Archery Mule Deer Draw for 2013 Season? - Page 9

eggo · #**241** 10-14-2012, 06:14 PM

Why not

hal53 · #**242** 10-14-2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggo

Why not

1)...last time at Camp WW, they quit collecting heads the first day after lunch, "they had enough"
2) they have freezers everywhere, ask how many gas station owners etc, asked them to take them out, as they didn't want to be responsible for disposing of the contents the following spring
3) nobody except some bios in SRD cares about CWD, it has been around for ever... but that's another thread...we won't go there....

Dan Boone · #**243** 10-14-2012, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

So why would they even admit killing anything ? Just pretend they didn't and do it again next year.

I would like to see moose go on draw for bowhunters as well. Make it so you can only apply for one tag or the other ( rifle or bow ) and make the seasons the full length. Any true bow hunter would only ever apply for an archery tag and rifle hunters would likely do the same. Most bow hunters should be able to get a tag every year anyway. Mule deer or Moose would work great this way.

Finally, someone that agrees with me.
Bowhunt or rifle hunt. Not both!
Seperate it, draw or no draw

Full Curl Earl · #**244** 10-14-2012, 06:58 PM

So were all clear, this draw change has nothing to do with conserving mule deer populations. I just spent 4 days looking for a good buck on the Milk River ridge. The new oil wells everywhere in prime habitat was stunning! We can normally find 4 or 5 170" plus bucks but this time not one! Rifle hunters apparently took 70 bucks last season off the Ridge. TJ's recent article about management being solely placed on hunters was smack on. Mule deer numbers are drowning not because of bow hunters, but because of habitat loss. Getting rid of the 10 bow kills in WMU 108 per year will do very little to help out these deer. After seeing how much more involved the U.S is in wildlife management while hunting there the past 5 years, it's opened my eyes as to how toothless our system is. Big money runs this Province and after 40 years of it's decline its discouraging. Ok, I feel better now. Turnout gear on, flame away!

Zuludog · #**245** 10-14-2012, 07:17 PM

FCEarl - Be careful,

don't attack "big oil" you'll be labelled a nut job or worse.

hal53 · #**246** 10-14-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

So were all clear, this draw change has nothing to do with conserving mule deer populations. I just spent 4 days looking for a good buck on the Milk River ridge. The new oil wells everywhere in prime habitat was stunning! We can normally find 4 or 5 170" plus bucks but this time not one! Rifle hunters apparently took 70 bucks last season off the Ridge. TJ's recent article about management being solely placed on hunters was smack on. Mule deer numbers are drowning not because of bow hunters, but because of habitat loss. Getting rid of the 10 bow kills in WMU 108 per year will do very little to help out these deer. After seeing how much more involved the U.S is in wildlife management while hunting there the past 5 years, it's opened my eyes as to how toothless our system is. Big money runs this Province and after 40 years of it's decline its discouraging. Ok, I feel better now. Turnout gear on, flame away!

So at the risk of being pro oil, some wells on the ridge were the reason for your lack of success??? (funny deer around here have put up with them and thrived on and around the leases for many years,) or it's too many rifle hunters???...or the U.S. does a better job????...pretty vague, but pretty easy to blame everyone and everything else cause you didn't see the number of Deer you normally see.....how were the last few winters down there?....how many tags were given out?...even after 2 bad winters???...lots more in the pot here....#1 problem in this Province is too many damn tags, there is another thread here about the older hunters, you know what?...back then you shot 1 animal, that's all you had a tag for....the guys these days are whining if they can't kill a General, get 2-3 supplementals and get a draw for another one, so " myfamily can eat???.... BS!!!!!! Rant Done with.....

blackpheasant · #**247** 10-14-2012, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuludog

FCEarl - Be careful,

don't attack "big oil" you'll be labelled a nut job or worse.

Just curious what does "big oil" mean ?

AxeMan · #**248** 10-14-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtisb

Well... I read the whole thread and have to say I'm at least 15% stupider... lol
It also did get the blood boiling.

Guys; there are no facts. I think H380 nailed it, 2 sides pitted against one another; and the stronger side will win. Same reason resident Albertan's don't reside in Teepees.

Here's my (3) non factual opions/aguement for the little guy (bowhunter side):

1. there is a big BIG difference between a bowhunter and a guy who bowhunts. BIG difference in menality also.
2. it is exponentially more difficult to harvest an aminal with a bow than a rifle, muzzleloader, or Xbow. for people who hunt with bows, or bowhunters to say that "anyone" can kill an animal with a gun is absolutely ridiculous, borderline out of line.
3. i really and truly believe the numbers of mule deer harvested by bow hunters have no effect on the annual harvest, NONE!. again not based on fact or fiction, purely opinion, the same way SRD are doing it. the 15% doesn't mean anything. (IMO) what is happening now is that the supposid 15% harvest is taking 15% of opportunity(or in some cases more) from the guys who waited for their draw tags. (most of which hunt with guns - whom are the majority - whom ultimately make the decisions.) sad but true.
4. therefore, a draw system will do nothing.

