff is alive and well.

elkhunter11 · #85 11-10-2021, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Informant.

You can rest easy now.

Stand down.

I certainly hope not, because if it was an informant,it pretty much guarantees that the truth will never come out.

Scott N · #86 11-10-2021, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waldedw

Wow here we are post #84 and all we know for sure is that a 70 year old gunsmith is dead and was shot by the police with a search warrant, lots of innuendoes and maybe's and what if's and cop bashing but no facts, good to see that the AO Facebook spinoff is alive and well.

I'm not really seeing a lot of cop bashing, but I do see people having some legitimate concerns about this type of police operation. It's ok to be critical of organizations like the government, politicians, law enforcement agencies, they all need to be accountable too.

And while I realize that the investigators can't say anything, maybe they should be making a statement to be putting some public unrest at ease. The public will have to wait for over a year to hear anything about this, does that seem right? Maybe that's policy that should change. This doesn't really seem like a complicated investigation, other than the questions about the warrant and why TPS was involved, sounds like it was over in 5 or 10 seconds, or less. If there's any other possible scenario than tac-team bursts into garage and sees old guy with gun and shoots him because the shooter felt threatened, what could it be? So either gunsmith pointed a gun at the cops, or didn't point a gun at the cops. Shouldn't those tac-team guys all have body cameras, especially on a raid like this? All the "i"s need to be dotted, all the "t"s need to be crossed, but it would be a safe bet that the investigators already know exactly what happened, and what went wrong. They would be doing themselves an immense PR favor by at releasing some basic info.

elkhunter11 · #87 11-10-2021, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott N

I'm not really seeing a lot of cop bashing, but I do see people having some legitimate concerns about this type of police operation. It's ok to be critical of organizations like the government, politicians, law enforcement agencies, they all need to be accountable too.

And while I realize that the investigators can't say anything, maybe they should be making a statement to be putting some public unrest at ease. The public will have to wait for over a year to hear anything about this, does that seem right? Maybe that's policy that should change. This doesn't really seem like a complicated investigation, other than the questions about the warrant and why TPS was involved, sounds like it was over in 5 or 10 seconds, or less. If there's any other possible scenario than tac-team bursts into garage and sees old guy with gun and shoots him because the shooter felt threatened, what could it be? So either gunsmith pointed a gun at the cops, or didn't point a gun at the cops. Shouldn't those tac-team guys all have body cameras, especially on a raid like this? All the "i"s need to be dotted, all the "t"s need to be crossed, but it would be a safe bet that the investigators already know exactly what happened, and what went wrong. They would be doing themselves an immense PR favor by at releasing some basic info.

Absolutely the tac teams should have body cams, then there is a lot less guessing as to the chain of events, it would be good to help prosecute suspects, and to justify any shootings by the police, the truth should always be the priority in a situation like this.

Phil McCracken · #88 11-10-2021, 06:17 AM

Patience is a Virtue.

Definition: The ability to wait for something without frustration is a useful skill and a good aspect of one’s personality.

...

Phil McCracken · #89 11-10-2021, 06:33 AM

This unit will be investigating.

"The SIU is the first of its kind in Canada, and Ontario remains one of the few places worldwide that has an independent civilian agency with the power to both investigate and charge officials with a criminal offence. Borne in 1990 of a crisis of public confidence in a system in which the police policed themselves, the SIU remains today at the forefront of civilian oversight of the police in Canada and around the world amid an international movement toward greater civilian accountability of police".

Smoky buck · #90 11-10-2021, 06:35 AM

Not enough information on what took place or even why they had a no knock warrant