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  #61  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:21 PM
Dan Boone Dan Boone is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
I "wood" would I...... your justification is that bowhunters wound deer but rifle hunters don't.

nicely done sir, nicely done.

and you also say we should make things less equal by seperating better bowhunters from the lesser bowhunters. LOL. so now we should have differen't teirs of draws. newbies get the first month of bowhunting and the hardcore guys get the second month? sounds like you might work for the SRD with this garbage.
Personal attacks on an iPhone spell check! Wow.
Only gets better!

Would u have a problem at draw time next season stating that you intend to hunt mule deer with bow only? And in doing so, forfeiting your rifle draw?
But u are limited to bow season only!
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  #62  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:24 PM
muledeerking muledeerking is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
And there lies my problem, it's open to everyone.
Wether they can hit a barn at 30 yards or I can stick em in a tennis ball at 50.

I've never killed a mule deer or whitetail or elk with a bow. But I have never missed one or crippled one that got away either.

Separating the seasons will seperate you truely great archers from us part time guys.
No it will not. most apply for the oppurtunity for a tag later in life. or apply just cause they can. Cadomin draw is a prime eg of that. Most dont have a clue what they are doing and just waiste that tag as they just applied do to being able too. Same will go for everything else.
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  #63  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:27 PM
muledeerking muledeerking is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
If u read back through this post and some other of my posts, you wood see this has been my justification all along. Jeez man

And I want a muzzy season!
You already do. It is a rifle and they allow a month for that. I know lots that do this.
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  #64  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:31 PM
muledeerking muledeerking is offline
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Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
how is that equal? you preached equality earlier.
This has nothing to do a bout equal. @ months of archery is not even close to 1 month of gun hunting. Watch the hunting forum the pics will really start rolling in as of nov1 for deer. Heck were rifle is open already they already are. I also agree with pottymouth about muzzle loaders. Heck they make a muzzleloader that can shoot 700+ yards. not a muzzle loader it is a rifle with limitations.
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  #65  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by muledeerking View Post
This has nothing to do a bout equal. @ months of archery is not even close to 1 month of gun hunting. Watch the hunting forum the pics will really start rolling in as of nov1 for deer. Heck were rifle is open already they already are. I also agree with pottymouth about muzzle loaders. Heck they make a muzzleloader that can shoot 700+ yards. not a muzzle loader it is a rifle with limitations.
There is a policy in place that archers get 15% of harvest and rifle hunters get 85% so it would make more sense that you'd see far more rifle pictures.
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  #66  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
Personal attacks on an iPhone spell check! Wow.
Only gets better!

Would u have a problem at draw time next season stating that you intend to hunt mule deer with bow only? And in doing so, forfeiting your rifle draw?
But u are limited to bow season only!
Yes I would have a problem with that, a big problem. The current system is not broken so why fix it. the only thing that is broken is the gross overharvest by rifle hunters that drove populations through the floor.

I have been 999'ing my mulie draw for the past 4 years due to time restraints in november and garbage deer numbers. Next year I plan to draw that tag. I would also like to be able to head to that zone to hunt that buck with my bow in sep/oct.

Another scenario to punch holes in your hair brained idea with regards to more restrictions of bowhunters based on skill. You want the skilled guys and newbies/casual guys hunting different seasons. As part of our duties as hunters/outdoorsmen it is our duty and obligation to pass this way of life on to our children and friends who are interested. When my children are old enough to bowhunt, by your plan, I could not hunt with them. A new hunter would not be able to hunt at the same time as his buddies who are trying to get him into the sport.