Clear, I think so... an arguement for the ages.

I hunt don't hunt with a bow. I'm a bow hunter, and I know 100% that it's not a battle we can win or will win...lol

Well, at least you did qualify this ridiculous statement by saying it is an opinion and is not factual but is held by some.

I have a strong feeling SRD is not going to agree with it as well

I read the whole thread too with an open mind and one thing that sticks out clearly for me is that some bowhunters are not willing to accept they must be considered in the wildlife management plan.

By using the excuse that it will limit opportunity is correct, especially for them. Sure, anyone can bow hunt, there is nothing stopping anyone. That I will not dispute. By saying it will limit opportunity for all is not a fair statement though. If you choose not to bowhunt your opportunity is already being limited by the draw. (bowhunters, don't get your neck hairs up yet....read on)

The whole dilemna here will lie in that 15% harvest quota being set aside for the bow hunting season. I don't really know what is the right number there but I would hope SRD can get some good data and analyze it properly. I believe in an open opportunity up to a certain percentage of harvest for bowhunting because of its unique nature.

I feel bow hunters must be willing the accept that they must be part of the mangement plan in principle and the actual data integrity is another matter for discussion but surely that could be straightened out. It is strict for sheep management already.

I think it is fair that SRD would consider managing tag allotment by the choice of weapon in a wildlife management plan. I won't buy into the argument that a completely open season is justified for a one choice of weapon just because of the fact it is much more challenging. If the harvest becomes significant it must be managed a fair draw system. A special season is already allotted for that which is liberal in time frame.

Also many hunters that are bowhunters as well put in for the rifle season draw which gives them opportunity beyond the bow only season.

How could this not be fair and reasonable?

shedcrazy · #**249** 10-14-2012, 08:12 PM

I agree if seasons are going to change based on the 15% rule it would be nice to see the numbers. A lot of zones have some crazy amount of antlerless tags and I have a hard time believing that 15% of the total harvest is happening in the archery zones. Some of the proposed draw WMUs listed still have undersubscribed tags. Is this a management issue or trophy problem? Is there really a problem? It is confusing.

Quote:

1)...last time at Camp WW, they quit collecting heads the first day after lunch, "they had enough"

In the last 5 yrs they have collected at least 95% of the heads off the base so that isn't true lately.

Zuludog · #**250** 10-14-2012, 08:25 PM

BP - I'm sure you an figure it out.

Hal - I you're right there could be lots of factors as to why the Mulies are in "decline" there, if indeed they are. The fact that guys can and will shoot 5 or six or more animals a year is BS, especially under the guise of "cheap meat". I think there are very few guys who can hunt deer cheaper than buying meat. Maybe if you have land, and a hand me down gun and shoot one off of your porch or in the "back forty" sure it might be cheaper. I know by the time I pay for gas, ammo, tags and hunting "toys" it is the most expensive meat in my freezer and I suspect for most people it is the same.

I find this thread a mix of interesting and down right sad. I never really realized the animosity there is towards bow hunters or the division between different groups of hunters, in general. It is no wonder we are "losing" to the antis, we can't even stop bickering and fighting amongst ourselves. It seems everyone is so worried about losing what they have that we can't put our differences aside and work for the good of hunting in general.

I think everyone can agree that we would like to see increased numbers of deer, quality of deer and no draws in an ideal world? To do that we would need to decrease hunting pressure and that can be done by limiting the groups that harvest the most deer. I'm assuming that is rifle hunters and outfitter allocations?

No one here can argue that rifle hunters are less efficient than bow hunters, can they? Sure we see pics of deers harvested or see "tons of bow hunters" in the field but I seriously doubt they are actually harvesting as many deer as people think. If bow hunting is so easy every weekend warrior would be buying a bow a week before the season and calling Sugar Creek to mount their monster buck the opening weekend. It just isn't happening.

I have never shot a Mulie but I would limit my season in order to insure that future generations could. I think Hal has a good point, maybe we should all have draws and get a tag for one animal, per season. you get drawn for moose that NO whities or elk for you.

I'm not sure what the answers are but I do see that it seems SRD is clueless. It must fall upon hunters to self manage what we have or we won't have anything at all.

H380 · #**251** 10-14-2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

So were all clear, this draw change has nothing to do with conserving mule deer populations. I just spent 4 days looking for a good buck on the Milk River ridge. The new oil wells everywhere in prime habitat was stunning! We can normally find 4 or 5 170" plus bucks but this time not one! Rifle hunters apparently took 70 bucks last season off the Ridge. TJ's recent article about management being solely placed on hunters was smack on. Mule deer numbers are drowning not because of bow hunters, but because of habitat loss. Getting rid of the 10 bow kills in WMU 108 per year will do very little to help out these deer. After seeing how much more involved the U.S is in wildlife management while hunting there the past 5 years, it's opened my eyes as to how toothless our system is. Big money runs this Province and after 40 years of it's decline its discouraging. Ok, I feel better now. Turnout gear on, flame away!

Finally !!!! some one that doesn't place all the blame on bowhunters .Yes a few are successful ,. Yes , there is alot of oil well activity , especially here lately .. And finally 7 x's more muley bucks were kiled with a rifle than with a bow . And the rifle hunters had only 4 days a week for 4 weeks to do it .. Maybe we should cut back on some of the rifle season . Those darn rifle guys are too successful and efficient .. LOL.. Just wondering what the success rate / rifle hunter is compared to that of the bowhunters in that area , bet they aren't even in the same ballpark .

eggo · #**252** 10-14-2012, 09:11 PM

5 years to get a draw in a zone for rifle hunter. Bow hunter gets a tag every year can hunt 40 days a year that's 200 days even a poor to average bow hunter is killing a deer before the average rifle hunters even gets a chance. Not bashing bow hunters just even it out one weapon should not have more opportunities than the other.

The Bit Runner. · #**253** 10-14-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggo

5 years to get a draw in a zone for rifle hunter. Bow hunter gets a tag every year can hunt 40 days a year that's 200 days even a poor to average bow hunter is killing a deer before the average rifle hunters even gets a chance. Not bashing bow hunters just even it out one weapon should not have more opportunities than the other.

You are one funny dude!!!!!

Dan Boone · #**254** 10-14-2012, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggo

5 years to get a draw in a zone for rifle hunter. Bow hunter gets a tag every year can hunt 40 days a year that's 200 days even a poor to average bow hunter is killing a deer before the average rifle hunters even gets a chance. Not bashing bow hunters just even it out one weapon should not have more opportunities than the other.

Very good point!

The Bit Runner. · #**255** 10-14-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

Very good point!

What point is that exactly, You two are a real pair a cards,but each to there own. Nothing stopping either one of you from picking up a bow.

Dan Boone · #**256** 10-14-2012, 09:59 PM

I own 3 bows, a Mathews lx, a pse g-force and a Fred bear recurve from the 60s or 70s.

I have harvested a caribou, 4 moose, countless grouse, ptarmigan and rabbits.

Believe me my bows have been in my hand and will continue to be there.

By has stated, 200+ days in 5 years compared to 30 for most of the population.

Where is the fairness? Explain

Zuludog · #**257** 10-14-2012, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

I own 3 bows, a Mathews lx, a pse g-force and a Fred bear recurve from the 60s or 70s.

I have harvested a caribou, 4 moose, countless grouse, ptarmigan and rabbits.

Believe me my bows have been in my hand and will continue to be there.

By has stated, 200+ days in 5 years compared to 30 for most of the population.

Where is the fairness? Explain

So that's the logic you're going with??
I'm pretty sure every zone isn't a five year wait for rifle hunters, considering there ARE zones with general Mulie tags right now. Besides anyone could be part of the "oh so priveleged" bow hunter group anytime they choose.

elkmakemecrazy · #**258** 10-14-2012, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

I own 3 bows, a Mathews lx, a pse g-force and a Fred bear recurve from the 60s or 70s.

I have harvested a caribou, 4 moose, countless grouse, ptarmigan and rabbits.

Believe me my bows have been in my hand and will continue to be there.

By has stated, 200+ days in 5 years compared to 30 for most of the population.

Where is the fairness? Explain

The fairness is in the fact that every hunter has the opportunity to hunt those 200+ days. If they choose not to use this opportunity so be it but don't take it away from the hunters that do based on fairness or equality. This type of attitude drives me nuts.

If the numbers and data support bowhunting going on a draw then so be it but I agree with some on here lets see some concrete information before we start taking opportunities away.

Lefty-Canuck · #**259** 10-14-2012, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

I own 3 bows, a Mathews lx, a pse g-force and a Fred bear recurve from the 60s or 70s.

I have harvested a caribou, 4 moose, countless grouse, ptarmigan and rabbits.

Believe me my bows have been in my hand and will continue to be there.

By has stated, 200+ days in 5 years compared to 30 for most of the population.

Where is the fairness? Explain

This is just a joke.... but your comments remind me of a joke....