Also, how would one come about determining who goes into each tier. Heck some 14 year old kid who has been brought up around bows his whole life and is a crack shot is a better hunter then a guy who may be out there hardcore every day but rarely practices and is not a great shot. who goes into which tier? do we need to spend a bunch of money to set up a committee and program to go around to everyone before draws are put in each year and determine who gets to go in each season?

truly head shaking
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  #67  
Old 10-13-2012, 01:27 PM
muledeerking muledeerking is offline
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
There is a policy in place that archers get 15% of harvest and rifle hunters get 85% so it would make more sense that you'd see far more rifle pictures.
Thanks for the info TJ. I was not disputing that. I was stating the fact that rifle hunting is the reason numbers are down. Not buy all the super bow hunters that is protrayed here. Yes there are some unreal bow hunters but most are trophy hunters as well so there harvest numbers are way dow annyway. So as stated before this is all a sham.
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  #68  
Old 10-13-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
can you post a link sheep?

I will.



ANTLERED MULE DEER ARCHERY TO DRAW - AESRD

Open Link for Maps of Archery Harvest by WMU.

http://www.bowhunters.ca/files/Downl...0on%20Draw.doc

Quote:
ANTLERED MULE DEER ARCHERY TO DRAW - AESRD

1. CURRENT SITUATION

There are currently no mule deer archery seasons which require the authority of a special licence to hunt. A resident mule deer licence is currently valid for all archery seasons for antlered mule deer. It is within the Fish and Wildlife policy to put archery seasons under authority of a special licence when archery harvest exceeds 15%. Currently, this has only occurred with moose (both antlered and antlerless) and antlered elk in various WMUs throughout the province.

2. CONCERN

Archery harvest on antlered mule deer exceeds 15% in many WMUs throughout the province, Figure 1 and according to policy should be put on draw for archery. Mule deer populations have also been reduced throughout much of the province due to liberal hunting seasons and recent winter mortality. Mule deer populations are now below goal in many WMUs and as a result rifle harvest opportunities have been reduced, while archery opportunities remain unaffected. Concern has also been expressed from some stakeholders regarding the over harvest of antlered mule deer, of which archery harvest is one pressure.


3. INFORMATION TO SUPPORT CHANGE

Archery harvest on antlered mule deer was examined by prairie area fish and wildlife staff for the period 2003-2007 (Figure 2) and again in 2010 (Figure 1)by the Wildlife Management Branch. There are many WMUs where the 15% threshold has been exceeded, in many cases for an extended period of time.

4. ALTERNATIVES

1. Maintain the current system with archery on a general license for antlered mule deer.
2. Once antlered mule deer harvest by bow hunters exceeds 15% or another predetermined threshold, archery hunting will require a special licence, which would be valid during the archery and rifle season.
3. Create a separate antlered mule deer archery special licence and run a separate draw, similar to the manner in which antelope is run.


Open Link for Maps of Archery Harvest by WMU.







From ABA re. Mule Deer Draw Points

http://www.bowhunters.ca/files/Downl...nts%20web.docx

Quote:
Points of interest
- Every email address registered on Alberta Relm gets an online harvest survey.
- Each survey asks questions about every tag the hunter had.
- The survey goes out to approximately 60000 email addresses.
- The response rate overall has been app _____%.
- Only archery harvests from general antlered mule deer licenses are counted as archery kills.
- Before looking to implement needing to have a special license (draw) to hunt a species in the archery season, SRD monitors the harvest rates for several years (in many cases up to 5) to ensure there is a definite trend.
- Bowhunters are allowed approximately 15% of the harvest (based on there being 17000 bowhunters out of approximately 110000 hunters in total).

The ABA has asked SRD for the yearly and 5 year average (2006-2011) for each of the app 55 WMUs that are proposed for needing a special license (draw) to hunt antlered mule deer in the archery season starting in 2013. SRD will provide that information as soon as is possible. The 2011 harvest survey results have yet to be compiled.

How the harvest rate is determined

The ABA has asked for an outline of the method used to determine the harvest.

Questions for SRD

What has the overall response rate to the survey been?
Of the 5000 surveys in 2011 that went to mule deer hunters, what was the response rate?
Am I right in that the ratio used is the 5000 to 14500 comparison? Or would it be the results of the actual respondents (of the 5000 sent) that are compared to the overall licenses sold?
In some WMUs that had a very small sample size are the results accurate? If you had 2 or 3 respondents to the survey and they all happened to kill a mule deer buck, then expanding that to the total number who said they hunted in that WMU you could end up with a huge estimated archery kill.
Is there a way to get the actual numbers of surveys sent/response rate for each of the affected WMUs?
In the app 55 WMUs where bhtrs are over the 15%, are the total antlered mule deer harvest goals being met? Are there some that have bhtrs killing more than 15% but overall, we are still not meeting harvest goals? If that is the case should these WMUs be left off the proposal list? Or would the special license tags available for the draw be increased to meet harvest goals?
Some concerns raised from bhtrs (especially in the south) that up to now they have not put in for the draw and going forward will be starting out at “0” – be very few bhtrs in the pool for some years. A lot of archers do not apply right now but they will if it goes on draw, which adds a whole bunch more people into the pool. This could make the waiting times for tags even greater even though the bowhunting share has been added back in.
There was some brief discussion at AGMAG (and I have been getting ?? as well) about the possibility of moving to an archery draw for antlered mule deer like antelope. SRD said if that was considered it would likely mean moving more than just mule deer (still lots of discussion I am thinking before moving down that road). How would the number of tags given out for this type of archery draw be determined? Based on past harvest history?
Has there been thought of waiting until the Mule Deer Mgt Plan Review has been completed before moving forward on this proposal? I know from talking to some people and it was brought up at one AGMAG meeting that we could increase our population goals in some WMUs (and thus the overall harvest goal and then the bhtr share would then be under 15% possibly) from the old 1988 numbers.

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  #69  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by muledeerking View Post
Thanks for the info TJ. I was not disputing that. I was stating the fact that rifle hunting is the reason numbers are down. Not buy all the super bow hunters that is protrayed here. Yes there are some unreal bow hunters but most are trophy hunters as well so there harvest numbers are way dow annyway. So as stated before this is all a sham.
I don't think either group is really to blame. The harvest is pretty well set by draw for the rifle hunters so you point really doesn't hold water. Always important to look at the big picture.
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  #70  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:11 PM
BTK BTK is offline
 
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Sask archery season runs Sept and Oct, muzzy season runs in Oct. Any zones that have less than 50 muley tags available, and earn a buck zones cannot be hunted with archery gear.

I dont have numbers to prove this but Im willing to bet that close to 75% of mule deer harvested by archery gear are done so by mid September.
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  #71  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:12 PM
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While Rifle licences drop while Landowner Licences increase.


There is a finite allowable allocation on Antelered Mule Deer.


If it is deemed neccessary to put Archery on a draw, perhaps Landowner Licences need to be reduced and put on a draw as well.

This should at least be on the table with AESRD.
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  #72  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:41 PM
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GREAT!!! couldnt be happier! I know far too many guys that consider themselves superior sportsmen or true purists simply becausenthey carry a bow. Yet in my area (232) they are all out opening morning with their bow, running any mule they can....knowing that 232 has been crushed by the mismanagement of tags, cwd, and the influx of road only hunters
From edmonton and beyond.

232 needs a few good years of just being
Untouched....im sure other areas are the same. If you cant man up and
Be willing to not shoot a mulie for a couple seasons you probably
Dont deserve the privilege anyways.
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  #73  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:12 PM
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Is there a petition or anything against archery draw? I'm absolutely 100% against this garbage. I love bow hunting, and it's bad enough that I wait 6+ years for a rifle draw tag in the zone I hunt. I see it as reduced hunting opportunity across the board for all residents. Get the Saskatchewan management plan in effect here!
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  #74  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:31 PM
Dan Boone Dan Boone is offline
 
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Just as I suspected. "I want, I want" not much different than others wanting what they want.