LOL....thats like the guy who is rascist saying....I am not rascist, I eat chinese food all the time

LC

Lefty-Canuck · #**260** 10-14-2012, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkmakemecrazy

The fairness is in the fact that every hunter has the opportunity to hunt those 200+ days. If they choose not to use this opportunity so be it but don't take it away from the hunters that do based on fairness or equality. This type of attitude drives me nuts.

If the numbers and data support bowhunting going on a draw then so be it but I agree with some on here lets see some concrete information before we start taking opportunities away.

X2.....

Some people seem to equate a tag in the pocket like "money in the bank" or a "buck in the truck".....reality is not that way.

Just because you have a tag doesn't mean you are going to fill it....and that more so applies with the bow than the rifle.

LC

#**261** 10-14-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Everyone seems to equate a tag in the pocket like "money in the bank" or a "buck in the truck".....reality is not that way.

Just because you have a tag doesn't mean you are going to fill it....and that more so applies with the bow than the rifle.

LC

Everyone is a lot of people......

Lefty-Canuck · #**262** 10-14-2012, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Everyone is a lot of people......

Yes on that I can agree....everyone is not the correct word....SOME PEOPLE...is better

LC

BuckCuller · #**263** 10-14-2012, 10:31 PM

Hey since you are all arguing about seasons we might as well include crossbows and what about a muzzle loader season in every zone, we can just split the tags with the draw system equal opportunity right.

eggo · #**264** 10-14-2012, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuludog

So that's the logic you're going with??
I'm pretty sure every zone isn't a five year wait for rifle hunters, considering there ARE zones with general Mulie tags right now. Besides anyone could be part of the "oh so priveleged" bow hunter group anytime they choose.

Like I said not bashing bow hunters and yes it does take 4 to 5 years in some zones. Why should I be penalized because I don't bow hunt.

Dan Boone · #**265** 10-14-2012, 10:37 PM

Bowhunters or any hunters that can not see both sides of an argument are the true jokes.
Some of you guys with your whole hearted sense of entitlement is the true joke.

If you truly are as hardcore, bad to the bone bow hunters as you all pretend to be!

Then why would you not be fighting for a bow only season?
So that if you bow hunt for a particular species, then you cant hunt with any other weapon during any other season for that one species?

Maybe your only pretending to be hardcore bow hunters. And rights be known you only use the bow season waiting for boom stick to open.

I know if I was as hardcore into bowhunting as I was a fee years back, I would happily embrace a bow only season like this for 3 reasons.

1, It would eleminate 90 percent of the so called bow hunters in the woods
2, chances are most every animal would be draw free
3, it would be a lifetime before we ever saw bow draws for mule deer.

Just because you choose to hunt mule deer with a bow, would not mean you could not still apply or buy rifle tags for other species.
But you would forfeit your mule deer draw for that year if you stated you will be bowhunting mule deer that fall.

Jeez, the greed of some amazes me!

6mmhunter · #**266** 10-14-2012, 10:43 PM

For everyone who keeps saying you can always start bowhunting. Has it occurred to you that if everyone went out and got a bow the 15% cap would be immediately exceeded and mule deer would be on draw anyway.

Dan Boone · #**267** 10-14-2012, 10:43 PM

Plus you would prob eleminate 100% of the guys throwing arrows at anything that moves. Regardless of distance or circumstance.
Thus eliminating the threads here of lost animals that make all archers look bad.

Dan Boone · #**268** 10-14-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6mmhunter

For everyone who keeps saying you can always start bowhunting. Has it occurred to you that if everyone went out and got a bow the 15% cap would be immediately exceeded and mule deer would be on draw anyway.

Bound to happen with the increasing population and increasing bow popularity.
Too bad alot on here are to blind and entitled to see it.

Lefty-Canuck · #**269** 10-14-2012, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Boone

Bound to happen with the increasing population and increasing bow popularity.
Too bad alot on here are to blind and entitled to see it.

All that is needed to throw that out of whack is a few rifle guys from each WMU go start buying bow permits....then the percentages of "bow hunters" goes up. From what I understand thats where the "numbers" come from...the sale numbers of bow hunting permits.

These "numbers" that decisions are being based off can be manipulated in so many ways its hard to get what the "real picture" is....eliminating "voluntary" surveys is one way to get better numbers by making them mandatory, for everyone.

LC

BuckCuller · #**270** 10-14-2012, 10:53 PM

My self I'm not hardcore anything I'm a bow hunter, a rifle hunter, a crossbow hunter, a muzzle loader hunter and a shot gunner. I personally could have a different weapon in my hands every day of the week depending on seasons, weather and what I feel like shooting that day. I think there is a differnt challenge for every weapon and I love them all. I don't think you should have to be a hard core bow hunter to bow hunt.