As for a tiered system for bowhunting, that is your brain child not mine.
All I said was choose your weapon, nothing about a tiered archery system.

By stating which weapon u will use, we would eleminate these guys that hunt with bows as opposed to the Bowhunters! As you put it!


So u want to keep your right to hunt mule deer every year, while increasing priority? Sounds like you want everything for yourself!

Good old Alberta, take what you can whir you can!
Scary


Quote:
Originally Posted by mulecrazy View Post
Yes I would have a problem with that, a big problem. The current system is not broken so why fix it. the only thing that is broken is the gross overharvest by rifle hunters that drove populations through the floor.

I have been 999'ing my mulie draw for the past 4 years due to time restraints in november and garbage deer numbers. Next year I plan to draw that tag. I would also like to be able to head to that zone to hunt that buck with my bow in sep/oct.

Another scenario to punch holes in your hair brained idea with regards to more restrictions of bowhunters based on skill. You want the skilled guys and newbies/casual guys hunting different seasons. As part of our duties as hunters/outdoorsmen it is our duty and obligation to pass this way of life on to our children and friends who are interested. When my children are old enough to bowhunt, by your plan, I could not hunt with them. A new hunter would not be able to hunt at the same time as his buddies who are trying to get him into the sport.

Also, how would one come about determining who goes into each tier. Heck some 14 year old kid who has been brought up around bows his whole life and is a crack shot is a better hunter then a guy who may be out there hardcore every day but rarely practices and is not a great shot. who goes into which tier? do we need to spend a bunch of money to set up a committee and program to go around to everyone before draws are put in each year and determine who gets to go in each season?

truly head shaking
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  #75  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by elkmakemecrazy View Post
These bowhunter versus rifle hunter threads are always interesting too me.

Everyone always states the divide is because of "inequality" or it is "unfair" bowhunters have so much more opportunity.

So what people are basically saying with this statement is someone else has something that I want, but instead of taking advantage of the opportunity that exists for everyone people want to take it away from others or change it to meet there wants. This is quite the attitude.

Now if there is an issue relating to actual wildlife management sure put it on draw or close the season. I have no issue with this. Just don't take opportunities away because it is "not equal" or "unfair".
^^ Well put! I just got back into hunting last year after a long lay off. I loved it so much I started bow hunting this year.

I'm one of those guys that is making the most of the opportunites out there and learning to bow hunt. I'm not coming on here whining and trying to take opportunities away from other hunters.

DB - I guess I'm one of those "fake bow hunters" who don't deserve to hunt? When I took up hunting again was I a "rifle hunter" or just a guy pretending to be because I walked around in the bush with a gun? Maybe we should eliminate muzzle loading season altogether, I honestly don't see why they even have it? It's not really a "primitive weapon" anymore is it?
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  #76  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:55 PM
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The point being in my opinion is, with the exploding population here and the ever increasing waits for draws, it will come to a point where a hunter has to make a choice...you want to hunt with a bow?...fine apply for the bow draw, rifle??.. same thing...the bowhunters are obviously near to, or exceeding the 15% (wonder when they came up with that #?), so it goes on a draw, if they split it into Bow draw or Rifle draw , it MIGHT help reduce wait times for everyone????...just thinkin' here
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  #77  
Old 10-13-2012, 03:58 PM
Dan Boone Dan Boone is offline
 
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Did not day you don't deserve to hunt, but you do deserve to pick your weapon.

In case you missed it, muzzleloader seasons have been all but eliminated in Alberta. P3 for Camp Wainright this year and still missed it.

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Originally Posted by Zuludog View Post
^^ Well put! I just got back into hunting last year after a long lay off. I loved it so much I started bow hunting this year.


I'm one of those guys that is making the most of the opportunites out there and learning to bow hunt. I'm not coming on here whining and trying to take opportunities away from other hunters.

DB - I guess I'm one of those "fake bow hunters" who don't deserve to hunt? When I took up hunting again was I a "rifle hunter" or just a guy pretending to be because I walked around in the bush with a gun? Maybe we should eliminate muzzle loading season altogether, I honestly don't see why they even have it? It's not really a "primitive weapon" anymore is it?
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  #78  
Old 10-13-2012, 04:03 PM
Dan Boone Dan Boone is offline
 
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Originally Posted by hal53 View Post
The point being in my opinion is, with the exploding population here and the ever increasing waits for draws, it will come to a point where a hunter has to make a choice...you want to hunt with a bow?...fine apply for the bow draw, rifle??.. same thing...the bowhunters are obviously near to, or exceeding the 15% (wonder when they came up with that #?), so it goes on a draw, if they split it into Bow draw or Rifle draw , it MIGHT help reduce wait times for everyone????...just thinkin' here
Thank you Al, splitting them should reduce wait times for both.
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  #79  
Old 10-13-2012, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
Thank you Al, splitting them should reduce wait times for both.
no problem Kan....
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  #80  
Old 10-13-2012, 05:01 PM
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Wow, the type of logic that has been thrown around in here is enough to make one's head implode.

First, I'll start by saying that I'm a die hard bow hunter, and if I have to make a choice between whether I hunt with a rifle or bow then there is no question that I'll choose bow. I'll also say that I think mule deer going on a draw for archery sucks. My main reason for saying it sucks that I really question the reliability of the online survey as a means of determining that our general season should be removed. Also, I have no doubt that now that the general hunting public is being made aware that the online survey can be used as a means to take away hunter opportunity, that the results of it will be amazingly skewed in the future. I don't think there is any doubt that people will be lying about what they shot and where they shot it out of fear of losing their hunting privileges. Call it selfish, call it dishonest, hell, condemn it in any way out like, but the bottom line is that it will almost certainly happen from here on out. All that being said, if it can be reliably shown that archers are taking more than their fair share of the harvest, then I guess that I can live with it going on a draw, even though I still don't like it. Lets face it, once the general season is taken away, its not likely to ever come back. A loss of opportunity hurts us all, not just a single group. Today it is archers' hunting allocations, next it will be rifle hunters' allocations.

Now, I have to address some of the drivel that has been all over this thread. I honestly had a hard time wrapping my head around what I was reading at times. I'll start here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
So mulecrazy, u feel it Is your god given right to chase mule deer 3 months each year?
Let's open up for rifle on sept 1st as well.
That way between the archers and rifle guys we can ensure every big buck is killed long before they have a chance to reproduce.
Get a clue man, the divide is caused by the inequality that exists right now. Evening out the playing field might just bring the 2 together better.
Bowhunters should have first access but difinately not a 2 month season!
First, why do you feel the need to imply that he feels its his god given right to hunt 3 months out of the year? The bottom line is that the rules stipulated that we could hunt 3 months out of the year if we bought and archery tag and also got drawn for the rifle season. Was it his god given right to hunt within those stipulations? Sure as hell was. Does he have a god given right to be upset by the loss of opportunity? Sure he does. I have no idea what this particular statement had to do with anything - it was essentially nothing more than an ad-hominem attack that had no substance.

Next, your statement that "we should just let rifle hunters start on Sept 1, that way we can kill all the deer" is just silly. Want to make sure all the deer are killed? Remove bow hunting all together and just let the rifle hunters take care of it - they'll do it in short order. This statement is just ridiculous. You speak about inequality, well the reason for the so called "inequality" is that the weapon you have such a gripe about is so much less efficient an effective than the other one you speak of. It takes bow hunters 2 months of being able to hunt 6-7 days per week to meet or exceed the 15% allocation in some zones (and they don't even meet the 15% of many zones), while it takes rifle hunters a whopping 4 weeks to meet the 85% allocation of kills - it also takes less hunting days per week since the prairie zones only allow you to hunt 4 days a week. Evening out the playing field? Please explain to me how taking opportunity away from the group that harvests 15% of the animals evens the playing field? Ok, so archery success may drop from 15% to 10%, please tell me how the playing field has been evened? Archers shoot less animals, but rifle hunters will still shoot as many as they ever did. Yes, this sounds like a great way to bring the 2 sides together.

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Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
I don't eat deer meat, so why shoot an animal I do not want?
I have killed a couple nice mule deer with my muzzle loader though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
I prefer muzzleloader to bow. Is that a crime, am I to be shipped off to he'll for my preference?
So let me get this straight, its ok for you to kill deer with your muzzie but not with a bow? I don't follow what you are trying to get at here. You ask the rhetorical question "why shoot an animal I don't want" as justification for you not killing a mule deer with your bow, but on the very next line you say that you did, in fact, shoot several animals that you didn't want with your muzzie. You later state that you gave the animals to a friend of yours, that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that you totally contradicted yourself in saying that you don't shoot mule deer with a bow because you don't like them but that you will shoot them with a muzzie.

Next, no, you are not to be shipped off to hell for your preference to use a muzzie. Use whatever you like! But by that same token, bow hunters should not be shipped to hell for not wanting to give up a season that they have had for years and years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
And there lies my problem, it's open to everyone.
Wether they can hit a barn at 30 yards or I can stick em in a tennis ball at 50.
Ok, by that logic, please tell me where it states that putting in for the draw isn't open to just anyone, whether or not they can hit a 1" dot or can't hit a 1' square at 100 yards? Do you really think that the draw acts as a deterrent for those with less skill? Not very likely. The same guys that can't hit a barn at 30 with a bow are likely the same people that can't hit a 1' square with their rifle - they will be out there regardless. Again, your logic does not support your argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
I just can't justify a 2 month bow season!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
And I want a muzzy season!
So let me get this straight, you want to remove a portion of the season that belongs to a weapon that accounts for 15% of the harvest over a 2 month period, in favor of adding a season for a weapon that is more or less as effective as a rifle? Please explain where the logic lies in that. The success rates for muzzle loader will absolutely dwarf the success that occurs in bow season. You will actually end up having more animals killed in the month of October by doing this than you would if you left bow season alone. Again, you totally undermine your own argument. Please refer back to the first thing I quoted wherein you stated that we should just turn the rifle guys loose early and kill all the animals.

I'm guessing your justification for this will be that we should just offer a very limited number of muzzie tags. Well, yes, I suppose that will work fine, but it will be at the expense of even more hunting opportunity. That's all we need, just keep taking our own opportunities away until we have none. That leads me to my next point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Boone View Post
It's fine the way it is or less if I had a choice. Starting about nov 20th.
To allow some good genetics to be passed on.
Ok, now I see the pattern. Are you sure you actually like hunting? Because as far as I can tell, you are all about removing opportunity at ever turn. Not only do you want bow season to go on draw or be cut in half, but you would like rifle hunters to have their time reduced from 4 weeks to 11 days. Gotcha. That's great. This may come as a surprise, but every year Alberta puts out some of the biggest animals in the world, despite the seasons that are currently in place. The genetics are clearly being passed on. You want to look for the culprit of reduced mule deer numbers? Look no further than the massive CWD culls and the issuing of astronomical tag numbers throughout the south over the past several years - yes, tags that were issued to rifle hunters. Don't put the blame on bow hunters - that's clearly not where it lies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jryley View Post
GREAT!!! couldnt be happier! I know far too many guys that consider themselves superior sportsmen or true purists simply becausenthey carry a bow. Yet in my area (232) they are all out opening morning with their bow, running any mule they can....knowing that 232 has been crushed by the mismanagement of tags, cwd, and the influx of road only hunters
From edmonton and beyond.

I don't even know why I'm going to acknowledge this because its just clear that you don't like bow hunters. I'll rephrase it for you so that it reflects what some of my experiences have been.

Rifle season has been reduced to 2 weeks? GREAT!!! Couldn't be happier! I know far too many guys that consider themselves superior sportsmen or true purists simply because they shoot the latest Coopers or Christianson rifle. Yet in my area (various areas of the south), they are all out there opening morning with their rifles, running any mule they can...knowing that the entire south has been crushed by the mismanagement of tags, cwd, and influx of road only hunters from Medicine Hat, Calgary, and beyond.

See how ridiculous that looks? Yeah. I don't even know why I wasted the effort to type it out.
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  #81  
Old 10-13-2012, 05:17 PM
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^^^ wasn't all that long ago thet you could buy 3 of the 4 tags, WT, Mule, Elk or Moose, all in General, then Mules went to that assinine 3 point rule, then bow hunters figured out they could hunt an extra 6-8 weeks on the same tag -for a $5.00 Bowhunting stamp ( could never figure that one out)...then with increasing pressure, things started to change, shortened seasons in the 300's, then a few started to go to draw, then a lot went to draw, now we are mostly draw....with minimum 2-3 year waits, and generally 6-10 year waits. But anybody with a Bow can still go out and hunt for 2 months??...the number of bow hunters (?) has increased dramatically over the last 20 years, as has their equipment, a guy posted on here the other day of putting an arrow in an animal at 75 yards, that was unheard of when I Bow hunted...things change, pressure changes, population of game animals, everyone wants more and more, as long as the next guy gives up something....
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:24 PM
Icefisher2885 Icefisher2885 is online now
 
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^^^ wasn't all that long ago thet you could buy 3 of the 4 tags, WT, Mule, Elk or Moose, all in General, then Mules went to that assinine 3 point rule, then bow hunters figured out they could hunt an extra 6-8 weeks on the same tag -for a $5.00 Bowhunting stamp ( could never figure that one out)...then with increasing pressure, things started to change, shortened seasons in the 300's, then a few started to go to draw, then a lot went to draw, now we are mostly draw....with minimum 2-3 year waits, and generally 6-10 year waits. But anybody with a Bow can still go out and hunt for 2 months??...the number of bow hunters (?) has increased dramatically over the last 20 years, as has their equipment, a guy posted on here the other day of putting an arrow in an animal at 75 yards, that was unheard of when I Bow hunted...things change, pressure changes, population of game animals, everyone wants more and more, as long as the next guy gives up something....
Seems the only ones that want people to give up something are the rifle hunters wanting bow hunters to give up their season. Bow can still go out and hunt for 2 months, yet they still fail to meet the 15% harvest allocation in many zones(actually most - most of the zones up for going to draw are done so simply because of the additional pressure they would face from closing others) . Please tell me why the season should be reduced in such areas? I already said at the beginning of my post that if the numbers are in fact reliable, that the season should be put on a draw if the harvest allocation is being exceeded, so don't throw that back at me. So again, please tell me why opportunity should be reduced from 2 months when the harvest numbers are at or below what they need to be? Someone killing a deer at 75 yards as justification doesn't cut it.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:26 PM
eggo eggo is offline
 
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Default Mule deer draw

Mule deer in the south need to be on a draw. Limit the number of hunters not the weapons they use,it's pretty easy to figure success rates, give out tags accordingly. One type of weapon should not have more opportunities than any other one.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:30 PM
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I would think that the only reason they are looking at a draw is because the 15% is or near to being met??? perhaps you can supply some real numbers , other than speculation???...there has been a helluva lot of Bow kills posted here, and good on the guys, but.......and the 75 yard comment was put in just because, as I've said...remarkable shot!!!...good on him.....don't get me into the debate now, how a bunch of new bowhunters didn't read that and are now flinging arrows at way past their practice range...I have killed 2 animals with Bow wounds with a rifle, and neither was anywhere near the kill zone...so we won't go there , okay???
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:34 PM
Icefisher2885 Icefisher2885 is online now
 
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Mule deer in the south need to be on a draw. Limit the number of hunters not the weapons they use,it's pretty easy to figure success rates, give out tags accordingly. One type of weapon should not have more opportunities than any other one.
Everybody keeps saying this, but nobody will provide any reasons as to WHY. Simply saying that one weapon should not have more opportunity than another just isn't a reason! Rifle hunters, who make up 85% of the total harvest, don't get as much time to hunt as the group who makes up 15% of the total harvest, therefore, the guys who shoot a whopping 15% of the animals should not get to hunt as much because its not fair to the guys who shoot nearly 9 out of every 10 animals? Give me a break.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:36 PM
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I would think that the only reason they are looking at a draw is because the 15% is or near to being met??? ??
According to ESRD from data gathered over the past 10 years, the 15% cap is being exceeded in many WMUs...significantly in some.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:36 PM
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Seems the only ones that want people to give up something are the rifle hunters wanting bow hunters to give up their season. Bow can still go out and hunt for 2 months, yet they still fail to meet the 15% harvest allocation in many zones(actually most - most of the zones up for going to draw are done so simply because of the additional pressure they would face from closing others) . Please tell me why the season should be reduced in such areas? I already said at the beginning of my post that if the numbers are in fact reliable, that the season should be put on a draw if the harvest allocation is being exceeded, so don't throw that back at me. So again, please tell me why opportunity should be reduced from 2 months when the harvest numbers are at or below what they need to be? Someone killing a deer at 75 yards as justification doesn't cut it.
If what you are saying is true about bow hunting percentages then if it goes to draw every bow hunt will get drawn 100 percent of the time
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:38 PM
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According to ESRD from data gathered over the past 10 years, the 15% cap is being exceeded in many WMUs...significantly in some.
My bad for including that TJ, I knew that from a post you made quite awhile ago.... was just trying to make a point.....
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:38 PM
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2 points....

Harvest reports by hunters ARE VOLUNTARY , so the whole population is not surveyed. The information also has no way to be qualified either. I also believe there is no question on the survey , asking type of weapon. But yet this is their #1 resource for saying that archers are over their cap. It also includes bow only zones, that show100% muley mortality by bow and 0% by rifle. Without a MANDATORY registration , like sheep, the data is not an accurate representation.

Srd , also has ZERO interest in managing herds for quality.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:38 PM
Icefisher2885 Icefisher2885 is online now
 
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I would think that the only reason they are looking at a draw is because the 15% is or near to being met??? perhaps you can supply some real numbers , other than speculation???...there has been a helluva lot of Bow kills posted here, and good on the guys, but.......and the 75 yard comment was put in just because, as I've said...remarkable shot!!!...good on him.....don't get me into the debate now, how a bunch of new bowhunters didn't read that and are now flinging arrows at way past their practice range...I have killed 2 animals with Bow wounds with a rifle, and neither was anywhere near the kill zone...so we won't go there , okay???
I never went there at all, but you did, so lets go! If we are going to start counting how many deer each hunter as found with bow wounds as compared to rifle wounds you really aren't going to like the outcome. Do I need to start by talking about how many rifle shot animals I've found with shots nowhere near the kill zone? Because I'll tell you right now its a hell of a lot more than the number of deer I've found with arrows in their ass, which is a grand total of 1! Its a simple numbers game, one hell of a lot more bullets get flung at deer each year then arrows - therefore, based simply on math, one hell of a lot more deer are going to be wounded by bullets than arrows.

Your arguments just don't hold any water. They are considering a draw because the 15% is being met in some areas? Well no kidding, I already said that. I also said that if the 15% is being met then the season should go to draw. What about the areas (which is most areas) that it 15% is not being met? Bottom line, you guys are complaining about the length of the bow season, but can't provide a reason as to why it should be shortened outside of arguing that its not fair.

Ill qualify that my last statement was made with regards to areas where the 15% harvest is not being met.
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